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Not sure what you mean with mentally challenged (I think a more preferred term is intellectual disability, when I worked with issues related to disabilities, we called it 'people living with disabilities' in policy documents and legal texts) but I have a brother with a developmental disability which makes non-verbal communication and social interaction for him difficult. He also has problems with coordination and balance etc. Sports together with other people living with disabilities has been a great blessing for him through which he found friends and even his fiancee. He always calls his teachers by their first name. For him it's hard to get several instructions at once, a more first A then B then C-approach is better. But he can practice one thing for hours and hours and hours without getting bored. My advice. Just be open and friendly and curious and patient.

We were talking to Chatchai Sasakul, a fighter who fought so many of the greats in the Golden Age in Muay Thai, and then came into fame winning the WBC World Championship western boxing belt. He's in the Library here, and we are about to add another session with him. We were asking him why in his fight style back in the day he wasn't doing many of the things that he was advocating now. He said, "back then I didn't know". He looked at us like we were crazy, like "what do you think I've been doing for 20 years since I retired" or "of course I didn't know, I was young". It brought home for me one of the most special things about the Library. We talk about it as if it is preserving the literal techniques of the Golden Age, but it is much more than that. It's preserving those techniques AS they have undergone a period of reflection and refinement. If you talked to an active fighter you may very well get some very noteworthy pointers on how to fight. But if you talk to that fighter 15 or 20 years later you get something very different. You get those elements having passed through a very long stage of reflection. You get to see those elements, very often, taken up as craft. Sometimes, if that fighter has fallen out from the fight game entirely, like maybe someone like Samson Isaan (in the Library here), and who is a taxi driver, this is mostly the craft of recollection, of memory. What he knows and thinks about are all the things that worked for him, and probably some of the things that didn't work for him, things that had success against him. The whole thing goes into a process of memory's slow boil, low and slow, and what you get is a condensed essence of fight knowledge, his style, under refinement. Even if he isn't actively working on improving on or conveying his fighting style, it has been worked on by memory and reflection. It is the art of his style, his knowledge. On the other hand when you have someone like Sagat - you can find him in the Library here - this is someone who has been teaching Muay Thai for probably three decades. Not only is he bringing his fight style, the one he once had, but he has become a craftman about it. What he is teaching is a rarified, purified form of his fighting style, something that has been honed and polished over decades of communication and thought. What he is showing you in the ring today is very different than what he would have showed you 30 years ago. It is enhanced, has been worked on endlessly. Not in the "I've got to be a better teacher" way, but rather that each time you try to convey something you touch it a little, you change it, you add reflection on it. Sagat teaches a great deal of precision and correction on his strikes, as does Chatchai, who also has been teaching for years. Chatchai as a fighter would drift away on his jab. Today he insists, do not do this, this is stupid. I've seen Sagat incorporate things into his teaching that I know he recently has experienced - for instance he has been helping General Tunwakom teach Muay Lertrit lately. These internal elbows are now in his mind, as he teaches movements. Sagat is 60 years old, and his Muay is still evolving. I've watch Karuhat come up with brilliant throws, things he is simply inventing on the spot, feeling his way on, things I've never seen before, because Karuhat when he was a fighter in his gym would always be experimenting, stealing things from others, dreaming up new wrinkles. When we look back in time, through our telescope of the Library it isn't like how starlight is reaching us from far away, how it was years ago. It's instead coming to us with immediacy, having passed through the reflections of these men, as they have become craftsmen, working on the raw materials of their fight days, lifting it to art. Perhaps nobody is more like this than Master K, Sylvie's first instructor back in America. He's 80 years old now, and his Muay Thai is this incredible time capsule of Muay Thai before the Golden Age, the Muay Thai of the late 1960s 1970s. But...it also is filtered and hand sanded by the mind of a Thai man who was no longer in Thailand, reflected on, improved and dreamed up through watching the great boxers of the decades, long ruminations in his own basement kicking the bag until 2 AM, the result of a craft-work of elaboration and self-creation. I think that is what a lot of us miss. These men, all of these men, are producing the work of their mind, as artists, as creators, bringing to life and carrying forward a new thing. It isn't just their techniques, or even their fighting styles. It's the fecundity of the years since they stopped fighting. It is their meditation. What is also kind of incredible is that these ruminations, these craft-works, have been documented and continue to be documented. And that Sylvie has first hand seen them. You can see the full library here.

This is a very cool nutshell which probably speaks to the motivations of each. I know we are talking extremely broadly, there are lots of men who feel insecure about their power, and maybe drawn to Muay Thai for that reason, but it seems that there still, even for them, is a general tide, a fabric in the culture that reflects an experience of powerlessness for women, and powerfulness for men. Sylvie may not be indicative of all women, or even most women, but I remember when she was taking Nihi Sobo's mental training course and one of the first mental exercises was to just unchain your mind and think of the most absurdly satisfying fantasy of what your life could be like. Like, off the charts "dream come true, beyond all dreams", no judgements. And honestly, Sylvie just couldn't access any of those ridiculously blown out visions the guys found so easy to dream up. As a woman - and probably for other reasons too - all these super-visioned, jacked up thoughts were like a different language. Of course thinking in those ways may not be the right or best way to go, but the very fact that they can sometimes be cut off from some women, that it's a mode of thought that is maybe discouraged, really has a discrete impact on female fighting.

In my humble opinion, that you take the time to ask for advice and that you reflect on this task like you've done here, really shows how dedicated you are as a teacher. It makes me really happy. I'm pretty sure it goes well and I'm very curious to hear how it pans out. I have no experience whatsoever in teaching and I would look forward to hearing your perspective on this experience.

Thank you for the advice. I'm very keen to start their lessons. I believe everyone can benefit from training. My biggest concern is how to keep their interest. I'm really stepping into unknown territory for me. I will just take it as comes and make the necessary adjustments to each individual. Their, (I don't what you'd call him), teacher will be participating as well so this should make things go smoother.

Man, you must have some bad experiences. There are a lot of those places the world over, I would imagine. I personally don't have any bad experiences to relate that to. Although I do know one person who fits that bill. He and I don't get along personally precisely because of that. However, that being said his gym has produced some excellent fighters because of the instructors he employs. They are really good at what they do. In defense of of combined classes, unless of course one has a full time premises, you generally only have an hour to get the most out of your students. I personally spend a lot of time with new students, and hold pads for them. I also teach pad holding as part classes as I firmly believe this is an art unto itself. My senior students also don't mind holding pads. All my students are welcome to come and train with me free on a Friday night in my shed. Usually only 2 take up the offer. Some dudes and I would imagine some women would get off on that cult type thingy you mentioned. They must have some sort of deficiency in their personalities though.

The above illustrates what proponents of Self-Organizing Criticality imagine. Since the invention of statistical mathematics our vision of the world has become very Bell Curved in expectation. That is to say, wee "see" in averages. Things that fall far outside of averages are seen as anomalies, and largely are excluded from much consideration. The L Curve of Power Law distribution (shown here as the related Exceedience Probability) is a very different world view, and brings out the connectivity between those out-lying properties, and the overall system. These are the avalanches, the cascades that are rare, are built into the system itself. They aren't exceptions, they are part of the patterns. This is a world view shift if we think about the kinds of productivity, and exceptionalness we want to build in new skills or new traits. The Bell Curve of Averages causes us to see our present averages - let's say of skill level - as essential and relatively "stuck". If a beautiful kick suddenly comes out, it's just an anomaly. Our kick, fundamentally, is an "average". Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, mostly meh. The Sandpile conception of complex systems positions supposed anomalies on a scale. When the entire system cascades, it's just a sandpile having an avalanche of connectivity. We set about making the sandpile more prone to these events, of the quality searched for. graphic from: Bak's Sand Pile: Strategies for a Catastrophic World ($9.99 Kindle)

I have been approached to teach a group of around 10 mentally challenged young adults. I have never taught anyone who is mentally challenged. I would really appreciate any thoughts or considerations on how to conduct the classes. I have been speaking to the person involved in setting this up and the general consensus is they need a strict but vibrant session. The only way I know of to achieve this is to conduct them like a karate class. I have a few reservations with this. These being (1) I don't want to be called Sensei even though I hold that title and rank associated with it, I just don't get the idea. Never have, never will. (2) I hate unnecessary bowing and scraping, I consider myself to be very egalitarian. (3) I hate formality. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of my karate rank, I've just never seen the point in being called a Japanese title when I'm not Japanese and my karate is not a traditional form. I much prefer being called Jeremy or Jezza. I guess it's an Aussie thing. I don't even let my Muay Thai students call me Kru. I'm not Thai, never trained in Thailand, my muay thai is Australian in intention and purpose and I have never pretended otherwise. Just a bit confused as how to approach the strictness thingy. Any help to solve my conundrum, would be most appreciated.

Jeremy, do you teach a kids class? I imagine it would be a lot like teaching pre-teens and even younger. By strict (and Id get them to operationally define that) they might mean structured. So maybe 10 mins (play it by ear) warm up of basic exercises. Then maybe some balance work to help prep them, then 15 mins of stance and basic punching with focus on shifting weight. It might not hurt to find games that they can do that fit the sport. Coach Patrick feom Valor Muay Thai has a great kids program that works for everyone, he might have some suggestions. I know hes posted in the forum before. Kevin might be able to tag him.

All of this. Ive had huge classes and still make sure new students are taken care of as much as the advanced and fighters. Part of my culture is that fighters help with new students 1) to keep my yap dow lol 2) to give the new and younger students a different perspective on what I teach and 3) to keep the fighters humble. Doesnt hurt that it also helps them anchor in the techniques they think they know lol. Ive been guilty of yapping too much, but teaching kids class helps cure that. I try and keep the instruction informative but quick. Ill revisit it often if needed. This is all the structure I was taught and was talking about. How to keep people happy and invested while getting what I want outve it. So far its working.

Attempting to bend the thread back to it's general theme a bit, for those reading across the posts, the concept or critique of patterned training in the west is perhaps, from the position of Self Organized Criticality, one in which the notion of error and correction produces a real ceiling on development. It causes us to view errors as broken pieces of a machine of techniques to be repaired or replaced. I've elsewhere made the connection between patterned fighting, and the more broad commercial requirement that patterns facilitate promulgation. Meme-ishness below. In many ways this isn't really something so much to blame, as to simply recognize as a phenomena. For things of one culture to promulgate in another culture there has to be some sort of grafting of the one onto the other, very often including extreme translation. People are going to experience this as a bastardization, or a distortion. Perhaps, but it is almost an necessary one. In the widest view we just need to recognize it. On a more personal level, when dealing with one's own Muay, and thinking about the patterns within it, this thread is about maybe thinking about one's progress not in terms of Bell Curves, but instead in terms of possible Power Laws, where exceptional leaps are expected as part of the process.

The ruminations of these great men are fascinating. You hit it in one. They have gone from journeymen to craftsmen and all the steps in between. Like everyone, as we age we don't see things or do things the way we did thirty years ago. Everything undergoes evolution.

Thanks,. I'm going to play it out just as you suggested.

In Australia, we're generally not big on formality. Myself in particular really only formal titles for those I respect. I'm gonna go the first name route. It's up to me to engender respect. I don't have any problems engendering respect in others. I think I may have been placing more emphasis on my concerns simply because of the demographic the group falls under. I'm just going to play it cool.

I still have the bruises from sparring with a coach last Friday! It was a two-hour sparring session (obviously most people don’t go and spar for two hours, rather if you attend during those two hours then you can spar) and most people do so in the first hour (the gym closes after this 2hr session. A lot of people don't stay until closing time), however I can’t usually make it until the second-hour, which meant I (little sparring experience, 72kg) ended up doing one round with a guy who’d been there a while (98kg, looked a bit tired but wanted some more practice). We had a good round but had to stop as his leg cramped up...which left me and the coach in the gym. Eight rounds later I was soaked in sweat, bruises growing, and grinning from ear to ear. Great fun and very worthwhile: while the coach didn’t verbally point out weaknesses (he’s Japanese, I’m English, we’re in Japan and he didn’t seem to know how much Japanese I speak), over eight rounds I had them pointed out to me the hard way . This week I attended some non-sparring sessions, talked with those coaches about the weaknesses I’d identified* and we worked on those via pads. It’s going to take a lot more practice, of course, to get rid of the bad habits which kept seeing me hit, but I wouldn’t have had them pointed out to me had I not been sparring with the coach. So, I thoroughly appreciate being able to spar with coaches. * After me throwing a right body kick, he would return it with a right low kick. I wasn’t fast enough resetting and getting my left shin up fast enough, and thus got a very bruised left thigh. Got to work on resetting and checking faster. The other was getting hit with his left hook after I did a right body kick. So this week I worked with my (other) coach on not swinging the right arm down when I kicked, but rather swinging it kind of across their face, to block any punches (I remember Sylvie having a video on this. The coach of the Thai national team taught this if I remember correctly...?).

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It will depend largely on the group but I would advise to just be yourself and follow your own style of teaching. Keep it very basic and fun. You will have to adopt as you go. Some guys will struggle to retain information, just accept it. Teaching in karate style as in lines might help but or at least as a starting point. Keep it enjoyable and keep your sense of humour. Can’t think of much else as groups can vary so much and each will have additional issues to deal with, balance, coordination etc

Here is a discussion zone for the Rambaa Somdet M16 Muay Thai Library session (published 5/17/2019), which is pretty chalk full of technique. There is so much in it is difficult to total. One of the coolest things in it is the Pistol-Whip Elbow that he teaches within the clinch. A GIF from when he first taught it to Sylvie a few years ago: In any case, this is a space where patrons (and others) can seek clarity or have back and forth on some of the details in Rambaa's fighting approach.

I hardly train at all right now, but I just love my Thaismai Gecko gloves. Everytime I see them, or even think of them, they make me happy.

In everything we do in life too if its going as it should. At 48 I dont train like I did at 30 or 15. My style "evolved" from a take one to give one, tank style fighter to more muay Femur out of necessity from too much damage in my youth. Seeing these fighters turn coach and evolve is like sipping fine wine. Makes me excited for all the fighters I love watching now and where they will head in the later years.

Apologies, to be fair that was a bit of a bitchy rant on my part

It's actually a pretty crappy term. It immediately positions the problem, and more importantly its solution as academic, the discourse (hahahaha, yeah, "discourse") on it and its reality at a very rarefied level of class. And it isn't even rule by the father. It's really rule by all the sons of the father...perhaps filiiarchy.

I particularly like the phrase “general tide”. I’m always a huge fan of elegant ways to describe prevailing terms. I sometimes use the word “patriarchy” cause it’s accurate. But It’s painful to use, actually physically hurts, and many people (including myself as a teen) simply go blank. So a tide - beautiful. This is so interesting. I do an annual “wild goals for the year” sheet and what you write about Sylvie is true for me too. I write in the plainest terms, force myself to make elevated goals (and yes I meet them), but there is a feeling of looking around sort of furtively as I write. Wtf.

Ah Kaitlyn I’m not sure what happened to your fantastic comment but I am glad I caught it. It’s extremely interesting that you observe a lot of progress comes from opposite sex coaches. I only know one female coach in a different style of fighting around here, and because she is a dragon (very rough), it takes a very particular person to train with her and at a high level yeah - it’s young men, not women (and I train with her son)! I wonder why this is. Thank you for all your thoughts, very much. Congratulations on your great fight btw. Can’t wait til you fight again. (Maybe my mobile is just not showing it or you wanted to reconsider something which is all fine; just happy to read it).

Maybe I can add this too, as a point of detail. There are really two important factors in one's experience in a Thai gym in Thailand. There is the general culture of the gym, which is the overall vibe of what is happening all around. Are the trainers lazy and not into the work? Is there a general sense of "This is happening, dive in"? Do you feel included or excluded? What are the qualities being expressed by everyone, the Thais, the farang, etc. This is like the high or low tide of the ocean, it floats or sinks all boats. It's hard to get a feel for this at a distance. It's going to impact people different, but more so because the feeling in a gym changes all the time. It depends on how crowded it is, which trainers are there, how much time the "boss" spends in the gym. The energy in the gym might be great one month, but then a top trainer goes back to his village and the gym is overbooked...then, not so great. That's why you have to go and see. The second part is which trainer are you put with? By most of our experience longer term farang will usually end up paired with a particular trainer, at least somewhat. This has a huge impact on your experience. You can be in the shittiest gym in Thailand and if you connect with your trainer, and get a relationship where he wants to improve you, this can be an amazing experience. On the other hand, you can be in the best vibe gym in Thailand, but if you somehow find yourself regularly with a trainer who is reluctant or dismissive, or whatever, it doesn't make up for all the wonderfulness of the gym. You don't have a lot of control over this aspect of a gym. You can try and steer this, somewhat, but it's kind of a roll of the dice. That's why you want to be in gyms that generally have pretty good trainers all around. But, no matter the gym you find yourself in, working on your relationship with a regular kru or padman is the surest way of having a positive experience. You just need that one. That's why I mentioned Kru Daeng at Lanna. I know for sure this is a very fight oriented, excellent, fair trainer. If you go there, b-line to him, and tell him Sylvie suggested him. Budgeting a few privates with a trainer is also a good strategy if you see someone you really want be guided by. So, whatever gym you are talking about, spend 2 days there and just take the temperature of the space. Then when you pick one, work hard on your relationship with your kru or krus.

Re titles, in USA its very common they call the leader "SenseiKruSir" for prof. ie professor. If you have in your country some usual everyday title for a teacher, you can use this instead, if you so want. So for example, here in Sweden male teachers in children school are called for magister. Nowadays it have no connotations any longer its really an academic title... Its just what you call all male teachers. Its of course worse for female teachers - they are called for miss.... So it is nowadays a title of sorts this too...Even if once upon a time miss and magister were a mark the male teachers hold a higher status and also a higher salary - because they were male... Im digressing, but you see the picture: Its formal titles but none of them bears much formal weigh. If the teacher by any reason dont want to be called by the first name, they use this title. But its common the swedish teachers use their first name. YOU can of course use your first name if you are comfortable with it. Its usually the best, but the risk is some few students may misuse the privilege... Just be prepared for it... Good luck!

You can book private classes on the Yokkao gym's website. Just pick a trainer, or a fighter, select a date and proceed to payment;) In regards to Yokkao's cleanliness, I can only say that it is not any dirtier than the average Muay Thai gym in Thailand, which means not very clean for western standards, but all in all passable. I remember reading a review of someone saying that the gym was incredibly dirty and that potentially deadly infections lurked in the dusty corners: nonsense. Imagine that at Sitsongpeenong I witnessed the little dog of one of our trainers pee (and worse) around the heavy bags, where we walked around barefooted. I never saw anyone disinfect the area. The only downside I could think of is in the fact that there is little clinching trained at Yokkao - which for me was a good thing as I hate clinching, although I must admit that it is a fundamental part of Muay Thai.

Not quite sure I understand entirely. Just meant dark and scary before because adopting a killer machine animal mean alter persona or whatever is something that always felt out of reach. It's always nervous & terrifying enough before a fight, so usually feel unable to think about anything that complicated. But maybe that's personal inexperience, who knows.

One of the most powerful and probably meaningful aspects of fighting as an entertainment form, but also an art, is that fighters do something that is a "peak experience" in most lives. Most of the fans in an audience have had very few purposive fights, and if they had them there were under extreme conditions. What fighters do the "normal" person will rarely do. It makes fighters kind of emotional astronauts, having to live in spaces - to perform in front of audiences - over and over in peak states. I think it can really be a struggle in how to manage going into those states, or at the very least exposing yourself to that kind of duress.

I agree with Kevin that you ought to just try both before committing to one or the other based off of a coin-toss. Hongthong is big, has two rings, has female fighters and lots of westerners. Joe and Gen are awesome, they have some other trainers working for them but I'm not sure how many now or who's there. They're fairly technical, in the sense that they drill things. It's largely a westerner focused gym. And it's outside of the city, though not far. Lanna (I assume you mean the one in the old location, under new ownership) is going to be largely Chinese, a few westerners, and some Thai kids. There are, indeed, two rings and women are only allowed in one of them. Daeng is the trainer to look for at Lanna, he's friendly and can help with any kind of technical instruction. They have some younger trainers, who are fun and playful, and as far as I've heard from their new structure, they are much more organized in their training than they used to be. They're right by the foothills of the mountains, near the university, you can walk to anything and get into the main part of the city in just a few minutes by a share-cab "song taew" truck. You don't know how is at either place until you're there. Whether you have clinching/sparring partners your size or not. If there are women there at that time or not. If you like the training at either one or not. Check them both out and trust your own judgement based on the experiences you have actually in the space.

That mechanistic structured way of teaching is also often the only way it makes business sense in the West. I mean come on, let's be real. You basically got a room with 40 people on the mat and only 1 trainer (translation: cult leader who wants to get his dick sucked), so people new to the sport are made to partner up and hold pads for each other. It's blind leading the blind - not their fault, they're forced to do it. How can you make someone who doesn't know something teach it to someone else who doesn't know it? Only by stripping the whole thing down and doing the rote thing you describe. Which then becomes only one very structured, K1ish combo for the entire 3 minute round, then switch pads over. And in that 3 minutes, 2 of those minutes are spent by the pad holder trying to figure out how to hold and where, remember what side etc. And god help you if you're a leftie. Absolutely nobody could do it. Round over, and you haven't even broken a sweat. Fucking disgusting, makes you wanna cry. And if you fight for that gym, pay your monthly membership, and want the trainer to hold pads for you, you're expected to pay him 50 an hour to basically do his fucking job. But usually that's the whole point. The highly structured thing you guys are describing? That's so he can spend *ages* talking and talking and talking when he demos the combination, more time than the students will spend actually doing the damn thing. Because in reality, that class he's running is in fact an advert for his personal training service, where he makes his real money. Basically from office workers with selfie sticks on the mat who are doing it for their Tinder photos. That's the Western gym's bread and butter, that's where the money is. If that Western gym was to do it properly it would need to split that room between fighters and casual exercise ppl, then hire at least 2 more experienced trainers/former fighters to take care of the people preparing for fights. But why would he pay those salaries if he doesn't have to? But then again this was all in my country, and from what you guys say it sounds like America does it way better than this.

What is this were the motto for our Muay, or, alternately, for our living...which is the same thing: - Per Bak This is very close to a poetic, quasi-conceptual unraveling of Sylvie's motto: "Live the question."

Oh and side note on language. I had a professor that was really known for his theories on language. He believed, and could back it up with research, that to really learn a language you had to think in it. So how do you do that if you dont understand it? He realised that people living in other countries picked up the language faster than those that were at home. He deduced that it was the immersion in the culture that really got them to be so responsive. It wasnt just that you had to learn because thats all they spoke, it was that culture shapes the brain and language is tied to culture. In essence it was really the immersion to the culture that got you thinking the right way to be able to think in the language, like a prep or lol pre workout. You became primed to learn. It really made me become more receptive to idea that culture (basically ideas) is the root of everything.

My real analogy, the one I always turn to, is the learning of language. Do we really crave structure in learning a language? I kind of think not. I guess I can only speak for my own experience, but structure when learning a language always feels like something getting in the way. Just a bunch of stuff to be memorized, tested on and then filed away. When learning a language you immediate, more or less, want to know how to use it. Right away. How do I say "cat"? How do I swear? And, as everyone knows, the most direct path to fluency is immersion. Which means using it, using it, using (for a very long time wrong). Muay Thai, at its real level, is like a language. Which is why it's pretty much taught like a language in Thailand. You learn a couple of words, and then you just start using them. Then you learn some more, and you use them. You are not taught structurally. Now, I understand that teaching a class of 30 people, of differing levels, in an unstructured way is not easy. And indeed for many it might be impossible. But it does happen in Thailand, only it's not a class. I think the real reason why something like Muay Thai is taught in a structured way, so much, is because of the demands on teaching itself, which is not easy. Not really because people crave structure. I was always struck by watching Andy Thomson teach beginners (a westerner who taught in Thailand for 2 decades). He would start them out with. Stand naturally. Now take one step forward. There, that's your stance. And he would proceed like that, and in 30 minutes - I swear - you were "doing" Muay Thai. Like...pretty damn good Muay Thai, considering. He put them on the bike immediately, and he was like: pedal. I don't think this kind of training or teaching style is easy. It takes a certain perspective. But one of the coolest things about Muay Thai is just how simple it is, at the bottom of it all.

Totally agree. I think also western mentality has a lot of mix with domination and aggression. So many cant have one without the other, and that just in regular day life. The teaching of domination without aggression is such a huge aspect of martial arts.

Changes to Lumpinee Stadium: Not sure if you all will be interested in the kind of "what's going on in Thailand" news, but I find it interesting and will be posting things here. Recently, there was a big meeting at Lumpinee with the head of the stadium. Lumpinee is run by the army and the man who is the head of the stadium is a high ranking officer, whose face was showing up in photos and and reports of this meeting, which seemed to be focused on 1) creating a new set of enforcement for punishing fighters who "lom muay" (that's "taking a fall" or "throwing a fight" to us), with a specification that "dek" (the word for children, but also colloquially used for "young") will be given a second chance; as well as some rules I'll have to get help fully understanding from Kru Nu, which seemed to be about fighters who change gyms and their alliances. And 2) how to drive more business to the Lumpinee, Ram Intra area throughout the week so that it's not just the 3 days on which they have promotions. When New Lumpinee opened, it was hit hard by being a completely inconvenient location and audience attendance plummeted. There are some things to do over there, but there's construction on the overpass and traffic is terrible, so the financial struggle at the stadium is real. The part that's interesting is this "lom muay" part, because within a couple days of this meeting, this fighter was accused of throwing his fight. Aekgarat Tor. Dor. Gudanamsai is seen in this video returning backstage after the referee called his fight off. He was out of power and after the third round the referee announced the fight was dubious and had both fighters exit the ring. I've seen this before - the first time Kevin and I saw it on TV we had no idea what was happening. It's not frequent, but sometimes a referee will decide that one fighter is not really fighting, or trying to throw the fight, and he'll stop the fight right there and all bets are cancelled. Sometimes fighters are suspended, sometimes there's an investigation and it's ruled that it was not being thrown; and sometimes the referee is suspended, in the case that his call for stopping the fight is deemed a method of cheating for gambling purposes. Suspensions are uncommon. But the disdain that fighters who are known to have thrown fights are spoken about, demonstrates this is a big sore spot on the face of Muay Thai. In this video, the military police come into the back room. He mostly just stays there to keep the fighter and trainers from going anywhere, then escort them to a meeting with this high ranking officer who runs Lumpinee. There were photos of that meeting in posts after this. Ultimately, the fighter explained that he was a replacement for this match and had only a week to prepare, which is why he had no power in the fight. He was not suspended or punished, ultimately. But in the video there's a guy who comes and is just screaming at this fighter and his trainer. You get a good glimpse of Thai style "not my business" with folks in the background, including another fighter who is getting ready for his match. The guy who is yelling is a gambler and his language is harsh. You'll get gamblers screaming at fighters from the stands after fights, but it's another thing for them to come backstage. I find it interesting that the military police officer is only concerned with keeping an eye on the fighter and trainers and has no care at all for controlling the gambler. In the comments on the facebook share of this video, my favorite is from a guy who, using very harsh language himself, directs his comment at the gambler and says, "if you've got so much energy to yell at the fighter like this, why don't you go fight the opponent yourself." Ultimately, one of the reasons I'm sharing this is that the proximity of this meeting and announcement of punishment for throwing fights to an event in which a fighter is accused is highly performed. To have published photos of the meeting and then published photos of a fighter being accused, taken to the office, and ultimately let off with a warning all appears to be a "we made a rule and watch us enforce it!" kind of thing. https://www.facebook.com/190387948278006/posts/360860344564098/

I 100% get what you're getting at with the Dexter vs. Conan example, but I chafe at the serial killer comparison because I believe you have to actually be quite empathetic to be a good fighter. You have to know what fear and pain and shame feel like to be able to impart them on your opponent - and to a softer degree your partner in training scenarios. But yes, definitely not the "beast mode" of the Conan approach. I've found that for myself, a degree of insistence is what works the best for me in training. I'm slightly pissed off, but not in a way that's directed at anyone or anything. It's just that my version of slightly pissed allows me to let go of judgement, I think. There is a kind of Hannibal Lector quality to feeling the emotional and energy state of your partner and calmly guiding them toward the deep end. Like, "you look close to quitting, let me just nudge you a bit." I've personally had a hard time learning how to have that "killer instinct," or your version of a kind of sociopathic instinct, in aiding your partner's weaknesses because it feels shitty. For a very long time, if I knew that what I was doing was putting my partner in an emotionally difficult place, I'd back off. Even though in part of my mind I know that's no favor at all. There's a fighter at my gym who is the universal little brother. He's literally the little brother of one fighter, but he's the youngest (without being the 7-8 year olds, who are kind of their own set), and he's a butterball who gives up and hates being tired, so Kru Nu is always working to toughen him up. Like, if he can't finish the morning run in 1 hour, he has to run more. A few times, he's been running on the road, all of us in the van with the doors open just kind of crawling alongside him. It's punishment, for sure, but it's not just him. If Alex comes in behind so-and-so, he has to run extra or do pushups or whatever also, and he's kind of a "star" of the gym. So, I struggle with this because I have a compassionate impulse to get out and run with the little brother. Just so he has a partner, a friend, something to make it less all-eyes-on-you. But I also know that a lesson is being taught and by jumping out and doing that, it comes off as "motherly," which I 1 million percent do not want to associate myself with in the gym. It's that same struggle when I feel my partners wanting to quit, or having a hard time, or hitting an emotional wall. I've been there. And I've had people ease up on me - so I know that just lets me stay exactly how I am. And I've had people not ease up, and I know that helps me grow. So, it's a weird version of "serial killer compassion," as it were.

Thanks.. It's just the way I am. I really don't see anything special in it. I'd rather be in control of what I do than let any,"Maybe it might happen", control me. That isn't to say, I do things Willy Nilly. My left leg is compromised, I still teep and check well with it, but body kicks are a definite no no. Sometimes even low kicks. I think this has lot to do with the hip rotation at impact. But then simple things, if I don't do them correctly can lay me up for a good stretch. It's funny but embarrassing, I got stuck on the toilet once because I turned to use the toilet paper instead of what I usually do and take the roll off the holder. . There's nothing wrong with competitiveness and the simmering down with age is a good. As we get older we get wiser, or so my grandma used to say. We just gotta train in a way that suits. Sometimes that more easily said than done, depending on one's nature. Me, I tend to obsess and this leads to mistakes, leads to injury which can lead to down time. I don't do down time real well.

Uuuh that sounds hectic. I feel that level of respect for each other has to go up in parallel to the hardness of sparring otherwise it gets so ugly and emotional affecting everyone.

Living with the same one gym over there pretty long term, this doesn't seem familiar. Apart from maybe like, 1 douchebag the entire time who was gone in a week, all the other foreign dudes were cool as fuck and hardworking and got friendly. All the politics and bullshit happened back home, and it was the best thing ever to leave all that behind.

I was so happy with this session. I felt like Rambaa's approach to expressing his style through these techniques was really strong. I'm interested to see what other people see, because I'm pretty deep in the water and seeing through other people's lenses is so illuminating.