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I think it's totally great to be offering support, but maybe, because Timothy is brave enough to be sharing video which will record things he feels are failures, by which we all can learn, it's best to not be giving too much "advice support" from the crowd. These kinds of comments are super well-meaning, but they very often don't help someone who already knows they aren't hitting the mark they want to hit, and putting it out there. Very few people post video of development. Sylvie gets lots of these on YouTube. We are all cheering Timothy on. Hey, just my two cents coming from my own perspective.

I like to do this too. Really I think it is good advice for any sparring session, always go in with the intention to work on something specific. I like to talk with my partner during the break too and let them know what they are doing well or ask how they are doing something specific that will teach me a little bit more about their style. I think that communication builds us all to be better fighters and it creates a social aspect to the gym.

I completely agree with this. The golden rule we have in sparring is "Leave your ego at the door". You shouldn't be trying to kill eachother, it's just not what sparring is for. At times when it seems people are going too hard, our instructor makes us take shin guards off. It's amazing how quick people calm down then. When it comes to sparring people who I know are better than me, or are known to be aggressive / pressure sparrers (if that's a word), I just think of one thing I want to achieve out of the round. Whether it be to land a combination we have drilled, or just land a knee. Something simple which I want to work on. From that point on, I've narrowed the room for overthinking and getting flustered, and can simply concentrate on trying to relax, and look for openings. Then, if it's going well, I can then start trying to make openings, and build from there. It's a lot easier to build from a muted canvas than it is to turn down the noise from having so many options from the offset.

Hey, totally. I run into it all the time myself! I want to encourage and support, but then don't even know what is helpful. But yes, the project is above and beyond, and Tim is incredible for diving in. Nobody really posts this kind of raw footage and comment. Making history.

Thank you for your comments, notes and encouragement! I told the General yesterday, maybe in a few thousand reps all I'll get one correct. Then I'll need another thousand before the next one comes. I'm not looking to just get it right, I want to get to a point where I can't do it wrong.

For Burklerk this is really only a counter kick to the standing leg, Kenshin did an edit:

1. Breath 2. Use the waist 3. Transfer weight The General says this is what he must get me to do before I go or if I am going to teach effectively. These task are deceptively difficult, especially the breathing. It’s not that these are new concepts to me; it’s the way in which the General ask you to use and do them. There is a beautiful subtlety to the way he does them which is obviously the product of how long he as been doing it. 1. Breathing - I’m very aware of my breathing. I thought I did it quite well. There are breathing exercises I preform with some regularity and I when I roll jiujitsu I take a lot of pride in using my breath effetely. However, the General’s specific breathing strategy is proving to be tricky. The general emphasizes his breaths at almost opposite points then I’m used to. They’re shorter and the exhales come on the recoil of the punch - rather than at the impact of the strike. 2. Use the waist - If anything the General asks me to do that seems “new”, it’s the way he uses his waist. I’ve understood and even taught my own students the importance of turning the hips during a kick or punch, but I’ve always started this movement from the feet. The feet push through the ground first and the hips turn second. Rather, the General says the power comes from the waist (and the transfer of weight). During our lesson today, it was noted that often it’s the legs or the arms which turn the waist, which is not good according to the General. Rather the waist moves first, and then the arms and legs will follow. 3. Transfer weight - This is by far the most beautiful thing the General does. There is an effortless transfer in his body weight as he strikes. The only other shift in body weight I can compare it to, is ballet. I took ballet a few years ago, and it’s by far one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. There is no jerk or dramatic shift as the General moves. The only indication is a slight lift on his heals. It’s not a push off the ground like I’m used to. It’s a shift of his weight from one leg to the other. The General likes to say, “it’s the same, but different”. He usually prefaces with asking me if I know what he showing me. This is my least favorite question, in any art. I don’t think I KNOW anything. I’ve seen a lot, and I’ve practiced a lot, but knowing is something different. So when the General ask me if I know something, I try to respond with something like, “similar”. The General will smile and say, “it’s the same, but different”. This phrase is bigger than just our training, it actually encompasses my outlook on this trip. I’ve been to a few places. All over California, a tour through Europe, and now Bangkok of course. There are elements to each city that are always similar. There is crime, there are high rises, there is good food and bad; and so on and so forth. But each city has it’s own style, its thing which makes it unique. Bangkok is the same as any other city I’ve been to, BUT absolutely different (in the best possible way). Lertrit is the martial manifestation of Bangkok, if you will. It can look just like sport Muay Thai, but it is very different. There are subtleties which go almost unnoticed if they aren’t pointed out. But they make the world of difference. Thank you, thank you, thank you to everyone offering their support and encouragement! tm

With IFMA Worlds just a few months away, I've been thinking about the growth and proliferation of muay thai in America. It seems that for some time now, American muay thai has been perceived as behind the rest of the world. Even when compared to our neighbor to the north, Canada, I was always informed that we were just a step behind. However, it seems that the efforts of the USMF have really been proactively pushing for recognition by the USOC as well as creating more awareness, unification, and opportunity at the regional, state, national and international levels. Considering that the roundtable has a lot of international members, I'm curious what YOUR national muay thai scene is like. How popular is muay thai in your country among the general public? Is there a lot of government support and subsidy for travel and training for international tournaments like IFMA? Are there significant efforts on youth development? Is muay thai a potential profession in your country, or is it more of a passionate pursuit? Is there a large media presence with fights on television? How "Thai" is your country's muay thai (technique, scoring, philosophical approach)? Feel free to go beyond the questions, or add your own. I just listed those as a starting point.

After re-watching the videos a couple of times I cannot say enough how much of this we are doing and how much of it doesn't really shine through in the videos! There are so many tiny adjustments that we are both having to make that are completely contrary to things we have been training for years. Literally everything from balance points, wrist alignment, hand rotation, weight transfer/foot rotation, rhythm of breathing, stopping points of a strike, and more are completely reversed from everything I have been taught over the last few years. I spent nearly the entire first day just trying to walk in a straight line correctly while breathing lol. It is a lot to focus on at one time. I've been training out here for a few years and never had to focus on so many aspects at one time. On top of that there is a bit of the "trying to drink from a fire-hose" effect going on just from the amount of technique we have been shown (at least for me personally) since General Tunkawom is trying to show Tim as much as possible in three weeks. The General's aide has come in a few times to watch and has mentioned how quickly General Tunkawom is moving us through different techniques. It is insanely mentally exhausting even though it is a total blast! Kevin has talked a few times about "hacking" Muay Thai, and to be honest and completely shameless, I'm pretty good at that lol. This is totally different though. There is no way to hack this, it is SOOOO much more precise than any of the stadium fighting styles. Exact and measured repetition of the fundamentals is the only way to make progress. That is part of the mentality of the style though. If you overextend or get off balance in the ring, you risk losing by KO. If you do that in actual hand to hand combat which this style is designed for, you are going home in a bag. Everything must be perfect EVERY time. Also, just for future, I don't mind if anyone comments on my technique (maybe PM me so we'll keep things from getting clusterfucked on the main forum). I like to analyze that kind of stuff. Fifty percent chance that I will either listen objectively or I'll tell you to shut your face lol. Either way though, I'll definitely take a look oftentimes people catch stuff that I don't and maybe it will help nail down some of the finer points of this style through discussion.

Thanks for the feedback! I have mainly been kickboxing, so low kicks are a major part of training. It got me wondering what the OG's in Thailand have to say about them. Keep up the good work!

^^^ This is actually very similar to how Dedduang throws his leg kick as well. He puts the rear shoulder over the front leg a little more I think (maybe it is this angle though) and it makes an excellent chopping motion that really sucks to get kicked by.

Lowkicks do not score highly in Muay Thai in Thailand. They, I think, are considered low-hanging fruit, and have maybe a kind of slight stigma to them? Middle kicks on the other hand score very highly, as they are difficult to pull off, involve tracking your opponent's opponent's open side and passing through their check defense, as well as having a higher degree of difficulty in terms of balance. Mid-kicks are really the bread and butter of Thailand Muay Thai, one could say. You need to be able to stop them, and deliver them. (Ha! as I write this I see Sylvie said much of the same.) You see lowkicks used by Kongsamut in the Library, combined with a punching attack that I really liked, good for shorter fighters: #43 Kongsamut Sor. Thanikul - Muay Mat Style (74 min) watch it here And then there is also Burklerk's very cool mixed-stance cut kick which he teaches in his session (a slow motion video of which we shot, below):

Because middle kicks score highly, low kicks don't score much at all unless you do visible damage or are off-balancing your opponent. Rambaa (in the Library) has amazing low kicks. He jumps on them, so they're super nasty and come at a chopping angle. He also stings the inside of the leg, just to annoy the opponent a lot, but it hurts after only one or two. I've had trouble walking after sessions with him for that reason.

So cool that you put this up! Will throw this in there from the early 2000s for those that don't know about Lanna history, Brave Dave's documentary: This is all well, well before Sylvie arrived, before she ever heard of Lanna. It was a transformative gym that had a huge impact on the history of westerners in Muay Thai in Thailand.

I love your write up. Something that I see when I watch his waist is how his knees bend. They don't bend like a soccer or tennis player, they don't even bend like any other martial arts that I've seen, but they bend like a Golf swing. Keep in mind, I've never played golf in my life and I'm not truly adroit at watching it, but the twist, to me, looks like golf. The first thing I noted when walking into the room yesterday and sitting behind you was your breathing. I smiled and pointed it out to the General, I said, "he remembers to breathe... not like me." Even being able to hear it is more "right" than you can imagine. But your observation of the subtle differences means you do, actually, know what he's talking about more than you might give yourself credit for. I reckon his question to you about whether you know what he's talking about is actually if you know where to look, or what aspect he's picking on. I watch my trainer Kru Nu show someone a punch and they stare at his fist. It makes no sense. They're not looking anywhere near where the important part is. His balance is just like he's from another planet. He never, ever draws outside the lines, so to speak. He never breaks his frame. He never leans or bends. I thought Sagat had pretty incredible ability for maximum efficiency out of minimum movement... but the General even complained that Sagat couldn't do his uppercut right. Hahahaha.

Another beautiful shot of the General. The arc and power of his punches are like nothing else in Thailand that I've seen. Short, explosive.

We visited the General and Timothy today to drop off a tripod and a phone for hotspotting (with the help of our patrons). A photo taken of the General demonstrating, with Timothy looking on:

Timothy's vlog #1 - First Day, Arrival If you'd like to follow this thread you can click follow at the top and get alerts when Timothy posts.

[admin edit: some of the photos in this thread were lost due to a probable attack on our website, unfortunately. We recovered most of the thread. Thank you to everyone who supported us through this.] Hello all. My name is Tim. I live in California and in a few days I’ll be leaving for Bangkok, Thailand to train Muay Thai Lertrit under the guidance of General Tunwakom. I contacted Sylvie some months ago about her participating in interviews for my masters thesis. I ended up spending hours talking with her husband Kevin. The next thing I know, I’m buying a ticket to Thailand. When Kevin proposed I come to Thailand to train with General Tunwakom, I was somewhat skeptical about the proposition coming to fruition, let alone the project turning into a full feature on their websites and media channels. But they made it happen for me. I am so very thankful for the faith both Kevin and Sylvie have in me and the opportunity they have presented me with. Thank you, thank you, thank you to both of them! I started training martial arts at age 17 and it’s been an all consuming venture since. I’ve trained in various disciplines of boxing as well as Brazilian Jiujitsu, and Kung Fu. Currently I’m a Jiujitsu blue belt in the Carlson Gracie organization and I hold a 7º black belt in Kung Fu San Soo. I’m not a fighter by any means however. Fighting as never been an interest of mine. I just like moving. Despite my recent academic achievements, I had an incredibly difficult time in school - I didn’t learn to read until the 6th grade and spent most mornings of my youth throwing heavy objects at my mother in an attempt to avoiding going to school. I sought refuge in sport. I've never been a natural athlete though, I had to write L and R on my shoes for during my first year of high school American football to know which direction to move (left or right), but moving my body was mediative and made me feel like I was a person. It’s what I love about martial arts - the meditative repetition of learning something, not until you get it right, but until you can’t do it wrong. I’ve learned more about my self and the world in the hours spent learning a punch or kick than doing anything else. It was my faith in martial arts which took me back to school. After achieving my black belt I thought: if I could apply half of the effort I put into getting my black belt into school, then it would be no problem. It was true. I always found away to make school about the things that interested me - food, skateboarding and of course martial arts. My master thesis seeks to blend theoretical sociology with martial arts. Which brought me to Kevin and Sylvie. They have presented me with this opportunity I feel is much bigger than me just traveling and training. I don’t know how to process the whole thing. Sitting here trying to articulate my thoughts has been has difficult has writing my thesis. I have all sorts of anxieties and fears about traveling and my skills as a martial artist. What if I miss my flight? What if my kicks are really bad? What if I say something dumb on video!? But anymore, embracing the things that make me anxious, embracing the things I’m afraid of are my favorite things. They make me better as a person. I’ll need to plan well so I don’t miss my flight. If my kicks are bad, I’ll throw 1,000 more. If I say something dumb, I’ve already said a million dumb things, I’ll try better. I expect I’ll be uncomfortable and cry at least once. I also expect I’ll learn much more than Muay Thai. I hope to make all my instructors proud, both the ones who have taught me to punch and kick as well as the ones who taught me to think and write. I hope I have fun and give the General peace of mind that he’s teaching the right student. Thank you, thank you, thank you to all who will take the time to read this and comment back. More to come. tm

Yeah they are definitely known for it and some of the best in the business. I also feel you about the scar tissue in the leg from low kicks. The worst.

I forgot about Kru Dam, he's one of the best in the business. Hahaha I actually specifically avoided fighting Pond last year at Max because I didn't want to get leg kicked to death again (I got leg kicked to death about 4 months prior to that and still have scar tissue leftover in my leg from last February lol). That whole camp has nasty leg kicks thanks to Kru Dam!

Kru Dam from Sitmonchai also has a similar way of throwing and teaching his low kick. I could be wrong but I thought he was in the library too, showing this very thing. If not, you can find him on social media demonstrating it.

I apologise for going a bit overboard in my responses. I'll tone them down a bit. I only mean to encourage and empower Tim to get as much out of this as possible. What he is doing is above and beyond the expectations set out by this project, and he is doing an amazing job.

I trained in Lanna from 95 to 98 off and on. I thought someone may be interested in what Lanna first looked like. This was right after Andy (RIP) opened the gym (if I recall he was involved with another gym in the city "Joe's Gym", I don't remember the name). As for the Thai's there, Khom (see pic) RIP, and Taywin were doing most of the training. Kem and Mike were the main Thai fighters and Boon was maybe 12? I remember his first fight. So here's a couple pics of that era.

Here's Taywin with Pom from maybe 96 or 97? Ignore all the goofy white guys.

If you watch my sessions with Chatchai, he looks at me in the mirror and stands in front of me to kind of "eyeball calibrate" my form. I stole it from him. It's totally like he's looking down a pool cue. I noticed that he's seeing where my weight is blowing out on one side or the other, if my one shoulder is higher than the other, etc. So, now I look for that kind of thing in the mirror for myself. I call it "breaking the frame" when my body leans or bends instead of the weight transferring all together. That's what I use the mirror for.

Dieselnoi's favorite fighter. He raves about him.

Yes, he's been around our filming several times, and we definitely would like to film with him. He was there at our 4 Legend's seminar just watching it all, and he's close with Dieselnoi, Karuhat, etc. He seems hesitant, maybe because he has not trained for a very long time, but we are slowly working on getting him in the Library. He has a wonderful gentlemanliness about him.

This is awesome! I remember seeing pictures of Taywin from not event that long before I met him, and he looked SO different.

Changpuek Kiatsongrit. . I'm a huge low kick fan.

Day 2: Thank you to all our patrons that are helping make this archival project possible. If you aren't a patron yet you can easily become one: patreon.com/sylviemuay If you have plans to be in Bangkok you can also train with the General, and help in your own way to preserve Muay Lertrit. You can arrange to train with the General through the World Muaythai Alliance Association.

The first batch of documenting videos are in from Timothy who is running the GoPro during his sessions. This is just going to be raw video, so that over time the methods and techniques of early teaching are at least recorded. You can look at his field notes for insight into what the General is looking for, and what Timothy is focusing on. Feel free to shoot Timothy questions in the thread too: Day 1:

I agree with what has been said above. Just to add a few things. Prices in Bangkok can be roughly compared to Cape Town, but more expensive than Pretoria for example. International food and wine being more expensive than SA, especially wine (bottle of 2 oceans is like 230 rand, insane). In Bangkok you have to factor in transportation, it is getting a bit cooler at the moment due to the rains but the humidity simply makes you sweat a lot. A single journey with the skytrain or metro is around 15 rand. 15 minute walk would cost around 10 rand if you hop on a bike taxi. Cheapest option is regular taxi, however can get a bit tricky if you do not speak any thai and do not know the city very well. The second cheapest option is Grab motorbike (Asia's Uber). I use it everyday and it works fine, I pay around 45 rand (3.50USD) for a 15-20 minute ride. If you live elsewhere, for example on an island or in the north, renting a motorbike would be a good option and usually pretty affordable. Traffic in Bangkok can be a bit hectic. All in all, best option is to live within walking distance of the gym if possible. In Thailand it is very easy to go for the budget option. Cheap food from food stalls is delicious and the best option in case you do not care about msg or sugar in your food. The same with accommodation, plenty decent options available in all price ranges and more luxurious options will also be cheaper than SA. You do not have to be too concerned with safety when choosing a place to live. Obviously, do not be stupid, but Thailand is way safer than SA. For example, the taxis do not even lock the car doors while they drive you and nothing will happen to you while waiting for the robot to turn green other than that you either get super sweaty on the back of a bike or you stress out because traffic soooooo slow during peak hours. Thailand feels very cheap, but at the same time you find yourself constantly spending money as you depend on others for daily services and food. Especially in Bangkok where you will be in and out of 7/11s most of the time. To have a more controlled budget it might be a good idea to choose a gym package with training, accommodation and food. However, this will also likely be more expensive than arrange everything while in Thailand. Training fees and a place to live will be your biggest expenses. Training 2 sessions a day will cost you around 300-500 USD/month. Regarding earning some extra money by working. I have friends who have been able to increase their travel budget by working extra as a PT or some kind of fitness instructor gig or getting free training by helping out at the gym with social media or admin or similar. But this is not an option I would count on. There's a Thai Embassy in Pretoria and their visa clerk has been very helpful to me in the past. Happy to DM her contact details in case you need.

Interested in this as well, that's a good observation. I'm really hoping that Dedduang Por Pongsawong will be able to do a session for the Muay Thai Library (keep an eye out), his low kicks are stupid hard. Lawrence Kenshin did a pretty cool video on Ernesto Hoost's low kick, you should be able to find it on YouTube. Middle kicks in my experience are typically emphasized because they score highly in Thailand, they also set up shots to the head (either punches or kicks usually) to get a KO. It's also the basis for pretty much every other kicking technique taught for stadium fighting so a middle kick is a core fundamental.

Or, simply that Noguchi who would have a long career creating some pretty suspicious fights (check out Fujiwaras 99 KOs), making his audience primed for the coming new smash sensation kickboxing, just had two show fights for PR reasons, and this was the most diplomatic way of describing those fights. The article is written as a celebration of Kickboxing, not Muay Thai, this is Black Belt magazine. The account of 1963 is a story telling how great Japanese Kickboxing had become. Clearly the author understood the event to be a PR event to make Japanese audiences satisfied. I strongly suspect that it was hardly a blip in Thailand rather than it being some kind of terible stigma (wow, we are getting so creative!).. Noguchi went and found some guys, hey ANY guys, who would come to Japan and fight some Karate dudes, and 2 of the three were not even (likely) ethnically Thai, admitted to be not very strong. Just as a note though, there really is no such thing as a 'Thai System", unless you just mean: hit a bag a bunch and had some fights. There really is no standard of a system at all. There was an incredibly broad range of talent and skill fighting in Thailand at that time. An unskilled fighter could easily find themselves fighting at Lumpinee then from what I have heard from fighters of that era.

Cost of living and training are HIGHLY variable. Thailand is a big country and different camps have different priorities (some are purely commercial, others are a little more traditional). Just living in different cities is going to skew your budget in large directions. I tell people that if you can't afford $1,200-$1,400 USD a month without including your airfare then don't bother to come long term. You can absolutely get by on less money, but life happens so it is better to be prepared. Here's what I would suggest: Figure out your exact time available to be in Thailand (i.e. 3 months/6 months/etc.), then look at the visa information available for South Africa and figure out which visa will work for you or if you will need to modify your trip time to match up with your visa (you might be able to afford a year here but your visa may only allow 3 months). Once you know how long you can legally stay in Thailand, figure out which area you would like to be in or if you would like to hop around. If you are going to be in Chiang Mai, Phuket, or Isaan I would recommend living at the camp just to make things easy for yourself though this will likely be more expensive than finding housing yourself. If you are going to be in Bangkok then either stay at the camp or find housing nearby using renthub, facebook, craigslist, etc. Food costs are going to vary depending if you eat street food, cook at home, or go to restaurants. Restaurants are typically about 3-4 times the price of street food in Bangkok and will likely be higher if you are in a touristy area like Phuket. That may be fine for a short term stay but will add up over time. You may be able to cook at home if you have a kitchen but I wouldn't count on that. Here's my minimum cost guess if you are going to be in BKK (I do not recommend this, but will lay it out as a starting point just for reference): Rent - 5,500 baht per month (you will also need 2 months deposit, 11,000 baht which you will likely never see again) Electricity (no aircon) - 1,300 baht per month + 700 baht to buy a fan Water - 300 baht per month Food (eating only 40 baht noodles, assuming you find a noodle cart nearby) - 120 baht per day x 31 days = 3,720 baht per month Drinking water (from street dispensers which require your own bottles) - 14 baht x 4 bottles for initial cost, then 4 baht a day to refill = 180 baht Transportation - 80 baht roundtrip motorbike ride to top of the street for food x 31 days = 2,480 baht (this is a very low estimate, I would honestly account for 4,000 at a bare minimum) Phone service - 499 baht a month (10gb data) Training cost - 7,000 baht a month Visa extension - 1,900 baht + 600 baht round trip taxi to immigration (assuming you don't need to have passport photos taken) Total estimate - 23,479 baht per month or $765 not including initial "start up" costs for your deposit, buying a fan, etc. Again, this is MINIMUM cost, I cannot stress that enough. I would not consider this a safe budget because things out of your control WILL come up (your gear might break/go missing, you'll get ripped off by a taxi driver, you can't find food for 40 baht, immigration will want some additional paperwork which means an extra trip, etc.) not to mention you'll be bored out of your mind after a month. Keep in mind that training cost is going to be a big part of this as well since most gyms charge 15,000-25,000 for a month of training. I have lived off 28,000 baht a month for about a year and I was getting down to less than 600 baht by the end of the month almost every time. That was living at the gym and never really going out anywhere. I currently live off approximately 40,000 baht a month and its fairly tight though comfortable (costs have gone up in Bangkok and I live in a more affluent area now). I have some additional emergency reserve and budget 5k a month for unexpected costs which I always always run through in some way or another. I could bring that cost down with some better financial tracking or if I lived in a different area, but I would consider this to be near the minimum if you are going to be training daily, taking care of your body properly as an athlete, and don't want to survive off rice and water. I hope this helps

More from the day.

The General.

Of the 4-5 times I've watched Sylvie's session with General Tunwakum, 2 things become especially clear in the Lertrit style. Breathing, and how you use your hips. I did notice the Generals feet the last couple of times I watched, and it's exactly like Sylvie's catchphrase... "So beautiful". At the same time, you can see how quintessential these points are in its effectiveness. I.e. every attack is 100% economical, and is fundamentally developed to end a fight. Can't wait to see more of this. Keep up the hard work

The general looking as focused and animated as ever. Can't wait for this series

Thank you so much for the encouragement! Please keep it coming!

Two background articles on this project: The Lone Master In Need of a Student – Saving Muay Lertrit Legacy Projects: Documenting 3 Student Weeks with General Tunwakom a video clip of General Tunwakom