Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu

I wish we could have these kinds of conversations! (This mode of analysis, instinctively, feels far from Thai conceptualization about things, to me.) I would point out, also interestingly enough, that even though it is true that much of Muay Thai was transmitted through wat education, the State formalization of Buddhism that began with the turn of the 20th century, and extended through the time of the article above, did work to really narrow the diversity of Thai Buddhism (and likely Muay Thai) in that process. As King Chulalongkorn, for instance, named (and therefore ostensibly created the "schools" of Muay Boran in 1910, this has been seen by historians as an attempt to actually secularize Muay Thai in the country, by putting under State camp auspices. These two dates in our Modernization of Muay Thai bring this forward: The Modernization of Muay Thai - a timeline It would be super interesting to know what animistic, magical practices were preserved throughout the century, and the wat pedagogy of Muay Thai itself, and how much the two came together if at all.

This to me is really unclear...or, maybe involves multiple forces at work. Most of the arguments regarding the State and Buddhism in Thailand, including those in this article, work along the lines of seeing the systematic institutionalization of Buddhism, organized around Bangkok power, as distinctly modernist. A homogenization of belief and practice, and one could imagine that these trends toward homogenization that work against the variety and detail of "femeu" Muay Thai are rooted in that very homogenizing, modernist project. Erasing differences, and localization. These forces, if I'm not mistaken, also worked against the forest tradition you are practiced in, and against some of the animist traditions that lay beneath Buddhism in the country. This is to say that Buddhism and State power seem like they are possibly quite at work in rooting these same commercializing, globalizing forces that currently are degrading Muay Thai. On the other hand, I would totally agree that the "aggro" fighting of international kickboxing and MMA, that aesthetic, is powerfully opposed to the Buddhistic philosophy that grounds Muay Thai in what it is. It really boils down to just "what" is the source of femeu diversity and development? Is it the proliferation of de-centralized locations of power and knowledge, a kind of Garden of Eden, Amazon Rain Forest of ecosystems of fighting, village by village, festival by festival? I see that as an attractive thought. If so, then perhaps Buddhism has had a kind of push-pull effect on that art. Maybe it is worth while drawing comparisons between magico-practices of spiritual belief and femeu fighting diversity, both in terms of State Buddhism and capitalism/consumerism? I say this all in appreciation of your thoughts.

Construction of Wat Phra Sri Mahathat Woramahawihan, the centerpiece of Prime Minister Phibunsongkhram's Spiritual Identity project, began on 20 March 1941 in commemoration of the government victory over the Boworadet rebellion in 1933. The foundation stone of Rajadamnern stadium was laid first, on March 1st of that same year.

Reading a really good essay on how the very National identity of Thailand, a modern conception born out of engagements with the colonial West, was established by creating 4 spiritual centers geographically spread across the country. Read that here: National_Identity_and_the_Geo_Soul_Spiri.pdf National Identity and the Geo-Soul: Spiritually Mapping Siam It traces the logic of the establishment of 4 spiritual centers by the anti-Royalist spirit of Prime Minister Phibunsongkhram, creating a constellation wats that helped define the national borders of the country. Saplings of the original Bodhi Tree of the Buddha's meditation were planted at each of these wats, in the early 1940s. What is interesting to me is that as Phibunsongkhram was carving out a new national identity, it was also in these years that Rajadamnern was being built. And, in these years as well that Phibunsongkhram and magazines celebrating Muay Thai started lauding a new kind of hero, every-men like the much feared Suk. The point being, just as the foundations of the Spiritual conception of a "whole" Thailand was being developed, a people's Muay Thai, along with the first National stadium, also was developed. When people think about what Muay Thai means to the identity of Thailand itself, it was poured into the foundation from the very beginning.

So awesome to see this. I love when people share their person experiences of study...and their CATS! too. I agree, it's a seriously underrated session in the Library. There is a framework for an entire fight philosophy in that session.

Can you find out the cost of a month of 1on1's plus hotel, with Sagat. It would be great to know. Is there a package price?

Thanks, that is a very cool response. As much as I often feel that hyper-marketed forms of combat sports like MMA & kickboxing are destructive forces to traditional views of dominance that are still reflected in Thailand's Muay Thai, there are also stories such as yours, where the genuine attempt to weave together the golden threads of authenticity in all of them, even or especially as a judge, is full of a great hope that the Muay Thai of Thailand can help combat sports in general, transcend the lower common denominators that sometimes help fighting sports highly successful in the marketplace. Very cool. The spear and the bouquet.

We've seen so many great trainers, he is kind of unparalleled in how and what he teaches, Thanks for sharing your experiences! He is a special Muay Thai mind.

A lot of people have a kind of fantasy of the "go to a real Thai gym in the middle of nowhere, be forced to train really hard, immerse yourself in that Thai way, maybe have a fight", is it that kind of gym, would you say? Would they have a positive experience, even if it isn't exactly what they were looking for?

That is awesome! Can you give the email address you worked though, how much it was, and what the payment process was?

Cool little review! I like it.

Additional study material, unpacking the historical development of the Noir aesthetic, if anyone wants to follow along: source, download the entire paper

I'm sure you googled around, but I'm doing so as well for my own interest. Ran into this timeline: I'm sure this extended averages are tilted by the higher grade concussions, but it is worth thinking about what standard one wants to use for return. How many symptom-free days before returning to the gym? And being ready for symptoms to possibly persist longer than expected.

That's a lot of things you'd like to know about! But good to be hungry. The best overall approach to understanding the context of some of these beliefs is this book: The Lovelorn Ghost and the Magical Monk: Practicing Buddhism in Modern Thailand

From Googling about several sources suggest that the benefits may come from the idea that ketone energy requires less chemical steps, than the burning of glucose, some of that making it a favored choice during strain. But yes Alzheimer's too. I imagine also that autophagy, clearing out damaged cells, may also help.

Sylvie and I have really thought about these things, and in fact recently have been measuring an injury. This the problem, it's very difficult to tell if there is a mild concussion. I mean, if you have nearly zero of the symptoms (fogginess, poor or too much sleep, in ability to concentrate, and the other physical ones you've surely searched), that is a super good sign, but it doesn't mean that there is no brain injury. Because of what you do is prone to mild brain trauma our thought has been: just be super careful and conservative that it is healed. From our Google about 7-10 days, with zero symptoms towards the end, is the broad safe advisement for a mild concussion. The problem with brain injury, even mild injury, is that it makes you more prone to more brain injury. And what you do is full of lots and lots of mild impacts. Even if you aren't sparring or directly getting hit in the head, really vigorous bagwork can be somewhat rocking. You don't want to get on a track where you can't do what you love because a brain injury groove has been worn. We've also paid attention to some research that suggests that a ketogenic diet can be beneficial to brain repair, so being even more super strict against carbs is something we've moved to, and adding Omega 3 fats (fish oil) which also has reported benefits. Who knows with these studies and suggestions, but in a career and circumstance which may produce mild, undetectable but repeated injury, it might be best to be on the safe side. So sorry you got hurt!

The challenge to performance is a saying that Jackie Chan once used to describe the "fake" martial arts of some actors in action films. "Brocade leg, flower fist." Your performance is pretty, but there is no power to it, no reality to it, it is just show. In terms of Phra Pirap, too much bouquet, not enough spear. If Samart didn't have stunning power, or tremendously potent timing, his displays of boredom in the ring would have been false, a check written he could not cash. Too much bouquet. What characterizes so much of the beauty of Muay Thai that enthralls westerns is how it is so beautiful, so performed, yet so viscerally powerful, and effective on the whole. Both the bouquet and the spear.

If you feint. You are performing. If you have rhythm. You are performing. If you do not flinch when hit. You are performing.

a photo of statue of Phra Pirap, taken and stylized by Sylvie:

I am not versed in BJJ or its history and development, but I am drawn to the debate between Gi and No Gi training. Why train in a Gi, when (in MMA) you will have no Gi? Not to dive into this, invested people have their memorized arguments for one or the other. But what is interesting is the ways in which proponents of the Gi suggest that the Gi forces you to develop techniques and principles (on the broad scale: using less explosive strength, practicing more patience) that one would otherwise have a harder time developing. I suggest that the artifice of Thai Muay Thai, classically, is something like that. It is a kind of scaffolding that encourages the development of skills and tempos that, when they reach the highest levels, become extremely effective, even if the scaffolding is no longer there. It is a composite training. This is the value of performance.

I've written before about my theory that Phra Pirap arguably is the god of Muay Thai. There is no such officially designated god, but there is no doubt to me that this deity figure powerfully combines the elements that distinguish Muay Thai from many contemporary forms of combat sport fighting, and is in that way a protector for a call to preserve those precious elements that may very well be lost to globalizing modernity. What I wrote a few years ago: "There is a small holy statuette that sits on a mantel in our apartment. It is a bronze-looking figure of a man, a warrior, posed with a spear pointed upward at a diagonal across his body, and with the other hand near the spearpoint he holds a bouquet of green. His face is that of a demon. His body that of an athlete. He is a little known god, much debated in niche circles, Phra Pirap. He as I understand it is a kind of god of war and battle, but mostly is known as the god of dance, the one that leads the arts. At his left hand come together both the spear point and the bouquet. This the unfathomable combination of what makes up Muay Thai in Thailand. For us in the west there is a fundamental division in how we parse the world. There is the "real" and the "unreal". In Thailand these two things come together to braid into something else. People looking at fights want to say "that's a fake fight!" or "that's a 'real' fight!". What makes them real or unreal are supposedly the intention of the actors. But because Muay Thai is an art, and not only a sport, these things come together. It is ultimately both dance and violence. The reason for this is timing. Phra Pirap happens also to be the god of timing. Of finding the perfect moment. Nietzche made a big deal of this in Beyond Good and Evil. In Greek there are two important fundamental kinds of Time. Chronos is circular time, the time of the seasons. Kairos is the time of the moment, the perfect moment to act. Kairos makes an incision in Chronos. Phra Pirap is the god of Kairos. This is why he is god of the dance. This is why the Muay Thai of Thailand is both real and unreal. It carries the power of artifice into the world of the "real" of violence, to steer it. It recognizes the moment of change, and therefore may spend much of its time in the realm of the fake, the performed. It is steering the cooling schedule of the steel, when all the molecules are afloat and changing their positions. In the west we only think of linear time. For us the "real" of fighting is merely the degree of "heat" in a fight, and the application of force of one body against other bodies. In Muay Thai, for Phra Pirap, it is the point in the circle when real change can happen, it is the art of taking hold of that change and shaping it to a valued outcome. It is where the spearpoint and the bouquet come together." - original context here Some years on I reflect back upon how much I've come to believe this. It's why Muay Thai krus will urge you over and over "timing", "timing", "timing". Or, why legends will praise Samart's genius as found in his "eyes". The god itself appears to be a syncretic fusion of two gods, one related to the destructive powers of Shiva (hence the spear, perhaps), an emanation of Shiva, the other is the presiding god of Dance and Music, of performance. One of the conundrums that westerners face when trying to really delve into the intensity of Thai Muay Thai is how much the aesthetics of scoring in face relate to performing postures, senses of timing, playing narrative themes in a round or across rounds. These are the art of the sport. We in the west, especially the era of MMA's demystification of Kung-Fu and Karate bullshido, versions, experience the term "art" much in the vain of artifice. Something unreal. Something just surface. What traditional ring Muay Thai embodied though, I believe, are the affective potentials of performance, the unconscious fathoms of what a fighter can draw out far, far beyond "perfect" technique, or practices patterns. This, I sense, is the power of where Phra Pirap reigns.

We've heard from different people with varying success in trying to order the book through email from them (some complaining that there was no response). But I suspect that they have improved their process over the last couple of years since we first brought this book to everyone's attention. If it arrives safely please update us so everyone can know!

If you'd like to support our work on the behalf of the memory of legends, and the preservation of their techniques, consider becoming a patron: https://www.patreon.com/sylviemuay