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It's a great thing to get used to if you AND your partner have good control. There's not a lot of shin-to-shin contact without shinguards in Thailand. Trainers and folks sparring will kind of use the bottom of their foot to "kick" on the leg, if it's blocked, rather than go shin to shin. But kicking the arms, legs, and sides of the body with control and bare shins is totally fun and much more realistic to what kicks will feel like in a fight that doesn't have pads. You'll often see one pair of shinguards split between 2 people, so your blocking leg has a guard and your kicking leg doesn't, but in a same-stance pair it's the opposite, so their blocking leg also has a guard and their kicking leg doesn't.

Gravel is good. My first trainer, Master K, used gardening gravel in his heavy bags and that worked great. As for shadow, it's awkward and limited and weird for a long time and then it just suddenly isn't anymore. It's like learning a language. At first you can only ask for the bathroom and say you are enjoying your food, over and over again. But gradually you start thinking, understanding, asking questions, etc. Just give it time. If you want to watch some fights and steal a few moves that you can throw in, that's going to be interesting, but it won't be "better" for you than just moving and letting the weapons come out of your own rhythm and flow. Better than coming up with "moves" or "combinations" for variety, is to get better at picturing an opponent and throwing weapons in response to whatever you're visualizing there. That's a much more useful skill.

Finished watching the podcast last night. Seeing Kevin and Sylvie laughing together brings me so much joy. I can't wait to hear Kevin's next wild idea. As a patron, I love seeing how my support can make those ideas a reality. Sylvie, thank you for agreeing to share your insights about your Wai Kru/Ram Muay. I had always wondered what you were doing in your opponents corner and how many times you circled the ring after sealing it. I'm really excited about Fight City. The way you lift other women up, especially Thai women, has always been one of my favourite things about following your journey. #FightCity #1296

There is a loose theory floating out there, to which both Sylvie and I subscribe, which is that the arrival of shin guards has really changed the level of fighting even in Thailand. In the Golden Age, and certainly before, there was no such thing. We reason, and I think Karuhat helped support this if I recall, that the absence of shin guards produce far more control and balance in Thai fighters, across the board. Just something to keep in mind.

Awesome, thanks!

I call him Pi Ken (Kaensak), as his play name is Ken. Arjan is very respectful, but given how he talks on Facebook you'd be the only person ever doing that. Kru is respectful and not too formal. But just ask him how he wants to be called. That's the 100% best way to know. As for people's given names, you might never know them. Play names are what's used almost all the time.

Kevin and I think of you often and you come up in conversation. I didn't realize you had this struggle, but knowing now makes me feel more connected - and in the most positive way possible, more responsible for the decisions I make. I'm glad to know you, even from afar, even in such a sliver.

Relate to this post re getting out of bed so much. Yep, Feeling it ... Bit by bit and acknowledging the hard has helped me too. Enjoy these podcast very much

I much prefer the tear drop bags. I don't like how static the free standing bags are and they are really hard to work uppercuts or elbows on. That's just my opinion though

Am curious about that free standing heavy bag idea too - be interested if ppl have good experiences with them. In terms of the money bracket, it's either that, or those smaller tear drop bags that weigh like 40kilos that could work in my back yard. Not sure which way to go.

Hi all! What are your thoughts on doing partner drills without shin guards? Shin to shin contact sucks, does it keep sucking, or do you get used to it? What's the prevalent opinion on training without shin guards in Thai gyms? Do fighters train without pads prior to competion? Thanks! Gilles

Hi! I’m now getting close to 6 months of training Muay Thai i go consistently 3x a week and don’t miss class! I find myself wondering.... what should I do for shadow boxing - I typically just start throwing jabs and crosses ( Typical I guess) then I think - do a hook or upper cut. Then the more of the same same but I’ll throw in an elbow, a teep, a knee etc. I just do all that over and over til the trainor yells ‘ time’. I don’t feel I’m getting all out of it that I should. are there any ... guidelines to how to choose what strikes to throw for shadow boxing? I feel like I’m just winging it! Does everyone just wing it?? for that reason I don’t ‘ love’ shadow boxing But I can see that it’s important so I need to embrace it and get better!! ——- i bought a free standing heavy bag. (I have no place to hang a heavy bag in my home) ( also I saw many of them in master K’s basement that Sylvie used to train on in her early years... if it worked for her I’ll certainly try it too) I am opting to put TINY GRAVEL or pebbles in it rather than sand or water. Water I can’t risk using Bc of potential to *leak* in my home. And sand I heard can get like ‘ cement’ if moisture gets in it??? My question is - Anyone have thoughts on filling with gravel?? Good idea or am I complicating things and should just use sand. ( on the off chance someone here used tiny gravel or pebbles to fill it, where did you get it ? a landscaping place? Im in the USA ) thx

Hi everyone, I'm very new to Muay Thai. I've been training it 2-3 times per week for a little over 4 months. I'm 42 years old, and I've never trained any martial art or fighting sport before; when I was younger I did things like tennis, running, and cycling and in recent years I've just been doing general fitness stuff. I'm training at a Muay Thai/Boxing/Jiu Jitsu gym that just opened at the beginning of the year. I like the owners of the gym a lot. I signed up for Muay Thai after meeting the coach with whom the gym contracted to teach at an open house the gym hosted. He has a very magnetic personality and his emphasis on the technical aspects of the sport really appealed to me. I probably would not have made it through the first couple of weeks if he hadn't been encouraging and tolerant of my slow pace of learning. I would get really anxious before every class, but that's gradually going away. Unfortunately, the coach recently and suddenly severed his relationship with the gym. I suspect that he may have just been spreading himself too thin, because he has a large family and another coaching gig in another city, but I don't know for sure. The whole thing feels really weird because the suddenness of the separation didn't seem to fit with what I perceived to be the coach's character. The gym is working on finding a replacement coach, and until then has had people of varying skill levels and backgrounds teaching classes. The classes haven't been very focused on the technical aspects of the sport and are more conditioning-oriented. For the moment I'm willing to wait it out until they come up with something more consistent. As I said above, I really like the owners and I think they are trying hard to figure out something to meet their students' needs, but it takes time. At this point I'm feeling that if I want to continue to learn Muay Thai, my motivation is going to have to come from myself and not from a coach, and that the coach-student relationship is one that is often fleeting. I have to keep telling myself that teachers will come and go and I'm just going to have to account for that in my learning process. I guess my question for the group is whether this sort of thing is common, or if anyone else has gone through something like this in their Muay Thai learning experience. If a coach that you like left, how did you deal with that? How did you keep going? If you learn from different people at the same time, how do you keep it all consistent for yourself?

I'm only an hour and 20 minutes into the Muay Thai Bones #8 podcast but I already had thoughts to share. I plan to come back and add more reflections as I watch. Feel free to share your own thoughts. 1. Square-1-ism - Goggins, Shame & Discomfort (4:18-44:51) I struggle with intermittent bouts of depression. I'm climbing out of a valley right now. One of my symptoms is that everything feels difficult and overwhelming. The hardest part of my day is just getting out of bed. I feel a lot of shame about my depression. Like Sylvie's metaphor of the Iron Maiden/inner critic, I turn that shame inward and berate myself. I wonder why simple things are so difficult, why am I still struggling, why aren't I better that this, I don't have any reason to be depressed etc. The image of Goggins struggling to put on his shoes before running everyday really struck a chord with me. I decided to use that imagery when getting out of bed this morning. For me, getting out of bed is hard, so my goal when I woke up this morning was to acknowledge without judgement that it is hard, not wish that it was easier, and then get out of bed. Like everything it's a work in progress. Video on Western Philosophy of Mind and the Inner Critic. Why Do I Hate My Self? | Philosophy Tube I practice mindfulness meditation and one of the themes is grasping and aversion. During the my meditation, I focus on my breath but my mind inevitably wanders. My goal is to simply acknowledge that my mind has wandered and return to the breath. I don't want to follow my thoughts (grasping) or get frustrated that my mind wandered (aversion). I've been inspired to combine that with Goggins' square-1-ism. When I wake up in the morning and getting out of bed is hard, just let it be hard. Don't try to try to push away the feeling of difficulty but also don't grasp onto the difficulty and wallow in it. Sit with the discomfort, without judgement, and then embrace the task of getting out of bed. As part of my treatment for depression I am tracking my moods. It's amazing how quickly and often my mood fluctuates throughout the day. It reminded me of this post from Sylvie: Hills and Valleys – How 10 Minutes Can Make or Break Your Training Day

I guess I have another little question, at what point in life and by whom are play names chosen?

This song was huge back in 2004. Reminds me of Songkran in Bangkok. Great times!

Honestly I prefer it as I feel like it represents my kicks way more accurate and actually forces me to care about the form of my kicks, where as when i use guards I just go for max power and not form. It's all down to personal preference in the end but I recommend doing sparring and drills both ways. Double the practice double the reward right?

Though my experience is different, I empathize with you on this. It was me, rather than my trainer, that have became unavailable. I started Muay Thai during university. At that time, I can arrange my class schedule to allow me to take the day time classes during weekdays, which I liked and learned the most from. When I graduated, I already have secured a job. It was a 9-5 type job with great prospects, but I was devastated that graduating means I won't get to take the class I loved so much. It wasn't a temporary situation. I would work similar jobs with similar schedules for the foreseeable future. It felt like I would never get to take classes with this trainer again. I did basically what you said above and became my own advocate for my training progress. The most effective means was drawing on online resources like Sylvie's and others' videos to learn new material that I could practice when I train by myself at the gym. Since then, I also added training at other gyms later on and meeting with friends to train outside of class. I've been able to improve my skills through these means and even started competing after losing access to this trainer that had motivated me the most. Perhaps incorporating things you can learn from online resources and adding them to solo training can help you progress while the gym find a permanent replacement. All the best!

If you meet someone on the street they would give you their nickname. If you want to adress them formally you use Khun and then their nickname. But if you add them on social media you most likely will get to know their other names. Or if you exchange emails as Emma points out above. A lot of thai people use their first name as facebook name which has the negative consequence that I keep forgetting people's nicknames which is what I generally use when talking to them. Some people use both first name and nickname on facebook which makes everything much easier. Many of them use thai letters (obviously) which makes it extremely difficult if you cannot read and write thai, especially if you want to tag them in a post . At work we have a funny system, non-thais go by their first name (no Mr or Ms) and their emails are surname@domainname. Thai staff we address using their nicknames, even our most senior colleagues and their emails are firstname@domainname. When they are new and introduce themselves they send out an email giving us their full name and then usually an apology for their name being so long and difficult to remember followed by "...but you can call me [nickname]". So I know the first name and surname of all my colleagues but refer to them and address them by their nickname. My younger thai colleagues I am casual with call me Pi. People I deal with for example companies delivering services call me Khun. I always address people more senior with me Khun, when writing an email usually you shorten it as in Dear K. Nickname (or P. ) However, in many cases with people I only deal with via email, I only know their first name and surname and not their nickname if they have not added it to their email signature. In that case, I use their first name. I never ever use their surnames. The few Muslim thais I know go by their Muslim names. I never had a thai trainer refer to themselves as a Kru, it has been other people who use it when referring to them in 3rd person. I usually use their nicknames or whatever they told me their name was when introducing themselves to me. Sometimes their fight name. At my gym we have two headtrainers, I would not think they are Arjans, they are in their early 40s, but even the thai guys refer to them as Arjan so I do too. I think it is a bit of a joke but I have no clue. However, I would not worry about this too much. Just ask how they want to be addressed. Thai people are tolerant people and understand foreigners are different and that their own system can be tricky for us. And if you in the US, I would go by local culture.

Hi Malik! I've only called people by their first names in super formal situations. Usually at work, when they're a customer or a colleague I'm meeting for the first time (or writing an email to). Then, you'd use "khun ____", but pretty much right after that, it's nicknames all the way. It would be really strange for me to address a trainer by his first name. Kind of like how you would never call me by my first name, middle name and surname unless you were some kind of official..or if you were my mum and I was in trouble for something. Sylvie, I laughed at the idea of you calling Karuhat 'Lung Sian', just imagining how he would respond to that!

Thanks a lot Kevin!! I am sorry that I had you explain all that again, but really appreciate it. Thanks

Woot. Fingers crossed the next person is uniquely awesome.

Sorry, just saw this! Yeah, I agree that is the most straightforward response to the circumstances I described. But ultimately I decided that my discomfort was like a weird made-up thing. No one in the gym with fewer n00bs was rude or annoyed or anything. They were all rad, like the trainer (whom I preferred to the alternatives). I just assumed the discomfort kinda randomly. And it seemed like a gym that aligned with my long-term interests more, so I just decided to use the opportunity to become less of a sook.

Thanks for the comments, everyone. It seems like the gym is trying to find a new hire by the time the back to school season starts. They've been bringing in potential trainers to observe and assist with classes over the last week. It seems like progress, so I'm willing to be patient a little longer.

if you had more fun in the one with more new people and more comfortable environment? Sounds like it would be a more enjoyable time training, and more likely to keep going back. But up to you.

In terms of pragmatic thoughts on your sitch (not sure if useful): If it were me, I'd just hit the boxing classes hard and ask the owners if I could come early/stay behind to get some teep/Thai kick reps on the bags. As for your more general question: I only took up MT recently so my experience is hella limited, but I trained at a few gyms simultaneously before I committed to one. I also did PT with a few trainers from the gyms. I found two real gym options during this process. I had the most faith in the skills/style/badassery of the head trainer at one gym, but I felt most comfortable in the classes of another gym (this was because I just felt that gym had more n00bs, and the class had almost equal numbers of guys and galz which made me feel like I fit in a bit better). Ultimately, I had to figure out if it was more important for me to feel good about a trainer VS about the gym environment. (WARNING: At this point things get less and less relevant to your sitch for a little while..) In the end, I decided that my comfort/discomfort with the classes at the first gym was kind of a social anxiety thing (that's not quite what it was but kinda -- sort of like a performance anxiety/general social discomfort mish-mash). I also recognised that my fundamental interest in MT was absolutely about technical mastery and learning as much as possible as fast as possible. So I decided that the best path forward, if I could make it work/not be too avoidant due to my discomfort, would be to go with the gym/trainer who seemed totally world class compared to all the alternatives, and to just kinda force myself to get comfortable with those classes. I'm a few weeks in and still trying to do that last bit! But I think it was the right decision. (Okay, back to the point.) The reason I step this out in mind-numbing detail is just that I think everything, always, should come down to what your goals are and what you know about yourself. If my coach suddenly left his gym, I'd immediately reconsider where I was, and I'd look for the next best guy, because my training relationship with the coach is specifically about their perceived awesomeness, rather than any personal connection, so it kind of follows that I'd move on to the next without pause. If it had turned out that the gym was important to me, I'd definitely not do that. Finally, I think your conclusion about nurturing an intrinsic motivation rather than one based on an external relationship is really sound, and it seems like a good thing to realise early.

There are some other options for Muay Thai in my area. Some close, some not so close. I know the other place where the coach who left teaches, but it's too far out of the way; I think that may have had something to do with why he left my gym. Honestly, I'm not sure if I'd want to train with him again if I had the chance. Part of the reason I'm willing to give the gym some more time to figure things out is that the owners are kind of "family friend" acquaintances. My whole family actually signed up for Muay Thai as a show of support, but I don't think that everyone will be continuing with the current situation. You raise a good point about trying out another discipline while they sort out the Muay Thai situation. I've been thinking about doing that; maybe I should consider it more seriously. From what I understand the boxing and BJJ classes have been very consistent. Thanks for responding! It sounds like this situation isn't all that uncommon. Hopefully they'll sort things out.

Hi Brian. (Like you I started Muay Thai only 5 months ago and train 3x a week without exception) first- I don’t blame you. What a let down and disappointment. Of course Muay Thai is fun but the trainer can make it or break it. A ‘ work out & conditioning ‘ oriented class is just NOT the same as being taught by a charismatic ( you said magnetic personality) trainer who really knows his stuff and loves Muay Thai. I’m wondering if, while you wait to see who the gym hires permanently to replace him, you could research where else the original trainer teaches at as well as other Muay Thai gyms that are within in commuting distance. Is that possible or is it the only Muay Thai place in your area? it sounds like you are understanding of the gym owners situation but the fact is- you are currently NOT receiving what you signed up for and what you paid for. It’s an inferior product in a sense. ( it sounds like). I guess you need to decide how long you are willing to wait until there is a suitable and permanent replacement. ( 2 months? 6 months?) A similar thing happened to my son in tae kwon do he went consistently from around 2nd thru 4th grade- in total for about 2.5 years if my memory is correct. He ( we) were told he was 6 months away from a black belt. Then the trainer everyone loved was abruptly fired. Replacements came but the program wasn’t the same and no progress toward the black belt was ever given. Then the owner sold the business to a new guy. The new guy was great but did things differently and my son basically lost his ‘ ranking ’ ( I don’t know how to word it. He just was not close to earning a black belt anymore with the new owner) he lost interest. He Quit. We lost $. It was a very disappointing thing at the time. ( fast forward he’s big and now entering high school and discovered and loves Krav Maga so he does that. I’m happy for him though I wish he’d do Muay Thai with me ) do you by any chance have an interest in BJJ or boxing classes to tide you over until a Muay Thai teacher is hired? That’s just a thought. I’m just curious if you have other martial arts gyms that have Muay Thai near you? That might be the best option ... even if you ask for your membership to be put on hold until a new MT teacher is hired. Good luck. Don’t give up!

Obvious to you perhaps, but I can assure you that not everyone who has been through traumatic situations is in control of their bodies at all times. For guys just coming out of war zones or people who were abused badly as children, women who have been raped, etc. they still see danger everywhere. It's more about never letting something like that happen to you again and you remain on high alert no matter how safe a situation seems. I've nearly hit several people with elbows simply for walking up behind me when not expecting it. It's not something I have control of, my body moves and reacts on its own. I know what you are saying about over thinking things, but imo simply asking is the respectful thing to do. A yoga teacher will likely announce it at the beginning of class, and then again just before they adjust you. It's not about the act of touching per se, but about the consent to do so. As for a trainer in a gym, I personally would be pretty shocked if a trainer hit a student hard without any warning. Usually you give the student several verbal warnings, then maybe a quick swat or tap but even that is at a speed that is slow enough so they understand what is happening. In Thailand things are a little different due to the language and cultural barriers, but that is also something you accept as you come into that environment. I think a lot of times people just assume guys are alright with it. This might be a personal thing, but I'd rather get hit hard with a pad then have someone place their hands on me to turn my shoulders/hips more. While placing your hands on someone may seem like a "softer" touch, it makes me deeply uncomfortable. Due to some childhood stuff, being hit is normal and being touched/hugged took me about 20 years to get used to. In my experience a lot of the guys who end up at combat sports gyms are products of abuse or guys with PTSD of some sort (whether from childhood or military service). Not all of them obviously, especially as combat sports are becoming more main stream, but you just don't know people's background. Plus it sets a good example for the younger kids (male and female) and teaches them appropriate behavior for their future so they know what is ok or not ok in case their parents aren't teaching them at home.

There are no fights with shinguards in Thailand unless you do those Pro-Am tournaments like the IFMA. Conditioning just comes from kicking a lot. Kick pads, kick the bag, repeat. They will get banged up in fights, but you don't really feel it in the fight. You feel it afterward and you can treat them afterward, they'll get stronger over time - but in a fight you don't feel it. Don't mess with "conditioning tricks" like rubbing sticks or bottles on your shins, that stuff is stupid. Just kick, kick, kick, kick.