training around injuries

[Flora]

Hi everyone,

I didn't find a thread about this, and Sylvie wrote about the importance of training around injuries. 

So here my problem : I broke a finger 3 days ago in training, which totally suck because I feel I really can't do anything.

Any advices in what techniques I could work on in the meanwhile, how to keep my arm active (even if i can't do push up or pull up because of my finger), or anything else? 

Anything else you might think about that I could add to my -now- limited training

Thanks a lot!

[NewThai]

Lots of shadowboxing, kick drills. Might be a good time to improve cardio (runnig). So sorry you got hurt.

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

So here my problem : I broke a finger 3 days ago in training, which totally suck because I feel I really can't do anything.

 

Sorry to hear that Flora. Sylvie trained (and fought) through a hand fracture for about 3 months, earlier in this year. She just turned all right crosses into elbows. It's something you can do in shadow, on the bag and in pads. I'm guessing that your finger is in a splint, but the hand should be relaxed when elbowing. Maybe check out some of the elbow motion in Sylvie's Yodkhunpon video he has an especially light touch in elbows.

Also, working on your long guard (using your forearm to shield instead of a gloved hand), in shadow, might be an option. You can work on slow motion sparring with someone you trust.

[Flora]

Hi!

Thanks so much for the advices, I thought about running... will start soon (it's still a bit too cold for me right now, when it's below 0°C, my feet are just freezing!). Kick drill, yesyes!

I'll check Sylvie's videos for tomorrow, Thanks Kevin! I went training today, thankfully my coach gave me some tips too about stuff to work on the bag. I would have run out of ideas after kicking ;) 

Also, I'd like to work on explosion/power, what do you think is best? I was thinking jumping squat. 

[515]

Good that you keep going!

Also, I'd like to work on explosion/power, what do you think is best? I was thinking jumping squat. 

 

You could add some box jumps also. Search on Google for plyometrics, you will find a lot of fun stuff you can do. :D

[Rachel Perron]

Hi Flora ! 

Sorry to hear about that :(   I lived the same situation last year and it's very frustrating.  If you want to improve your cardio, check out Fitness Blender on youtube.  These guys litterally saved my life (must....move!) and the exercises are easy to adapt. Lots of stuff that uses only bodyweight. Plyometric circuits are also fun to do (like the Insanity one).  It's also an occasion to put more time to work on the core and lower body .

It really sucks to be injured but you'll get through it !

[Lobo11]

+1 on box jumps.  Try googling Bikram (hot) Yoga near your town.  You could do it with a broken finger and it would absolutely be a whole body workout (90min).

[Flora]

Thanks everyone, will check polymetric and Fitness Blender on youtube!

+1 on box jumps.  Try googling Bikram (hot) Yoga near your town.  You could do it with a broken finger and it would absolutely be a whole body workout (90min).

Ohh this is such a good idea! I might try next week!! 

[Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu]

Hi everyone,

I didn't find a thread about this, and Sylvie wrote about the importance of training around injuries. 

So here my problem : I broke a finger 3 days ago in training, which totally suck because I feel I really can't do anything.

Any advices in what techniques I could work on in the meanwhile, how to keep my arm active (even if i can't do push up or pull up because of my finger), or anything else? 

Anything else you might think about that I could add to my -now- limited training

Thanks a lot!

Argh, bummer. You can train everything that doesn't impact the finger, so just take punches out and do everything else. When my hand was broken I threw elbows on that side instead (which still hurt the hand a little but wasn't causing greater damage to the hand, so thought it was okay; it was okay). 

[Maya Flores]

I am so glad this thread is here! I just hurt myself randomly and now it hurts to walk.

how to train around an injured ankle? I stepped out of the car and clumsily fell to the ground, my left ankle snapping out to the side, twisting my foot. Now I can barely walk. I've been icing it and staying off it, but do you guys have any tricks to healing quickly? Does it help to put liniment oil on it, as well, or just ice? Should I use an ankle brace?

I am hoping to go back tonight, Friday, just for punching the bags, no kicking. What was the soonest time after a twisted ankle that you guys went back to doing muay thai? 

Thank you!

[Maiko Kerner]

So sorry you injured yourself! And of course not in training, but while doing something like stepping out of a car... I have had issues with my ankles for years, snapping the tendons several times etc. At first I used "air casts", which suck and annoy me. Two years ago, when I sprained my ankle once again (not while training, btw, never while training...) I went to a doctor who specialized in treating sport injuries and who deals with people who want to train as soon as possible all the time. He taped my ankle with kinesiology tapes, and it was amazing. I could go back to training after two weeks, just had to re-apply the tape every 1-2 weeks and that was it. And for the first time in years, my ankle actually recovered and I have not had any issues since.

[Micc]

I am so glad this thread is here! I just hurt myself randomly and now it hurts to walk.

how to train around an injured ankle? I stepped out of the car and clumsily fell to the ground, my left ankle snapping out to the side, twisting my foot. Now I can barely walk. I've been icing it and staying off it, but do you guys have any tricks to healing quickly? Does it help to put liniment oil on it, as well, or just ice? Should I use an ankle brace?

I am hoping to go back tonight, Friday, just for punching the bags, no kicking. What was the soonest time after a twisted ankle that you guys went back to doing muay thai? 

Thank you!

I'd advise you to just as Maiko said - go find a good therapist and let him apply kinesiology taping. It basically "gives" you additional tendons in the form of the tape. It will help to speed up the healing process, especially if the ankle is swollen, s/he can make you a drainage-kind taping before making it a stability one. So, check it out for sure!!

Flora, I'm sorry to hear about your broken finger. To still work out the arm muscles you might add sth like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJA_K4n-5bA (yeah it looks a bit silly, but hits the muscles hard! :D)

Take a look at 5:05 min - we do that in training with weights (0,5kg or 1kg or more if you can handle :D) and hold up the arms for a minute or a few minutes. You can start out holding a dumbbell 0,5kg and if it gets to hard let go of the weight and just hold up the arms. Without letting go! It's a killer! :D

[Flora]

I am so glad this thread is here! I just hurt myself randomly and now it hurts to walk.

how to train around an injured ankle? I stepped out of the car and clumsily fell to the ground, my left ankle snapping out to the side, twisting my foot. Now I can barely walk. I've been icing it and staying off it, but do you guys have any tricks to healing quickly? Does it help to put liniment oil on it, as well, or just ice? Should I use an ankle brace?

I am hoping to go back tonight, Friday, just for punching the bags, no kicking. What was the soonest time after a twisted ankle that you guys went back to doing muay thai? 

Thank you!

To heal quickly, beside ice I would suggest essential oil (you can't really have ice all day, while E.O. yes ;) you can message me if you want some more info) and also as they suggest you : k-taping (it's great, I've use it for my wrest)

 

I'd advise you to just as Maiko said - go find a good therapist and let him apply kinesiology taping. It basically "gives" you additional tendons in the form of the tape. It will help to speed up the healing process, especially if the ankle is swollen, s/he can make you a drainage-kind taping before making it a stability one. So, check it out for sure!!

Flora, I'm sorry to hear about your broken finger. To still work out the arm muscles you might add sth like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJA_K4n-5bA (yeah it looks a bit silly, but hits the muscles hard! :D)

Take a look at 5:05 min - we do that in training with weights (0,5kg or 1kg or more if you can handle :D) and hold up the arms for a minute or a few minutes. You can start out holding a dumbbell 0,5kg and if it gets to hard let go of the weight and just hold up the arms. Without letting go! It's a killer! :D

@Micc :D thanks for this link, I'll add them to my workout -with weight :) 

[Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu]

I am so glad this thread is here! I just hurt myself randomly and now it hurts to walk.

how to train around an injured ankle? I stepped out of the car and clumsily fell to the ground, my left ankle snapping out to the side, twisting my foot. Now I can barely walk. I've been icing it and staying off it, but do you guys have any tricks to healing quickly? Does it help to put liniment oil on it, as well, or just ice? Should I use an ankle brace?

I am hoping to go back tonight, Friday, just for punching the bags, no kicking. What was the soonest time after a twisted ankle that you guys went back to doing muay thai? 

Thank you!

The boxing linament might help a little for a sprain, but if you can get Tiger Balm or something from crushed ginger (anything that's "warming" rather than "cooling") will be better. I know in the west everything is RICE, but even the guy who came up with that acronym was recently turned against it. 

STOP icing it. You want to get fresh blood circulating in the area so it can flush out the inflammation and toxins that are building up. Your body creates swelling as a way to create a natural "splint", but that restricts blood flow and you just have all this build up in the are that prevents healing - if you ice that then there's even less circulation and your body can't flush it. From my experimentation over the past few years here, it's all heat. Heat heat heat. I fill a long sock with rice and microwave that, then wrap it around my ankle, shin, wrist or whatever is injured. It shouldn't be hot enough to burn you, obviously, but more hot than "warm." Once the area is nice and warmed up, do some movements to keep your range of motion (rolling it around, stretching a bit... gently) and some light massage (which helps with circulation). 

Only wear an anklet when you're moving around. If you have to stand for a while or if you're training. Just times when a lot of swelling is likely to happen or when you need extra stability, but then take it off as soon as you can and apply the heat. I've noticed I heal much, much faster when I use heat.

[Maya Flores]

I'd advise you to just as Maiko said - go find a good therapist and let him apply kinesiology taping. It basically "gives" you additional tendons in the form of the tape. It will help to speed up the healing process, especially if the ankle is swollen, s/he can make you a drainage-kind taping before making it a stability one. 

I had some first aid tape lying around so I wrapped my own ankle before practice yesterday! Thanks to Maiko and Micc for the suggestion! I found a youtube video on how to tape an ankle for stability and followed the directions.

I taped it moderately tight and it worked like a charm! It helped with the swelling and pain. I wrapped it beneath and above my ankle bone, then over my foot, then around my heel, then around my ankle above the sprain, then along my achilles tendon.

I went to training and just replaced kicks with punches. However, I did try some kicks, and the tape made a huge difference in how much pain I felt and how "wobbly" my ankle was.

[Maya Flores]

The boxing linament might help a little for a sprain, but if you can get Tiger Balm or something from crushed ginger (anything that's "warming" rather than "cooling") will be better. I know in the west everything is RICE, but even the guy who came up with that acronym was recently turned against it. 

STOP icing it. You want to get fresh blood circulating in the area so it can flush out the inflammation and toxins that are building up. Your body creates swelling as a way to create a natural "splint", but that restricts blood flow and you just have all this build up in the are that prevents healing - if you ice that then there's even less circulation and your body can't flush it. From my experimentation over the past few years here, it's all heat. Heat heat heat. I fill a long sock with rice and microwave that, then wrap it around my ankle, shin, wrist or whatever is injured. It shouldn't be hot enough to burn you, obviously, but more hot than "warm." Once the area is nice and warmed up, do some movements to keep your range of motion (rolling it around, stretching a bit... gently) and some light massage (which helps with circulation). 

Only wear an anklet when you're moving around. If you have to stand for a while or if you're training. Just times when a lot of swelling is likely to happen or when you need extra stability, but then take it off as soon as you can and apply the heat. I've noticed I heal much, much faster when I use heat.

I am heeding this advice! I stopped icing it. I have been putting liniment on it whenever I go to gym (it belongs to my trainer so I only use it during practice). 

Sadly, I guess it had not healed all the way and when I went yesterday to classes, including sparring, the activity made my ankle worse. I thought it had healed, but I guess not. The area around my ankle bone swelled up so I messaged liniment over it. Now, I'm out of muay thai until Monday because my ankle hurts just walking. Hopefully my ankle will be okay by then. 

Someone mentioned to me yesterday that when you let an injury heal (i.e.  shin splints? forgot the name for that), it will grow back stronger. If you don't let it heal...it's never good.

I think that was his way of saying I shouldn't have spent two hours doing muay thai on my ankle last night, lol.

[Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu]

Someone mentioned to me yesterday that when you let an injury heal (i.e.  shin splints? forgot the name for that), it will grow back stronger. If you don't let it heal...it's never good.

I think that was his way of saying I shouldn't have spent two hours doing muay thai on my ankle last night, lol.

Well that sucks, but just be patient with yourself so you don't re-injure. But you can try to work around it. Have you seen that video of Miriam Nakamoto sitting on a stool and working her hands two days after her knee surgery? Inspiration-ville.

[Maya Flores]

But you can try to work around it. Have you seen that video of Miriam Nakamoto sitting on a stool and working her hands two days after her knee surgery? Inspiration-ville.

I have not seen this video, but I would love to! I tried to find it on youtube but I couldn't. :(

Flora- I will message you, as I would like to know what you recommend if I can only buy one or two essential oils. Thank you!

I did initially try to work around it, only punching, no kicks, but I got carried away and wanted to do what everyone else was doing. I'm going back today. I might not do kicks during the beginner class, that way I can save my ankle for sparring. Also, my trainer will let me just spar for boxing, no legs, so hopefully my ankle will be okay. I lost my tape, so I'll just wear the brace for the sparring class. 

 

Thanks for everybody's suggestions and concerns! Can't wait for class tonight, I missed 2 days plus the weekends already.

[Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu]

I have not seen this video, but I would love to! I tried to find it on youtube but I couldn't. :(

Flora- I will message you, as I would like to know what you recommend if I can only buy one or two essential oils. Thank you!

I did initially try to work around it, only punching, no kicks, but I got carried away and wanted to do what everyone else was doing. I'm going back today. I might not do kicks during the beginner class, that way I can save my ankle for sparring. Also, my trainer will let me just spar for boxing, no legs, so hopefully my ankle will be okay. I lost my tape, so I'll just wear the brace for the sparring class. 

 

Thanks for everybody's suggestions and concerns! Can't wait for class tonight, I missed 2 days plus the weekends already.

I guess that video was on Facebook. I can't find it either. 

[Maya Flores]

Back again! Ironically, my new injury is not related to muay thai again. This time, I was walking in high heeled boots in a nightclub with strobe lights, stumbled, went down, and my knee popped out of its socket. My leg had fallen at an awkward angle after I bounced off a coach and table, and the kneecap had swiveled and was jutting out of the inside of my leg (sorry for the graphics). I shoved it back in and I could walk enough to make it home that night. I have a doctor's appointment next week, but until then I'm kind of on my own. 

 

I can walk fine, it just feels "tight." Bending my knee feels slightly to moderately painful. Questions:

Anybody else have a popped out knee? How long before you went back to kicking? Should I expect more knee troubles from here on out?

*I should mention that my knee did this once before in 2011, when I did a flip over another person during judo and landed incorrectly, never did see a doctor, my judo sensei said it was a sprained ligament.

 

Is a knee brace a good way to keep this from happening again? I am now concerned it will pop out during sparring or when I get thrown from the clinch. Any tips on keeping my knee in place is greatly appreciated! I've been using icy-hot gel on it and spending a lot of time lying down getting rest. 

Are there any exercises to strengthen the parts of the knee? Thank you!!

[Karen Burfoot]

I popped my knee out during a clinch session.  I was really lucky I went to the physio and she taped it.  I do 2 session of heavy weight lifting a week and she reckons this stopped too much damage as my quads are strong.  I was out for 2 weeks then back to normal after 4. Good luck wiith the recovery

[Maya Flores]

I popped my knee out during a clinch session.  I was really lucky I went to the physio and she taped it.  I do 2 session of heavy weight lifting a week and she reckons this stopped too much damage as my quads are strong.  I was out for 2 weeks then back to normal after 4. Good luck wiith the recovery

Thanks so much! Two weeks sounds bad, but definitely not the month I was afraid of! Going to the doctor today instead, so I'm going to ask about how soon I can kick. 

I am now utterly afraid of this happening again, especially in the clinch! I was just thinking about how to avoid falling awkwardly from clinching. Ouch. Glad to hear you've made a full recovery!

[Maya Flores]

update: my knee is healing nicely. The doctor said to take a few more days off and then I'm good to go. He said he wasn't sure if my knee was dislocated, but it just looked swollen and bruised now. He said just ibuprofen, rest, and my knee brace are all that is needed for my knee.

 

On a humorous note, he was very supportive of muay thai. He complimented me for going regularly...until he noticed bruises..and then he was like, "you get hit?" and I was like, "well, yea." He immediately got this stern look and said, "as a physician I must advise you to stop these types of contact sports immediately" but then he signed off on a blood test so that they'll be on file should I compete in muay thai within the next year. He must have been conflicted haha.

:)