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First of all, apologies for bringing Myanmar traditional boxing (Lethwei) into this but as far as I understand muay boran (and other fighting styles in the region) originates from Lethwei. I feel there are some people who want to create an impression of animosity between lethwei and muay thai, but I just experience it as two beautiful versions of the same thing. Anyhow, one of my teachers sent me this old photo from his home in Kachin State, northern Myanmar and one of the most active armed conflict zones. And I wanted to share just to remind foreigners who come to fight in Thailand or Cambodia or Myanmar what cultures they are actually interacting with and where your trainers actually come from. My teacher in the photo is a sweet, friendly guy in his 20s. He works at three different gyms in Yangon that focus martial arts fitness and he leads his classes with enthusiasm and smiles. He sleeps at the gym where I'm training. Regardless of skill level he'll find and push you beyond your boundaries. He has had about 30-40 fights and is currently recovering from a nasty knee injury and subsequent surgery, waiting to be able to fight again. He's also waiting for an invitation and visa to go teach at a western gym in a western country. To prep for the visa process he goes to English school in his free time. His biggest dream is to become a One Championship fighter. And he keeps his body fit in the meantime. This photo simply got to me. It's just such a harsh reminder of what it means to really want it. The endless hours you put in that no one is there to see. And it, as so many times before, painfully reminded me of how spoiled I am as a foreigner when trying to choose the most suitable gym for me, or complaining about pad holders style, or not getting fights, or the whatever. And the caption I was given with the photo also summarizes the attitude so well: "Now ok before ok you know?"

This is one of the dilemmas of what we are thinking about. Muay Thai is actually dying off, in a way, in Thailand. It no longer is the case where we can just insulate, and not worry about whatever versions of Muay Thai are out there in the world because Muay Thai is safe and sound in Thailand, thriving. Like you say, MAX, Superchamp, or whatever other hybrid show in the country are powerfully undermining and in fact erasing much of what Muay Thai is, in Thailand. There seems to be some sense in which non-Thais might play an important role in actually preserve Muay Thai, as passionately interesting outsiders...simply because they care about Muay Thai, in a historical sense, while the Thai marketplace really doesn't. It's westerners who attend these large Muay Boran, or Nai Khanomtom Day respect events (whatever we make of them), not Thais. The question is: What role do westerners, or just non-Thais, have in preserving Muay Thai...and are their modes of popularity that could work towards its care.

I love Muay Thai and i would love it if that became worldwide known sport, but at the same time i think if it would be known more rules would change 100%. Scoring would prob become same as in Kickboxing, balance wouldn't matter that much and i think overall Muay Thai would change...i mean even when you watch max muay thai, It's Muay Thai, but it's not the same . I wouldn't like Muay Thai to change even more and it def would , but i wouldn't want Muay Thai to disapear either... Plenty of things to think about to be honest.

Popping in to update some of the data, as I've been following this for 5 years now. BJJ vs Muay Thai World Wide, holding steady since BJJ surpassed Muay Thai in the Winter of 2018 In the United States, the separation is holding The argument goes that BJJ is a pretty interesting sport comparison as both it and Muay Thai are niche fighting disciplines parasitic on the UFC and MMA in general, which both require specialized knowledge with some sense of cultural celebration of origin.

These are all beautiful things. I only took issue with the assumed obviousness by which Lethwei claimed superiority and antecedence to Muay Thai. These things don't seem obvious to me at all, and kind of loaded questions. I do seriously appreciate how firmly you are on the ground on this, how close to the sport and training that you are, and that you took the effort to post such a very cool photo and message. It's so cool that you are throwing yourself into Lethwei, and experiencing it first hand. No need to edit at all! Discussion is good. I find much of the Lethwei messaging problematic on some of the levels I've mentioned, and kind of push back on it when I can, only because nobody seems to be doing so, and it feels important. *I only edited your title because we try to have titles that capture the main subjects under discussion, it helps people know what's in a post, so I added a few keywords.

All this is to say, the beautiful story of your trainer is just that, real human beauty. Awesome that you shared it. Such real stuff. But some of the couching of the story, in the larger framework of Lethwei vs Muay Thai for me really is missing some important aspects.

I don't really Google these things, but to be honest much of this "purer" than Muay Thai story seems very ideological, the attempt to lay claim to some forms of supremacy over the Muay Thai of Thailand. First is the claim that it is more brutal (ok, they allow headbutts or KO recoveries, not something you could probably allow in a country with 50,000 fights a year like Thailand), second the claim that is older in some way (I've never really seen an historical evidence that it is the origin), and I can't really take what LeDuc says seriously. He is a pretty much made up media brand image, to be honest about it. I love how successful he is at what he's done, but he really was a Tiger Muay Thai reality show winner before becoming the best Lethwei fighter in the world not long after, and spokesperson for the sport. A more serious question, at least for me, is how much Lethwei is being used as a political tool, perhaps a part of a Sportswashing effort in a country facing some pretty serious human rights violations. It seems clear that LeDuc is being supplemented by the Myanmar government, I mean, his wedding was broadcast on National TV apparently. He's basically a political figure, making political points, but in ways that we from the west have almost no sensitivity toward. I'm not saying that Muay Thai is not used politically in Thailand, it definitely IS, and has been for a century if not longer, but because of that ideological dimension we probably should step carefully regarding a historic foe claiming superiority over the very same politicized element. I don't really know where this claim flows from. The 2nd oldest historical evidence of Muay Thai is the fabled story of Nai Khanom Tom (late 18th century), in a handful of verse lines in an epic poem, telling of how - I'm sure you know the story - he cleaned up against a host of the best Burmese fighters. I'm pretty sure, and it's been a while since I read the source material translation, this story is from a Burmese epic, told by the Burmese, not the Thai. It would seem weird to think that Lethwei, historically, somehow supersedes Muay Thai in a fundamentally important way. But...I definitely would be open to any historical evidence.

There is a seriously long, as in centuries long, political animosity between these two countries, intense hatred, and the symbolism of Muay Thai as a national identity and pride plays a really important part of this. It isn't just "some people", its generations of belief. Where do you get this story of origin, I'm curious? My suspicion is that claims like this tend to be ideological in basis.

Pacquiao has been hit in the face a million times. Conversely, he was KOd by a body punch ONCE and completely revamped his abdominal training in order to avoid that ever happening again. Body strikes suck. I totally get the Thai focus on balance. Once I became aware of it, this awareness made it very hard for me to watch a lot of western fighting, across all disciplines. Fighters are terribly off-balance during, before and after strikes. Imagine a gymnast landing on her ass or a diver belly-flopping into the water. That's what it looks like. Our eyes aren't looking for it, so a lot of western fans don't see it. But once you see it, you can never "un-see" it. It's pretty bad.

I quit drinking several years ago, except for once or twice a year when I have one or two. A few things happened. First, I feel so, so much better and my sleep got so, SO much better. I actually feel less stressed than I did before when I drank to relax. And my friends and family who drink started being weird about it. I don’t try to convert people but it seems as though they take it that way when I turn down a drink. My mom hasn’t seen me with any type of alcohol for probably 5 years but still tries to get me to drink during the holidays. The culture around alcohol is strange. Well, at least in the US which is the only place I can speak with any authority. Lol

This is a somewhat complicated question in that, especially in Thailand, there's a moral component to alcohol consumption that will be included in how it's viewed by your gym. Trainers who drink aren't viewed as super dependable by those who don't, students who drink are socially engaging with those trainers, but will also be dismissed in some ways by those in the gym who don't. If you're showing up and working hard, you'll be appreciated for that. If you're tired and drained - even if it's occasional - and it's known that the reason behind it is that you were out drinking, you'll be judged for that in addition to what you'd be chastised for if you were just having a "bad" day. I'm in the same school as Madeline, where I just can't afford feeling shittier than I would if it were simply a rough night of sleep or being tired from the work I'm already doing. So, I abstain for the same reasons I don't eat sugar or stay up too late to watch Netflix or whatever else. If it's compromising my training, it goes. But people have different goals and different motivations. The 5AM runs make me a total asshole for the day and I still go do those, so we all make compromises, hahaha.