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I'm a bit inspired by Coach James's recent thread about kids "fighting" (they're sparring, but James is bothered by it and in his mind used the word fighting in his title, which I think is significant), but also because I just was watching some hard sparring at my gym here in Thailand. Here's the set up. In the West, we tend to have this "holier than thou" attitude toward "technical sparring" over "hard sparring," usually accompanied by some kind of credit to how "technical and light" sparring in Thailand is. Okay, sure, I've seen very little sparring among Thais in which they're trying to hurt or knock each other's heads off (I have seen some), whereas I have seen that kind of sparring in Thailand but usually when one or both of the people participating are not-Thai. This said, when Thais spar with shinpads and gloves, it's not "light." The word for sparring in Thai len cherng, literally means to "play techniques." That's the point, and usually the spirit of it. But it's not "light" in the sense that the West tends to characterize it as for their own uses and purposes. It is more "lighthearted," but the actual power of strikes and intention is well over the 60% that I'd qualify as "going light." I was watching two sets of sparring at my gym yesterday. The first couple were both not-Thai. One guy was from India, the other from Italy. The Indian guy always goes too hard, as judged by me for what's appropriate for practice. But he's never told by the coaches to turn it down, which means they see a purpose to how hard he strikes. He also tires easily. And they never put him with someone who is close to a fight, because they know he goes this hard. The Italian guy has way more experience than the Indian guy and, while he got battered pretty good by hard leg kicks and punches in the first round and a half, he took the lead with clinch and knees to "win" the sparring - as if it were a fight, judged by others. The thing is this: the punches and kicks were 100%. The emotional stress and intention was 100%. And the guy who goes too hard, by gassing and ultimately being bettered in the end, his disappointment was 100%. All of those elements are important for learning how to fight. You have to deal with real stress. You have to deal with the consequences of coming out too hard, too early, if you don't have the stamina to keep it going. You have to learn how your power overwhelms someone and then doesn't. And likewise, the Italian guy has to learn that you can't only practice going in and having everything controlled for you. I was pretty impressed by the way he handled it, honestly, and I'm not very generous in things I like about this guy. As an important note, while nobody was told to take their power down, there were shinpads, large gloves, a referee and spectators to break the two men when things were too heated or stagnant, or to stop the time early if needed. It's still being supervised, just not interfered with very much. The next couple were two Thai boys, both about 14-16, same weight as each other but a gulf in experience. One has been training and fighting since he was 8 and surely 100+ fights, the other a handful of years with only 20 or so fights. One loves to go backwards (the experienced one) and gets yelled at for it, the other likes to come forward and strike pretty hard. They both kicked and punched less than 100% power, but not far below that. There were exchanges when the power would go up, but then it would come back down. There was never any "danger" throughout that match, unlike the other one. The biggest difference, however, was the emotional charge. There were moments when the two Thai fighters were amped up a bit, the dominance was real. But they weren't trying to hurt each other. They were trying to dominate each other and shut the other down. It wasn't like that with the non-Thais; there was an element that felt not in control with them, an emotional derailment that felt dangerous... although the Thai men who sat around the ring to watch found it incredibly entertaining. So here's my point: there is a purpose to hard sparring. There is purpose to "technical" sparring. There is an art to both, and I think both are required for the development of a fighter. But what's "light" about Thai sparring is not the power of strikes; it honestly is in the "asshole factor" of emotional energy put into the sparring itself. It's a lack of control that makes hard sparring dangerous or not worthwhile, not the power itself. Stress is an important training tool. Disappointment is a training tool. Gassing out is an important training tool. To only ever advocate for some kind of pantomime sparring robs fighters of those tools. This was Jame's original post discussion that lead to these thoughts:

I'm going to leave this here for maybe further elaboration and comment. It's compelling to think about any striking technique in these two terms, either the acceleration created (usually through the storing of energy in tendons, ligaments and muscle, which comes from fixing one's point on the ground), or through the transportation of mass (which usually involves involving a greater portion of body weight in that acceleration. There is so much in this it is tough to unpack, but advisments like those of Thai Krus that say you must step on every single technique (in the Library Kru Thailan, and Rambaa) is about mass. Discussions about the Thai Golden Kick, like on this forum, are really about the subtle techniques of creating both acceleration and mass involvement. And then you can reach all the way back into Daoist energy imaginations of Yin and Yang, connecting to Earth energy, and coming to release it as Yang, how the torsions of the body, and it's relaxation (which allows parts to connect together, energy to transmit), work to deliver the Earth through accelerations. The full span of this analysis can really be immense. Yodkhunpon Transmitting

John Wayne Parr tweeted about one of these videos the other day. It seems he's also not a fan. I totally agree with what Sylvie said about the 'asshole factor' being key in hard sparring. I've been called out on this quite a few times at my gym. I'll be sparring relatively light with someone, then they'll go a little harder, and I'll amp it up in response. Every single time this happens, I'm the one who gets told to slow down or go softer, and I tend to get pissy about that. In the moment, I often feel like it's unfair, because I was only responding with the same power that my partner hit me with. But the difference is that I'm the one getting emotional about it, and that takes it to another place. Other times, I can be sparring pretty hard with someone, but it's totally fine, as long as it still feels like 'playing'.

Body kick. Or simple punch. Body kick is like, a IV or V chord in song you like. The subdominant in music harmony. The I chord feels like any punch you want, jab, or cross. Because the move of the I going to any of the other 6 chords available is harmonically strong, so any shot after a punch is cool, but especially to the ii, IV, V or vi. Those 4 chords, or strikes, are the most musically pleasing to the ear. Body kicks feel like the subdominant, the IV, because the strongest shift of a IV is usually back to the I, (a punch) or to the V, which feels like a teep. Strongest shift of the V is resolving back to the I. That for me comes out like a lead jab then lead teep, changey changey type thing. So after a body kick, another punch tends to feel nice for me, or a teep, and then back to a punch. A I IV I or I IV V I progression. And now I'm back to the I chord, can go anywhere again. The ii and vi are the knee and elbow, but I haven't figured out which is which yet. It's definitely these two chords though, because they're unique for being the minor chords available. Darker. So the most vicious ways to fight. Maybe clinch is like, the iii chord or something. The only minor chord left.

I think it valid to critique techniques and fight values that flow out of unreal fighting styles, that is styles that develop along increasingly artificial lines usually involving scoring or packaged promotion styles, in so far as these fighting styles ALSO try to portray themselves as "real fighting". For instance, to take a non-Taekwando example, for a long while historical Karate apparently developed a real lack of combination fighting because it had adopted a philosophy (fantasy) of the death blow. Karate strikes were imagined to be dealing death blows (something inherited from older weapons martial art forms, where sword strikes really would be death blows). This lead to a very abstract and unreal development of fighting techniques, one which shunned full-contact sparring (how can you spar with "death blows"?), that took some serious and devoted branches of Karate quite far from real combat or even fighting prowess. BUT, I also think that these kinds of fantasy detours of fighting styles can be super important too, because they allow imaginative, and even artistic developments that otherwise might not be given the space and time to be explored. I liken it to Science Fiction writing. Science Fiction is NOT Science. But it has had lots of impact on Science. Hey Sci-Fi writer Arthur C. Clarke imagined that one day satellites would circle the planet in a vast communication network, and look what happened. But, just as it's important to distinguish between Science and Science Fiction, you would want to distinguish between fantasy fighting and efficacy fighting (which sometimes is harder to do, because all sport fighting is shaped by rule-sets and aesthetics). Even if it is difficult sometimes, it's healthy to make the distinction. If Karate is claiming death-blows all over the place, and refusing to spar, it just can't sit there as the most deadly martial art because other fighting styles/systems are sparring and fighting frequently (with non-death blows).

I’m also a female and I trained at Phuket for one week back in March this year and is happy to share. I stayed at that street where tiger is at, although I did not train at tiger. I’ve went with my husband, but he did not train as often as I did while in Phuket. As a background, prior to going to Phuket I’ve been training Muay Thai for less than 2 years and no fighting experience, only done sparring with limited number of partners. To prepare for my trip, I upped the intensity and frequency of training months ahead of time so that I can get the most of my trip. Here are some of my experiences. I tried two gyms while there，first session at top team second session at dragon Muay Thai from there I decided to stick with dragon for the rest of my trip. The class at top team is definitely more demanding in terms of your physical conditioning, and all the people I seen training there are already in good conditioning. Their pad work is a bit different than the other gyms, as they will rotate you on to different pad holders. Which is kinda nice because you will get to try out different style of pad holder and if you really like one over the other you can book a few privates with them. After pad work I was told to spar with the other girls, this caught me by surprise as I wasn’t expecting that they will allow me to spar with none trainers. The girls are all very nice, the sparring went well. I then went to try dragon Muay Thai in the same day afternoon. I decided to stay at dragon because I felt more comfortable and at ease at dragon. Their class is less demanding on conditioning and more technique driven. After warmup and stretching, the trainers will guide you through some shadow boxing and then partner you up for drills. You then move on to do few rounds of bag work and few rounds of pad work with one of the trainers. After that everyone will be doing sparring, compare to top team, they put more effort into pairing people up for sparring. I think this might due to the fact there are more beginner training at dragon than top team. Basically they will group/pair off people as they see fit. And the beginners will get paired off with the trainers, so it’s totally safe. I spend the rest of the week training twice a day at dragon, one private in the morning and one group session in the afternoon. Even though I was only there for one week, my trainer was still very invested in me, as well he was not against training women and he did his best to help me improve my Muay Thai skills. He was able to identify what im good at and what I need to work on. None of the trainers made inappropriate advancement to me. On a side note, one of the kru at the gym had a fight one of the nights I was training there, I gladly joined with some of the other students to go see him fight, it was an amazing experience. The street I’ve stay at is very comfortable, easy access to food and pharmacy, lots of choices of gyms and hotels. There are many single ladies living and training in the area so it’s definitely one of the more female friendly places. To my surprise I even saw many girls entering the ring at the gyms above the bottom rope and was not told off(but at the stadium they will make sure all women entering the ring are entering under the bottom rope tho). Eitherway I always entered from the under the bottom rope even though they never demanded it. I hope this is helpful, and that you enjoy your stay at Phuket.

I have a few but Id say my favorite as a go to for both exploratory probing and straight damage is the leg kick. Its a lot more versatile than people think. Timed wrong and you can be made to really pay for it, but if done right it opens up so much, especially to the body and head. And it hurts in a different way than other strikes. Youll know quickly if they have a weakness in their legs and/or balance. With that said there are different techniques for the low kick too. My current favorite is in using it to create engagement without exposing yourself. (I mightve said this already somewhere else) Bazooka Joe Vallentini teaches a really slick way to use the momentum of the kick thrown (not hard, just testing) to pull the whole body slightly back. You can use it to cause the opponent to come forward slightly into range for hooks and even teeps. It creates just that amount of space that the opponent has to step to engage. That step is your opportunity.

Hello all! This is my first post and I am really excited to throw my voice in with you! My question is this, what are some "go-to" texts, videos, or podcasts that I may be able to get my hands on to better understand the philosophy (if there is one) of Muay Thai. For example, I have been studying the ancient Greek Stoics for about 5 years (what I graduated in) and have noticed that their teachings have influenced modern Cognitive Behavior Therapy and Roman Catholicism/Christianity. I am wondering if there are any writers or thinkers like that for Muay Thai: people who wrote about the meaning behind each movement or the mental state one needs to be Nak Muay etc. and are revered in the community. Thanks for your time! I'll be googling around as well and make sure to share whatever it is I find.

This is pretty insane, because I was just talking with Sylvie this morning that she needs to write this kind of book, because nothing that we know in this area of exists, if we are speaking of Thailand's Muay Thai. There are definitely philosophical/metaphysical/religious/cognitive underpinnings to Muay Thai in Thailand, but they have not been teased out, on their own. I think she's going to do it if we can find a publisher. I would be interested in what others post, if anything though. I'll add something if I think of it. These are Academic articles on Muay Thai in English which Sylvie and I have run across and read, though nothing really touches on this subject. You'll get a little bit of it in this essay on the nature of Thai hypermasculiity: Thai Masculinity: Postioning Nak Muay Between Monkhood and Nak Leng – Peter Vail which talks about the versions of masculinity that are expressed by the Thai fighter:

Yup. Every week, multiple times even, for years. And for what? Looking back, Im positive it didnt help me or 90% of the people who did it. The ten percent it did help wouldve grown no matter what lol. Now, for me as a coach, is about efficiency. What will make the 90% grow? Hard sparring frequency drops. That being said, the definition of hard and light changes too. Light becomes a little rougher with certain people, hard becomes more about escalation and intent than actual contact. Understanding that its not competition but a form of growth.

This. This is what matters to me. Intent. To explain a little about my background so people understand why this is important to me: I grew up just doing hard sparring, gym war type stuff. Intent is real and many that came up this way saw a lot of damage being done for no real reason other than "can you take it". There wasnt a lot recovery research being taught either. It was a walk it off mentality. Because of that I ended up a chronically in pain 38 year old. Its taken me years to get to the point where the pain is gone and my body is normal, years of recovery and therapy. Im in no way against hard sparring for the right people whether they are hobbyists that want to be tested or fighters prepping, Im just against the mindless hard sparring because tough guy shit. It serves no purpose. I mean, Ive seen really bad injuries in technical sparring, it happens. But sparring like everything else needs to be used as a tool, applied because theres a goal. If the goal is to push someone for competition or because they want it, then the intent is pure. Im all for that.

I like "hard" sparring better. Not because it's a more valuable tool - I think Sylvie pretty much nailed the qualities of all the training tools in her post. It's just a matter a taste. I usually have more fun when my partner and I sparr "hard"; but only if we don't take ourselves seriously. When there's too much ego involved, it's annoying as hell (asshole factor). On the other end when people whine about every single little bits of pain, it's also very annoying. Some of my trainers actually abide by that rule. Pretty unfair.

Ha, this is the video that got Sylvie writing in the first place. I think JWP and Sylvie are 100% on opposite ends on this. Sylvie looks at this and she's like: These kids aren't even making contact. JWP is like "Holy Fuck!" I think JWP has been outside of Thailand for too long, hahahaha.

Yes, Somrak has been on everyone's list, including our own! We got very, very close to filming with him when he had his own gym in Bangkok. We visited and filmed there (he wasn't around, so we filmed with some of his trainers), and then we visited again just to talk with him, and how do I say this delicately...he was several sheets to the wind, but kind of amazing. He said then he doesn't train people anymore, at all really, and we got the sense that he spent almost all his time in the part of the gym where chicken fighting was being done. But, he took Sylvie in and said yes, he would definitely film with her for the project (photo below). So, we were almost there! But, he then lost his gym in a very heavy gambling debt (I think). We literally drove up to it before the news broke and it was completely bulldozed. Like it was nothing but a lot. Without a gym, and with probably a somewhat carefree lifestyle, it will take some doing to get to the place where we can film with him. My own intuition is that this is something not to rush or push, but to just let it naturally evolve. When it happens it will be special.

Right cross.

Meat and three veg first. If you eat that, then we'll add some gravy. But seriously, every lesson contains, left, right, left hook, low kick. Without fail. This is because, you must have something so ingrained in you, that when the shit hits the fan, it comes automatically.

When I first started Muay Thai I thought knees were the coolest weapons and I wanted to make it my favorite limbs to hurt people with. I still love them a lot but they haven't become my favorite. As I progressed I came to love teep way more. And elbows! Those two are currently my favorite weapons. I use teep first as a way of saying: "do keep your distance and stay way over there I love my personal thank you" - but then of course they eventually end up in my personal space which is actually what I really wanted in a the first place, and I get excited like: "Ohh cool. Let me now introduce you to my elbows." It's all fun.

I love knee strikes, and I like to think of myself as a knee guy - but when reality hits me in the face, I'd say I'm not great at getting into kneeing range, but I have a decent southpaw right teep that I rely on. That combined with being comfortable throwing punches in combination and on the counter are what I'd say I really like doing!

I'm really unsure of this. I just read a complete history of Taekwando, which I thought had a long foundation in this, but it was pretty clear that so much of the "spinning" stuff is really a modern invention (far from its Karate origin), maybe since the 80s and 90s, and grew out of very non-fight oriented practices, and some of it from demo performance. In fact almost all of what we now think of as Taekwando arose out of pretty suspect rule-scoring shiftings (very, very light blows "scoring", no punches to the head, etc). None of this is really traditional martial art stuff. It's all very modern. It really surprised me. I think this is a significant thing. And I completely agree. But, at least for me, things are "working" against fighters who just are not very high level, fighters that lack deep-seeded spatial awareness. There are lots of things that work against more limited fighters. But the reason people get super excited about it isn't because "hey, this works!", it's because someone made a highlight clip and then that clip "works" in the social media stream.

I've seen a few versions of this now. One in which the girl is wearing a frilly dress, one in which they look dressed more or less the same, and this one. They're all in hotel rooms, which is a bit odd. I have 3 older brothers and none of us ever learned combat arts to a significant degree. I think my brothers did 3 weeks of Aikido or something. So, when we hit each other it was unskilled. All that said, I train in a gym that has seen and currently has a few sets of brothers. They are not the same size as each other (not nearly as close as these two appear) and occasionally take it upon themselves to clinch or spar. Our trainer doesn't match them up - that often leads to "Jai Rohn" emotional states because... well, siblings. But when they choose to do it on their own it's very playful, even when rough at times. I'm a fan of it. The other day Alex and Bank, who are not real siblings but have grown up in the gym together for the past 5+ years (ages 13-18, so significant time at that phase) were sparring - directed to do so by our trainer because they have fights at the same time - and it got HEATED. They never lost control, but I haven't seen them look that much like brothers in years, just by the rivalry.

From a coach perspective, makes all the sense. From a student & fan perspective I wish just once in a while people (ok online people) could just stop & appreciate the athleticism it takes to do what Daniels does (mind you, I did enjoy watching his damn long karate leg get chopped before he learned to defend the low kick mua haha Muay Thai).. I don’t know why it gets to me but it’s like an mma attitude of (bear voice) “it’s not REAL fighting”. In a sense that’s true since many spinning techniques, tornado kicks & what have you come from point sparring, but when it works (atop rock solid fundamentals as you say), can’t we bow down for once? It’s a futile, silly effort of mine I know (change online culture Bwa haha). And of course, as you are a coach, I understand the meme. Then there is this, at 59 seconds. Cause like ya say, when you have the basics & way more, why the f*ck not?!

Lol more humorous, but frustrating if they cant buckle down on the fundamentals. Basics win fights as a great coach once told me. Id want a lot of time put into those before Id explore the more fancy tricks that make highlight videos.

I think both Daniels and Gaston (love him) are perfect examples of people that train it to make it integral to their arsenal who also have their fundamentals down solidly. In those cases Im a fan. I have a guy who has a nasty spinning hook kick hes used successfully in competition. He trains it diligently. Raymond is another guy that has made it part of his tried and true from years of training. I cant find any fault with that. What Im not a fan of, and the coach who made this meme is also trying to say, is focusing on techniques that for most are low percentage working techniques over the tried and true fundamentals of fighting. Ive encountered some people that couldnt throw a round kick with out losing balance want to just learn a spinning elbow. If theyre a hobbyist and we're doing a private, Ill just sigh and take em through it, but for my students that compete its a bugger frustration. Nothing wrong with spinning stuff as long as you have everything else coming along nicely.

I saw the Raymond Daniels KO. I’m not a fan of how people mock spinning things (Kevin your more nuanced take of when to use them, offensive v defensive or at least singularly makes sense). But within other traditional martial arts it’s a well developed art form. The Daniels KO was hilarious cause he did two full rotations (and he’s a huge dude), landed, saw the opening & just punched his opponent’s lights out. Evidently he stuffed himself and had no room to throw the leg. Apart from the easy mockery of all the flowery effort, you have to accept that his opponent was dumb-founded & took a hard one to the jaw as a result lol. Diversion is not meaningless. As for Gaston Bolanos, I’ve seen him fight several times and his elbows can seem calculated for the television audience (his movie star looks don’t hurt), but I believe he is an earnest & serious fighter, perhaps not from the Thai perspective but he’s a lifelong martial artist, starting with his boyhood in Peru.

The teeps mixed in with muay thai kicks are really my bread and butter. I love linking together teeps to the xiphoid with kicks to the ribs and quads. I feel like I am dancing a little bit when my hips are going back and forth to deliver the kicks and transition into the rear or front teep. That and I love watching people stepping back. Something else I also enjoy a lot are timed teeps to the hip or xiphoid to counter incoming kicks. I haven't sparred in a long time due to a concussion; however, when working the bag or shadow boxing, I love laying it on thick with the teeps. I hope that when August rolls around, I can get back to linking teeps with kicks on my partners. Some secondary faves are elbows and knees. Elbows because they just feel smooth and I love how they can link to a lot of combos at short-to-medium range. Knees because they are hard for me to master haha.

What is yours James?! I would love to know the things you favor as a coach and ex-fighter. I can't really have a favorite technique because I don't really train consistently, but damn, there is nothing more beautiful than the general assault of knees. They are like body punches, but sharking upward so they are very hard to perceive. Especially Yodkhunpon's style of inward knee:

Fighting up a weight class or two vs the Northern Champion Nong Benz Sakchatree, in Chiangrai, Thailand My Post Fight Vlog

Oh, I should've worded myself a bit different. These kind of coaches makes me scared but i was saying it as a matter of fact. Like saying that ice-cream is really really cold, but I'm still enjoying it a lot. It's not something that bothers me in retrospect. I like sparring with scary, hulk-like coaches too sometimes. I like having to battle with my own instinctive urge to flee away from danger. I find it fun in its own way. And I know I need all kinds of sparring situations/challenges to progress. But they do seem oblivious of how exactly heavy they are and the amount of damage they can do by just "brushing" someone's leg. It's definitely not to everyone's liking and I'm not sure how well they adapt their behavior to fit each student's need. You don't say hahaha.

Lol I think this is directly tied to how hard they go on you too. That lack of gas can be a coach's kryptonite. It can make some coach's egos fragile and prone to over compensation. Not talking smack about your coaches btw, just thinking about myself and possible failings for me if I were in that position.

I really like how you translate combat with music. Thats a unique way of looking at it and I think, especially how tied music is to muay Thai, a good way to view it.

Yeah. It's only after I stopped doing that and left that gym that I improved, and injury rate dropped way down. Hard sparring's all good, but not that ruthless bloodthirsty shit where ppl are terrified of losing, (in something where there's nothing to lose), tense up, and then unload on their training partner as if it's the uncle that molested him. Nah, hell with that.

Exact. My first 3 years, about 7 of us fighting from the gym. We go saturday morning for sparring day, only 1 time per week. Not bloody kidding....one time, half way through training I look around and realise 6 out the 7 of us are sitting on the bench holding ice packs, and one dude got knocked the f**k out and couldn't remember how he got to the gym that day. That's kinda when I knew.

I checked out another compilation of the same kids, some of it really looked like excellent fake fighting. Punches pulled, like little whacks, but just for sound. Some might be hard (leg kicks, hey, there's no damage in that). This seems like Chinese performance, not far from the stuff we saw with Phetjee Jaa and her brother that freaked out the internet. But as Sylvie said, you don't know for sure unless you are there. Totally. And Sylvie and me might see this in a very different way because we see VERY competent young fighters all the time. We see 10 year olds that know how to handle themselves better than 30 year olds, so that can color our sense of safety too. But, to me, these kids look like they are swimming in water they have been been in for many years.

Parry jab with a counter right cross. Sometimes it surprises people. Feels great when I get it just right.

The asshole factor and the escalating thing. Most common thing I've seen around this is where, like, lets say like 2 people agree to do light sparring. Pick a number, say it's 40, 50% or whatever. One of them reckons, oh wait... my training partner is 5 kilos heavier than me... or oh wait, he's an inch and a half taller than me, or oh... he's got like... 2 years more experience than me. Therefore, that logically, scientifically means that I'm allowed (translation: 'Deserve') to hit him harder than he hits me. So he hits me at 50%, but I get to hit him at 80%, and that's the way to make it fair. So then what happens? Basically the 5 kilo heavier partner cracks him back at 80 to equalise, then the first guy loses his shit, throws his toys out the pram and emotionally hits back at 100. Then claims he had to because the bigger training partner escalated on him, without realising it was his own fucking fault to begin with. Not for nothing, but if you get kicked in the balls it's usually someone like this who does it.

My Kru talks a lot about this. As he puts it, those little Thai blokes are masters of it, ever wondered how 55kg man can kick like a 100kg? This is force=mass×velocity. He can spend a lot of time talking about it.

You had a good blog post on this way back in 2016: Hard Sparring in Thailand – Beyond Going Light

The main coach with whom I've been sparring most of the time is also a close friend now so I don't feel anxious about performance. Well actually, I've never really felt anxious about performance with him at all - luckily. He's smaller and lighter than I am which takes away some of the fear - he can still be really overwhelming if he wants to. He controls himself super well. He's great fun to spar with. Unfortunately for him, our sparring often gets an abrupt end because I hit him in the crotch by mistake. And he often forgets his protection. Tough luck. Hahaha. All the other coaches I've had in France have all been bigger and heavier than me and didn't control themselves so well. I don't mind the pain, but it makes me very scared and very tense nonetheless when I'm sparring a giant coach with heavy legs and punches. While I'm basically a punchingball when I sparr my French coaches, one thing I got going for me (the only thing really) is that they usually tire before me. One of them once told me, after only ten minutes of clinching: "ok enough, that's plenty of clinch". Wait, what?

hahaha, I also thought way more about why it's in a hotel room and why they are dressed (well, only the girl is ever dressed particularly) than the actual sparring element. I also watched pretty closely and it doesn't seem like they make contact very often, and when they do not very hard. If you look, there's almost no impact response from the receiver at all. But, who knows. I'm not there. As someone who witnessed Phetjee Jaa and Mawin do TONS of "show fights" for a couple of years, I can attest to how "real" something looks from a short distance and how utterly choreographed it is in real life. People still share videos of their demos with gushing comments that reveal they believe it to be a real fight, whereas in reality they're barely touching each other. Also, having watched little kids train in the gym with huge gloves and shinguards, versus tiny gloves and no shinguards, I tend to believe that protective gear is far less protective than it's made out to be. Is the issue headgear? That their gloves are small? That they don't have chest protectors? Mouthguards? Chest pads? Why is a gym safer than a hotel or livingroom, other than obvious obstacles like furniture, which they don't seem to be getting close to? Have you seen those videos of the little girl with the crazy ponytail that whips around while she does super-speed boxing combinations? It's super rehearsed, people share it like she's a phenom, and it's all a set pattern but just really, really fast. Is that different just because she's hitting pads or a tree (again, not really touching the tree, obviously) instead of having someone in front of her? It's Wu Shu performance more than it is real sparring or fighting, in my eyes.

Now that we've totally revamped the Roundtable Forum, with new software that will be regularly updated with the latest latest stuff, I'm starting a new features thread. This software is so awesome we're still stumbling on very cool stuff built in. If you find something you like screenshot it and share it with others. The first thing is simple, but not completely intuitive. How to Quote someone when answering a topic or a comment. You just drag your cursor over the part of what they are saying and you'll see the quote option pop up next to the highlight. It looks like this: When you hit quote the entire highlight will be dropped down into the comment box, with a citation of who wrote the original and when. That way people know exactly the parts you may be referencing in your thoughts. The part that isn't super intuitive is that you can quote several parts of a single post, just by doing the same highlight again. You can in that way quote a part, respond to it, then quote another part of interest, respond to it, and so on. The new quote will just pop in wherever you left your cursor in the comment box. And, even better, you can quote from more than one person, in a single comment, in the same way. Just highlight the words of someone in the thread, hit "quote", and then scroll to another person in the thread, and do the same. It makes for a nice, neat way of ordering the conversation. This is on desktop, I'm not entirely sure how it works on mobile.

That makes sense. Must be annoying!

Yeah these in conjunction are great. I teach these two in combo a lot. I personally like to far leg teep to an inside low kick with my lead leg. The lead teep sets it up nicely without the usual counter.

Yeah it definitely happened a lot here (my coach had to fight kb even though the promotion called it muay Thai because of the laws of the time). So much so that there are/were a ton of coaches that taught kb and called it muay Thai because they honestly thought thats what they were teaching. I had a few coaches that were really kickboxers and taught that while calling it muay Thai. It wasnt until I had a coach who was truly trained in muay Thai that I saw the difference.

As a sidenote, the lopsided mis-match of Kickboxing vs Muay Thai didn't just show itself in Japan in the 1970s or Holland in the 1990s. You can find it in America as well, a different branch of Kickboxing (Karate). I believe this fight was in California in 1987 (?) and featured Yodkhunpon Sittraipum "The Elbow Hunter of 100 Stitches". Not only did probably the greatest elbow fighter Thailand has ever known fight without his preferred weapon, with which the fight would have ended very quickly, he told us he was at a 20 lb disadvantage:

Kind of a side subject but I think relevant is the connection you mentioned in another post about the wealthy and specifically karate. That had to have had an influence in the spread of kickboxing after its development. If anyone can go so far as to develop a while new style to avoid losing to another style it would be people with money and influence. Just thinking out loud.

Thanks for the reply, i thought i'd love to fight in the end just because i thought it would take loads of prep, but if you say i could fight 3x in that period, i'd def do that. I'd love to fight even more, but i doubted i have enough experience in sparr's and skill to go along with that. I don't really think i'm a good fighter or whatever, but i know i'm brave. I started k1 in my country and i trained for 2 weeks, i went into the ring and fought a guy who had 6years of experience. Even tho i lost i was happy because for me it was learning experience, 1st time ever geting into the ring, and consdering he was training for 6years and i was only there for 2weeks , i didn't give the victory away for nothing, he had nice amount of souvenirs on hi's face. I really noticed the skill diference tho, he cornered like a pro and i was 2 tense. What place would you recommend for me to start training Muay Thai? I was thinking Phuket Top Team, but if Chang Mai is a better place for a beginner to learn and have some fight's, i would be down!

Dont know if I can really say I have a favourite technique so far. I'm just a beginner and haven't even trained very consistently because other stuff had to be done. Trying to get back into it now. I might say kicks. I'm not very good at them yet, one thing that limits me with regards to kicks is my lack of flexibility, but it just feels good to me and I've also been told I have a heavy kick (well, I'm a heavy guy though ). I'm still working on more flexibility, quicker, more secure execution and also making them less prone to being caught by my opponent. If we're talking go-to techniques in sparring, so far thats teeps, lowkicks and I have taken a liking to Sagat-style uppercuts even though I'm no pro at punching at all. Also I keep seeing openings for elbows so that could be called a favourite, too. It helps that elbows are among the techniques I already know from training Kali for several years. Unfortunately most training here in Germany is more geared towards K1 than actual Muay Thai.

It's funny you mention it. I get to experience both ends. At my school, I'm like you, I may be the teacher but I don't consider myself the top of the mountain, I'm there to impart knowledge nothing else, however I know some students feel awry about sparring with me. But when I go to my home gym, where I learned the art and am still learning the art, I like sparring the young fighters as (1) I'm nearly twice their age and I find their energy contagious, (2) The fighters are the best to spar with as they can really help you out. Our Kru is nearly 70 and has been involved with Muay Thai since the early 80's and is a wealth of knowledge.

I'm not a fan of spinning shit, but mainly because of how you're describing it as more or less the "hail Mary" of combat. It's rarely executed with balance or timing, although the times when it is... beautiful elbows can come out of it. What I like about the missed-hook-to-back-elbow that both Namkabuan and Arjan Surat have shown me is that it's resonding - quickly - to a miss. It's not spinning for the sake of spinning, it's continuing the movement when you're too deep in to reverse it. The 5 spinning backfists in a single round as an endlessly missed strike in and of itself looks about as badass to me as giving someone your back does.

There is! The Karuhat Intensive was it's own project. It was made possible by Patreon support, but it is not part of the Muay Thai Library. Instead, because we wanted to find a way to raise money in direct support of legends themselves we created the Sylvie Study On Demand Page on Vimeo. 100% of the net profits flow to the legends in the project. The 30+ hours of commentary work with Karuhat is all there. You can purchase or rent access to individual videos, or you can subscribe to the entire series by the month, and have access to all of them. It's kind of incredible. Karuhat had one of the most subtle and almost undefineable styles as a fighter, and the entire style philosophy and its techniques are laid out in these videos. No fighter's style has ever been so well documented, ever. Not only that, there are 6 hours of Yodkhunpon The Elbow Hunter also included in the same series. As a patron you get a discount on these series videos (see at bottom here). We also put up an entire website as home to more intensive projects and Muay Thai study, you can see that here: Sylvie Study. I'm not sure if you've already watched all the Karuhat videos in the Patreon Muay Thai Library itself, which you can see as a patron. Karuhat is the most archived legend in the Library. You can find all of the archive videos here in the Table of Contents. A control F page search can help you find content on that page. But for convenience here are the Karuhat Library entries: Bonus Session 1: Karuhat Sor. Supawan | Advanced Switching Footwork | 60 min - watch it here This is a beautiful session in which Karuhat expands on his switching style, having moved me from standard to southpaw in a previous session. #7 Karuhat Sor. Supawan - Be Like Sand (62 min) watch it here 2x Golden Age Lumpinee Champion (112 lb and 122 lbs), Karuhat is considered elite among the elites. Mixing an explosive style with constant off-balances, angling, and melting aways, he was nicknamed the Ultimate Wizard. I can only describe the things he's teaching here as: Be like sand. This is very subtle, advanced stuff, far above combo techniques or specific defenses. It may take a few viewings to absorb what he is teaching. Everytime I watch this I learn something new. #11 Karuhat Sor. Supawan Session 2 - Float and Shock (82 min) watch it here In this session one of the greatest fighters who ever lived really digs into what must lie beneath techniques, a general state of relaxation and rhythm, the thing that made him one of the most dynamic fighters Lumpinee has ever seen. #20 Karuhat Sor Supawan - Switching To Southpaw (144 min) watch it here 2x Lumpinee Champion Karuhat Sor. Supawan in this epic video posts installs a limited Southpaw core which leads to developing high level ideas found in his switching style: tracking and attacking the open side, watching for and dictating weight transfer. This is the blueprint of a legend's acclaimed fighting style. #27 Karuhat Sor. Supawan - Tension & Kicking Dynamics (104 min) watch it here Karuhat, a fighter with perhaps the slickest style of any Golden Age great, shows the importance of tension, and patiently goes through correcting the kick, making it quicker and much harder to read. #50 Karuhat Sor. Supawan - Serpentine Knees & Flow (62 min) watch it here The legendary Karuhat teaches his winding, advancing style, a culmination of many, many hours of our training together. You get a glimpse into his advanced movements, and his philosophy on reading opponents. #109 The Karuhat Rosetta Stone - The Secrets of the Matador (83 min) This session is somethign of a rosetta stone for all the other sessions. A few years past since we filmed with him, Sylvie still training with him periodically, so we took this session as an opportunity to cover the past techniques, using Sylvie's years long study of them as a way to open them up, and make them more undestandable. Bonus Session 7: Karuhat Sor. Supawan - Forward Check | 39 min - watch it here In this session Karuhat teaches his beautiful and unique Forward Check, and the system of attacks that flow out of it in his fighting style. You can read my detailed post in the Forward Check here. This check, aggressively from Southpaw, versus Orthodox fighters eats up space closes distance, effectively deal with one of the primary weaknesses of Southpaw attack. That makes 40 hours of Karuhat instruction available between both the Muay Thai Library and the Sylvie Study project. Insane. You can find the promocodes for the Karuhat Intensive down below: Patreon Promocodes: As a patron, depending on your tier you can be eligible for discounts on these purchases. $5 patrons get 15% (link: https://www.patreon.com/posts/17837199 ) of these purchases, and $15 patrons get 50% (link: https://www.patreon.com/posts/17837342 ) of of these purchases. The intensive series is supported by patrons.