threeoaks

hahahahahah I accept that there is difference of course. I just don't focus on it, and try and screw them (bio arguments) up every chance I get cause they irritate me Oliver. I believe this. Its too funny. One has to ask, 'what is a girl', in that case, if a girl is rejecting too many "girls". Is it the less serious people? Or just the loss of the higher level of power/technique/aggressiveness? Some of us prefer to be around men cause its less complicated. No generalization is really possible. Thanks for your experience! Sometimes I wish I could, like you, just not think about it. But it's my life's work as a visual artist so I try to stay loose but remain conscious.

Jeremy. The dread of paralysis, yet you train. Absolutely inspirational, as is training when you know you are not the same athlete as before. I experience this daily as a person who is no longer young, but was once an absolute grinder, more than anyone around me. Much less difficult (aging is after all a privilege since the alternative is death). But my competitiveness blurgh.. it requires constant simmering down. Thanks for your example.

Sylvie thanks. I know you have so much writing in the subject and this is a very general question. One of the reasons I follow you and your fight career is your hyper-consciousness of yourself as a Western female in the Thai context. You are a voyager not only across cultural lines, but also really across gender lines and i just love how you open up the path for those following you, and credit those before you. So I feel silly asking you the general question but I appreciate your thoughts. Your comparison evokes what I believe - there is a sameness (in motivation), inflected by profound social difference (numbers of fighters and response to ego challenges). Very succinct and confirms what I observe in a broader general sense. Having had kids now, everyone expects me to finally sign on the biological gender differences and fine yeah, there are differences. But I hate biological arguments - they often break down (compare the level of testosterone in any elite female athlete's body with an ordinary woman's levels and you have what, a more male person? I don't accept this silly line of reasoning where a single hormone defines a gender). Attitude and durability (where the women, in your observation, continue working whereas the males often disappear under durress) are all. So I always appreciate, deeply, your conscious voyage. to you for it, all day long.

Jinx! Yes!

Had to look up hypostatized. I suppose it’s true you can extend the idea of beauty to be “the thing one likes”. I often have this argument with studio driven artists (who are more craft-driven) and conceptual or “post-studio” artists, for whom obviously the idea is the beautiful thing, and they signal that by making extremely plodding, minimal or otherwise unattractive objects if any object at all. Neither artist understands or respects the other. Interesting re; martial craft. I love that. I view craft as on equal footing with art, & usually find it’s an extremely specious, class, race & gender driven distinction. “Reading in Detail” by Naomi Schor is a good book for breaking down the history of value & the words used to signal it in visual art. btw I love un-beautiful things too. Cut faces, busted pots - wabi-sabi!

May your dream come to fruition . I have a friend and coach who has broken his neck (pro rugby) such that if he takes a blow to the head he’s looking at paralysis. He mainly does BJJ now (which actually seems more injury prone AND injury friendly, oddly). I can’t imagine there aren’t risks but you do what you love. Glad you survived your injury.

Utility is a good dividing line in martial arts (love how you frame the question in both directions), but in contemporary art there is not an inarguable line between art and craft, nor is beauty in any form a requirement (debatable what beauty is of course).

Love that story. Body body body and good bye!

Yes that makes sense regarding the sexuality business. And I love what you say about technique over power.

Got ya.

Are you suggesting sometimes female students, because they work harder, might get more focused attention from coaches leading to the weirdness I mentioned above ("Daddy look at ME" type of competitiveness)? Perhaps it is not a behavior that you notice, or maybe its as Jojo says and only the fitness types that do this.

So great. My coach tells me a similar thing - its just so rewarding to be listened to, and the female ego seems to be different. That said I think it takes a strong male ego to be coachable at all, so it speaks well of you that you have many male fighters. Thanks James.

First, this is exactly what I am interested in - nice to know how it works beyond my little East Coast America frame. So the Taiwan point of view is interesting and makes sense. I love imagining you yelling "you can do it" OMG. The best. Incredible and well put. Thanks that is a very helpful distinction in sorting out my own two minor but annoying experiences. Both women were more fitness oriented people even though damn, they are adults (one is at my karate gym, the other was at Western boxing). Nobody does this at my Muay Thai gym. NOBODY. You are so right - no real fighters ever look the gift horse of being able to punch me in the mouth, in the mouth! Thanks again!

Jeremy thank you. I am interested to read that the schools are generally egalitarian in Queensland. I am back East in the US, and grew up out West (which is probably culturally more like Queensland). I love the story of your big woman. OMG. I am very tall too and its strange being a bigger woman - you are constantly challenged on your gender (as many muscley women of all sizes are; I reckon Sylvie has written about this). Three months and a huge difference! You must be a great coach.

Would love it if Kaitlin will hop on and will be watching her fight! My thoughts & intuitions are kind of a constant stream, actually. I know its a general question but I am doing a show in NYC that includes a ladies MT fight night and this will result in people asking me why I think women ought to do martial arts in general, Muay Thai in particular. These will be people hostile to the idea of violence generally. For myself, I usually adore the women in my gyms, because there is less coquetry and more directness. Twice though, I've had another woman try and throw me under the bus to be the "favorite student" with the male coach - that's fun lol. So I am just searching for thoughts and impressions. I actually hate generalizations and think the cloud of socialization is so powerful (habitus) in developing gender roles that its difficult to find what is real and what is just driven by social needs, but all, in the end are real so I am just trying to trace patterns. Thanks.

I’d be curious to hear from the coaches in particular how they see differences in male & female athletes, and also what are the main similarities. I ask this here rather than Sherdog or Reddit cause I’m not begging for an earful of sexism, more an open field of experience & opinion from both men & women & also non-binary people if you’re here.

Yes I have seen you posting about it and bought it. Expensive! But nerdtastic. Thank you for putting up screenshots.

I 100% agree. Ah shit I did that wrong. I was replying to Oliver about Rogan v Cruz.

I'll get it. btw I hear a decent amount of shit talk of Tae Kwon do to the effect that its too unreal from the Tang soo do people lol. EVERYONE DOES IT.

I love that idea of a compressed files and I don't disagree that much of karate has taken a turn towards the unreal. Part of it is I don't really like the word "karate". Seems important to be precise. I also don't think being original (Okinawan) necessarily makes things right. I am not always looking for the oldest thing although that is also of interest, just not definitive. I tell you what Kevin, I was in tears when it became clear that for family reasons I was going to have to add in Korean Tang soo do (a precursor to Tae Kwon do, heavier roundhouses, many other differences but still a 20th century hybrid like so many). I just absolutely hated it but I have to do it (my mentally ill daughter is trying to get back to her practice and she needs to see a beginner, me, for courage). I am learning some brutal things (so many approaches to yanking off the testicles lol), and because my teacher knows I prefer Muay Thai, he is at pains to explain the real purpose in different movements. The single blow thing, for example, is obviously ridiculous so Tang soo do also teaches nasty little hand and wrist locks as a sort of backup in case your opening salvo fails on the street. But this is not a defense of karate. Go ahead. Chop at it. I love that video! Two smart guys making solid arguments for the necessity of "kata" or forms. Makes sense. I didn't know Okinawan was so grappling based. Style I hate is Shotokan. So still, so low. Seems just fucking pretentious. That is probably similar to peoples' reactions to flying shit. I have shot thousands of frames of different styles of karate at tournaments so I'm somewhat aware of the variety. But my heart and soul are with Muay Thai, as much as they can be from this country.

Both I guess :). Everybody does it. Substantive analysis like you do is valid. But shit talk generally, knee jerk stuff is something I try to be careful with, just for myself. I try to maintain 100% curiosity all the time, though critique is part of that. Doesn’t apply to anyone else so I’m gonna drop it.

What a stud. But haha I’m not the spinning aficionado. I just don’t like all the karate shit talk but of course I understand spectacular showy stuff breeds greedy awkward noobs. I also would like to slap Joe Rogan (cause that’s more humiliating than a spinning kick). Thank you I’m touched!!

Teep all day.

From a coach perspective, makes all the sense. From a student & fan perspective I wish just once in a while people (ok online people) could just stop & appreciate the athleticism it takes to do what Daniels does (mind you, I did enjoy watching his damn long karate leg get chopped before he learned to defend the low kick mua haha Muay Thai).. I don’t know why it gets to me but it’s like an mma attitude of (bear voice) “it’s not REAL fighting”. In a sense that’s true since many spinning techniques, tornado kicks & what have you come from point sparring, but when it works (atop rock solid fundamentals as you say), can’t we bow down for once? It’s a futile, silly effort of mine I know (change online culture Bwa haha). And of course, as you are a coach, I understand the meme. Then there is this, at 59 seconds. Cause like ya say, when you have the basics & way more, why the f*ck not?!

That makes sense. Must be annoying!