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Lamnammoon Sor Sumalee was an absolute legend from the Golden Era who specialized in knees. He won his first ever fight with a knee KO (He was nicknamed the Vampire of Knees by the press). He has his own gym now, situated in Ubon Ratchathani, one of the four great city of Isaan. It's the region he grew up in. I went to Lamnammoon's gym last year (2018) between end of September and early December. Damn, I don't even know where to start... It was SO great. I love this place to bits. Before I keep going whoever reads this may want to check out Sylvie's take on "Gym recommendations" if they haven't done already. It's always difficult recommending a gym because gyms are not frozen in time and everybody has their own expectations about what they want out of things in their lives. Lamnammoon's gym, like any other gym, go through changes all the time. The training partners I had during my stay there and some of the coaches I was blessed enough to learn from are not currently there anymore. And those people contributed a lot to my progress and happiness. Now, Lamnammoon is Lamnammoon no matter what. His gym has a its own soul that he's slowly been nurturing for years with all his heart which I think has remained the same to this very day. It's an intense, old school, leaning toward Muay Khao (but not exclusively at all. He adapts to the fighter's nature), big on fight kind of gym. If you give your heart to the gym and work hard, you will get the equivalent attention and focus right back to you. If you'd rather train not too hard and just be a chill tourist, you won't get ignored or looked down upon or neglected but you'll get the same kind of nonchalance in return. It's a fair place where you reap what you sow. Unless you're a woman. However to be fair the disparity between genders really is not as great as what you'd expect in a gym that not so long ago still didn't allow any woman in the ring. Clinching put aside I got absolute great training and attention like everybody else. No shady behaviors from anyone either. First day you get there Lamnammoon will probably take you on pads himself to assess where you're at. Then he might advise you to take it lightly the first week, and gradually build up the intensity of your training to match the overall level. Definitely take it light the first week! Don't go all in at the beginning. He told me how he saw SO many Westerners coming to his gym and going crazy berserk the first few days to try and impress everyone, before quickly dying out like a deflating balloon. I don't know whether you wish to fight or not, but if you want to fight you should be serious and consistent and not skip training (unless you're ill). Lamnammoon absolutely loves people with good heart. That means: being humble, training hard all the time, never quitting, not showing fatigue, not complaining about comfort issues. When he was a young fighter Lamnammoon used to sleep on the ring alongside his buddies and his pillow was a pad, and that's it. So, I don't encourage you to complain about being in pain or feeling uncomfortable unless it's really serious, or unless you don't intend to be taken seriously as a fighter. .Accommodations. > Staying at Lamnammoon's home: you can choose the whole package of training/room/food for 28 000 baht per month. You'll be housed at Lamnammoon's own home in one of the several rooms he rents mostly for foreigners. There's aircon in the room. You can also get WiFi. No TV though. And if you have the same room I had: no warm water and an annoying mouse running around and munching on your bananas lol. His home is situated 6km away from the gym. You get fed twice a day (Lunch + diner after each session) with delicious home cooked local dishes (it's absolutely wonderful I kid you not). That's the option I took and I don't regret it one bit even though it's far from cheap. But investing in such a great gym feels awesome, and being around Lamnammoon and his family all the time is too precious for words. Sometimes he takes you out to the restaurant alongside his family. What an honor. His wife and his son are very welcoming and kind. He also has a daughter but I didn't interact with her much. I saw his dad a few times and I was too intimidated to discuss with him much. He had an aura of pure wisdom and kindness about him. Such wonderful people. > Staying at an hotel near the gym: some of my fellow training partners from the West were staying at this hotel very close to the gym. It's 5000 baht a month I think and the quality is pretty decent. The cost of training at Lamnammoon's (without food and lodgings) is 10 000 baht per month. So hotel + training = 15 000 baht. There are restaurants around the hotel and one meal usually cost around 40 baht or something. If you do the math you'll see this option is way cheaper. You'll also be more free to leave the gym whenever you want, whereas if you stay at Lamnammoon's house you've got to leave when the driver leaves (the driver being Lamnammoon or his son or whoever gives us a lift). Unless you have your own vehicle: you can rent a motorbike if you wish. Lamnammoon can take care of this for you. It's not expansive. Sometimes I had to cut short my conditioning/stretching at the end of session cause we were leaving. It's simply out of order to make anyone wait for me. This was a bit of a downer for me sometimes. .Training. After the first week of adaptation that was quite light (yet still painful because I was running on mostly no sleep and I had weird cramps all over my body), this is what my training schedule there looked like: > Morning session (6am to between 9 and 10am): ° Run between 10-14km (mostly 12k) from 5.45am until around 7am, time when you should be arriving at the gym, getting ready for the morning session. The running route goes from Lamnammoon's home to the gym. You can wander off track to make it a long run since the actual distance between the two places is only 6km like I said. You leave your gym bag in Lamnammoon's car and he brings them to you later on in the morning. ° 10min shadowbox ° Many rounds on the bag (I can't give you a number. It's until you get called for padwork. And when you're done with padwork you go back on the bag until you get called for clinch.) ° 3 rounds on pads. If you have a fight coming it's 5 rounds and they're more intense. (The young Thai fighters there get 7 rounds sometimes. I honestly envied them a little. Some days I didn't envy them at all though. Lol.) Depending on the coach you're assigned with, it can go from a slightly boring and chill to real fun and tiring as hell. Lamnammoon is the absolute peak of both great fun and so fucking hard as hell it's like you're climbing Mordor without Sam by your side. ° Around 30min clinch. A bit more when you have a fight (if you're a woman you get less unless you are very insistent I suppose, which I wasn't) When clinching is done it's back on the bags for endless reps. ° Drills/reps on the bag. Sometimes on your own, sometimes supervised by Lamnammoon or Kru Lampang (when it's supervised, you fucking die). The basic instructions for the drills are as follows: 200 hundred speed kicks, 300 hundred knees, 300 teep, 5min of only elbows. This is the bare minimum. After a while my own routine looked like this: 300 hundred speed kicks, 200 hundred knees on the "uppercut wall bag thing", 300-400 hundred knees on the normal bag, 200-400 teep, 5min elbows, and whatever else I felt like adding as extra bonus if I have time left. °Conditioning (abs, pull-ups, push-ups, whatever) + stretching. This part is almost always up to you. There were times when we did it in groups, but mostly not. Then it's around 10am and training is done for the morning. You go eat. Afterwards if you're silly like me you skip sleeping and instead go for a walk into the city center to do errands that aren't necessary or you just chill on your bed watching Netflix. When afternoon session finally comes, you curse yourself hard for not having slept. Lol. > Afternoon session (3.45pm to 7pm): ° Run 6km. I never did more than 6km, never less either. I fucking hated these runs because of the heat, the traffic, the road work, the dust, and the occasional acidic reflux from not having digested my lunch properly yet. ° Around 20min skipping rope. I remember one blissful day when Kru Lampang was talking to another trainer while we were skipping rope and completely forgot about us. They always tell us when to stop skipping and if you're a good student you just don't stop until told to. That day I must've skipped for about 35min haha. Sweet hell. ° Rounds on the bags, same thing as morning. ° 3 rounds of padwork (5 if you have a fight) then back on the bags until called for clinch. ° Around 30min clinch (when I wasn't clinching I just did a mix of shadowboxing and bagwork. Or I worked drills with another partner that wasn't clinching. Or I got extra technical instructions on stuff from available coaches) ° Sweet drills of hell on the bags (same thing as in the morning) ° Conditioning and stretching. Then you either eat at the gym or at Lamnammoon's or wherever and I don't know about anyone else but usually at around 9pm I'm dead on my bed. Except for the first week: it was sleepless nights after sleepless nights. /!\ Some important notes: - All rounds last 5 minutes. - The last 30 seconds of each rounds must be done faster and more intense (the coaches all go leow leow leow at you which means speed speed speed). - After the end of each round you go straight on the floor and do around 20 push-ups, then off you go drink some water. - On Tuesday and Saturday mornings you get Muay Thai sparring instead of padwork. We all get to spar each other in turns. No exclusions here. One round lasts 10min. The whole sparring time usually lasts around 1h or so. If there are a lot of people, they have to make the rounds last only 5min so as to make sure everyone spars everyone. But you don't get one min rests after those 5min, you just switch partner quickly that's all. - On Friday morning it's boxing sparring. Same thing as Muay Thai sparring when it comes to rounds and such. - Sometimes we get a session that's all freestyle and looks like no other. But mostly they're all like what I've described above. - You drink water from a shared bucket filled with ice. The water is super cold. You can bring your own bottle if you'd rather. - There's a stereo blasting Thai music. Mostly country sounding Thai music. Sometimes one of the boy or the foreigner would connect their phone to the speaker and put their own music, for a change. - There are showers and toilets at the gyms (one for women, one for men). You can shower there if you wish. Frogs like these place too. - You can leave your gears at the gym (gloves, shinpads, skip rope, bands). Just make sure you don't leave them lying around it's not polite. - There are dogs at the gym. They run all around you during training. They're adorable and so cute. At first I was annoyed by their clinginess but eventually they grew on me. There are also ants. Those on the other hand are real painful fuckers. You'll see. .The trainers. > Dam: he was a young padholder same age as me (28). He stayed at Lamnammoon's house too so we bonded like friends, which means his padwork never brought about any kind of anxiety to be "worthy of your coach" or something like that in me. His padwork style was enjoyable, even though boring at times, but some days I really liked the fact that it didn't stress me. He was insecure and sometimes asked me afterwards whether his padwork skills are good or not. I had to comfort his insecurities which felt odd. I liked him though. I don't know if he's still there because he didn't enjoy that work so much (it's very tiring and doesn't pay so well) and I don't see him on Lamnammoon's Instagram posts anymore. > Kru Lampang : he's absolutely awesome. Very cheerful and cheeky and so fun to work with. He's very tiring but his padwork style is not linear and while you do suffer a lot you also don't feel the time fly by, cause he's so much fun. That said I will never forget my last rounds of padwork with him before my first fight. It was on a Sunday morning and he made me start the very last round with 50 kicks and 50 knees. It doesn't sound so bad like that but living it was quite something lol. > Kru Rengrad : he's as awesome as Lampang but more bear-like in his aura: at first you may think he's grumpy and not interested in you, but in truth he's such a teddy bear and he's very generous. He's so good with punches. His padwork is awfully tiring because it's relentless. He doesn't stop the rythm and hardly ever stop to correct you. Thank God he never makes you do speed kicks at the beginning or ending of his rounds otherwise... Well, our loss I suppose. > Lamnammoon (aka Kru Yo): the big boss is plain batshit crazy. Padwork with him is like a hyena on crack doing a bunch of summersault on a rollercoaster at full speed without brakes while singing the Pokemon theme song with a chipmunk voice. I love his padwork style so much despite getting anxiety attacks every time I know I'm going to be on pads with him. Pressure to not suck and all that. I didn't experience any other trainers while I was there. When I look at Lamnammoon's Instagram posts nowadays I notice several new heads. Kru Lampang is still there but Dam and Kru Rengrad are not. They might come back or not. God only knows. .Thai Fighters. > Robert, Petch, Bahn, and Top are the main fighters there and they are still very much there and thriving. They've been at the gym for around four years when I got there last year. They're still teenagers and all except Top still go to school. They are so damn skilled and a joy to train with! They're pretty small and light but it doesn't matter. Unless you are truly way way bigger than them, you'll progress a ton by their side. Even if you're a giant you'll progress. I'm very introverted so I didn't get to warm up to them fast enough before it was time to leave. I suppose it's for the best. They see so many people come and go they may not be so enclined to become best pal with you and then having their heart broken because you must leave. That said, they're still welcoming and fun to be around. Just watching them in their home (they live at the gym) is a blessing in itself. > Wut was a new fighter when I arrived and as of right now he's not there anymore. He was 18 I think. I was amazed by him so much. I loved watching him blasting the pads. I have a printed picture of him stuck on my door hahaha. Yeah I'm a fan of his. .Ubon Ratchatani. > The city itself isn't really pretty at first sight - but there are some really beautiful spots if you care to go look deeper around. I'll let you discover them for yourself. It's a big town with big shopping mals like big C and local street markets and you can go to the movies or get massages or go swim at one of the local swimming pools that are almost always empty, etc. If you're like me and you don't care much about night life and distraction from Muay Thai, but still likes to wander around sometimes in huge mals (I don't have those in my own city so they were novelties too and I was fascinated) and still occasionally feel like going to the movies, you'll like it enough. If not, well... You'll get bored quick. But then again you don't go to a gym like Lamnammoon's to be chill and comfy and waste yourself away at night, do you? It sounds almost paradoxical to me. _________ Lamnammoon really values hard work and dedication. When he saw how much I ran and faster than everyone else on most days, he seemed genuinely pleased. The two weeks leading up to my first fight (after almost two months being there), I didn't wait to be told to go up to the gym on Sunday mornings to get extra trainings even though I didn't have to. Yeah the gym is open non stop Monday to Sunday. The Thai boys train every single day, morning and evening. They fight often and they usually get between three days to a whole week off after every fight. I only went to train on two Sunday mornings once I got a fight, otherwise I usually took that day off. But you can definitely train everyday if you feel like it... There were some Sunday mornings when I still did a morning run, for example. Lamnammoon is really kind and funny and helpful. If you ask for help he will definitely help you, and he never forgets about you. But if you need something and you don't ask, he's not going to be a mind reader and check up on you every single second of every single day. He still very much cares about you having a good training and being happy at his gym. A few times throughout my stay he asked me with concern whether I was homesick, and if I was happy at all. Because I'm introverted and very quiet and intimidated by his charisma he thought maybe I wasn't happy. So, if you go there do make sure to let him know how you feel if it's something genuinely positive. He has a big heart in every way. Also, something that my introversion made me miss (until I got some company at his home who were chattier people than me): he's got a lot of stories to tell but you need to ask him questions otherwise he won't tell you anything. Thanks to Broke, Rocky and Jodie for doing what I couldn't do at all which is basically talking to him. Lol. Now the only downside: if you're a woman, you'll get less clinch practice. You won't be prompted to do it by the trainers. The Thai boys might feel awkward clinching with you (not all of them. Wut definitely did not like clinching a woman...). The pre-fight massage you get is less thorough than the boys' for obvious but still frustrating reasons. You may actually get less fights, though I'm not so sure about that last one at all. I got only one fight because of my height, or so I was told. I'm tall for a woman and most Thai women are relatively small which is not an appealing disparity for most gyms with the smallest fighter. I was envious of the Western men at the gym getting fights after fights after fights. Some even complained of having too many ones booked... Tsk. They don't fucking know their damn luck. _________ This answer turned out longer than intended. I probably still left out lots of stuff though. Don't hesitate to ask me more questions if you have any. If you do go there you can contact me anytime on here for any kind of things. Although you may not need me at all because there's a super British guy that lives in Ubon called Mickaël who used to train full-time at Lamnammoon's not long ago and who still goes to the gym occasionally to train or help around or serves as guide for the fresh new farangs. He will definitely help you if you meet him. Or Kru Yo (Lamnammoon) can put you in contact with him if it's needed. I intend on writing a day by day account (diary style) of my whole stay there. I'll post updates in here as I go along in this little project. If you're interested I encourage you to follow the thread. In any case, thank you a lot for reading me. I hope you found this review useful. Good luck on your own journey, fellow travelers! > Anyone interested in going to Lamnammoon's gym should regularly check out his Instagram page to see how his gym is doing and what the training looks like at any given time. He post videos often : https://instagram.com/lamnammoonmuaythai?igshid=11qff920fl1ol > Also a must see is this recent short documentary made by a woman named Angie. It's wonderful:

I was planning on expanding my view and experience on this issue at some point. I didn't insist on it right away because I meant to only do a "quick" review here first. There is definitely a different treatment of women when it comes to clinching in this gym and it's no small thing. Though far from what Sylvie experienced at Lanna. Still, around three years prior to my stay there women were not even allowed in the only ring at Lamnammoon's at all. It's one of the first foreigner (a man) who got to train at Lamnammoon's and who still lives in Ubon nowadays who told me about this. It's changing though which is good but it's kinda slow. When I arrived at the gym I noticed the other (just as recently arrived as me) Westerners who were men were right away told to go into the ring when it was time to clinch but me I was not. After a few days I started asking for clinch and insisting - which is really out of character for me. After a while longer I would just go in the ring at the same time as them and hope for the best lol. I hated having to wait for a clinch partner when we were an odd number in the ring so there were periods when I wouldn't even bother to ask for clinch or to get in the ring and I'd just do other work so as not to waste time or cool down for nothing. The trainers would never seem to wonder why I'm not clinching. If I were a man I'm pretty positive they would either tell me to go in the ring or at least ask me why I'm not clinching. It's a lot of little stuff like this throughout my stay. Plus most of the Thai boys felt awkward clinching with me, I could sense that. Things started to shift a little when my first fight was booked and after everyone started noticing how serious I was in my training. The nearer my fight the more I was actually told to clinch which felt real good. I left the gym a week after that first fight so I can't say for sure if I would have eventually been wholly included in the flow of the gym - with no more feeling subtly left out of clinching. It definitely looked like I was getting there - or maybe I'm being too optimistic too early. Can't say for sure. The Thai boys were warming up to me too and maybe it would have gotten less and less awkward for them to clinch with me and girls in general as time went by. Here again, only speculating. I don't think there ever was a woman fighter staying really long term at that gym since Lamnammoon took over the old Sor Sumalee gym and made it his own. There was a Thai woman fighter there a while ago before my stay, but I don't actually know how long she stayed and whether she struggled with getting the same clinch practice as the men or not. Like Sylvie said in one of her posts, the more women are present in old traditional gym and take up space and set precedent the nearer we're getting into normalizing Nak Muay Ying and women in so-called traditional "male space". One year staying at Lamnammoon and I would've gotten a clearer picture of how open minded they are of letting big changes in. Lamnammoon is still commonly narrow in his thinking. He told me once women fighting is not the same as men fighting and there was no ambiguity that he meant they were lesser than men. But amongst the narrow-minded I sense he's pretty open-minded, if that makes sense. There may be room for big shift in thinking. Or yet again I'm being too hopeful. I'm also still going back and forth in my mind between how much of the holding out from clinch directly comes from the men at the gym and how much it comes from my own anxious mind seeing too much rejection where there is not as much and as a result rejecting myself before they could even get the chance to reject me. Like I'd rather take my own life than having someone take it from me. Which in itself sounds like a nasty effect of the patriarchy... You're conditioned to segregate yourself to save men from having to perform this chore. They can stay sit on the couch slacking while you self sabotage for their sake. I'm getting worked up here all of a sudden. None of what I've mentioned or experienced there is new to you at all of course. It's sad it's still common stuff all over Thailand. It would still be so interesting to see what kind of experience Sylvie would get there for a week or so, being the legendary titan that she is. They would all probably become quite speechless. But yeah not at the expanse of her piece of mind. I only started getting real serious not awkward clinch training when I got to Petchrungruang. Maybe one day Lamnammoon's gym will get to that level of "intense clinch training no matter the gender" but it definitely wasn't there yet when I was there. It's still an incredible gym and I definitely want to go back there for a month or two. I'll be more insisting with clinch this time, if not for me, for women coming after me.

Hello, I have been to Lamnamoons for two brief stints in two years. I really cannot say enough good things, I almost recommend you go to a sub par camp first to really appreciate what you are getting here. If you're asking about the camp, most likely you already know about his accolades. Know that he also produced both homegrown fighters right out of the community in Ubon including his prize pupil TV7 champion Robert Lamnamoon, as well as taken foreigners to higher heights like Sean Kerney. His English is very good and both he and his trainers have experience teaching abroad in places like Singapore and Australia. So this is not just a gym with a marquee name fighter and and more transients than an airport terminal. Lamnmoon built it, and they have come... Like most respectable camps, training is about your usual Thailand camp standard affair (run, rope, bag, pads, clinch till trainers think you've had enough, conditioning x2 a day, 6 days a week). They'll make adjustments for your fitness level but try to come in shape so as to maximize your time there. Lamnamoon's training team consist of himself and his longtime stablemates/buddies he has grown up with. They are very procedural in their approach and will pick up on where you need work and make small adjustments to help you improve. He has a small amount of rooms available at his house if you need accommodation (your morning run will be the 10km jog from his house to the gym), you can also stay at some apartments near the gym, but you'll be missing out on some of the best Thai food prepped by his wife/ the wife of one of the other trainers ( ok ok sometimes if he's busy his assistant trainers will go to their spots and buy food, but it's REALLY GOOD just the same.) If you are looking to just learn I have seen both Thais and study abroad come in for drop ins, if you are looking to fight he has connections for whatever level you are at, even debuting fighters, let him know and obviously show up. Overall Lamnamoon has really made it easy for foreigners to ease into the nitty gritty that is Issan. On a personal note I've never met a team of trainers who gave that much of a ish as they do here. They are not just associates, they are family, you will feel it when you come. The single drawback that I can think of is Ubon is somewhat of suburb, so if you're looking to get plastered and party it up on your downtime you're out of luck, but if you know why people come here, this really isn't a drawback. Any specific questions about logistics or anything I will be happy to answer. I'm a total fanboy of his operation.

Great video! What a lovely guy. It never ceases to amaze me how humble all these legends are.

I'm really interested in how this played out. We're pretty well-rehearsed with these kinds of barriers. If it's a Muay Khao oriented gym expressing one of the great knee fighters of all time, and as a woman you are held out of really the core of Muay Khao fighting, its beating heart, this seems not a small thing. I'm not saying that it can't be overlooked, but...it goes beyond even the actual training time, it goes to how much of the fabric of the gym you can fold yourself into. What is your read on this? Yes, I can see that you can insist on such things, and that you may not have, but insisting on something in traditional contexts doesn't always lead to good results either. I'd love for Sylvie to go and train there for a week or so, but honestly if clinch produces tensions, that is not awesome.

This is really great writing. Thank you for sharing!

Hey! I stayed there at the end of last year for about two months. I wrote about my personnal experience which was nothing short of wonderful in the following thread. Check it out:

Not sure if this is a meme, but I enjoyed making this today. Samart cracks me up.

Hi! No big deal- Just a casual question I’d ask my ‘Muay Thai friends’ if I had them in real life but I don’t ( my gym is new, still small, everyone is so so quiet and serious! Now I’m very serious too and definitely an introvert *BUT* I would like to add just a bit of fun or humor to class while being very serious— but it’s not there at my school so far... oh well ) I was partnered with a 6’2” if not taller man yesterday. Both of us just started Muay Thai 5-6 months ago. (There were only 4 of us in class) I’m 5’2” and under 120lbs. ( female). It was a fun class - kicks was the focus. heres my question: i woke up today with neck pain. I imagine it’s like ‘ whip lash??’ [ I’m definitely fine! It’s just a lot of soreness. I anticipate it being gone in a few days to a week. No big deal] but I’m trying to find out ***what caused it *** and the only thing I can think of is yesterday’s class. We held shields for each other’s kicks. I need to note here that- I have to WORK hard to hold pads for men. I mean I’m definitely fit but I’m small. I strength train but...lm a middle aged small female. ( I’m a little bigger than Sylvie but I imagine not as strong. )So I REALLY make an effort to brace myself and put out ‘ force’ so when the guys land on my pads or shields I’m not a weak, wet noodle providing no resistance.know what I mean? ( none of the guys go hard on me. I have to tell them you can hit a bit harder) So I’m trying to say I have to work hard to give them something *solid* to land on and not get knocked over. Could me doing this be what strained my neck muscles? I’m sure almost all of you have partnered with someone much bigger or stronger before.... My neck muscles definitely hurt and I almost skipped the regular gym today ( I didn’t. I took ibuprofen. It helped. My work out was good!!!) I just am lucky in that I typically wake up every day feeling well physically so to have this significant neck muscle pain ( the back of my neck. Going up and down it. Sore to press on) is not at all typical for me. I’ve done nothing different in life to cause it *except* yesterdays class with shield holding for kicks with a large male. ( note I’m not complaining. It was a lot of fun!) ( i realized that I should have put this in open questions section. Any way to delete this? I can copy and repost it)

Love your review in general. But also especially this

This is so cool. I can't wait til Sylvie and I can go up there and have her put in a few days, and of course film with him for the Library. For anyone interested here is a map of where the gym is, it's pretty out of the way, but maybe in a very good way: Google Map Link Here

I was talking to Sylvie this morning about transitional Muay Thai grappling, and we stumbled back upon the idea of persistence hunting and how it connects to Muay Khao fighting styles of the Golden Age. I wrote a post about how Persistence Hunting (a very old hunting strategy) reflected a different concept of time, and even how it connects up to the ketogenic diet: Muay Thai Aesthetics, Keto, Persistence Hunting and the Shape of Time It's worth posting that link because this is a pretty huge tangent of thought that might be as important as anything in the subject. In "the hunt" in clinch it's as if many are looking for "the kill" (the lock, the trip), but transitional grappling is more about creating persistence. Transitions from one position of dominance to another are designed to take the quarry literally outside of time and reality, until the capture is easy, or at least a whole lot easier.

Thats a meme. And a good one.

I too think it was being banged when holding the shields for his kicks even better news is with 2 naproxen ( aleve in the USA. Overvthe counter) I feel great, much much better. Just had another fun class. It’s kick week and I love kick focused classes. we we doing drills where the shield holder walks towards you and you have to ‘ float’ back ( slide and step back a few times) then kick- very fun!!! thanks for for the comments

Hope its just soreness. Holding pads for bigger people can definitely trigger it. As for "flicky" thing - I think Jeremy means when you kick does your head twist momentarily. This is kind of common as people build the twist. I think you are sore from gettin banged on the pads. Congratulations and hope it goes away soon.

My exact reaction

Hi everyone, So we usually know thai fighters by their nicknames, or fighters names, but I was wondering how they actually call each other when they meet, or train, and sometimes live together. The second part of my question is in regard to the teachers. I believe "Kru" means teacher in thai, and if I remember correctly "Pi" is a form of respect that one puts before the name of the person they are addressing. So how should one call his teacher in thailand, would it be "Kru X", or "Pi X". Also what if the teacher was a fighter. For example I've read online that Karuhat's real name was Suweet. If he was my teacher, should I call him "Kru Karuhat", "Pi Karuhat", "Kru Suweet" or "Pi Suweet"? Lastly just out of curiosity, I was wondering if "Kru Nu" was Sylvie's teacher name, his nickname?...Thanks a lot!!

Usually the parents or grandparents and really early on. Babies have them and keep them. Tons of people called "ouan" (meaning fat) aren't fat anymore, but were as babies.

I call him Pi Ken (Kaensak), as his play name is Ken. Arjan is very respectful, but given how he talks on Facebook you'd be the only person ever doing that. Kru is respectful and not too formal. But just ask him how he wants to be called. That's the 100% best way to know. As for people's given names, you might never know them. Play names are what's used almost all the time.

I guess I have another little question, at what point in life and by whom are play names chosen?

If you meet someone on the street they would give you their nickname. If you want to adress them formally you use Khun and then their nickname. But if you add them on social media you most likely will get to know their other names. Or if you exchange emails as Emma points out above. A lot of thai people use their first name as facebook name which has the negative consequence that I keep forgetting people's nicknames which is what I generally use when talking to them. Some people use both first name and nickname on facebook which makes everything much easier. Many of them use thai letters (obviously) which makes it extremely difficult if you cannot read and write thai, especially if you want to tag them in a post . At work we have a funny system, non-thais go by their first name (no Mr or Ms) and their emails are surname@domainname. Thai staff we address using their nicknames, even our most senior colleagues and their emails are firstname@domainname. When they are new and introduce themselves they send out an email giving us their full name and then usually an apology for their name being so long and difficult to remember followed by "...but you can call me [nickname]". So I know the first name and surname of all my colleagues but refer to them and address them by their nickname. My younger thai colleagues I am casual with call me Pi. People I deal with for example companies delivering services call me Khun. I always address people more senior with me Khun, when writing an email usually you shorten it as in Dear K. Nickname (or P. ) However, in many cases with people I only deal with via email, I only know their first name and surname and not their nickname if they have not added it to their email signature. In that case, I use their first name. I never ever use their surnames. The few Muslim thais I know go by their Muslim names. I never had a thai trainer refer to themselves as a Kru, it has been other people who use it when referring to them in 3rd person. I usually use their nicknames or whatever they told me their name was when introducing themselves to me. Sometimes their fight name. At my gym we have two headtrainers, I would not think they are Arjans, they are in their early 40s, but even the thai guys refer to them as Arjan so I do too. I think it is a bit of a joke but I have no clue. However, I would not worry about this too much. Just ask how they want to be addressed. Thai people are tolerant people and understand foreigners are different and that their own system can be tricky for us. And if you in the US, I would go by local culture.

Hi Malik! I've only called people by their first names in super formal situations. Usually at work, when they're a customer or a colleague I'm meeting for the first time (or writing an email to). Then, you'd use "khun ____", but pretty much right after that, it's nicknames all the way. It would be really strange for me to address a trainer by his first name. Kind of like how you would never call me by my first name, middle name and surname unless you were some kind of official..or if you were my mum and I was in trouble for something. Sylvie, I laughed at the idea of you calling Karuhat 'Lung Sian', just imagining how he would respond to that!

8limbsus.com is Sylvie's blog which she has been blogging on for maybe 10 years? It has over 1,000 articles and it's kind of a general archive of her thoughts and experiences. Sylviestudy.com is a website that was put up specifically to focus on the Sylvie Intensive videos on vimeo, and additional indepth material we might create outside of the Muay Thai Library. The Muay Thai Library is an archive of sessions Sylvie films all over Thailand. We add two sessions a month to the archive and it's available by tiers to patrons. The $10 pledge gives access to the full archive. The Intensive Series on Vimeo is PPV and is focused on videos made in a series. For instance an entire month of training with Karuhat is up there, and a week with Yodkhunpon. The vimeo series allows us to present really indepth documentation, sessions covering multiple days, but because it is focused it also allows us to divert sales directly to the legends, 55% percent going to them. The discount code that can be used by patrons on the Vimeo material for individual purchase I believe can be also used for the subscription, but only for the first month purchase (I believe). I'm happy to answer any questions. There is just a ton of material that we put out and document, and it's on different platforms so It can be confusing.

Most people are called by their nicknames, or "play" name. School kids call their teachers by "Kru" and then the play name. "Real" names are very rarely used. Nobody calls anybody by their real name unless it's a legal document or something like the IFMA where you have to register with your legal name. For fighters, they're called by their fight name by fans and when being referred to as that fighter, but if someone knows them even as an acquaintance it's the play name. So, Dieselnoi will refer to Karuhat in the 3rd person but call him by his play name to his face or if he's talking to me, because I know him personally also. I occasionally call Dieselnoi by his play name, but mostly I use "Ajarn Dieselnoi" as a sign of respect, but Ajarn + his play name works just as well. "Pi" is an older sibling, so it's appropriate if you are semi-familiar or familiar with someone who is your age or older. Pi Nu is "Pi" plus the play name (which in his case is just a shortening of his real name, like how westerners have nicknames that are just shorter versions of given-names, whereas many play names are completely different from given names. Example is Pi Nu's son: real name: Titee, play name: Bank, fight name: Tongchai) Dieselnoi is too much older than me for me to call him "Pi" unless I kind of forget. It's appropriate to call him "Lung", which is like an uncle, but "Arjan" feels more respectful to me. Karuhat is also old enough that I could call him "Lung Sian," but he'd be offended by that, like I was calling him old, so even though the age difference makes that appropriate, I use "Pi" for his ego, hahaha.

I think it really matters if you are talking about taking a few private sessions, or you are just talking about training at a gym. The Thai way does not really involve constant and repeated corrections (that produces stress and lack of flow which is not conductive to fighting), but there are krus that can and will be corrective in a private, as that is what westerners want, and it happens to be how they in particular think. The Krus Sylvie lists are pretty precise. Of all of them I would think that Manop is the most precise. He has a lot of experience training westerners as the head trainer at Yokkao, and now with his own gym it seems that he brought a lot of that precision to his approach. In Sylvie's session with him we were shocked at some of the very tiny details he brought out (timing on when the heel came down for instance, after a kick, made a huge difference). You can watch the full 90 minute session as a patron here: #55 Manop Manop Gym - The Art of the Teep (90 min) watch it here You can see beautiful slow motion of his technically beautiful teep here: You can watch a segment of a session with Chatchai here: #64 Chatchai Sasakul - Elements of Boxing (72 min) watch it here Here is a segment with Burklerk, you can watch his session here: #17 Burklerk PInsinchai - Dynamic Symmetry (82 min) watch it here

Chatchai Sasakul in Bangkok. 100%: Chatchai is all about balance and weight transfer. Everything is the legs and feet, then not breaking the frame with your upper body. But man, the way he can generate power from such simple and minimal (economical) movement is just incredible. It doesn't require translation between the boxing movements and Muay Thai, and he was a very good Muay Thai fighter before he went into boxing, so he's able to bring it all together. Manop in Chiang Mai: this is again a big point about balance. Manop is kind of rangy, but he understands and can articulate small details about footwork and leg/stance for balance and power. His English is pretty good as far as I have seen, but I mostly speak Thai with him so I'm not totally sure how he explains things in English. But he is able to articulate the nuances into words, so I imagine he does so in English as well. Detail-oriented, for sure. Burklerk in Lampang: his technique is Old School, but it's absolutely useful to contemporary Muay Thai as well. He's really good at breaking down the minute differences between what you're doing and what he wants you to do, but it's not verbal. You have to watch and imitate. But he'll totally point out exactly where the difference is, so you don't have to play "guess what's wrong," you just have to pin-point the adjustment and he's very good at helping you see that. His balance is great, he's scary, and his distance is one that literally any sized fighter has an advantage fighting at.

Hey Kevin, thanks! I think this is a good place to ask the following practical questions without the need of creating a new post (I hope I am not mistaken). I am new here so those are big picture questions: - What are briefly the differences in terms of content between: + 8limbsus.com and sylviestudy.com? + the muay thai library on patreon and vimeo? - Also, patrons get discount on single videos on vimeo, but how about a patron that subscribes monthly? I'm sorry I'm no sure how all that works. Thanks again.

In my experience it mostly revolves around how well you know them on a personal level as well as personal preference for them. Usually if you have no relationship with them outside a gym setting Kru is what will be used, though they aren't all comfortable with this title. Pi is more personal. It is used for elders/siblings, and often involves a change in names (almost all Thai's have a "play" name or a short/nickname). For example, my old trainer would go by either Kru Korat or simply Korat with students. This was part of his fighting name. Because I lived with them though, for me it became Pi Sak. To make it even more confusing, his family and very old friends who had known him since childhood referred to him as Pi Joy and his wife uses all three depending what mood she is in lol. Long story short, either Kru or Pi are acceptable, though they may change names depending on which you are using. I'm guessing "Nu" is Kru Nu's play/nickname. His students probably refer to his as Kru Nu but everyone else calls him Pi Nu. I've never met him though, so I'm just making a guess

Thanks so much I am in :)!

Btw well aware this might be a topic for the women's roundtable, but despite several emails I get no access to it. Which also mean I cannot tell whether this has already been discussed or not. I also believe this is a topic men should be able to have access to and learn from as most of the times, men are so blissfully unaware of shit women have to deal with.

I think Rambaa (Baan Rambaa) in Pattaya one of the best gyms for kids, as he has something like 30 kids training at all times. They're pretty small and aged 6-15, with a few late-teen and adult fighters, so matching to the size of your fighters is a good bet but not guaranteed. Because of the sheer number, chances of clinching and sparring are really good. But his structure is pretty strict, in terms of how they train at the gym, and could be a bit intense in a very short visit, but something you'd get accustomed to and work yourself into on a longer visit. My gym, also in Pattaya, Petchrungruang is also good for kids because we have so much experience training young Thai boys from a young age to become stadium fighters and champions. We have a group of 4 that come a bit late, after they've gotten out from school and they train a bit after everyone else. They're about 8 years old and quite small, like 24 kg (52 lbs). We also have some very regular young fighters, 99 lbs is the smallest of those and he's about 15 years old. If you don't get an exact match in size, there's always adjustments to be made in training - my training partners are usually bigger than I am and often the western guys who come to the gym who are less experienced go with our boys who are significantly smaller (like, 20 lbs smaller) and still have a good challenge due to skill and strength of our fighters. The reason I think Petchrungruang is the best gym for kids is that our system, well, Kru Nu's system, is a really good balance of technique, hard work, and also fun. In the afternoons you come, get your shadow and padwork and then it's time for clinching and sparring. You have to submit to the program and it's best if they don't come with their own coach, which usually keeps them peripheral to the process. Or, if the coach is there he's not also coaching them. You just put them in the water, so to speak, with the other fish and let it work. I've seen kids develop crazy fast in this system, even just a week and they're significantly more confident, balanced and improved. They boys at the gym all know each other and are friendly to people coming in and leaving - they totally understand that we're all there to help each other, and they've been helped by those ahead of them, etc.

Very interesting. I got all bent out of shape reading your thoughts yesterday Kevin. I don't like the obvious dig at Sylvie, the bastard. Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I think you laid it all out there everyone. The bottom rope is a sexist tradition, and its a personal choice to go under or over. Going over it, it helps if one takes an imperious (imperialist) tone and possibly have a large loud-mouthed coach behind you. Yeah we need men to confront this stuff sometimes. Ok I am going to lapse into profanity shortly so I will just thank you.