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Suggestions for Krus and Legends to Film for the Muay Thai Library


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3 hours ago, Xestaro said:

Somehow he got pretty well known when some pretty hardcore pad-sessions with him went viral online. He seems to be a man who deeply mourned the loss of his ability to fight in the ring and now tries to help other people do that. Pushes his students very hard but because he really wants them to improve and be well prepared and at least to my eyes he also has a lot to offer. He seems to somehow have managed to take the spirit of a fighter he still has into being a trainer.

He's not really the kind of trainer we are drawn to. Yes, I know he's been highlighted lately, and people find him very interesting, but to tell you the truth the whole "viral" thing is pretty big red flag. Plus, I've seen this review of his gym, which is intense in its dismissal:

Elite Fight Club in BKK is possibly the worst gym I have trained at in Thailand, and I've been here over 30 times to train. I've trained in grassroots country gyms in Isaan where I was the first and only farang to train there, I've trained at hardcore gyms in the slums of Khlong Toei, trained at hi-so gyms in BKK where the rich Thai girls train, and I've trained at the tourist gyms in Phuket. Elite is by far the worst of them all. It was more like a fitness bootcamp class at the YMCA than a Muay Thai training session.

No Gae didn't beat me up. He was there, but he only peeked out his window at the class and then went back to bed.

 

Who knows what is true, but even if half of what was written is true of energy and what has been built, not very interesting. Live and let live is our motto, but these kinds of things we steer clear of, one way or another. I do appreciate the follow up though.

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20 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

He's not really the kind of trainer we are drawn to. Yes, I know he's been highlighted lately, and people find him very interesting, but to tell you the truth the whole "viral" thing is pretty big red flag. Plus, I've seen this review of his gym, which is intense in its dismissal:

Elite Fight Club in BKK is possibly the worst gym I have trained at in Thailand, and I've been here over 30 times to train. I've trained in grassroots country gyms in Isaan where I was the first and only farang to train there, I've trained at hardcore gyms in the slums of Khlong Toei, trained at hi-so gyms in BKK where the rich Thai girls train, and I've trained at the tourist gyms in Phuket. Elite is by far the worst of them all. It was more like a fitness bootcamp class at the YMCA than a Muay Thai training session.

No Gae didn't beat me up. He was there, but he only peeked out his window at the class and then went back to bed.

 

Who knows what is true, but even if half of what was written is true of energy and what has been built, not very interesting. Live and let live is our motto, but these kinds of things we steer clear of, one way or another. I do appreciate the follow up though.

Ooooh well I can understand that.

I can only judge from what video material I see online and that looked great and interesting, so... No worries, I can totally understand being careful after reading stuff like that. Didn't look into any reviews myself since I wont be in Thailand anytime soon.

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5 hours ago, Xestaro said:

To clarify a bit, I was talking about this man: http://www.ajarngae.com/

 

Somehow he got pretty well known when some pretty hardcore pad-sessions with him went viral online. He seems to be a man who deeply mourned the loss of his ability to fight in the ring and now tries to help other people do that. Pushes his students very hard but because he really wants them to improve and be well prepared and at least to my eyes he also has a lot to offer. He seems to somehow have managed to take the spirit of a fighter he still has into being a trainer.
I would be very interested to learn more about him and his style and see what he and Sylvie can do together.

I'm gonna jump on this one because I'm curious. Ajarn Gae is well known and so is Elite Fight Club. It comes up as suggestion in many discussions on muay thai gym, but mainly from westerners with limited experience of training in Thailand. And people with more experience will sort of not be too enthusiastic in their response. I've never tried it out because of this reason. I've seen one of the trainers (not Gae but also known) a couple of times on the BTS as I pass by EFC daily.

Anyhow now I see the same non-enthusiastic response and I'm curious. Is it because Gae and EFC are a bit touristy?

 

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On 9/1/2019 at 10:16 PM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Sylvie loves him. We almost set a session up, but our contact kind of moved out of the picture for a while. He was at Muaythai Plaza in Bangkok for a long time. I think we could track him down again. Thanks for the reminder!

I'm glad to hear Sylvie likes him, dangerous from any position at almost any distance. I hope that it'll work itself out and he'll be in there sooner rather than later. It'd be awesome! He's not at Muay Thai plaza anymore right? From what I've heard he's moved?

And while we're at it, any chance of Lerdsila showing up in the library? The Eel would be great continuing on the Jocky guys you've already got in the library.

Thank you for you're work and dedication in capturing "real" Muay Thai. I especially enjoy that it has become a real good bridge between old and new MT techniques. 

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3 hours ago, Sebastian CL said:

And while we're at it, any chance of Lerdsila showing up in the library?

Never say never, but he really is outside of our scope. We blend our filming around Sylvie's travel for fights and the islands are really not on the radar. If we do expand the next area of reach will be Isaan. There are many we want to film with several legends and krus. We really don't want to go to the islands, hahaha. But, maybe one day!

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On 9/28/2019 at 10:01 AM, Snack Payback said:

Sylvie is filming with Vicharnnoi today    

Unfortunately, this one didn't work out all that well! We got Dieselnoi to set it up, and he came with us and we all sat down and had a conversation, chatted old times, but Vichannoi was not in a place where he wanted to do any instruction. He's gained a fair amount of weight, and seems like a super successful businessman. So, we didn't push it, and instead and a nice talk. Not every effort to film works out! Vichannoi Dieselnoi and Sylvie.jpg

 

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On 11/21/2019 at 2:52 PM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Unfortunately, this one didn't work out all that well! We got Dieselnoi to set it up, and he came with us and we all sat down and had a conversation, chatted old times, but Vichannoi was not in a place where he wanted to do any instruction. He's gained a fair amount of weight, and seems like a super successful businessman. So, we didn't push it, and instead and a nice talk. Not every effort to film works out! 

 

No worries Kevin 👍  I'd actually come across a fairly recent picture of Vicharnnoi and Poot Lorlek in Siam Fight Mag just before Sylvie posted she was going to film with Vicharnnoi - and noticed he was a bit pum pui (I already knew Poot Lorlek had let himself go in his retirement). So it's understandable. Did you record the conversation?  

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3 hours ago, Snack Payback said:

Did you record the conversation?  

We did, but I'm not sure if it is worthy of a translation. It was mostly just Dieselnoi hanging out with him, which was nice enough. Dieselnoi literally got on his knees to greet him, which is really extraordinary to see a Thai do. And on his knees when he went to leave as well.

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On 11/23/2019 at 2:00 AM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

We did, but I'm not sure if it is worthy of a translation. It was mostly just Dieselnoi hanging out with him, which was nice enough. Dieselnoi literally got on his knees to greet him, which is really extraordinary to see a Thai do. And on his knees when he went to leave as well.


Ah ok, no worries

 

On 11/23/2019 at 2:03 AM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

He did gain quite a bit of weight, but fought Sagat as little as 8 years ago, don't know if you saw that:

 


Yes, Sagat was talking about it when I met him last year. He wasn't happy with the judges decision, thought he clearly won the fight  🙂

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2 hours ago, Snack Payback said:

Yes, Sagat was talking about it when I met him last year. He wasn't happy with the judges decision, thought he clearly won the fight  🙂

It was in Putlorlek's home town, or somewhere he has a lot of support. It shouldn't have been a surprise to him, hahaha.

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Hi Sylvie, love with all your great work and contribution to Muay thai, I hope you could help to film for Ajarn somboon, he is a former price fighter in Rajadumdern during 60s, head judge for referees in the south, and an instructor who teach Muay Thai trainer for more than 30years. He is also senior of Ajarn Surat. Below is his contact. Thank you once again. Much appreciated. 

Name: Ajarn somboon Tapina

Gym name: Muay Thai Martial Arts Academy Surat Thani

Contact: 081 895 4861

Website: https://sites.google.com/view/muaythaiacademy

 

 

 

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I think Parinya Charoenphol would be a great addition to the library. From cursory internet research she had a gym at some point in Pran Buri, Parinya Muay Thai. The most recent facebook post is from 2012. Here is her blog with a phone number and email https://parinyamuaythaigym.blogspot.com/.

 

Not only would I be interested in hearing her experience as a (most?) popular kathoey fighter but also shes just got an awesome style. She has a strong defend and return attack as well a cool side teep among other weapons. Her flying elbows and knees look unique and fearsome and isnt something Ive seen much in the MTL.

 

Heres an intense fight of hers if anyone is interested. Such a close match!

 

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How about a session about the early grind of the young fighters?

In many sessions it is said that there is heavy grind in the early years of training, for example the session with Singdam Kiatmoo9, which leads to a solid foundation in most of the future fighters. 

 

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Was browsing this thread and in response to Samkor's whereabouts, he is at an upscale boxing gym located in the financial district of Hong Kong, https://www.southpawhk.com/about/. The place does small group class trainings and PTs, but is quite expensive. I checked prices back in Aug 2022. They did have a buy a PT trial session, get a second session free promotion back then. However the standard list price PT sessions were around USD115 and that was from purchasing a 12 class package.

As I've only started MT a year ago recreationally, I will get a bit better first before doing PTs with him!

 

@Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu @Mick Moody

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He brings a furor to bear against sovereignty, a celerity against gravity, secrecy against the public, a power (puissance) against sovereignty, a machine against the apparatus. He bears witness to another kind of justice, one of incomprehensible cruelty at times, but at others of unequaled pity as well (because he unties bonds.. .). He bears witness, above all, to other relations with women, with animals, because he sees all things in relations of becoming, rather than implementing binary distributions between "states": a veritable becoming-animal of the warrior, a becoming-woman, which lies outside. Let us take a limited example and compare the war machine and the State apparatus in the context of the theory of games. Let us take chess and Go, from the standpoint of the game pieces, the relations between the pieces and the space involved. Chess is a game of State, or of the court: the emperor of China played it. Chess pieces are coded; they have an internal nature and intrinsic properties from which their movements, situations, and confrontations derive. They have qualities; a knight remains a knight, a pawn a pawn, a bishop a bishop. Each is like a subject of the statement endowed with a relative power, and these relative powers combine in a subject of enunciation, that is, the chess player or the game's form of interiority. Go pieces, in contrast, are pellets, disks, simple arithmetic units, and have only an anonymous, collective, or third-person function: Thus the relations are very different in the two cases. Within their milieu of interiority, chess pieces entertain biunivocal relations with one another, and with the adversary's pieces: their functioning is structural. On the other hand, a Go piece has only a milieu of exteriority, or extrinsic relations with nebulas or constellations, according to which it fulfills functions of insertion or situation, such as bordering, encircling, shattering. All by itself, a Go piece can destroy an entire constellation synchronically; a chess piece cannot (or can do so diachronically only). Chess is indeed a war, but an institutionalized, regulated, coded war, with a front, a rear, battles. But what is proper to Go is war without battle lines, with neither confrontation nor retreat, without battles even: pure strategy, whereas chess is a semiology. Finally, the space is not at all the same: in chess, it is a question of arranging a closed space for oneself, thus of going from one point to another, of occupying the maximum number of squares with the minimum number of pieces. In Go, it is a question of arraying oneself in an open space, of holding space, of maintaining the possibility of springing up at any point: the movement is not from one point to another, but becomes perpetual, without aim or destination, with out departure or arrival. The "smooth" space of Go, as against the "striated" space of chess. The nomos of Go against the State of chess, nomos against polis. The difference is that chess codes and decodes space, whereas Go proceeds altogether differently, territorializing or deterritorializing it (make the outside a territory in space; consolidate that territory by the construction of a second, adjacent territory; deterritorialize the enemy by shattering his territory from within; deterritorialize oneself by renouncing, by going elsewhere . ..). Another justice, another movement, another space-time. Deleuze & Guattari, "1227: TREATISE ON NOMADOLOGY—THE WAR MACHINE", A Thousand Plateaus: Capitalism & Schizophrenia   Becoming and A Warfare of Capture What Deleuze and Guattari are invoking is a conception of warfare which is much more fully potentiated. Not locked into rigid hierarchies and roles of figures of power, it is a much more metaphysical battle that reflects aspects of what I have argued is the spiritual foundation of Thailand's Muay Thai, an animism of powers within the history of the culture that predates the arrival of Buddhism (Toward a Theory of the Spirituality of Thailand's Muay Thai). This logic of an animism of powers contains an essential aspect of captured power, the incorporated power of a captured enemy, founded on what historians of Southeast Asia have called "Soul Stuff", roughly equivalent of Hindu shakti (strength). This can be manifested in captured slave labor, or perhaps even in the prehistoric rites of cannibalism through which one consumed the soul stuff of an enemy. You can find a logic of Soul Stuff here, this graphic below helps represent the animism of contest. A primary source on soul stuff and a fusion of military and spiritual prowess can be found with historian O.W. Walters here. Thus, within the cultural origins of Siamese culture, even that which pre-dates the Indianization of the region, we have essential aspects of a smooth, tactical space in a Deleuze & Guattari sense, which potentially maps quite well into the game of Go, especially as it is contrasted to Chess.   Further in concordance with Deleuze & Guattari's philosophical concept of liberty is the way in which Thailand's Muay Thai can be understood as revolutionary in their terms. Deleuze & Guattari write of becoming-animal, becoming-child, becoming-woman, deterritorializing flights inimitable to human freedom. Thailand's Muay Thai (& broader Thai agonism) de-privileges these categories, along a continuous spectrum of thymotic struggle, which runs thru the social hierarchies of low to high, sewing them together. One could say a smooth thymotic space of trajectories. Thailand known for its (ethically criticized) child fighting, women have fought for 100+ yrs, and beetle fighting embodies much of the Muay Thai gambled form. In many important ways Thailand's Muay Thai avoids the stacked arboreal structure of Western Man (& its contrastive Others), favoring a continuity agonistic spectrum within its (Indianized) hierarchies. It has strongly weighted traditional hierarchies, but within this a thymotic line-of-becoming that runs between divinity and animality. see Beetle Fighting, Muay Thai and the Health of the Culture of Thailand - The Ecology of Fighting more on the division of divinity and animality by wicha here: Muay Thai Seen as a Rite: Sacrifice, Combat Sports, Loser as Sacred Victim Knowing-as-doing, the wicha of technical knowledge of how to do, runs between the axes of divinity and animality in a way that supports a mutuality of any figure's becoming, from the insect up to the heightened champion fighter, in a line of flight shared by others. Most Deleuzian becoming-animal, -child, -woman examples come from the arts (sometimes the bedroom), but instead in Thai, gambled agonism we have the becoming of actual animals, children, women & the projective affects of an equally agonistic audience undergoing its own becoming-as. When I say revolutionary, I say "Thailand's Muay Thai has something to teach the world about the nature of violence and its meaning." Learning From Chess in How to See Thailand's Muay Thai Keep in mind, this isn't an direct one-for-one comparison of the contemporary game of Chess (and Chess Theory) and the ring sport of Muay Thai. It compares the dominant image of thought in the conceptual trend. Some have pointed out that my gross picture of Chess leaves out its post-1920s modern Chess Theory development, which often eschews central forward advancement. What is important in the Chess example isn't how Chess was played in 1960s, say, but rather that Chess over the sweep of its history allows us to see how it expressed the martial logic from which it came, ie, how some battles were fought in the field, with advancing lines, and a central capture of territory focus. Chess I would argue contains a martial logic fingerprint in its organizational structure, just as the real life political powers of Kings, Queens, knights and bishops made their impact on its rules & formation, the increased power of the Queen on the board said to be a fine example of this (see: A Queen in Any Other Language). Even in the Hypermodernism of Chess one might say that the center still holds importance, as there are just other ways of controlling or managing it.  Hypermodernism for instance may have reflected the increased use of cannon & then WW1 artillery. Between the two games of Chess and Go are differing Martial Logics. It doesn't mean that there is zero fighting for the center in Muay Thai (or in Southeast Asian warfare...siege warfare is prominent in Ayutthaya history for instance, though with influence from the Portuguese, etc), or that there is zero edge or flank control in Western European warfare or Chess (flank maneuvers are numerous in European warfare). The contrast is really meant to exposed how we perceive conflict spatially, and that these are things we've culturally inherited. You see these inherited concepts, for instance the centrality of territory capture in common Western scoring criteria like "ring control". Centralized conflict is part of our past and informs how we judge fighting styles, just as edge conflict is part of Southeast Asia's past. And importantly this also informs our ideas of violence, with a European tendency toward "kill" (to control land, ie the center) and a SEA tendency toward "capture"(to control labor, ie the edge).  
    • Hey so im an ammateur fighting in europe mostly at DIY events. The thing is even though every fight I improve I am never able to win and its starting to get to me.  I have 5 fights in total 2 k1 and 3 muay thai and iv never won a muay thai, won 1 k1 cos my cardio was better than the other girl and I just out brawld her.  People say wow your technique is so much better than the fight I saw you in last year etc but it still feels bitter to constantly lose. I know i am improving but feel that I always just get tougher and tougher matches, the last 3 fights I lost have all been very close fights. One I lost cos my opponent got injured and broke her ankle when I bloked with a knee but she was able to hide it, another one I lost cos she was using more clean techniques and I was brawling (this one I agree with 100% cos I was landing but it was sloppy.)  The last one I lost cos my cardio was bad which is also fine. I am fine with losing, its just starting to get to me that I never win. It also kinda annoys me that the only fight I ever won was one that I just outbrawled the other girl. Feels like my improvements havnt really helped me cos I just get matched with tougher and tougher opponents each time.  Im wondering if I should give up on decision fights for a while and just do non decisions to get my condifence back up or whether I will eventually break through and be able to win. I am also kinda old at 32 so even though my technique is improving my strength, reflexes and reactions will begin to fade soon. 
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