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I liken this to an element of Vipassana Meditation practice. The short version of explaining Vipassana is that, unlike tranquility meditation, where you're trying to get into a kind of mindless trance, Vipassana takes as its object the body (roop) and the mind (nam) and you don't want to change consciousness at all. You want to be focused, concentrated, but not overly focused/concentrated (which would be a trance or tranquility) and not overly distracted (unable to remain in observation of the two objects). So, to use your example of the leg kicks, Roop (the body) is kicked and feels pain, Nam (the mind) observes the pain - neither of those facts are YOU. There is no "I." It is not your leg nor is the sensation your pain. Rather "pain is happening," and because the body has sensors to experience that pain and the mind has sensors to observe the experience of that pain, the reception is also happening. So, rather than that the gods or Fate or the universe has willed the pain, it's not held apart from the one-ness of everything else. "Pain is happening." That's kind of how Ning is so rewarded. The body is being kicked, but it isn't moved by it. The mind is not distracted or deterred by it. The present moment keeps moving, more or less. A river isn't halted by an object thrown into it, even if the water has to then flow around it. It's an incredibly high-valued quality and characteristic of a man. Women, too, but for different reasons, I think. I think for women it's far more not "making something" of anything, rather than being unperturbed by resistance or counter-will in a physical, combat sense. But for SURE Ning in the ring is held high and Ning out of the ring is held high as an attribute. 100%.

My first reaction was wow, this is cool. But, I can see how to western eyes this may appear over the top.

Hi everyone, i've looked it up and it seems like in Thailand scores are way different than western fighters, any idea where could find in depth scoring system, or would be kind be enough to elaborate on that? What gives the most points? I've also noticed that you can kick someone in the back? how about punches to the back? i'n our country it's illegal to do such thing's, any more insight on things like these , what's not allowed , what's allowed and what gives the most points. Appreciate the time you take to respond! Thank you and have a beautiful day!

I like your point about partners being dishonest with each other when they go too light. I've used the comparison many times that it's like tossing a ball at someone so gingerly that their ability to hit it with a bat is impossible. You have to pitch the f***ing ball, man. If you go too light, it distorts the technique so horridly that you're doing your partner a terrible disservice and they can't properly learn how to respond, block, etc. Interesting to me, also, is how different these two video clips look (to my eyes), despite them both being a "light sparring" example. The first video with Liam Harrison looks far too light to me. Like, you can only learn how to do tricks in that kind of sparring. There's nothing sincere about the basic movements and strikes, although the tricks and sweeps are slow enough that nobody is going to get hurt. Whereas with Pakorn and Sangmanee, the basics are all solid and the playfulness is present without it being "performed." But hey, my eyes.

One of the reasons I think that the traditional Muay music isn't necessary for Western promotions is that it's not live. Ever. The live version is great because the musicians not only read the action and respond, but also press the action by speeding up or getting louder, etc. It's like an orchestra pit under the stage of a ballet, versus those gymnastics floor routines set to a Michael Jackson mix (or something). They're not the same thing as each other. The use of the traditional music in the West is a nod to the traditions of Muay Thai, which I like. I wasn't allowed to do my Ram Muay at many of my fights in the US, first because they changed it so that only Pros were allowed, then they just cut the bullshit and said there's no time. There have been a handful of times in Thailand that I've been told not to do the Ram Muay (the Wai Kru bowing to your corner bit is ALWAYS allowed) due to televised shows not having time, or to speed it up and do an abridged version. I bitched about not being able to do my Ram Muay in America, quite a lot. I even said "fuck you" and did it anyway more than once. That said, keeping the music and butchering the art doesn't make up for it. People who do videos shadowboxing with a Mongkol on their head, it's got good intentions but what the hell is going on? If you're going to leave out some elements because they're strange to foreign audiences, that's fine. A Ram Muay is hard to watch if you don't know what you're looking at. The traditional music isn't easy on the ears if you aren't accustomed to it. But changing the movements, rule sets, and integrity of the sport - that feels more nefarious to me than the music. If they stopped playing it in Thailand, however (which, THAI FIGHT and other "international shows" have opted to do), I'd feel totally differently. It's a loss from the Thai tradition, it's a nod or not from the West.

Here, look at Somrak in this fight (red). He's facing a very tough opponent in Boonlai who gave lots of people a tough time. Somrak is fighting him with Ning, it really isn't Stoic, its something else: Ning isn't just a monk-like being unperturbed, it also has a kind of flair to it. It's the Buddhistic floating through, but it is also the coolness of an assassin. Which is why that article above, on how the Nak Muay is a blend of the Monk and the Nakleng. You can see that aspect of Ning in the fighting style of Karuhat:

The principle she referred to was "Ning", is very important component of Muay Thai excellence in Thailand. You can win entire fights through Ning. Samart, who many consider the greatest ever, was a Master of Ning, and his reputation for Ning made him very hard to beat. It's been a while since I read the stoics, but I don't think eudaimonia maps perfectly onto Ning. From what I recall, eudaimonia is a kind of blessedness. It literally means having a guardian angel (daimon) who watches over you, and is strongly connected to Greek arete (nobility and excellence). It carries with it a kind of imperviousness, and also an aspect of being above it all. There are many rough parallels between Buddhism and Stoicism, and sometimes when I'm reading western stoic influenced writers it feels like they have read Buddhism as well. Spinoza is a good example. But Buddhistic Ning, at least as far as I have come to understand it, does not have quite the same Christian-izable removal from events (at least to my feel). You are un-preturbed at a different level, maybe. The stoic is somehow above and removed. The Buddhist much more in the flow of things, in their reality, and due to that, undisturbed (if I had to take a stab at what I'm feeling here). Both of them counteract reaction, but use a difference of mechanism. That being said, if you became quite stoic about things in a Muay Thai gym in Thailand all the Thais would feel that you are behaving in the right way. To me there has always been a weird stiffness to western stoicism, that flows from concepts of toughness, endurance and maybe hierarchy of Being . Very inspiring and effective too. But in Ning there is an additional flexibility, a flowing quality. If you look at Ning fighters like Samart and Somrak you would never immediately think of them as Stoic, even in the traditional, philosophical sense of the word. They are almost floppy.

Sylvie has written and spoken a lot about this. Here is a list of articles that will give you insight, it's a very different scoring system that prizes balance, dominance but not necessarily aggression, and what is called Ning, the performed in ability to be affected, check those articles out: 8 Limbs Us - Muay Thai Scoring But yes, you can be hit in the back, and even the back of the head, which is why there is very strong advisement to never turn your back in the ring.

There is definitely a place for it, as I said Ive had to use it and have also been on the recieving end with good learning coming from it. Just for me, 90% of the time, I cant be that guy because experience has taught me (as far as business goes) its more negative than positive in the states (specifically California lol). Ive even gotten to the point where I will only spar with specific people. If for some reason I need a hammer, Ill enlist one of my monster competitors and give them the green light. Thankfully thats rare. Most seem to get the concept of give what you want to receive and usually thats friendly competition not anger management lol.

This might seem like an odd question to bring up, but a peer posted in an American muay Thai forum about the traditional music being played during competition. He asked if people (coaches and fighters mostly) felt the music was too loud, specifically to hear the corner during the fight. In seeing the responses I thought, more for curiosity sake, it would be a good question to ask the international crowd. If asked, Ill put my feelings in a comment below.

Weird, because starting out back home, loads of those guys came through the 1st gym I was at. Karate guys, TKD guys, dudes who wanted to be ninjas etc. They tended to have the most awkwardness adapting to the new thing and didn't like it, so didn't stick to it. Guys coming from other sports like football, triathlons and stuff did way better. Actually, even the guys who came from video games did better.

hahaha. So true. I just heard Joe Rogan say that if you are a kid learning to fight you really need to start with Taekwando because you can learn all kinds of amazing spinning kicks that you would not otherwise be able to learn (if you were exposed to real, fight limitations, someone disturbing you, interrupting you, etc). And then once you've learned all the spinning kicks (I can't even write this, I'm rolling my eyes so hard), then you can move onto more realistic fighting arts, like Muay Thai and whatnot. Shaking my head. And THIS guy (and I do like him for other things) is the prime educator of what fighting is to America, and really the world. Edit: here it is. Listen for 2 minutes, mind blow:

Why can't you access to the General Forum? You should have access to everything above. There is a Woman's Only forum which is in the lower half of the the home page, which only women can write in, but the major forums are open to everyone. This is completely made possible through our Sylvie's Patreon Support, we would never be able to do any of this without it, and in fact would never have thought to do so. But I think it's really important to create these kinds of spaces, where different kinds of conversations can be had, and also preserved. Not everything can be a breakdown, or a badass highlight, or lots of rah, rah conversation or argument. But, we have to make these spaces (as in, design them, pay for them, manage them and invest socially in them), they won't just arise on their own. Communication trends aren't going that way. But we are! Thanks for your contributions to the Forum! It's as only as good as everyone giving what they have to it.

Thank you! Appreciate the time you take to respond! Have a beautiful day.

Wow.... So many thoughts and expressions, all of them valid. My two cents worth is as follows. I find that when you spar with young men in particular, they feel they have to go all out as an expression of their manliness. I call it the old bull, young bull. The old bull, me, is calm, not tense and is there to play around and have fun. Your contact is solid but not over the top. The young bull by comparison, still hasn't figured out his place in the world, subconsciously everything he does is about his masculinity, he's all tense and wants to have fun but doesn't have any real idea how to go about it. So, as the old bull, sometimes you have lay the smack down and drop a couple of bombs. If this is done in the correct manner, with the right intent shown the young generally pulls his horns in. Sometimes they don't and things can escalate, but it's been my experience that these types are just pricks and aren't used to being put in their place.

Only if you disturb your opponent, which means moving them off the spot, or psychologically affecting them. There is a secondary, more subtle way that it can score, and sometimes score highly. If you use it to "ring control" your opponent, meaning, juggling them in some way, appearing as if you are keeping them at the distance you want them to be, when you want them to be there. You can do this without disturbing your opponent physically or emotionally, and still score. But just a single, well placed teep that has no visible effect doesn't really score, at least by my observation.

I started training at age 18 but at that time I decided i’d rather be skateboarding and so I spent the past 17 years mostly skating but still having a Muay Thai interest. So even though I don’t have fight injuries; i have tendon issues in my right ankle that snap back on me from time to time causing pretty acute pain. I think i have a rotator cuff issue in my shoulder as well, but I think you’re right about training differently when you’re older with injuries. You just train smarter. If i were your student I would seriously consider it.

Geez, such a large, loaded issue that ultimately comes down to Muay Thai branding, and it's value. Muay Thai is pulled in two directions, right? Dive in, and become more and more like Kickboxing, which itself isn't very popular, which is parasitic upon MMA...so, ultimately, become more and more like MMA. There is a stream flowing, let's try to be in it as much as we can. And, alternately, try to brand Muay Thai as distinct, full of cultural heritage, unique, and not like Kickboxing at all. It seems to me that the more it tries to become like Kickboxing it's just going to be a weird form of Kickboxing. And as Kickboxing is already terribly niche, this kind puts Muay Thai in a very tiny corner with almost no real possibility for growth. Additionally, if we are going to admit that at least in the United States Muay Thai is always going to be niche, niche sports thrive on the passion of their followers. It isn't going to be huge numbers that is going to float that boat, but rather the intensity of the few. All this points to - at least to me - that western expressions of the sport really do have to embrace the Thai-ness of the sport, and this includes it's practices and beliefs, the things that make it historically special, enrich it. There are branding advantages to this. The specialness can feel exotic (there is a history of martial art passion through the exoticness of it), and it can feel transportive. The music is part of that. There is also just the case for preserving Muay Thai's identity, as an identity. I've written in the past on what I believe are the 6 core aspects of the sport, the last of these includes the cultural anchor: The Essence of Muay Thai – 6 Core Aspects That Make it What It Is

Oh wow there is a lot in the link. I will definitely start reading them when I can and offer my reflections on this thread, if that is okay. I was just watching Sylvie's commentary on her fight #241 and I heard Sylvie talk about "nan-ding" I think was what I heard. Please correct my spelling. It was some concept in which a fighter remains calm during an engagement. This sentiment reminded me of the Stoic notion of eudamonia which is a type of calmness during any and all situations. It's a type of contentment with the circumstances one finds themselves in. Which makes me wonder what other little philosophical nuggets are hiding in Muay Thai pedagogy or philosophical foundations. For example, when I used to spar and take nasty low leg kicks, I would often find myself repeating this mantra: Nothing bad is happening, the cosmos has willed it as it is. This would help with the flinching, pain, and throbbing after eating the kick. I wouldn't really wince or limp because the mantra would help focus my mind on what is happening in front of me and not on what I was feeling in terms of the pain. The best analog I can think of is when Sylvie was talking about being unphased or without any facial expression after a kick or hit in her reflection of fight #241. So my question for this would be: How far is a Nak Muay expected to take this sentiment? Are they expected to take this "eudamonic" state to all facets of their lives or only in the ring? I ask because the Stoics would assert eudamonia to every single aspect of their lives: Friends left you? It is ok, you are not suffering an evil. Someone is robbing you? It is ok, it is as the cosmos wills it. Exiled from your country? It is ok, they are not forcing you to react negatively or positively to being exiled. A little disclaimer: we are just talking about how a fighter should respond to external pressures. I would also like to know if there are any philosophical ideas about how a fighter should respond to internal pressures.

I think both are great, in hard you become stronger mentally and psychologically and you learn to remain calmer when someone is going hard with you, while technical is esential to learn and hone your skills. Also depends the level you're at. I think it's important for both fighters to be on the same page before they spar so there wouldn't be any bad blood after this.

There are real things about age one has to take into consideration BUT if you do that then there is no reason not to compete. I train way differently than I did when I was 20 (48 now) because of injuries etc but its made it so I could compete now if I wanted to. Its just being realistic about who you are now vs how you were then. Too many remember the past but dont consider the now. Thankfully, starting later kind of makes that a moot point. Its all new. If you were my student, Id say do it.

I’m 35 and I’m trying to retrain myself to fight but given my age and the amount of time I would need to properly prepare for a fight, I think my fighting days are over. I’m still going to train and spar but most Muay Thai fighters have long since retired by this age. I have the will to fight but are my fighting days over?

I couldn't access the general forum part. Thank you, Sylvie and Kevin for creating such a space. It's wonderful to be able to converse with people of a like mind and without the presence of trolls. I have been absolutely mesmerised by Sylvie's YouTube channel since discovering it and joining 8limbs has been a great thing. Thank you too, to all the contributors for their intelligent and well thought out questions and answer. This place provides a lot of food for my brain.

Truth. And hilarious. Similar to commentators saying things like black belt in muay Thai to me.

Love watching it, but hate doing it. Feels like you're giving up too much for the attempt. But ahh, dunno really. Popularity of it in the West might come a bit from MMA and the level of informed fight culture it produces. Even from the commentators, or the journalists if we're gonna call them that. A guy can throw spinning shit all day that never lands, switch stance 5 times every 10 seconds from a mile a way when there's no purpose in doing it, or even just make up random shit. Then it's immediately called "Elusive...high level striking...unorthodox...creative etc etc..." in hush tones, and actually encouraged to guys just starting out. Now what I don't get......how come the people who encourage that kind of thing don't apply the same thinking when it comes to BJJ or Greco? Imagine a Jiu Jitsu teacher with 30 years under his belt training one of his white belts or blue belts for competition. He says, OK dude, so this is what you do...as soon as the ref says go, you run at the guy and throw a jumping flying omoplata, or look for a berimbolo whenever you can. Hell no. No way he would. Like... in no other sport would that thinking be acceptable. If that teacher wants to create the white belt world champion, he'll drill him with 2 simple sweeps, 2 simple guard passes, 2 simple submissions, tonnes of hip work, and tell him to go out there and play the percentages. O

And this is my only detractor to light sparring. Too light is an issue. Its like the punch in a demo that goes no where near the person's head. Ive had to tell more than a few people to actually make contact. Like anything else its balance. What is too hard and what is too light ends up depending on the person. Like I said in another post, Ive seen people get injured in light sparring because someone zigged when they should have zagged and a lightly thrown technique ended up being run into. At the end of the day, its combat. Theres a level of risk always. Find the balance.

Excellent perspective. That was someone elses opinion on the forum too. Its about true authenticity. Dont even get me started on the ram muay lol.

I think the reason Liam might be a bit too light is because in that session Liam was the teacher and the larger guy, so he might not have felt comfortable going any harder in that context. Whereas Pakorn and Sangmanee are both strong stadium fighters who are sparring for training, Liam is a stadium fighter working with a guy with a lot less experience

When it said select forum, the first one on the list wasn't in bold and that was the selection I wished to place this conversation in. It's no big deal, I just would have liked to place it in the right spot. It is a pleasure to be part of this forum. I really enjoy it. I love the whole concept of what you and Sylvie are doing. The patrons you have deserve a big congratulations for having the faith to support such an endeavour. And the effort you guys put into it is amazing. We the viewers, commentators and general fans get to benefit greatly. In particular, I have real fan boy moments with each Muay Thai Bones podcast.

I made this for you 3 Oaks. I saw it randomly in the fight and thought "Hey, 3 Oaks would like this!":

I'm asking the question, James..... My opinion is more or less identical to Sylvie's.

Hello all! This is my first post and I am really excited to throw my voice in with you! My question is this, what are some "go-to" texts, videos, or podcasts that I may be able to get my hands on to better understand the philosophy (if there is one) of Muay Thai. For example, I have been studying the ancient Greek Stoics for about 5 years (what I graduated in) and have noticed that their teachings have influenced modern Cognitive Behavior Therapy and Roman Catholicism/Christianity. I am wondering if there are any writers or thinkers like that for Muay Thai: people who wrote about the meaning behind each movement or the mental state one needs to be Nak Muay etc. and are revered in the community. Thanks for your time! I'll be googling around as well and make sure to share whatever it is I find.

Teep all day.

And this aspect, as a coach, is one thats a primary focus for me. At no time do I want the people I teach to feel overwhelmed by me. Yes, I dont mind a small healthy amount of fear of me, but thats more self preservation 1) cause Im now old and dont want to incur more damage but also 2) it might lead to being bad for business. I want them leaving class feeling empowered. Very rarely have I felt it necessary to give them the fear of God and usually its because I feel they have the bully in them towards other students I feel responsible for "curing" before they hurt someone else. For most, I just want them to have fun and feel free to explore things they are working on.

I really like how you translate combat with music. Thats a unique way of looking at it and I think, especially how tied music is to muay Thai, a good way to view it.

I like all your thoughts. I think there is a fundamental kinetic relationship between a grounded foot, which creates a leverage point, and the ability to store energy through torquing/tension, that come by virtue of that grounded foot (feet). There are other ways of creating tension (storing energy to be released) in a more localized sense, without such a direct relationship to that grounding, I imagine, but ultimately it seems to come back to that grounding, fixing the point. Where there is relaxation, where there is tensioning/torquing, seems to be all the subtleness of a technique, if I understand your question or idea here.

And this too. Hard to the body and legs with gear on and you can recover from it, hard to the head (even with gear on) and more and more research is showing that you have a limit on what can be taken. And the video with the brothers is exactly what hard sparring was for me. Imagine that all the time, up to 4 days a week, and you might sympathize with my perspective lol. And btw, there are some really good gyms in the West that focuses away from hard sparring (its still hard but the perspective is different). They have a perspective where their light isnt as light as people expect, but the control is there and the respect is there. There isnt any escalation and pace, power, etc is agreed on ahead of time. Some guys will go with what can easily be viewed as hard but the intent is just to push. The biggest reason they do this is injury prevention and longevity in the sport.

I checked out another compilation of the same kids, some of it really looked like excellent fake fighting. Punches pulled, like little whacks, but just for sound. Some might be hard (leg kicks, hey, there's no damage in that). This seems like Chinese performance, not far from the stuff we saw with Phetjee Jaa and her brother that freaked out the internet. But as Sylvie said, you don't know for sure unless you are there. Totally. And Sylvie and me might see this in a very different way because we see VERY competent young fighters all the time. We see 10 year olds that know how to handle themselves better than 30 year olds, so that can color our sense of safety too. But, to me, these kids look like they are swimming in water they have been been in for many years.

I think he sees it the way I do. Its not play, the boy got kicked hard enough in the leg twice to quit. It just seems reckless. Same speed power etc with gear on in a gym and we'd likely not be bothered. Maybe hes triggered because hes a parent and gym owner, so he sees liability? Dunno. Im triggered because its kids and it feels reckless and without purpose. Whether its fake/choreographed or real, it bugs me in ways that are hard to explain.

This. This is what matters to me. Intent. To explain a little about my background so people understand why this is important to me: I grew up just doing hard sparring, gym war type stuff. Intent is real and many that came up this way saw a lot of damage being done for no real reason other than "can you take it". There wasnt a lot recovery research being taught either. It was a walk it off mentality. Because of that I ended up a chronically in pain 38 year old. Its taken me years to get to the point where the pain is gone and my body is normal, years of recovery and therapy. Im in no way against hard sparring for the right people whether they are hobbyists that want to be tested or fighters prepping, Im just against the mindless hard sparring because tough guy shit. It serves no purpose. I mean, Ive seen really bad injuries in technical sparring, it happens. But sparring like everything else needs to be used as a tool, applied because theres a goal. If the goal is to push someone for competition or because they want it, then the intent is pure. Im all for that.

I like "hard" sparring better. Not because it's a more valuable tool - I think Sylvie pretty much nailed the qualities of all the training tools in her post. It's just a matter a taste. I usually have more fun when my partner and I sparr "hard"; but only if we don't take ourselves seriously. When there's too much ego involved, it's annoying as hell (asshole factor). On the other end when people whine about every single little bits of pain, it's also very annoying. Some of my trainers actually abide by that rule. Pretty unfair.

The asshole factor and the escalating thing. Most common thing I've seen around this is where, like, lets say like 2 people agree to do light sparring. Pick a number, say it's 40, 50% or whatever. One of them reckons, oh wait... my training partner is 5 kilos heavier than me... or oh wait, he's an inch and a half taller than me, or oh... he's got like... 2 years more experience than me. Therefore, that logically, scientifically means that I'm allowed (translation: 'Deserve') to hit him harder than he hits me. So he hits me at 50%, but I get to hit him at 80%, and that's the way to make it fair. So then what happens? Basically the 5 kilo heavier partner cracks him back at 80 to equalise, then the first guy loses his shit, throws his toys out the pram and emotionally hits back at 100. Then claims he had to because the bigger training partner escalated on him, without realising it was his own fucking fault to begin with. Not for nothing, but if you get kicked in the balls it's usually someone like this who does it.

I ultimately went with hard sparring, under the assumption that most people who would use this board are probably training in the West - and in my view if you're training in the West and aiming to fight, you're not going to get nearly as much ring time to get used to the intensity of a fight so that hard sparring is a must. That being said... For me the ideal sparring is technical, with a slightly slower pace, but with strong contact to the body and light contact to the head. When I see people in my gym sparring technically, I usually find that they're being too light, not being honest with each other and in doing that they don't learn the danger of a fight. Ideal sparring for me looks like this: Or this: When it comes to hard sparring, I think it's completely appropriate to bash people hard in the body and legs if they signed up for it. But I don't think hard contact to the head is ever really appropriate. A fighter should learn to defend his head through strong drilling and light sparring - never through heavy sparring. I think people read the words hard sparring and they think of something like the Groenhart brothers going to war: When it should be more like this:

Yes, Somrak has been on everyone's list, including our own! We got very, very close to filming with him when he had his own gym in Bangkok. We visited and filmed there (he wasn't around, so we filmed with some of his trainers), and then we visited again just to talk with him, and how do I say this delicately...he was several sheets to the wind, but kind of amazing. He said then he doesn't train people anymore, at all really, and we got the sense that he spent almost all his time in the part of the gym where chicken fighting was being done. But, he took Sylvie in and said yes, he would definitely film with her for the project (photo below). So, we were almost there! But, he then lost his gym in a very heavy gambling debt (I think). We literally drove up to it before the news broke and it was completely bulldozed. Like it was nothing but a lot. Without a gym, and with probably a somewhat carefree lifestyle, it will take some doing to get to the place where we can film with him. My own intuition is that this is something not to rush or push, but to just let it naturally evolve. When it happens it will be special.

Yes, this exactly. Master K, Sylvie's original instructor back in the New Jersey basement days, a 70 year old Thai man, used to say: "Don't hit with 5 lbs (your fist), hit with 100 lbs!" You get the same thing with boxers who "hit above their weight" or have "natural power". It's from all the parts lining up together, and communicating energy.

I've seen a few versions of this now. One in which the girl is wearing a frilly dress, one in which they look dressed more or less the same, and this one. They're all in hotel rooms, which is a bit odd. I have 3 older brothers and none of us ever learned combat arts to a significant degree. I think my brothers did 3 weeks of Aikido or something. So, when we hit each other it was unskilled. All that said, I train in a gym that has seen and currently has a few sets of brothers. They are not the same size as each other (not nearly as close as these two appear) and occasionally take it upon themselves to clinch or spar. Our trainer doesn't match them up - that often leads to "Jai Rohn" emotional states because... well, siblings. But when they choose to do it on their own it's very playful, even when rough at times. I'm a fan of it. The other day Alex and Bank, who are not real siblings but have grown up in the gym together for the past 5+ years (ages 13-18, so significant time at that phase) were sparring - directed to do so by our trainer because they have fights at the same time - and it got HEATED. They never lost control, but I haven't seen them look that much like brothers in years, just by the rivalry.

Personally I started training Muay Thai at 35 (I'm 36 now) and very out of shape. Used to practice Fillippino Pekiti Tirsia Kali for some 8 years before but that was years ago, too. Had to take a bit of a break from seriously training for a while because we moved and whatnot but I will get back into it soon. Don't know yet if I want to actually fight or if sparring is enough for me but I don't really feel like my age would not permit that. When I started I was like: "I'm 35 now and look, Saenchai is 38 so I still have time" :P

I don't think 35 is too old at all! We've had people in their 40s join our team and fight for the first time and do really well. A lot of fighters stop by 35 because they've been doing it a long time and want something different or feel like they are slowing down. Part of that is the amount of wear and tear they have after training and fighting for more than 20 years though. They've been pounding on their body for decades. A vehicle made in 1983 with low miles will still run just fine

I've stopped thinking there's any such thing as being too old to do anything. Not out of my own experience obviously as I'm still only 28. But I keep seeing and hearing of people doing all kinds of incredible things at all kinds of ages. Here's Kru Rengrad (red short) one of my coach when I was at Lamnammoon's Muay Thai gym taking a fight in his 50s and smashing it (I don't remember exactly the date of that fight but it wasn't long ago): Also the oldest marathoner is, as far as we know, a man called Fauja Singh from East London who ran his last race at 101yo back in 2013 - and it appears that he didn't start young. (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-21565970/oldest-marathon-runner-fauja-singh-s-final-race) I see no reason why you wouldn't shine.

I'm also 35, so I don't think that's too old at all. I plan on another 10 years or more, so long as I can keep doing what I'm doing with adjustments where they're needed. But I do think that as a caveat, you just have to consider what YOU think is enough. A guy at my gym the other day asked me whether I think someone could fight, training only one session per day. I said for sure, but you'd really have to put the work in during that one session. I think you could fight with NO training, but it's about what you want out of your fights and what you want out of your training. So, if you think you're to old, probably that's going to direct your mind a lot. If you think otherwise, you can go farther.