Leaderboard

One of my coaches and I were just talking about this exact thing today. Older people who are just starting haven’t experienced the injuries and overuse issues. My body, after manufacturing and birthing 4 children in 7 years, needs a LOT of conditioning to get up to speed. But otherwise, I’m starting fairly fresh. There are lots of advantages of having a more mature perspective too.

I don't think 35 is too old at all! We've had people in their 40s join our team and fight for the first time and do really well. A lot of fighters stop by 35 because they've been doing it a long time and want something different or feel like they are slowing down. Part of that is the amount of wear and tear they have after training and fighting for more than 20 years though. They've been pounding on their body for decades. A vehicle made in 1983 with low miles will still run just fine

The new software updates to the forum have a very handy, fast way to get updated on all the activity that has happened on the forum since you were last here. Especially on mobile. You'll see the little newspaper icon at the top (circled red in the screen shot). It will give you a super browse-able list of new comments and posts. As you can see by the green circled item you can filter everything down too. Additionally, in your profile settings you can choose how you want your notifications will occur, and you can set up following particular forum members and other cool stuff. There is also a very robust private messaging system in the forum you can use to cross-communicate. There are so many Easter Eggs in this software I'm provably just scratching the surface. If you run into something cool share it with everyone, if you would.

Here is Kru Kimyu in Bank's corner. He also made itnover there at the same time Dieselnoi was screaming in Bank's corner about 2 months ago - 2 incredible men with VERY different energies in the same tiny area.

Very good catch! He, amazingly, also was Pi Nu's trainer (Sylvie's Kru in Pattaya). He used to travel in a circuit back in the day and would come and train the Petchrungruang boys regularly when he would be in Pattaya. Sounds as if he was a kind of traveling Arjan. He was training one of the greatest fighters of the generation (Kaensak in Bangkok), and also some boys in a small, family gym in Pattya? And how many others? As a side note, so out of sheer coincidence Sylvie's ended up training under two of his students, both Kaesak who was her trainer in NJ before she moved to Thailand, and Kru Nu now, which is such an unexpected, accidental lineage. What is interesting, if I have the story right, when Kru Nu's son Bank was starting to make waves last year at Lumpinee Kru Kimyu offered to come and help train him for an upcoming fight, if he could make it, but it never came to fruition because of his health/age. So we are really on the cusp of Kru Kimyu ending his influence on fighters. Sylvie says though that he's come over to Bank's corner in two recent important Lumpinee fights, so he's hanging out at Lumpinee. (Edit to add: It's also kind of beautiful and amazing to see this subterrainian connection between two gyms, Dejrat Gym and Petchrungruang Gym, two gyms you would never from the outside connect. There is a thin teaching line in Kru Kimyu, and also now in Sylvie there is a student line as well, as Arjan Surat has been a heavy influence on her. It's in the fabric of relationships.)

Kaensak's trainer (Kru Kimyu) still comes through Dejrat on occasion. It's been a while since I've seen him though. He can barely walk but will prop himself on the ropes and hold pads for fighters. He has to have 20 years on Ajarn Surat.

I'm also 35, so I don't think that's too old at all. I plan on another 10 years or more, so long as I can keep doing what I'm doing with adjustments where they're needed. But I do think that as a caveat, you just have to consider what YOU think is enough. A guy at my gym the other day asked me whether I think someone could fight, training only one session per day. I said for sure, but you'd really have to put the work in during that one session. I think you could fight with NO training, but it's about what you want out of your fights and what you want out of your training. So, if you think you're to old, probably that's going to direct your mind a lot. If you think otherwise, you can go farther.

I've met folks that had their first fight when they were about 40-45 and their grit is insane! They keep saying to me things like, I've got so much to catch up on you younger kids (I'm 26 lol), etc. But to be perfectly honest and as cheesy as its sounds, age is just a number. Once you've put your heart, your mind and your soul into achieving that goal, it's never too late. Can't wait to see your progress! Best of luck to everything!

Thank you everyone! That’s great news. I don’t feel old, just a lot wiser and just think i’m getting old. Really i’m in the best shape I’ve been since graduating HS and never have felt as confident as i do now. I’m happy to hear that there’s people still fighting who aren’t in their 20’s anymore. That’s really all the motivation i need to pursue this possibility in the future.

I've stopped thinking there's any such thing as being too old to do anything. Not out of my own experience obviously as I'm still only 28. But I keep seeing and hearing of people doing all kinds of incredible things at all kinds of ages. Here's Kru Rengrad (red short) one of my coach when I was at Lamnammoon's Muay Thai gym taking a fight in his 50s and smashing it (I don't remember exactly the date of that fight but it wasn't long ago): Also the oldest marathoner is, as far as we know, a man called Fauja Singh from East London who ran his last race at 101yo back in 2013 - and it appears that he didn't start young. (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-21565970/oldest-marathon-runner-fauja-singh-s-final-race) I see no reason why you wouldn't shine.

Yeah, I don't think Karuhat considers himself a teacher, even though he definitely takes pride in his students. I think his approach is very much like being a senior in a gym, who can raise the younger fighters up but doesn't necessarily assume a formal role. This might be a part of how modern gyms are different from back in his day though. You'd have a single superstar come out of a gym, like Karuhat, Sakmongkol, Santiennoi, etc. These guys weren't from gyms with tons of champions. But then there were a few gyms with lots of them, like Sityodthong, Nongkeepahuyut, Hapalang, just to name a few. Nowdays you have gyms that buy up ALL the stars and they all train together, pulling them out of their smaller gyms where they could be raising others up. But they do carve each other, in these "show horse stables," I guess.

You are completely right! His teaching style is almost entirely through sparring, and correction in sparring. He described to Sylvie how when he was in the gym as a fighter he would always be working on moves or deceptions that would catch his sparring partners off guard. He thought to himself that if he could fool someone who knew him well he could easily fool or mistime an opponent. It led to him developing one of the most unique fighting styles of the Golden Age. When he is teaching sylvie in all those sessions he is still doing this. We see him regularly invent throws, for instance, that we've never seen before, ever. And as he's showing the throw if you pay attention you'll see that he's working on it, inventing it right there before your eyes, just as he would do as a fighter. Now, this is the really interesting thing as to the topic. We have to admit that the entire ecosystem that produced these coaches, and all these fighters, it's gone, like the Amazon rain forest might one day be gone, but new ways of teaching and creating techniques are growing now. Fighters are communication their experiences. Rambaa just the other day was literally teaching Sylvie Karuhat's switching style, impersonating Karuhat, asking her if she knew who Karuhat was (???!), something he had stolen and made his own from videos. And...he's teaching this stuff to the Thai boys who are dreaming of becoming stadium fighters! So there is creativity!

I dont think the instructor was intentionally trying to hurt you. I do think hes out of touch with what it feels like to hold for a heavy kicker or what it was like when he started. Do you need to adapt to the process? Yes, but you also need time to do it and not feel destroyed during the process. Sometimes coaches are more fighter oriented, meaning they orient towards the harder aspects of the sport and training. Those ones tend to forget that a lot of people train in the arts for stress release and fitness. Some of them are really disconnected to the hobbyist. Suggestion: if you go back, pick a partner whos kicks you can handle. Maybe speak to the instructor and make your goals known. If none of that works and you get the same vibe, then I highly suggest finding another spot that caters to your wants and needs. Just my two cents.

When I was Thailand there was almost always Thai music put on during training at the gym. Usually the same CD over and over again - but also some pop music when the kids synched their phone with the speaker and put their playlist on. It's Lamnammoon Muay Thai Gym in Isaan so possibly a lot of morlam style on the CDs. Now the only song that stayed with me up until now is this rap song that made the buzz on the internet while I was there - a worldwide kind of buzz I think, not just in Thailand. One of the Thai boys at Lamnammoon's actually put it on that one time at the end of a morning session. Heavy political song. I don't know the real impact it had in the country and couldn't speak to the Thais about it because I don't speak Thai - even if I did I'm not sure I would've dared lol. There's English subtitles to the clip so we can get a little what's going on. Apart from being moved by this kind of message, I just really like the beat and the flow of their voices. After hearing that song I looked up some other Thai rap songs - I didn't really go deep in my research at all. The most famous rapper in Thailand seems to be "Rapper Terry" (his YouTube account has millions of subscribers). I like this song of his he did featuring another rapper called Chee Genozide. No idea what's being said though.

It's hard to gauge what the instructor's intentions were and what it means that he didn't come give you pointers as well. It's possible that he's a total jerk, it's also possible that you're taking it personally whereas it's actually just him not being mindful of how his actions might affect your experience. If you feel like he's not looking out for you or is actually intentionally trying to hurt you, take care to protect yourself.

Yeah, that's not quite it. That's a fake knee which has a different spacing and timing. But I'm sure everyone can get the idea. You set up with teeps, and then teep and miss to the side, but land quite deeply to that side of your opponent, and reverse elbow. The key to it all seems to be that the fake allows you to cross the distance really naturally, you kind of "fall" to the side of your opponent. The set up may keep them rigid, the miss may confuse them for a second. A big element of the reverse elbow as Sylvie learned it is getting your lead foot deep enough, to the side (or beyond) your opponent's foot. The teep miss accomplishes this in a great way. Many westerns attempt reverse elbows without any step depth, so they are inaccurate or lose power. Of course this is a once in a great while trick, but I love how sound in principle it is.

Off the top of my head there are not only teep location variations (the thighs, the hip points - to interrupt kicks - low in the abdomen, mid stomach, solarplexis, face), but there are all styles of teeps. You can hit with the ball of the foot, the point of the toes (this is painful), the heel. You can teep short and stiff, or lean back and long. You can jump on the teep, or turn the teep into a side kick a little for power. And then there are tons of combinations off of teeps, including a cool one Sylvie recently learned where, after setting with teeps, you "miss the teep" on purpose and fall into a reverse elbow. The teep is its own world. It's a great way to attack the gas tank, change levels when fighters are too concerned with hands. Sylvie in fact just has added the teep to her comfort zone and it is making a huge difference in the last few fights.

Pretty cool you see this clearly. Not everyone does because Muay Thai in the west can come filtered through very narrow technical pathways, and it is natural to want to emulate your trainer. But in Thailand this is really a big truth. Sylvie's first trainer in Chiang Mai, a westerner Andy Thomson who has been training Thais for 20 years, told her "There is not 1 Muay Thai, there are 1,000s. Each person has their own Muay Thai." And Den, her Thai trainer some years later told Sylvie "Everyone learns the same Muay Thai, up to you to put it together". At Sylvie's current gym, Petchrungruang, the trainer has a very distinct style that he likes, but he is so open minded no Thai fighter comes out of the gym looking like any other. It's kind of amazing. His own son fights very unlike how he would like. Big clinch fighters, or very artful defensive fighters all come out of the gym. You can feel that the gym just feels that everyone has their Nature, and this nature just comes through. Once you figure out a kid's nature you try to find the techniques that compliment and express it. I know I'm just saying what you have said above, but this is a really exciting part of Muay Thai. And it is exactly as you say, it's because it's a fighting art, proven and evolving in 1,000s and 1,000s of fights all over the country every year.

Okay, you need to be really proud of yourself for this fight. You look GREAT for a first fight. And don't worry so much about the "lazy" slowness; that's a thing that you see from the outside and you'll always see it, even when it's not really there anymore. When I watch this video, I can see that your mind is racing but your body is waiting - so the actual experience of standing in the ring is like you're going fast and it's a blur, you're just trying to react, but when you watch yourself when you're calm it's like, "GO ALREADY!" I still see this when I watch my own fights; my own padwork. You showed a good range of techniques and when you attacked you weren't flailing. Your spacing was nice. Those are really hard to accomplish in your first few fights because it takes so much to just get yourself to calm down and focus, but again you did great. What I'm really impressed about is your description of how you prepped yourself for this fight, mentally. Go back to those same exercises now that you've fought already, picture the fight in your mind and correct the "mistakes" you see in your mind. Think of it as recording over your memory of the fight and fixing all the things you see as mistakes with things you wish you'd done. Imagine your way through a perfect fight - being active, fast, breathing, doing all those moves you thought of beforehand. (Those were great, by the way. I'd recommend taking it down from 8 to about 3, and choose 3 moves that no matter what happens, you KNOW you can affect someone with those moves because you're great at them.) I've got a lot of fights by now and I still think, "I could have finished her if I'd done X" or whatever. Just bring it to your training. If you backed off or didn't smell blood and go for the finish, work on that in training. If you don't train it, it won't come to the ring with you - but if you do train it, you'll make huge progress before you know it.

K. von Duuglas-Ittu: Wow, thank you so much for the detailed advice. It is super helpful. I love Sylvie's technique videos. I knew that clinching would probably be a good strategy going into this fight, so I watched Kenshin's "Drowning the Genius in Clinch" video to get some insight on how to enter the clinch successfully, but I didn't get as much actual clinch practice as I would have liked. And you're absolutely spot on: in my gym we almost always practice clinch without gloves, so I wasn't well prepared for 'locking' my opponent's neck/head. That video is exactly what I needed. And thank you for reminding me of the 'personal' nature of Muay Thai. I really feel this is what sets it apart from other martial arts that are not as 'fighting' oriented. In things like Karate or Kung Fu where there's lots of forms/katas, there's generally a 'right' way to do things. But the beauty of Muay Thai is that whatever works in the ring can be considered 'right'. And what works for your trainer might not work for you. I sometimes lose sight of this because I respect my trainer a lot, and I want to please him. But he's a 185lb male, and I'm a 140lb female, and that makes a difference; both in phenotype and the field of competition we face. Also, I'm so glad you have suggested I cultivate the teep. I love teeps. I've had a nagging concern that I might become a one trick pony, but as you've pointed out, there's actually a lot of variation to the technique. Once again, thanks so much for the great advice.

I'm sorry you're experiencing this P.Evi, I know how frustrating and confusing it can be. There are times in my training when I fell like a damn rockstar for a couple days and then out of nowhere, even though I feel good, I come to training and just can't put it together. Even my trainer will look at me and frown, saying, "you better yesterday." Yeah, I know... but he also says that the body isn't the same every day. Any number of things can make your power go up and down, things you don't necessarily have a lot of control over: how well you slept, what you're eating, if you have different levels of hormones in your body in natural changes throughout the weeks and months and years... the body changes and you can only help direct it, you can't actually keep it in the same state all the time. I feel like I have more "tired days" in the past year than I did ever before. I'm getting older - we all are - but it's not a "I'm too old" kind of thing; it's just changes in the body. On days when I have no power, I take it way down and still do all my training but I focus on details in technique, or breathing, or footwork or whatever else isn't power. That's okay. Not every day is a power day. Keep in mind, the way you wrote your post implies that you've recently increased your training because you're fighting - so more sparring, more running, more rounds on the pads, etc. If you're doing more, you're going to be more tired as your body adjusts to it. I train hard all the time, but when I change my training - like when I stopped going to O. Meekhun, which was an hour of clinching, and started going to Karate, which is kind of an hour of shadowboxing and some stuff kinda like padwork, I'm exhausted. Just from the change. It's not more work, it's just different work and my body is adjusting. In your own opinion, what does it feel like you need? Do you feel like you need more rest? Does it feel like you're mentally hitting a wall? Are you feeling really good but physically just not what you're expecting from yourself? What are your trainers saying?