Injury may hold me back from my goal

[mimisalah]

Before Muay Thai, I was playing soccer and had to stop due to a knee injury (torn meniscus).

I was looking for a sport to do for the fitness side without any risk of further knee injuries, but somehow ended up doing Muay Thai. I fell in love with this sport immediately and nothing was going to stop me not even my knee.

It's been two years and probably twice a year I get bad knee pains mostly from running :( it gets so frustrating, it stops me from kicking and especially running sometimes for a week or possibly a month.

At the moment I am contemplating whether I should have surgery on my knee before I leave for Thailand (hopefully around August). I don't want to go to a gym and say I cant run because I'm worried they will think I'm using excuses. I just choose to skip for longer rounds as it gives me a lower risk of an injury.

I'm worried to have surgery but then again it could end up well? Sometimes I believe it can be healed with rehabilitation and strength training and just being cautious, but then again I don't want to go to Thailand and have anything stop me from my goals...

[NewThai]

I tore my meniscus several years ago and did not do surgery, just PT and rehab work. I stopped running and instead swim at the pool. I'll do some sprint work with the team, but like 90-95% of my running has become swimming. My knee has been feeling SO much better.

 

I don't know how that would translate to training in Thailand, but I'd say good shoes and proper form will help. Also, if you can rest your knee with swimming or some other form of cardio these few months so that it is healed and in prime shape for a Thai gym and the running there.

 

Good luck!

[mimisalah]

I tore my meniscus several years ago and did not do surgery, just PT and rehab work. I stopped running and instead swim at the pool. I'll do some sprint work with the team, but like 90-95% of my running has become swimming. My knee has been feeling SO much better.

 

I don't know how that would translate to training in Thailand, but I'd say good shoes and proper form will help. Also, if you can rest your knee with swimming or some other form of cardio these few months so that it is healed and in prime shape for a Thai gym and the running there.

 

Good luck!

Thank you ! that's a good tip.  Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Joseph Arthur De Gonzo]

I have the same exact worries. 

Thought it's not my meniscus but my MCLs that are the problem. From what I've heard, meniscus surgeries have good % of success and are not so long to heal (like 8 weeks). 

I just partially teared my MCLs for the third time (1996 and a month ago for the right knee and 2011 for the left). That one of the reason I had to postpone my training in Thailand to 2018. I got surgery in 1996 not in 2011 and waiting to know for this one. But anyways, even before I torn it again it was a concern for me. The biggest. Really I fear not the whole training in Thailand but I fear the 10km run of the morning and the 5k in the afternoon six times a week BIG TIME. This is a major concern for me as I heard you do not get the respect from the coaches if you do not do the running. 

So I second you question. I'll do 2 hours of bike if needed, but I know that I probably won't be able to do that amount of running on a regular basis for more than two or three weeks without seriously injured myself. 

Is there any way around it and still getting the respect of the coaches in Thailand?

[mimisalah]

I have the same exact worries. 

Thought it's not my meniscus but my MCLs that are the problem. From what I've heard, meniscus surgeries have good % of success and are not so long to heal (like 8 weeks). 

I just partially teared my MCLs for the third time (1996 and a month ago for the right knee and 2011 for the left). That one of the reason I had to postpone my training in Thailand to 2018. I got surgery in 1996 not in 2011 and waiting to know for this one. But anyways, even before I torn it again it was a concern for me. The biggest. Really I fear not the whole training in Thailand but I fear the 10km run of the morning and the 5k in the afternoon six times a week BIG TIME. This is a major concern for me as I heard you do not get the respect from the coaches if you do not do the running. 

So I second you question. I'll do 2 hours of bike if needed, but I know that I probably won't be able to do that amount of running on a regular basis for more than two or three weeks without seriously injured myself. 

Is there any way around it and still getting the respect of the coaches in Thailand?

Oh wow ! Hope you're doing fine.

That's true, I'm happy it's not as serious as the ACL.

How did you feel after the surgery ? Did it feel normal again ?

Probably just be extra extra extra cautious when running and have a good warm up..

[Joseph Arthur De Gonzo]

Oh wow ! Hope you're doing fine.

That's true, I'm happy it's not as serious as the ACL.

How did you feel after the surgery ? Did it feel normal again ?

Probably just be extra extra extra cautious when running and have a good warm up..

Well the surgery I had was in 1996 I am not even sure what I had because back in the day, there was a big transition in the health system and they fucked up everything. Basically it was more butchery than surgery. I have a 4inch scar on the knee. When I came out of surgery they told me to move my knee as much as possible and the week after they put a cast on my leg from ankle to the thigh for 2 months .... 

Anyway. my knees always hurt, they really are bad. Both of them. Thought it's not so bad when I boxe and kick, the take downs are where I hurt myself. 

So for now, I am waiting to see an orthopedic to know if I need surgery (I am in Canada, free health care but long health care). I can't train right now. Well I do cardio and upper body stuff but I can do power transfert so I can kick or boxe or clinch. 

Really sucks. 

[Joseph Arthur De Gonzo]

To answer fully you question. 

It never felt better really. I mean, as far as I remember my knees always hurts. I was 6' at 12 years old. It's like wave. There is sometimes when they feel strong and sometimes when they hurt, can't seem to understand why. 

[mimisalah]

To answer fully you question. 

It never felt better really. I mean, as far as I remember my knees always hurts. I was 6' at 12 years old. It's like wave. There is sometimes when they feel strong and sometimes when they hurt, can't seem to understand why. 

Awww man that really sucks !! I did hear some good and bad experiences with knee surgery, but hey, if your knee is stopping you from training then I don't see why not give it one more go ? It's good to see that you're going to see an Orthopedic about it. Thankfully I can train but I'm always aware during training, always feeling unstable etc.. I kinda have gotten used to it..

Thanks for sharing your experiences and best of luck with the orthopedic

[Joseph Arthur De Gonzo]

Thanks, 

Yeah the worse is not training. The pain I don't really care and it's not really painful anyway, but I am not able to extend my knee so there is no way I can train. 

Anyways,

Thanks again and happy Aussie day on Thursday. 

[mimisalah]

Thanks, 

Yeah the worse is not training. The pain I don't really care and it's not really painful anyway, but I am not able to extend my knee so there is no way I can train. 

Anyways,

Thanks again and happy Aussie day on Thursday. 

Haha thanks !

[Finn Cartlidge]

if its going to injure you then don't run, its not worth it.

Depending on the gym your going to, if its a foreigner friendly gym they probably won't mind about the running since your paying anyway, just train more intensively to earn their respect. The problem may occur if you ask for a fight, training wise should be fine.

[threeoaks]

If the timing works surgery can be good.  I had an ACL graft which has an appalling long recovery period but my knee is far better than ever before.  If the timing doesn't work all these suggestions sound great.  Good luck!

[Joseph Arthur De Gonzo]

if its going to injure you then don't run, its not worth it.

Depending on the gym your going to, if its a foreigner friendly gym they probably won't mind about the running since your paying anyway, just train more intensively to earn their respect. The problem may occur if you ask for a fight, training wise should be fine.

But that's the thing, what if I want to fight? I mean I know this is in part a cultural thing, but there is some boxers and mma fighters that do not run and bike or swim instead. 

[Nina Nutting]

But that's the thing, what if I want to fight? I mean I know this is in part a cultural thing, but there is some boxers and mma fighters that do not run and bike or swim instead. 

 

In my experience of Thai gyms, if you don't run you don't fight. They will train you but I've never met a Thai who doesn't consider running an important part of fight prep. Whilst there are people in MMA and stuff who don't run, that is not the Thai way, and they think their way is best. 

[Micc]

Have you tried kinesio taping as support for your knee? Some physiotherapist use it even as part of the therapy, but I usually handle my knee pains with kinesio tapes and in a few days the pain is over. I don't have any diagnosed problems with my knees, though. They just hurt sometimes. Warming up properly helps a lot! Kinesio tapes also help me get rid of the "unstable" feeling in my knees when I have a weaker day. I love them!

[Joseph Arthur De Gonzo]

Have you tried kinesio taping as support for your knee? Some physiotherapist use it even as part of the therapy, but I usually handle my knee pains with kinesio tapes and in a few days the pain is over. I don't have any diagnosed problems with my knees, though. They just hurt sometimes. Warming up properly helps a lot! Kinesio tapes also help me get rid of the "unstable" feeling in my knees when I have a weaker day. I love them!

That's a good idea. Thx. 

[Finn Cartlidge]

But that's the thing, what if I want to fight? I mean I know this is in part a cultural thing, but there is some boxers and mma fighters that do not run and bike or swim instead. 

Well that's where you sit down with your trainer and speak with them about this, I think in the south the gyms are so foreigner friendly they they probably will let you fight, but it still depends on the trainer and the gym. 

So, I can't really answer this question properly.

[Joseph Arthur De Gonzo]

Well that's where you sit down with your trainer and speak with them about this, I think in the south the gyms are so foreigner friendly they they probably will let you fight, but it still depends on the trainer and the gym. 

So, I can't really answer this question properly.

Thank you. Anyways, for sure I will try to do it and cope with it. I guess it would be different if I do it and then if I my knees can't handle it, talk with them about it, than just arriving saying I can't do it.

[NewThai]

I personally hate having limits placed on me, so I hate writing this, but if your knees are bad enough where you can't train or have decent range of motion, you may need to set more realistic goals.

 

I know you mentioned waiting until 2018 to head to Thailand, so I hope this year you can do the things you need to do to heal up and be ready for the demands of fight camp, in or out of Thailand. My American coach allows swimming because it's more accepted here, but I can still run 5-10k at a whack with no issues and do sometimes when the weather begs for an outdoor activity. I don't do it every day because I don't want to be back at the ortho with more tears.

 

Depending on the gym and the trainer, it's hard to say what fight opportunities you'll have in Thailand. Take care now so you'll be in top shape and increase your chances of fighting there.

[Joseph Arthur De Gonzo]

I personally hate having limits placed on me, so I hate writing this, but if your knees are bad enough where you can't train or have decent range of motion, you may need to set more realistic goals.

 

I know you mentioned waiting until 2018 to head to Thailand, so I hope this year you can do the things you need to do to heal up and be ready for the demands of fight camp, in or out of Thailand. My American coach allows swimming because it's more accepted here, but I can still run 5-10k at a whack with no issues and do sometimes when the weather begs for an outdoor activity. I don't do it every day because I don't want to be back at the ortho with more tears.

 

Depending on the gym and the trainer, it's hard to say what fight opportunities you'll have in Thailand. Take care now so you'll be in top shape and increase your chances of fighting there.

Yes, it's my third time with this kind of injury. I know that all in all it takes about a year to heal (when you're not a pro that has 40k to put in this). Usually, if I go progressively I can run 5km per day. But from what I read, it's more like 10km in the morning and 5km in the afternoon. That a lot of fucking running. Anyways, I'll see how I am as the year go by. Thanks. 

[KerryB]

I know this is an old post but I wanted to suggest something that has worked well for me. I too suffer from knee injuries(breakdanced for 20yrs) so now with muay thai it is so important for me to  protect my knees because I also have flat feet so it adds to the stress put on my knees and back. I stopped running!! I switched over to riding a road bike, which allows me to cycle in a way that not only keeps my knees working smoothly, but allows me to tailor my cardio workouts which is awesome. I usually ride 90+ miles a week 25-30 mile rides and I do sprints and hill climbing and everything in between. I also add deadlifting to this and between the two my cardio and leg strength go through the roof, my knees get much more stable and stronger and I don't get the impact and wear running can give you over time. I am only 155 lbs but I can deadlift 250-300lbs. but even with moderate or light deadlifts my muay thai training is so much stronger and balanced. there is a reason dead lifts are used by every single sport, they work!!! just a different angle worth looking into to help you reach your goal and save some wear and tear on your joints:)

[Fighting Frog]

I know some of these posts do go back quite a while, but I was reading it anyway; and I have asked one of the Orthopaedic Surgeons at work about training etc with meniscal injuries.

Basically: meniscal tears never heal; they can't. Resting the leg may well stop any pain and ease symptoms, but any sort of impact exercise will make it all start up again. The damage will probably get worse with continued impact and action. Essentially, you have to decide whether continuing is worth it. Surgery is available (and getting better all the time - no more three months with a full leg plaster!) but it won't stop more damage being done in the future. You can either decide to continue training with such an injury and put up with the pain and wait until you're stopping your MT and then have surgery; or have surgery now and then have to have it again in the future (assuming by then you have any meniscus left!) Really, your best bet every time is to discuss it with your orthopaedic consultant - they know you, they know the extent of your injury, they can discuss your training wishes, and give you the best advice suitable for you. After all, they are used to working with keen marathon runners who aren't going to give up running; with horse riders who aren't going to give up riding; and martial arts fiends who aren't going to give up fighting.

Pain from arthritis is often eased by maintaining good leg fitness because the muscles help hold the joint apart and stable. I have inoperable (well, it was inoperable when first diagnosed 16 years ago, they could probably do something about it now) mashed up meniscus but I have found keeping good muscle condition helps enormously and I now (touch wood) hardly ever suffer from any symptoms. I've got stunningly flat feet too!

[ShinCheckin]

If you cannot run on it, how do you expect to train on it let alone fight?

 

I would suggest postponing your thailand trip and getting surgery.

 

I am not a Dr but I am a nurse, that is my suggestion. 

[Claradaisy1]

I've been getting quite heavy knee pain lately during and after my rides.
It started when I bought my new gravel bike that i purchased from online here and took it for a 3hr ride and towards the end my left knee starting acting up, when I got home I had troubles walking down stairs or putting any type of weight on the leg.

Long story short, I sold the topstone (for a few other reasons as well) and bought an Orbea Terra M30 and on 3/3 of my rides on this (50 min, 1hr 45 min and 2 hr) my knee got painful again. The pain seems mostly centered towards the front, outside and backside of the knee and when it gets really bad it also hurts down my leg around the top of my shin.

[ineedtobenicer]

Torn knee cartilage is a weird injury.

If the tears are small they can break off completely or lay back down and, either way, cause no pain.

I've got torn cartilage in both knees but that's what happened to me so I am pretty much symptom free with normal range of motion and strength.

That said, arthroscopic cartilage trimming is pretty quick to recover from.  I know one person who had it and was walking without crutches the next day (that may have been unwise but he had no discomfort/loss of strength from it)

Another friend had the cartilage trimmed and went out dancing that evening.  

I certainly DO NOT recommend that however the point is it's a simple surgery and recovery is comparatively easy compared to more invasive surgeries ... weeks vs months

You're a young guy and it's giving you problems and if it was me I'd get it fixed.

YMMV but I believe in fixing problems when they're small