threeoaks

This sums it up for me. I didn't watch until this morning US time. I lost love for Ronda too when she started the gender bashing. I also still see her as a hero who is willing to be an anti-hero, to be a cocky villain (as Ali was) in order to consciously bring massive attention to women's fighting. I love Nunes. The UFC ignoring her was such intense, blatant racial and sexual disrespect it was appalling. Nunes' flawless indifference to those social realities was really beautiful to me - i mean an out lesbian champion in contrast to the gender basher - it was too much not to want her to win. None of this has anything to do with actual fighting, except that the beautiful, relentless 1/2s by Nunes were kind of.. restorative. Simplicity and basics. <3 Thanks for writing this. I don't want to haunt social media and say "yeah but" and try and explain why its sad, this loss. So you did it for me; appreciate it.

I completely agree with your conclusion.

Dear Boxing Scientist, I enjoyed your article when it was posted on Emma's great blog, and I enjoyed it again here. i think its very thorough and well argued. Anything I thought of to add, I realized you had already diligently covered. So I will just tell you this story. I am an artist who makes work about violence, particularly women as active participants (not victims) in violent situations. I did a show a few years ago in a small museum in upstate NY where I live, and I also lectured in front of my work, which featured several Muybridge-style (early photographer who recorded movement) analyses of a mom and her daughters kind of beating the heck out of each other (they are fighters). At the lecture, a woman raised her hand to ask me if I had ever experienced violence (because if I had, I would not make this work was her implication). I told her yes, I had experienced violence. I didn't tell her how, but among various things my brother is a total psychopath who was frequently violent, and I also train and spar regularly in two different martial arts. I mean I was standing there on crutches from sparring what can I say? She would have none of it, and simply repeated her question, several times. I respect that she had a different experience than me, and would never make work or participate in violent situations. But I also require that she respect that my response to violence is to look at it clearly and not shy away, because violence just IS. I don't think she, or a person with her view, will ever understand and that's ok. Consent is the watchword. If people consent to violence its cool with me, but I also accept that its not for everybody. Thanks for writing that super thoughtful piece. I thought about it a lot.

"Did anybody have to go through a ton of training, more than other students, before doing a smoker/interclub? How did you deal with the feelings of inadequacy? How did you motivate yourself to be aggressive about making progress? Has anyone seemed to hit a wall in their progress and, if so, how did you overcome that plateau? " First - ask your coach what exactly you would need to do to fight in a smoker. Find out what weight you would need to be. Don't take the answer personally, don't get hurt or mad (save those feelings for later or the women's only section). Find out exactly how much training you need and do it - make sure your coach knows you are doing the running already (guys always take credit for all their stuff - you should too). As for me I feel like I am always available as the "Jeezus if that old lady can try it I sure as hell can" lol. Yes I did and do have to go through way more training before fighting probably because I am not young (50). Last time I sparred with my main Muay Thai coach I did so incredibly poorly that I thought 'that's it; its never going to happen'. My head does all kinds of crazy shit on bad days - i have to ignore it and be willing to learn. My boxing coach helps me a lot with the mental side of things and there are many resources (check 8limbs for one). Two smokers have gone by since I stated my goal, and also 1 exhibition fight that I'd been invited to do. I am not ready yet, evidently, and then for the exhibition fight there was no woman my size (forget my age I don't care). Also, and this may not work for you, but I secured permission directly from the person holding the smoker, because I know her and I understand my coach's priority is to build younger fighters for the health of the gym. This is just reality and I do not take it personally. Yes your gym wants you to fight well and that is ok - it does reflect on them and that also is not personal. It is also just reality. Here is the thing: like anything, Muay Thai is most beautiful as.. itself. I love the training so much, and I love sparring. I keep having to pluck up the courage to state my intentions clearly; I cannot just state the goal once or twice. I have to tell myself and others that I want to fight, I know its a long shot, but that I want to try. Despite my fears, I have actually received nothing but total respect for my desire to fight. So many of my troubles are in my head. I have concrete limitations - my age, size and weight. But what is fighting but overcoming limitations?! Keep running, don't eat sugar or white flour, drop some weight, drink a ton of water, keep stating your intentions. My coach and I were talking about how much he wants more female fighters in the gym and how frustrated he gets that they won't "just fucking claim their space". Claim your space, is my opinion. I am with you.

It was terrible but also very much normal, cyclical life as you wrote above. Something to lean into. I like the beach pictures on Insta. Sorry about your client!

Well shit. Sorry about the concussion, but not sorry about the fight and your writing Kevin. Its beautiful she fought freer after the head-banging dump, and awful but beautiful that she forgets. Crazy to have the two legendary fighters witness it all. Hope your five days passes peaceably and is restorative. Cracks me up that there is scrapbooking going on. I made a great show (in my opinion one of my best) when I was stuck at home with two small children and a dying father; I basically scrapbooked instead of shooting out in the world (collaged). It was not actually appreciated at the time, but has had a long and great afterlife. Good luck.

I am so happy to read this. I have watched his fights and loved Dieselnoi the most (from this distance even). I almost suspected myself of liking him for his height (because of mine), but not really. Glad to read this beautiful statement about him and to know my feelings are real.

Crazy inspiring.

I had surgery but that's only cause i was falling down (knee was unstable). I agree with what Sylvie's trainer's experience was - no braces - wobble boards, quads, hamstrings, ankles. All the joints gotta support the knee. Best of luck to you.

Anecdotal comment - I am currently teaching a 32 year old adult (in art) who cannot hit a bag due to too many concussions in soccer.

Yeah there are some really clear cliches with the "highlight reels" in the US (that I see anyway). 1. Smoke. wtf. 2. Night jogging. 3. Personal hardship tale is told with completely different tone. Yes personal hardship can make a fighter, but your friend's story is told with such matter of fact grace. Hard to pin down the difference but I love it. 4. Showed him looking quite tired in training, talked about quitting, showed footage of him seemingly being dominated in the course of talking about his losing streak (which sets up the story of his comeback nicely and speaks to the organic narrative nature of Thai fight scoring you wrote about elsewhere). Sorry to go on but I have a horrible ankle sprain and too much time on my hands while I ice & elevate.

Holy sh*t what a total sweetheart tough guy. Thank you this was beautiful.

So sorry New Thai. Our gym (as I told you in PM) also said "Never Again". That story about walking around with your opponent talking to judges says it all. Just goes to show you how desperate people are to fight in the US if this has been going on for years. This one is supposed to be better (and not incidentally for me has a senior novice class that actually seems to have some fighters in it): http://www.tbasanctioning.org/MTC_Benefits.htm But again New Thai - just appalling. I have seen kid's karate tournaments where 8 year olds are fighting at midnight (I get from Thailand that seems like no big deal but as a parent I'd kill someone for making my kid wait that long and I am happy to be that parent because privilege yay), and I personally have worked at a tournament a couple times - incredibly confusing stuff but definitely no excuse to waste people's time, money and training like that. I went to a massive fencing tourney on Long Island a few weeks ago which was run incredibly tightly using bracketing software and screens to show what lane your bout was in (my son's bout). There is probably more money in fencing, you don't have weight classes, and there are the Olympics to shoot for (unlike MT), but there were 28 bouts going on at once, with judging on ALL of them. Seems to be a gaping hole in US Muay Thai. I hope Lion Fight does not go down too (the van Soest no-pay thing was a bad sign).

I had a complete tear and had to have it rebuilt because it was not stable. It would sort of whip me around with no warning; very funny. However one of my coaches trains and fights with no ACL at all and his knee is not unstable. Would be good to know if its a complete or partial tear (simply because that makes the difference for some people). Best of luck to you and so sorry about the injury.

Very interesting. I got all bent out of shape reading your thoughts yesterday Kevin. I don't like the obvious dig at Sylvie, the bastard. Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I think you laid it all out there everyone. The bottom rope is a sexist tradition, and its a personal choice to go under or over. Going over it, it helps if one takes an imperious (imperialist) tone and possibly have a large loud-mouthed coach behind you. Yeah we need men to confront this stuff sometimes. Ok I am going to lapse into profanity shortly so I will just thank you.

Yeah I saw the physical form. It must have been another context I saw age classes... dangit wish I could remember.

Awesome. I will go and watch, and try and register next year. I remember reading somewhere about some truly ancient (ok my age) fight classes at a tourney and I thought it was WKA Nationals but now I only see weights and experience levels. Can somebody explain/point me to the elder novice zone? I am working towards a smoker first but I train all the frigging time and really adore sparring (I have a looooonnnnng way to go at it still and no I am not putting it off - as an older athlete I gotta prepare to spend my injuries wisely as I don't want to be put out of the sport permanently - in other words I have to be sure I am somewhat coordinated in regular sparring before I attempt the next step). Anyone? In fact anyone old and novicey in the 145 zone want to just weigh in so we all can arrange to meet/spar whatever? Maybe this is a separate thread but I am tired of administering the old lady sh*t lol...

1. Be patient. 2. Spar as much as possible. 3. Don't be embarrassed to be a beginner. 4. Do a smoker (this one is underway). 5. Be consistent with basic practice at home. 6. Have fun.

..."And I think that part of it is that I am okay with being hit. I used to get upset, internally, and just rag on myself for making a "mistake" that caused me to be open for that strike. And that's clearly nonsense.." from Sylvie Thank you for that. I am stuck in that self-blame nonsense when I get hit. I want a debriefing committee and a ten page analysis with color-coded flow charts. I'm such a jackass. I crunched my wrist throwing a body shot that the person anticipated and turned into, hard. I was all hangdog "its my fault" and JJ goes "What. You were roughhousing?" (whiny mom voice), "OMG you were ROUGHHOUSING?!!". So fucking cheerful.

OMG that kick. Thanks everyone; very interesting.

Oh! That's why my boxing trainer makes me skip all the time. Thanks!

Thank you Kevin. Want to try it now. On my kitchen stove. Not a good idea. Tomorrow!

Thank you NewThai - enjoyed this very much.

And MTetris sorry - huge congratulations and big respect for your first fight, and your beautiful humility asking for review and suggestions. Whole thing is very inspiring.

OMG miss the teep and reverse elbow - EVIL. Is there a video of this?