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  1. A fellow on Reddit asked about what he called "passive" Thai fighters, by which he meant relaxed, defensive, countering styles. I put together this list of Muay Thai Library sessions which really bring out that very difficult style, as we've been able to document it, including some of the context that I wrote in answer: There are several top Golden Age fighters (and post-Golden Age) who we have documented in the Muay Thai Library project with styles that are similar to those you describe. I'll link them here. These are hour long documentary videos with commentary, of them showing their style. In terms of study it this format is many ways better than watching them fight in old video (though watch their fights too), because it starts from the ground up, and focuses on their particularly loved techniques or tactics: #111 The Karuhat Rosetta Stone 7 - The Secrets of the Matador (83 min) https://www.patreon.com/posts/56179745 #89 Arjan Pipa JockyGym - The Roots of Femeu (77 min) https://www.patreon.com/posts/39307538 #118 Phettho Sitjaopho - Muay Femeu Excellence (70 min) https://www.patreon.com/posts/63701377 #82 Chanchai Sor. Tummarungsri - The King of Teeps (54 min) https://www.patreon.com/posts/35660908 #72 YodPitak Cho. Nateetong 1 - Art of Femeu Interruptions and Balance (73 min) https://www.patreon.com/posts/30870395 #55 Manop Manop Gym 1 - The Art of the Teep (90 min) https://www.patreon.com/posts/24379228 #47 Silapathai Jockygym - Master of Teep Distance (64 min) https://www.patreon.com/posts/21484000 #40 Gen Hongthonglek - Muay Femeu Tactics & Mindset (70min) https://www.patreon.com/posts/19092801 #11 Karuhat Sor. Supawan 2 - Float and Shock (82 min) https://www.patreon.com/posts/karuhat-sor-and-8329146 #7 Karuhat Sor. Supawan 1 - Be Like Sand (62 min) https://www.patreon.com/posts/karuhat-sor-be-7348562 You can see the full Library here, but above are probably the most femeu in the way that you described: https://www.patreon.com/posts/muay-thai-uncut-7058199 Of those above, Karuhat and Silapathai are absolutely the elite, Google their fights. Karuhat in my mind is probably the most skilled stylistic fighter in Thai history. Silapathai is just bonkers smooth. Arjan Pipa, above, isn't a top ex-fighter, but he was a lead trainer at Jocky Gym which produced some of the greatest femeu fighters in history. Fighters like Saenchai, Somrak, Silapathai, Lerdsila and others. He holds the blueprint for much of their styles. Chanchai was a beautiful teeper, and may have had the most revered teep game, second to Samart. Manop was Saenchai's padman for a long time at Yokkao, and is one of the best, most technical teachers. Gen Hongthonglek is a newer fighter and talks a lot about the femeu psychological game. The femeu style is one of the most difficult to learn - for that reason it's the most prized in Thailand historically - because it relies on timing and eyes, and a true sense of relaxation. In our documentation it allows us to dig into the hidden parts of the more passive femeu, what makes it happen. Highlights To Study Other great highlight sources are Muay Thai Scholar's Karuhat switching edit, one of my favorite breakdown edits ever produced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9X6N2DmYbc Here is Muay Thai Scholar's Silapathai edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR13BDVMU7s Here is Muay Thai Scholar's Charnchai edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfMrauD0Pow Here is Muay Thai Scholar's edit on how Silapathai defeated heavy punchers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hshDy7g1xY8 1 Reply Share SaveEditFollow
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  2. Right now I have the opportunity to work clinch everyday albeit with somebody considerably bigger. I have some experience doing standup grappling but always in the context of takedowns for submission grappling. Does anyone have any advice or insight regarding the difference in these two paradigms? I want to improve my ability to clinch and strike while maintaining a safe and beautiful ruup
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  3. Hello, I am new to Muay Thai and this forum as well. I have been training diligently for 9 months. In Oct, I have a block leave period of about 1 week and is thinking to go to BKK for MT training. I particularly like being a pressure fighter, pressure defend block and counters. Would like to develop this style. Any gym or trainer recommendation? I am willing to do PT. Please recommend even if it is outside BKK, I can shortlist for my next trip. And I have almost zero Thai language proficiency. Feel free to share your experience. Appreciate your advice greatly. Thanks
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  4. Muay Khao fighters depend on their knees to do most of the damage. While not all Muay Khao fighters have full control over their middles or elbows, all are knee specialists. A good Muay Khao fighter uses his knees not only to attack but to counter as well. Yodwicha is a perfect example of a high-level Muay Khao fighter who was good at grinding his rivals with his knees. Some of the most entertaining fights happen when Muay Khao fighters are faced by Muay Mat. This is because punchers love to catch knee fighters with their hands down.
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  5. Question for Sylvie! When you made the transition to Southpaw….I’m assuming all of your orthodox combos and strikes had a natural flow to them because that was first for you. ..Im wondering how long it took to get a that natural flow in your Southpaw stance? Also, if you have any tips on the transition other constant practice in southpaw. Either way thank you for reading this. Have an amazing day! - Mike C.
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  6. Stay super playful durring sparring sessions. Work on integrating defence moves that get you inside and in positions where (if you were in a fight) your muay kao style would benefit, and then smile at your partner and reset (thus your muscles are learning without finalizing the action). Another great sparring goal is to find yourself back at center and cutting off partners movements. This helps when you start going too hard.
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  7. I’m a Muay khao fighter and have been sometimes struggling with sparring. As a fighter I heavily rely on power and aggression to win fights. This is usually because I feel it’s what I have to do in order to win against fighters who are more technical or proficient than me. Almost all the fights I have won were because I was more aggressive than my opponent. Sometimes I have trouble translating that to sparring. You have to be careful with straight knees during sparring, take away the power, etc. Sparring is for timing and technique. I’ve never been the most technical fighter and so sometimes sparring can be frustrating. I’ve seen videos of certain aggressive fighters sparring (Youssef Boughanem for example) and their sparring almost looks totally different than how they would normally fight. I would have loved to see footage of Dieselnoi sparring just because I consider him the greatest. There’s so little footage of him unfortunately online and I always wanted to know what his sparring sessions were like. Would love to know if anyone has received advice before on this kind of struggle. Thank you.
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  8. One thing that I find its important to remember is that sparring is all about learning not winning as much as it sucks to feel that your opponent got the better of you. Sounds like you are already good at being aggressive so its worth working on the the things you are worse at during sparring. I find the best thing I can do when sparring is have a goal. I want to work on my Teep/Headmovment/range and make that my primary goal. Don't only do that but it allows you to have something you can focus on even if you are outhit. "Yeah the other person hit me more but I can feel my teep improving" is a good feeling and very worthwhile.
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  9. You may find these sessions in the Library helpful: Session with Rambaa with his take on Karuhat's stance-switching Switching to southpaw with Karuhat
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  10. I am 230lbs and 6'4" and I've been ragdolled by thais who where at most 165 and like 5'9". And I would always be the first to be tired. If you get exhausted it's because you're not relaxing enough and you're not framing enough. When you frame, meaning, you use your bones instead of your muscle to control the space between you and your partner, you should be able to relax. Now, throws and sweep will be very hard against someone with that type of size on you. Thais are never able to sweep or throw me in clinch, which is frustrating to them because Thais LOVE to sweep falangs. But they can crank my neck, bring me to the floor and ragdoll me accross the ring enough to make me cry. I guess you're partner is taller than you, if that's the case. Work on getting very close to him, getting to neck and cranking the shit out of it. Remember to hold the head high, not the neck, basically where the jewish yamulka is. And work on locking this position and the kind of triangle lock that Sylvie shows in some clips, this is hell for a tall guy. Now, if your parnet is a short, stocky, hyper muscular guy, I don't really have any advice.
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  11. Maybe I didn’t communicate this properly. I’m only doing 10 minutes of clinch and I’m totally exhausted. I’m trying to use the principles I’ve seen in the library and on Sylvie’s clinch for beginners seminar on YouTube. The guy I’m clinching with out weighs me by about 75-80 lbs, is it just that weight difference that’s causing such rapid fatigue? I can successfully move him with the collar tie elbow jamming into his chest. I do pretty good winning dominant clinches. But my turns feel very strength based. Same for my sweeps, they aren’t beautiful timing based sweeps, they’re pulling with muscle sweeps. Is there a better way of going about this? I’ve heard drilling clinch is pointless so we’re pretty much going full on and I feel like I am getting better at it but in a fight I know I couldn’t keep this up, I’d get wrecked.
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  12. As with any pattern making, if you become predictable vulnerabilities arise. So look into switching things up. A big one to add is Yodkhunpon's galloping footwork. Here's a public video there is more in the Library: This footwork allows you to cross distance quickly, as with any closing pressure speed is an important factor. You can mix up the march with the gallop. Also, the hop in can also break patterns. Sylvie has that here: And lastly, a really good tool, seriously under-utilized by closing fighters is the teep. If you can mix teeps in in you advance it goes a long way to preventing your opponent from just timing you, and hiding your own rhythm. Mixing in the high-knee march, the hop in, the gallop and the hop in gives you a bunch of different looks. It's just up to you to make your own recipe. And, of course, once again, the speed of your advance is a big deal. Something that might get you swept at half speed might be untouchable at full speed.
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  13. I'm tired everywhere. And I have various old injuries and pains that come and go. My gym was in a bombing incident and my teachers arrested and gym confiscated by the army (I'm in Myanmar you might have heard of the coup here). So I'm training outside in a park. It's uncomfortable training with shoes. Training barefoot is better but the ground and small stones hurt and my feet sometimes bleed so I have to wear shoes. We don't have enough shin guards (coup situation) so sparring, even very light, can be painful. It's rainy season so lots of times it's raining. And plenty mosquitoes. Also people passing by giving unsolicited advice. I don't sleep well, I have nightmares. So the early mornings are tough. And it's uncomfortable. I still train as well as I can. Learning. Embracing adversity. When my morning run feels heavy I do a body scan. Are my toes ok? My feet? My ankles? My shins? My calves? Usually, it's only a small part of my body struggling. So why let that part dictate my general feeling? I love my training. And the fatigue and pain. Endurance training psychology told me: it's not how you feel physically. It's how you feel about how you feel physically. And endure discomfort. You might focus too much on this pain. Or you might need to increase strength and only a coach that meets you in person could give proper advice. But in short. Martial arts... it's hard and heavy and painful and you are almost always tired. But meaningful doesn't equal comfort. Just my 2 cents.
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  14. What do I mean, Cowboy Time, The Age of Hard Men. This isn't something I could ever be an expert in, something I can only glimpse from a far. But sometimes from afar you can see things. What comes to mind is the legend of Suk, The Giant Ghost, who happens to also be the grandfather of Sagat Petchyindee. Now, don't take this as a verbatim piece of history, but only my lasting impression from essays I read over the years. It all began with Suk: above, a contrast of media image to Suk, Chuchai Prakanchai, peak years 1948-1951 There was apparently a movement within Muay Thai, and in Thai magazines that covered the sport in the 1950s, that moved away from the "handsome" matinee idol type of masculinity that had been favored, toward men like Suk. The powerful and transformative Prime Minister Field Marshal Plaek Phibunsongkhram lead a government that reduced the traditional power and imagery of Thai royalty (again, as I have read), and magazines of the era started celebrating powerful, brutal men like Suk - I'm guessing, not exclusively, but now inclusively. I believe he had been imprisoned for murder at some point, and had an aura of a tough, a nakleng. This move in Muay Thai expressed larger political moves to celebrate the common man, the man of the country. There always has been a tension in Muay Thai, between the courtly, beautiful, artistic muay of Bangkok, and the brute, powerful muay of the men of the fields, up country. It has often played out in urban vs rural, Femeu vs Muay Khao, royal vs worker, dichotomies, and even to this day this is the case. It is only to say that with the rise of Suk Muay Thai began to swing toward that Tough Man side of the pendulum, ideologically. if you want to read about the history of Tough Man Muay, this is the essay to read: Rural Male Leadership, Religion and the Environment in Thailand's Mid-south, 1920s-1960s (PDF attached) Rural_Male_Leadership_Religion_and_the_E.pdf This is enough to say that Bangkok Muay Thai likely came under the sway of a swing toward a more common-man, tough-guy, nakleng muay in the 1950s-1960s, a strong thread of it remaining in the 1970-1980s. You see epic fighters of the late 1970s like Wichannoi, thought by many to be the greatest fighter who ever fought, and you see that they are chiseled out of rock. This is Padejsuek, fighting around the time that Dieselnoi was on the rise: This is Gulapkao's photo along side his hero Wichannoi (below), wearing his 1985 Raja belt, a photo Gulapkao treasures on his phone: Into the 1980s, even though there were artful, elite and celebrated fighters in the 1970s, there had never been a "Samart" through these decades of Hard Men. As Dieselnoi ascended at maybe the most dominant fighter of the physical, relentless kind, Samart had come onto the scene as a fighter who fought so relaxed, so fluid, who danced among the Hard Men. It must have been like he was from outer space. Below, Wichannoi Porntawee who fought from the 1960s -1980s, the ultimate Man's man: If you want clues to how hard men like Wichannoi fought, here is a great article on his style: Vicharnnoi Porntawee: Legacy of The Immortal Boxer
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  15. Dont worry about speed man. Keep focus on the technique - the speed comes with fluidity. The kick comes straight up like a knee and the hips turn over. Its a big hip rotation and the arm swing is needed to help bring the leg over and keep balance. Work within your flexibility range too. If youre trying to kick out of your range the tightness will slow the kick down. Focus on bringing your foot back to the ground so that its a big arc rather than just going up and striking. The body will be hesitant to commit to speed if its not sure where the foot is going to end up and leave you off balance. Practice in shadow a lot. Use the bag to try out what you've practiced in shadow and keep that cycle going. And what andy said previously, imagine your leg is just a giant slab of meat, and the rest of your body is the only thing that will tense to propel the leg.
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  16. While I was listening to a MTB podcast an idea came up that I thought was very interesting and that I thought warranted further discussion. Sylvie was talking about ways to implement something into her game and she spoke about how her brother said she should pick 3 things to work at developing during fighting and training. Sylvie and Kevin then said that she just couldn't do this, this wasn't her style. Eventually there was this moment where Kevin mentioned Dieselnoi and how he would train super hard and at the very end when he was tired he would then practice standing tall and smiling (ruup I believe) so he could better ingrain that into his system creating what Kevin called a "deep groove". Of course this got me thinking about records and while I'm not from that era I've seen one, heard one, and to some degree understand how they work lol (just barely though haha). So the idea is generally that the more something is played, or in the case of Muay Thai, the more a technique is practiced the more ingrained it will become thus creating this "deep groove" which you're more likely to fall back to in the times of stress or pressure like in a fight for instance. So I guess I'm just curious as to how aside from repetition alone can we develop these "deep grooves"? Also how do you work on something you're interested in working on in sparring or fighting when you're like Sylvie in that you kind of just forget the 3 things you were going to try/work on? Sorry if this sounds crazy and honestly I don't totally know where I was going with this, it just feels like there are some nuggets of wisdom that could be mined from this particular topic and I'd like a deeper dive into it. So even if you can't answer the questions that I've posed (because they're not the best questions lol) I'd still be curious to hear everyone's feedback regarding this topic and would maybe like to follow you down the rabbit hole with whatever you come up with. Thanks.
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  17. Quite right I stand corrected
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  18. Yeah I think you're right about him not have any mma fights, I think I might have misspoken about him having fights in a earlier reply, so that's my bad. I'm pretty sure he has amateur experience but I'm not totally sure, if you can find out that would be cool, but for now I'll just say he has no competition experience of any kind just for arguments sake. The next bit "his shit sounds like bro science. " Okay fair enough, it sure can, but just because something sounds like bro science doesn't make it so. As it is though I don't have all the answers and neither does any one else. Like I said in a earlier reply though the man's been around this game a long time, and in that time I'm sure he picked up a few things. As for the "classy words and sciencey language", the man's a philosophy major and I'm sure this is just how he talks. Personally I'm pretty dumb but I feel like I can follow along reasonably well. But okay, I can still follow you here, and believe you can have your opinion to dislike him. Just understand that disliking him because how he talks doesn't mean he doesn't have valuable fight advice lol. "beliefs about fighting and training aren't rooted in any real fight experience." Okay fair enough as I've said before I concede the fact he doesn't have any real competition experience. One thing though, I know that the man sparred regularly with GSP during his career. This might be a bit of a stretch but I'm betting that during some of these rounds the sparring ramped up to say 70/80% if not more at times. Now we will probably disagree here but in my opinion sparring GSP regularly during his prime world champ years at 70/80% is probably very similar to low or maybe even mid level pros going 100%, which is a fight. Personally I'd call this fight experience. This is generally why in my opinion dutch style fighters with fewer pro fights can still do well against thais with hundreds of fights, take Jonathan Haggerty for instance with 20 fights or so under his belt he beat Sam A who has more that 400 hundred and been in the game like 30 years. Why because Jon more than likely has 400 really hard spars that are like fights and I think Firas has had the same during his tenure. Like I said though this could be wrong but it's my opinion and I'll continue to have it until I'm proven wrong. In conclusion, you don't have to like this man, and as I've said earlier he's not the end all be all in my opinion but to act like this man has nothing to offer in terms of fight advice is just silly ( "Silly" in Joe Rogan's voice lol). You ever heard the saying you are the five people you surround yourself with, well this man surrounds himself with some pretty high level talent. What about this one, the best fighters don't always make the best coaches and the best coaches aren't always the best fighters. I didn't want this discussion to turn into a defense of Firas Zahabi but whatever, I like him (admittedly bias), and I think he has something to offer the fight world. As always thanks for the input.
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  19. I think this is more a rule of thumb thing than a fact. Learning new things while fatigued might help. When you tired you also expose your weaknesses. Fifth round on pads will tell you more about yourself than first round. I think you can create systems for better learning, but I don't think there are any bulletproof ways that will always work. I don't believe physical movements can be taught by over-intellectualizing them which I see a lot of in this forum. You want fluidity? Stop thinking go dancing.
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  20. One of the things we think about is the idea that when you train something when you are fatigued, you wear a deeper groove than if you trained it over and over again when relaxed and fresh. This is only an intuition, and could be totally wrong (Science!), but the sense is that when you are fatigued it's like heating up a metal that is to be re-worked. All the constituent parts are floating more freely, subject to change. The things you do in fatigue seem to get locked in more, more associated with stuff you'll do when stressed in a fight or in life. Some of these thinking comes from an analogy of annealing, and simulated annealing, for me. But, there is definitely a sense of deeper grooves being hard to change. When you begin creating habits you have to respect that you ALREADY have habits, even if they are just instinctual responses.
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  21. I've never been injured by my trainers, but I've had this shit-just-got-very-real experience of emotional rise and physical amplification to drive/meet it. It's scary. I'm sorry for your experience of it, but I've also learned from the experience and it's not all mistakes and terror. I don't know the culture where you are now, but in Thailand (where you know the culture) talking about it isn't a thing. There was a kind of acknowledgment of it, a few words to make sure that we both understood what happened, and that was that. Being bashed in the head like that is much worse than I've ever experienced, but learning to control emotion - including someone else's emotion - is part of the whole game, unfortunately... and fortunately. I hope your head is okay and that the relationship in the gym space is manageable.
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  22. This is a situation that I think anyone who tries to really comment on is being disingenuous because they weren't there. My gut reaction is 'that's not acceptable from a teacher' but I wasn't there, I didn't see the situation and I'm sure your own memory of it will probably be slightly different from what happened. The only real advice I can give is to think whether or not you agree with the other coach who said 'he gets like this' and decide whether or not you feel comfortable working with that particular coach. I'm sure even though you're emotional about it right now, that you won't care in a few months. I don't know the culture of Myanmar or Lethwei very well, but I'd suggest talking to the coach and finding it out if you and him are cool - if that is something that's acceptable to do within that culture.
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  23. Hey guys im new, I have a technique question. there at alot of different voices on the correct kicking technique, e.g. i saw samart saying.. always straight leg (both legs) and pull the kicking leg bag quicker. and I've seen one with singdam saying to bend the knees slightly (to not over flex the knees??), to put myself on the spot.. ive provided a video of me kicking a bag. i do have alot of other questions but i thought i'd take the plunge . thanks. john. video-1586170597.mp4
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