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Everything posted by Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu
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Most Authentic Muay Thai Gyms
Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu replied to rickyrico's topic in Gym Advice and Experiences
The way I see it there are several overlapping, and sometimes contradictory processes of gym "authenticity": developing young Thai fighters to fight in the festival circuit and eventually the traditional stadia (not Entertainment Muay Thai shows) disseminating, developing Thai techniques and stylistics through a slow-cook "churn" of training: learning through arduous, play, osmosis and imitation maintaining a traditional authority culture, including the legacy of the gym, its heritage gaining prestige through high-profile fighters in the Bangkok stadia gambling scene the gym, the kaimuay, an expression of the local community, a weave of its people, its location a house - sometimes literally a house - of knowledge, kept within a top kru or boss who productively runs the camp, this knowledge is both political craft and technical fighting craft. a collection of entrepreneurial knowledges within the group, betting padmen, who themselves are jostling for social position a house where chance (gambling) meets technique (knowledge) A lot of this runs counter, or is outright alien to a foreigner (not of the community) paying for (commerce, not alliance) technical knowledge (the structure of the house). So gyms that accept foreigners become hybrid spaces, often with parallel (and contradictory) value systems, or social organization. The more prominent the newer value system, the less "authentic" the gym may be...in this particular description, which imagines that there is something "authentic" to be found and experienced. You can get fragments of this: the experience of kids developing and fighting, the techniques in a lineage, the aura of "respect" and "tradition", the churn of a gym, in mixtures, but almost always in combination with the secondary (usual conflictual) value system that provides admission to the gym. This being said, the two value systems, roughly we can call them Tradition and Consumer Capitalism, are always working upon each other in the culture, and uniquely in every gym, mutating each other, so there are no hard lines between the two. In gyms where there are parallel structures, one for Thais and one for Westerners, the two value systems can become more distinct, if you develop eyes for them, but in terms of the Thais themselves, the meaning within each value system still has to be understood in terms of Thai culture, social class and capital (prestige). In otherwords, even in the values of Consumer Capitalism, everything is still being understood by Thais in terms of traditional hierarchies, position and social contest. Western values like the autonomy of the individual (which often inspires a Westerner to become a fighter), the liberty of choice & service purchase, are really not at play; they are merely tolerated as a means of commerce. This is to say, even supposedly "inauthentic gyms" insofar as they are Thai, are still more traditional than most Westerners may imagine, even if they cater strongly to Westerners and Western style training, because Thai social hierarchies and motivations underlie everything. By analogy, a Thai owned restaurant might make hamburgers and steaks for tourists, but its still very Thai in the kitchen and the back of the house. But...hanging with the Western customers, adopting the signatures of that food's culture, participating in its celebration appeal, may very well change what kind of Thainess there is. -
Most Authentic Muay Thai Gyms
Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu replied to rickyrico's topic in Gym Advice and Experiences
Thoughts about authenticity: Just to offer something, gyms change all the time, and factors of "authenticity" can also change. And who you are and what you need/desire is probably more important than even the qualities of the gym at times. Dejrat Gym, Bangkok - Arjan Surat is an absolute legend, nobody like him in the entire sport. Gym in his garage (not uncommon in the day), lighter weight stadium fighters even at the champion level come through his gym still. A very tough old school trainer. Pads will shape you. May not be a full gym. Santi Ubon Gym, Ubon - a real provincial kaimuay, full of local kids and teens, some ranked BKK stadium fighters, you'll get the legit culture of provincial Muay Thai here. there's a MTL on this gym: #149 Provincial Kaimuay Knowledge | Santi Ubon Muay Thai (85 min) watch it here Everyone wants to know what "authentic" Muay Thai training is like in Thailand. We visit and document the kaimuay training style of the Santi gym in Ubon (Isaan), the traditional, local community style of training that is core to Thailand's historical style of fighting. Learn the energy of padwork, sparring and clinch, how fighters are shaped from the ground up. Training like there is nowhere else in the world. Sitjaopho Gym, Hua Hin - a very interesting hybrid gym completely organized around Westerners who love technique. Loads of teaching, loads of training, Kru F a great communicator and as nice as you'll find in Thailand. They have a system of teaching that is connected to kaimuay principles in a very devoted way...but its pretty much for Westerners. Some long term Westerners there are also very helpful and knowledgeable, and in fact may be really key to how the whole gym stays in that sweetspot, and gyms can be very affected by who is training. You train here you will learn. Nungubon Gym, Ubon - great legend of the Golden Age, his son a strong stadium fighter now, which really is good to have in a gym. Out of the way so the Westerners who come to this gym have trekked to get there. The gym has real sincerity, Nungubon is wonderful and Old School. Did not see training, but it seemed like maybe not a full gym. That can be good and can be bad, depends on your needs. Samart's Gym, Bangkok - Gyms in the 2010s started informally breaking themselves into two kinds of gyms, which operated side-by-side. There was "Thai gym" (which trains Thais for the stadia in a traditional way), and the Western gym (which trains Westerners, in parallel to the Thais). Often Westerners can't even tell that there are two different gyms operating side-by-side (that's a little how it felt). At Samart's you get to be trained by legends like Kongtoranee and Karuhat, and there are top Thai low-weight stadium champion level fighters like Chalamchon (photo shoot here) developing. The experience is unique because of just how many Golden Age legends are around, including Samart of course, but also Somrak, Dieselnoi will come through, and many others. So it has a mix of authenticities, some of them absolutely unique. Samingnoom Gym Buriram - a great legend of the Golden Age, adept in both boxing and Muay Thai, history of teaching abroad in places like New Zealand and Finland, built his own ring beside his small house which he also built by hand. These little gyms have the heartbeat of traditional Muay Thai. He trains local kids and adventuresome foreigners. Very barebones authentic Muay Thai. Kem Muay Thai Gym, Khao Yai - Kem a great fighter of the 2000s runs a trad camp in maybe the most beautiful location in Thailand, high up in the Khao Yai mountains, overlooking a valley. The training is kaimuay style, mixed in with Western style drilling that Kem feels builds proper principles. Kem is very, very sound in terms of the deeper principles of Muay Thai, not only its beautiful strikes, but its balance and footwork. Most of the gym will be Westerners, but they've come a long way so they are committed. His wife Mo is wonderful, and speaks English, so even though it feels very Thai, she can help out with any issues. Everyone eats together, traditional style, high up above the camp. One of the great privates in Thailand. -
Most Authentic Muay Thai Gyms
Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu replied to rickyrico's topic in Gym Advice and Experiences
I have a little more time, let me offer a more complete response. Some of the difficulty in pursuing "authenticity" in Thai gyms is that non-Thai can tend to have pretty romantic visions of what an authentic gym is like. Or, at the very least incomplete pictures. And, there are versions of imagined authenticity. A great deal of Thailand's Muay Thai of the past came out of the kaimuay (camp) teaching or development method, but there were very different kinds of kaimuay, in some way depending on how close you are to Bangkok's National Stadia, or large city centers where there were scenes of weight class fighting, and thus more money put into the sport. In the outer provinces kaimuay could be just a collection of local boys, in Bangkok a gym that had bought up the contracts of successful provincial fighters, combined with other training/trainer interests. But in these settings there was very little one-on-one instruction, as far as we can tell. Instead, fighters were basically workers, laborers, much as ranch-hands were laborers in the Cattle Ranching of the American West. Fighters were very low status, socially, pad men also usually low status, and the development of fighters was a process, come from mixing all the fighters together, in the work of the kaimuay. There's really no Master & Student dynamic going on, as for instance in Asian Martial Arts, or even like coach-centric Western Boxing traditions. It was largely the churn. Fighters would fall out, or they would rise. There were likely exceptions and unique dynamics in gyms, but this was the "authentic" profile of what was happening. So, if you wanted to be part of a kaimuay, as it was, you would just be in the churn. You wouldn't be getting special instruction. You'd be learning by imitation and repetition, and through lots of sparring and clinch. You would have no authority as a customer (in this fantasy), you wouldn't be allowed to leave the camp and go to another gym if things weren't working out (this problem STILL happens for Westerners in Thailand, believe it or not, because Muay Thai gym are very political). You'd be in a state more or less like indentured work. That kaimuay, as it was, largely doesn't exist anymore. Which is to say Thai camps have vestigial aspects of the kaimuay, and some still train with a focus on the churn (which is the true way), but this is very far from going to a camp and taking private lessons, as a paying customer. Now lots of Muay Thai gyms offer privates, and also have adapted training to Western expectations, involving more correction and attention, and some of those still try to maintain something of the kaimuay ethic. But, we are already outside of "authentic" as it historically was. So when Westerners really long for the authentic experience, they are often caught between kinds of gyms, gyms that maintain SOME dimensions of authenticity (just some of that: train in a kaimuay way, focus on Thai techniques and principles, produce Thai stadium fighters themselves, carry a culture of traditional respect and power), but none of them will have all of that (at least as I've seen). Worse, many (even with some authentic qualities, will have started training in more Western ways, holding for combos, focused on Entertainment Muay Thai (which is basically Muay Thai made for tourists and tourism). So its very hard to pick out WHICH authentic elements you are going to get. You could go to a "traditional style" gym known for Muay Khao and just end up clinching endlessly with Westerners who also came there because its known for clinch training. You could go where a true legend of the sport like Arjan Surat still works fighters for the stadia, but there may be nobody your size to train against and with. You could go up to a REAL provincial kaimuay like Santi Gym in Ubon, and just train in the churn of fighters reaching for the stadia, but they probably wouldn't be giving privates (?), and you might find the work boring or isolating. You could go to a "technique" gym like Sitjaopho, where you'll (probably) be pressed together with lots of other Westerners very interested in technique, but in a hybrid way that has approximated the kaimuay churn, while offering lots of correction and teaching, but you won't likely be training with Thai fighters. You could go to Sit Thailand in Chiang Mai, which seems to have a small kaimuay structure, organized around developing his son and a few other good Thais, and take privates from him (a very good teacher), but are there people to train with (this changes a lot in gyms)? Or, you could go the Samart's gym, and be trained by legends like Kongtoranee or Karuhat, and be near (mixed in? I don't know) the Thai kaimuay like processes of their handful of stadium fighters, in a kind of hybrid space? These are just very broad pictures (every gym changes, we don't really spend time in gyms much). Every gym is going to be missing something, probably a lot of things. This is the fundamental problem for Westerners. Muay Thai has more and more become FOR the Westerner. In fact they've now invented a new version of Muay Thai which is FOR the Westerner, and its becoming dominant. But, if Muay Thai wasn't turning its face to the Westerner there would be little room for the Westerner in traditional spaces...because traditional spaces are not only hierarchical (not commercial for customers), they were also businesses in the way that Cattle Ranches were businesses. You wouldn't come from another country and go to a ranch in 1950 in Texas to "learn how to be a cowboy". Part of the problem is that Muay Thai itself, in its authentic strain, is dying, so you can only capture pieces of it, fragments, at best chunks. I'm not an expert in this, only someone with my own experience, but this perspective comes from documenting the Golden Age of the sport, getting to know the great teachers of the art and sport as they are now, but also continually hunting for the kaimuay qualities of "authenticity" for Sylvie herself, as she trains and fights. It's very difficult to find. -
Most Authentic Muay Thai Gyms
Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu replied to rickyrico's topic in Gym Advice and Experiences
I understand your pursuit of authenticity, but this would not happen in an "authentic" kaimuay gym. Private lessons are kind of a Western thing. Probably the best option would be Nungubon's gym in Isaan, or Kem's Gym below Khorat, which both have kaimuay-type characteristics, but you could still take lots of privates (which are usually a good thing to do). -
As a follow up to my Deep Black photos of Takrowlek and Arjan Surat, his embrace of the style made me want to give him something meaningful for his small gym and home in Bangkok, so I sent prints of each, as well as of his brother Chatchanoi. Arjan Surat was his Kru during the Golden Age when he and his brother were fighters.
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The Arcane Season 2 Jackpot Arm and Probabilistic Fighting The following may be counterintuitional, because we often imagine fighters in terms of what they are doing, what they are actively controlling, and don't think about them largely being in nebulous, undetermined states, but the truth is that fights are largely on the edge of the chaotic and unpredictability, and while we can characterize most fighting approaches to bringing as much (favorable) predictability as possible, in the higher levels of fighting it is actually the way that fighters engage with unpredictability, and ride it like a wave. In any one engagement only 2 or 3 dimensions of fighting may be on a fighter's mind, their direct awareness, and how these dimensions arise or express themselves also will not be fully in the fighter's control. There is a degree of dice rolling. Part of this randomness is addressed through building deep principles within a style, so that unconsciously dimensions of fighting will loosely take care of themselves (solids of footwork, defensive wholeness, ways of moving), but on another register, the mental part of actually fighting the fight involves how you swim through and navigate the disorder of fighting itself, the variable ways things will present themselves, the limited number of things you can actually choose to exert as dimensions of fighting coming to and passing out of the forefront of your mind in a probabilistic space. Watching the beautifully animated fight scene in season 2, ep 2 where Jinx gives Sevika a new arm, a jackpot arm, which expresses in tech Jinx's own harnessing of randomness, a design of her own creation, makes me think about something I've learned from watching the fights of legends, and Sylvie studying and documenting them. The way that they deal with randomness. The above are screen caps of Sevika being told to pull the lever, and spin the arm's jackpot combination of powers and effects, most of the scene animated in a Spiderverse style can be seen below. It gives me to think about these qualities in Golden Age yodmuay, and their relationship to randomness and disorder. We know the phrase "lucky shot", which describes a somewhat unskilled, somewhat even unplanned, overly successful strike. This is a relationship to disorder that I'm not describing. And, with the advancing popularity of the trading of memorized combos over and over, waiting for one to land is also not what I'm discussing. The jackpot arm in Arcane combines particular effects in changing relationships. In the same way the elevated fighter is fighting with a changing combination of effects, over which she or he does not have full control. Techniques of manipulating space and timing, physical techniques of well thrown strikes, tempo controls, spacing. These are all in a yodmuay combining and recombining as the fight goes on. If you watch closely, yodmuay like Karuhat or Samart (especially in fights they lose, where it becomes more apparent) are constantly finding combinations of principles & execution that aren't lining up perfectly, and so as fighters are constantly only partially effective (Samart vs Wangchannoi is a good one for this, as is his fight vs Dieselnoi...you can see the recombination trying to find a solution in real time). The play with disorder and randomness is not only dealing with the fact that you are not going to be executing everything ideally. Timing, tempo (music), weapon choice, technical execution, defense, positioning (axes), distance (proximity), intensity (power), narrative, are all spinning, and at any particular engagement will line up in an unexpected way (like the jackpot arm). But you keep fighting within your style, applying its principles, and hiding any ill-affects (this is a very important yodmuay skill in Thailand's Muay Thai as well), over time as a good fighter effectiveness will prevail. You don't actually know how or why. It's like the arm, you keep spinning the slots. You aren't comboing over and over, waiting for your opponent to slip and become exposed to a rudimentary shape, its more complex than that. You are applying principles of control, in combination, along with well formed strikes, under the conditions that you cannot fully control how they combine, or how your opponent will be dealing with them. And then, in a round, or in a fight, you may suddenly break through. And when you do it looks like you have been in control most or much of the time. You haven't, but this is the illusion of the yodmuay. And its part of the narrative dimension of Thailand's Muay Thai. A lot of combo Muay Thai is a much more limited game. Timing is rudimentary, there is a lot of biting down, choosing when to "Go!". Distance is usually just in or out of the pocket (commonly defending oneself with space). Strike selection isn't as variable, as alive and perceptual, as strikes are grouped in pre-set bunches. In wider selection fighting a fighter is constantly making decisions along a multitude of aspects. In a single attack perhaps only three (like the arm) come to the fore, and the slots spin. A strike may be well formed, moderately timed, but the distance is wrong. You may have chosen the right strike, but you weren't positioned ideally, and its intensity was down. You may be throwing with power, but in the tempo you're at it isn't effective, even though it was well-formed (executed well). Your positioning may be great, and your technique is on-point, but it was the wrong strike. And then, at a certain point 3 factors come together, and they have great effect. One is using the probablistic nature of fighting, and thinking along these proposed 7 axes or so, rolling through features of an attack, only some of which you can control. The animation brings out this idea some, in part because Jinx is forcing Sevika to fight in Jinx's style, through her tech. Chaotically, to her music. There is something to this in terms of Thai styles and even weapon choices. Thai Techniques have families of variables that surround them, if you use them properly, within their music. You can't just cut out a technique like a body part from a corpse, and Frankenstein it...I mean you can, but you won't be capturing the full family of its effectiveness. When you come to Thai krus in Thailand in a certain regard you are adopting some of their tech, their style. Things they are teaching you involve a collection of elements that allow you to surf the unpredictability of the fight space. They are saying: Be a little like me (like in Let Me In). This is how to get the most out of great fighters and krus you train with in Thailand, learn to be probabilistically a little like them. You can see an edited video of the Arcane fight scene here, unfortunately Twitter cuts a minute out of the scene, so you'll have to watch the show to get the fuller meaning of the arm delivery and the discovery of how it works, etc: See the Scene here
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Watching a great young femeu timing kicker being turned into a Muay Maat slugger. Boxing is built from the center out, and in the footwork of angles. It's about the control of space. Not from combos on the pads. Entertainment Muay Thai is impacting even stadium Muay Thai, in the way that Thais even think about what punches are, and what they mean.
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Thai Drag For a long time Sylvie and I have just privately referred to some Western fighters in Thailand as doing "Thai Drag", which are these hyper stylized relaxations or over-exaggerated stylistics that indicate for them "Thai Style" when fighting in Thailand. This is difficult, in the sense that these fighters really do value and respect Thai style, and the values that drive that style and make it effective....and they are on the opposite end of the spectrum of people who come to wail it out in aggro-styles of Western combo fighting...though, some Thai Drag is kind of combo heavy, as these fighters often are "all about technique" and are very focused on precise exemplifications of "proper" technique, something they then then practice and drill in (non-Thai-style) combinations. Not relaxed at all: read my Precision – A Basic Motivation Mistake in Some Western Training Seeing another Thai Drag example just now, it calls to mind the difficulties of Westerners (from another culture) have in respectfully and accurately taking on the fighting style/s of Thailand...but there is a dimension of this which is kind of Drag Queenish (a supporter of trans- and drag- sexualities, so not saying this in a demeaning way) Below Dekkers in an interesting short convo talked about Western fighters at the time trying to fight like a Thai. "You're not a Thai, so don't fight like them, they are much better than you." he says: I don't think Dekkers is talking about Thai Drag, at this point, which involves a sort of emotive, and physical signaturism, but he is bringing up the point of trying to adopt a foreign style. I'm not really a fan of what Dekkers brought to the sport, in terms of how much he probably spearheaded its eventual distortion into today's Entertainment Muay Thai, but for those seeking the "true" heart of Muay Thai, in both its ethos and its effectiveness, this question of Drag is an interesting one. I think also of Skarbowsky's style, which is not pretty at all, but is quite relaxed and slowly pressuring. He lacks almost all visual signatures of "relaxation" as a stylistics, he isn't imitating relaxation...but he is very relaxed. He also isn't really bringing a Westernized Kickboxing to the ring either. He seems to have found his own, personal stylistic path within the deeper ethos of the art. He trained at the famed Jocky Gym, one of the most femeu gyms in Thai history, with fighters like Somrak in the fold at the time, but he isn't imitating a "femeu" style. I'm not providing Skarbowsky as an ideal type or style, but he does create a contrast with Dekker's answer to Thailand's Muay Thai, without passing into drag. Andy Thomson, legendary farang trainer of Lanna in Chiang Mai who trained many, many farang over the years, used to say that everyone has their own Muay Thai, there are thousands of Muay Thai. This isn't a criticism of Western fighters who fight in what might be seen as a kind of Thai Drag, every fighter is sincere in developing their style, but this is rather to share our own thoughts about Western ethos and Thai sensibilities as expressed in style; we realize "technique" loving styles or imitations often are affectively posted at the opposite end of the very aggro- handed, volume combo-fighting that Westerners can also bring the Thailand (an end of the spectrum we also recoil from), but also see that the "answer" to learning Thai style and effectiveness, in that there may be one, is found somewhere between the two extremes. There is a sense in which the ultimate principle in Thailand's Muay Thai may be tammachat, naturalness, which is kind of unforced aspect of movement. How you walk down the street is tammachat for you. Westerners can be caught very much in the beautiful of Thai striking, and credit much of that beauty to the physical lines it creates, almost bio-mechanically, but the true inner secret of that beauty is in their tammachat quality. In some sense if you approximate Thai techniques or stylistics without tammachat, you are missing the whole thing. You are doing "drag" in a way. This may mean that the tammachat version of Thailand's Muay Thai, for non-Thais not raised in the culture, or begun from a young age in the kaimuay, looks and is different than it would be for Thais who have been. There is a tammachat version, but its won't be indistinguishable. That's one reason why I find the Skarbowsky version kind of interesting.
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Edit in: We asked Arjan Surat about this and he says what the article below describes never happened. This would suggest that this article was a public pressure article by SongChai. Either Samart chose not to go, or Sityodtong stopped it, or both. Kept the discussion of it though, instead of deleting because its still an interesting event in the politics of Samart's comeback to Muay Thai. Interesting detail found by Sylvie today. SongChai says that he's sending Samart over to Arjan Surat to train him up, talking about a warm up fight in November, and then a Lumpinee fight on the King's Birthday in December. from Muay Siam, October, 1987 (fights that aren't recorded as happening). In three months Samart would make his comeback to Muay Thai, fighting Panomtuanlek. machine translate the 2nd page: Smart lost his WBC World Boxing Title to Jeff Fenech in May of 1987, and here he's seen as undergoing thorough health evaluation, apparently to begin serious training. Samart is famous for not training hard at this point in his career, so its notable that he's being sent to Arjan Surat, with a house being rented nearby. Arjan Surat was renown as the boxing trainer of World Champion Payao Poontarat, but even more so for being one of the toughest trainers in Thailand. They seem to be basically moving Samart out of the Sityodtong gym, at least for a stretch, to keep his mind of training and toughen him up. Also, the emphasis on the full medical examination, could this mean that the story that the deep weight cut for the Fenech fight (which was claimed to have weakened Samart) created the impression of possible damage? Thais do believe that strong weight cuts (with Samart's admission of the use of diuretics because he was having such a hard time with it) can permanently affect your health, Dieselnoi believes this of his cut vs Samart. The medical evaluation could be in answer to those concerns. If the machine translate is right, SongChai is talking about Samart becoming World Champion again (which could be translated as "champion of a 2nd era), establishing a budget and lining up two fights (he would end up becoming the 1988 FOTY he never fought for the Lumpinee title in the coming year), I'm not sure what that phrasing means, because he would end up re-starting his Muay Thai career in January. It also seems quite stark that Thailand's most famous promoter, SongChai, seems to be taking Thailand's most famous fighter, Samart, out of one of its most famous gyms, Sityodtong, for this comeback. This doesn't seem like a politically neutral act, unless Derjat and and Sityodtong had a working relationship of sharing training, like many non-Bangkok gyms do with Bangkok gyms. (Wangchannoi, I believe told us that when he was younger he used to spar with Samart at Muangsurin gym, if I recall. Which would mean that in Samart's comeback he fought at least 3 fights vs former sparring partners.) This political dimension makes me wonder if Samart even ended up going to Dejrat gym, and if this article was a public pressure article. The two announced fights in it were never recorded as happening. The well-known Panomtuanlek fight: My portrait of Arjan Surat just last week:
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*as a mod I've edited your title to be more informative to readers as to what it's about, its always good to present the topic substance in the title Both gyms are popular with students looking for "technique" and correction. Unless you find someone who has recently been to both (in the last year) and has your overall needs, it will be very hard to be able to gauge was it better for you. We've been to both, but a while ago. Sitjaopho was kind of remarkable in that it does provide a kind of authentic, but still technical environment (partly because all the farang there are themselves very into technique, so it creates a culture) but does this all in a very crowded gym. I don't know how they do it, I've never seen it elsewhere in Thailand. Crowded, but high level, creative and technical. Manop's we haven't been to in a while, but we found it a much smaller gym, so you might (???) get a more one-on-one, or looser feel for training, which might be good for you. But I'm just going off of vibes from a few years ago, and what I saw. If you are only training for a month, Sitjaopho might be best in that there is an entire culture of training there, including the long time students, and it will be easier to slip into a "way of life", because everyone's on that page? It takes about a week or 10 days to even acclimate yourself if you've never trained in Thailand before. But, we haven't really seen Manop's gym in a while. Generally, its very hard to take the advice of people online. They just are different kinds of people, see and experience different things, and gyms change very quickly in Thailand. Even 3 months can change a gym if a trainer leaves, or a group of students come or go.
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The Influence of Diego Velázquez' Portrait of Juan de Pareja (1650) I hadn't thought about it while writing this series until now, but I've been surely influenced by Velasquez's incredible painting. In the past I've called it my favorite painting, and I've visited in person more than once, staring at it. Not only does it hold that dark, luminous light, and a red-green fire color palette, the power of the eyes really elevates its accomplishment. I realize now that the painting, from decades ago, has shaped this current experimentation with portraiture, and you can see it in the color edit I did of another frame of Dieselnoi in this shoot, looking to publicly present color for Thai social reasons outlined above. The parallels are unconscious for me, and its been a while since I've thought about this painting, but it always is speaking to me. Side by side you can see the very strong influence. It's kind of remarkable when put together. It isn't just the soulful treatment of the eyes, but also in this case that green to red, the skin tones, and the specular highlights on the face, which also are seen as emphasized in the Deep Black style.
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Japanese Fascism and Kickboxing Reading up on the history of Japan's ethno-Shinto Fascism, to get a better sense of where Japanese Kickboxing grew out of, and what it represented in the Yakuza-ultranationalism that produced it. This should also give some insight into Thailand's Muay Thai and ethno-centrism it might reflect. It is not uncommon even today for Thais to speak of how Muay Thai is in their blood. Recently a kru explained to us his belief that Thai fighters were like fighting chickens, bred in a sense to fight (explaing why farang and Japanese aren't very good). We couldn't very well explain that this has to do with how much embodies Thai culture (and not genetics). This concept of blood and nation runs through Thai mythos, and Thailand itself had a history of Fascism, to which Muay Thai was not immune. The above from the following book on Japanese ultranationalism. Japan's Holy War_ The Ideology of Radical Shinto -- Walter Skya.pdf
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I don't know enough about Japanese politics in the early to mid 20th century to know the accuracy, or even possible political bias in the author/s, but below is a Google translate of an article in Japanese which details the ultra-Nationalist roots of Noguchi gym, and Osamu's ultra-Nationalist boxing father, who had been jailed for an assassination attempt. The family had moved to the recently Japanese-captured Shanghai so Osamu's father could run nightclubs for the Ultranationalist and underworld figure Yoshio Kodama. Keep in mind, this is machine translated, and there may be inaccuracies. In terms of the history of Thailand's Muay Thai, and its relationship to Japan's Kickboxing in the 1970s-1980s it does give important socio-political context to the rise of Japanese Kickboxing, and also the concept of its fusion with televised Entertainment. you can find the original article in Japanese here (found through wikipedia footnotes) Also, read the wikipedia on Japanese ultra-Nationalism (Fascism): Shōwa Statism (國家主義, Kokkashugi) is the nationalist ideology associated with the Empire of Japan, particularly during the Shōwa era. It is sometimes also referred to as Emperor-system fascism (天皇制ファシズム, Tennōsei fashizumu),[1][2] Japanese-style fascism (日本型ファシズム, Nihongata fashizumu)[2] or Shōwa nationalism. "...between 1921 and 1936 three serving and two former prime ministers were assassinated" Keep in mind, Thailand has had an extended period of Fascism, beginning with the Phibun dictatorship in 1938. And it has been argued that Thailand's Bangkok Muay Thai also played a role in that ideology during those decades. Imperial Japan's occupation of Thailand during WW2 was an impactful event in the relations between the two cultures, and likely shaped how Japanese Kickboxing was received in the 1970s and 1980s. The translated article: My father was both the "strongest boxer" and a "fervent patriot" Noguchi Osamu's father, Noguchi Susumu, was a star in the early days of Japanese boxing. Born in Nezu in 1907 (Meiji 40), he was an Edokko (Tokyo native) who was strong from an early age, boasted of his fighting prowess, and was a Yokozuna in amateur sumo. As an adult, he worked hard as a stevedore in Yokohama, and was called to take part in "Juken matches," where Japanese and Westerners competed against each other in inter-school competitions held at gambling dens and churches. At the beginning of his career, he belonged to the "Teikoku Boxing Association Kendosha" (now Teiken Boxing Gym), which was founded by Tanabe Munehide (the half-brother of Hankyu Toho Group founder Kobayashi Ichizo, who later became the president of Korakuen Stadium and founded Korakuen Hall, the mecca of boxing). However, when the dojo closed due to lack of funds, he joined the "Dai Nippon Boxing Association," which was founded by the rising power and Kobe boss, Kano Kenji, also known as "Pisu Ken" (nephew of Kano Jigoro of the Kodokan). At first, the cards were arranged as a match between judo and boxing, and a judo-boxing match, but as people grew tired of it, promoter Kenji Kano switched to boxing events. In 1927, in the main event of the first boxing event held at the Kokugikan, Noguchi Susumu defeated an American boxer and became the Japanese welterweight champion. Nicknamed "Lion," his aggressive fighting style and strength made him popular, and Naoki Prize-winning author Daikichi Terauchi, who watched Noguchi's matches live as a boy, called him " the greatest, biggest, and most heroic boxer in Japanese history, who will never be seen again." Although he was a popular boxer who attracted tens of thousands of spectators to baseball stadiums around the country and fought more than 50 matches in total, Noguchi Susumu also had another face. He was Toyama Mitsuru of the Genyosha, the source of the right wing in Japan. He also belonged to the right-wing group Aikokusha, founded by his successor Iwata Ainosuke, and in addition to fighting, he was also involved in political attacks, making him a national patriot = terrorist. An astonishing two-sword style that is unthinkable today. What is particularly noteworthy is that he did not retire from boxing to become a national patriot, but rather performed both roles at the same time. In the midst of the winds of the "Showa Restoration" before the war, not only were there the May 15th Incident and the February 26th Incident, in which military personnel attacked government officials, but there were also frequent outbreaks of terrorism in which right-wing hitmen attacked politicians. In 1930, HamaguchiYuki OsachiThe Prime Minister was shot at Tokyo Station. Hamaguchi survived, but died nine months later from bacteria that had entered the wound. The shooter was Sagoya Tomeo (later Yoshiaki) of the Aikokusha. Sagoya Tomeo was paroled in 1940. After his release, he became the son-in-law of Iwata Ainosuke, and later became a leading figure in the right wing after the war. Noguchi Susumu was also like an older brother to Sagoya Tomeo. In 1931, the residence of the then Minister of Finance, Inoue Junnosuke, was bombed. The main culprit in this case was Osawa Yonekichi, a senior member of the Aikokusha, but Noguchi Osamu was arrested along with Inoue's younger brother, Osawa Busaburo, Akao Satoshi, Kodama Yoshio, and others. At this point, Noguchi Osamu and Kodama Yoshio had met. In 1933, Noguchi Osamu was also involved in the attempted assassination of former Prime Minister and Rikken Minseito President Wakatsuki Reijiro. He was sentenced to five years in prison. When the protagonist, Noguchi Osamu, was born in 1934, his father was in prison. Moreover, during this period of confinement, he reunited with Kodama Yoshio, who would later become "Japan's number one mastermind" and who was in the same cell as him at Fuchu Prison, and they developed a strong friendship. While his father was incarcerated, his mother and son were looked after by the Osawa family of Ueno, who were senior members of Aikokusha. Incidentally, his younger brother Busaburo was involved in boxing and rakugo performances, and the profits were used to fund the Aikokusha. Noguchi Osamu was imprinted with boxing and performing arts performances during his early childhood. After his release from prison, during the Second World War, the family was invited by the Kodama Agency to live in Shanghai. However, his role was not to procure supplies, but to perform performing arts. He established the Noguchi Entertainment Department, which invited singers from Japan such as Dick Mine and Noriko Awaya, as well as the rakugo performer Torazo Hirosawa and a swordplay troupe to military entertainment facilities, and the family became involved in it. The foundation for Noguchi Osamu's involvement in the entertainment industry was already laid in Shanghai during the war. From the beginning, the author skillfully organizes and writes about the rise of boxing before the war, the complicated human relationships in the early entertainment industry, and the motives of the terrorist Susumu Noguchi's crimes. In other words, the essence of entertainment is to repeatedly make hostile and reconcile within the principle of competition, to follow the principles of obligation and humanity, to settle things, and to build a mutually supportive relationship.
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On the other hand, as Rajadamnern stadium's RWS promotion seeks to accommodate itself in ruleset to Japanese fighters, Western fighters, and their audiences, they to their credit also have pushed hard toward preserving the distinctly Thai cultural heritage and meanings of Muay Thai, distinguishing itself from ONE (at Lumpinee) which sought to remove almost all Wai Kru and Ram Muay. ONE was pressured by legal action to change how they treated the traditional pre-dance. RWS on the other hand actually put a mandatory Wai Kru / Ram Muay into the contract, and even imposes a 20% purse penalty if you don't perform one. A fighter will have to actually learn one, if they don't have one. This is quite remarkable, aligning RWS with preservation efforts.
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The Noguchi Family, Kickboxing and Thailand 1962 the Japanese Boxer Kyu Noguchi fights the famed Thai Pone Kingpetch for his world title...but loses (video above) - Osama is 28. 1972 Kyu's brother Osamu Noguchi, after being banned from promoting boxing due to fight fixing, invents Kickboxing, and opens a high-end Muay Thai gym (and cafe) in Bangkok. But he is run out of town by rioters (photo below). - Osamu is 38. 2024 - A Japanese Kickboxer with only one Muay Thai fight on his record attempts to defend his Rajadamnern Muay Thai title, having never fought in Thailand before, under modified rules to help foreign Kickboxing styles, and entertain foreign crowds. Now the Noguchi vision of hi-so, upper class Kickboxing in Bangkok has taken hold of the sport in its Entertainment versions, and in the shifting popularity of the sport among the wealthy in the Capital. In about 60 years the Noguchi family legacy has worked through a strange arc. Osama had not even thought of Kickboxing when his brother lost to Pone Kingpetch, but he had a vision which has proven very far ahead of his time. Speculatively. An interesting detail in Osamu's biography is that he was raised around night clubs in Shanghai run by his father (a former boxer of interesting, ultra-nationalist history), entertained by the legendary singer Dick Mine, who sang in a translated Western and popular style. Could these very early hybrid-culture experiences (up to maybe 12 years of age?) of classy entertainment, along with his father's Nationalism, have shaped his own vision of the sport much latter?
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4 More Deep Black Portraits in the Series These photos, other than that of Chatchai, have more light than the those of Ajran Surat and Takrowlek, I'd like to keep the style very dark, but I'm just exploring now, and those of Dieselnoi, Karuhat and Kongtoranee are very beautiful. I'm not sure of where I'll go with this, if I want consistent lighting characteristics, or a landscape of differences between men. Chatchai Dieselnoi Kongtoranee Karuhat
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