Head Kick Form, thoughts on mirroring of the spinning wheel kick

[twisting]

Hello everyone (first poster):

 

I'm learning mt primarily as a movement discipline and not for fighting. (I'm 49.)  I learned kicking via Tang Soo Do and American full contact fighters years ago, but couldn't take all the bloody noses and thereafter have practiced for the joy of the movements.

I haven't found any free resources to help me on how to breakdown throwing a head kick in mt that makes it look much different than a TKD roundhouse.  I've checked out Sylvie's video on this with Master K, and it almost looks like he is throwing a Tang Soo Do or Wushu style crescent kick to the head. (Perhaps I'm missing something though.)  I found another video that breaks down the head kick, making it look like a TKD style roundhouse (knee up with chambered leg and hips square to target, then turn over hips and extend leg, the only difference from a TKD style being that the kick is delivered with the posted leg on the toes to allow more follow through.)

Any pointers/tips welcome and thanks!

A bit off topic, by learning the mt roundhouse (the variant with emphasis on turning out the posted leg and pulling up a straight or near straight kicking leg) I have seen that it  is in a way a mirror of the Korean/Japanese/Chinese spinning wheel kick as far as follow through goes and leading with the hips of the posted leg. (With the spinning wheel kick, you lead with the internal rotation of the posted leg, as compared to the external rotation of the posted leg in the mt roundhouse.)

 

-T

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

I think it is less helpful to look for a particular kind of kick as the Muay Thai head kick (and maybe this is something you are pointing out). There are so many variations in kicks in Muay Thai, other than the somewhat unique whipping action in the roundkick, its very hard to identify single characteristics. Other martial arts which have become formalized (rationalized) are more prone to this essentialism. Instead there are different schools, different styles, literally 100s if not 1000s of variations. But I do love what you are saying and doing here, trying to think investigatively on technique.

My guess is that there is a spectrum of techniques that mostly runs from a more chambered TDK-like kick (you see Saenchai use chambered kicks) to a leg dragging style, coming from the hip. Not looking studiously there seem to be kicks all along that spectrum. Master K's style of kicking is generally pretty old school. Styles of kicks sometimes reflect how the kick is hidden. Here is Karuhat, a Golden Age legend, teaching the straighter leg, leanover head kick, which he sets up with a body cross, out of a crouch. Sylvie says that Kaensak teaches this kick too.

- I edited this clip out from the exclusive Nak Muay Nation feature Sylvie shot for them. For the full hour one has to become a member. -

I don't really know the wheel kick or crescent kick well, but maybe you can see connections between those and these. Hope this proves of interest.

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

For others, here is Master K teaching his head kick to Sylvie in 2011, driving from the hip, letting the leg drag through.

Maybe others can add other Muay Thai head kick videos we we can figure something interesting out here.

[Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu]

Hello everyone (first poster):

 

I'm learning mt primarily as a movement discipline and not for fighting. (I'm 49.)  I learned kicking via Tang Soo Do and American full contact fighters years ago, but couldn't take all the bloody noses and thereafter have practiced for the joy of the movements.

I haven't found any free resources to help me on how to breakdown throwing a head kick in mt that makes it look much different than a TKD roundhouse.  I've checked out Sylvie's video on this with Master K, and it almost looks like he is throwing a Tang Soo Do or Wushu style crescent kick to the head. (Perhaps I'm missing something though.)  I found another video that breaks down the head kick, making it look like a TKD style roundhouse (knee up with chambered leg and hips square to target, then turn over hips and extend leg, the only difference from a TKD style being that the kick is delivered with the posted leg on the toes to allow more follow through.)

Any pointers/tips welcome and thanks!

A bit off topic, by learning the mt roundhouse (the variant with emphasis on turning out the posted leg and pulling up a straight or near straight kicking leg) I have seen that it  is in a way a mirror of the Korean/Japanese/Chinese spinning wheel kick as far as follow through goes and leading with the hips of the posted leg. (With the spinning wheel kick, you lead with the internal rotation of the posted leg, as compared to the external rotation of the posted leg in the mt roundhouse.)

 

-T

This is an interesting question and it kind of stumped me for a bit becuase headkicks aren't common. The headkicks you do see are sometimes totally lame and "die" on the shoulder instead of carrying through. But when they wrap around the back of the head a bit it's lights out!

Just now on TV there was a beautiful headkick KO. The blue corner was backing up and red corner was chasing. Blue took a step back and fired that same foot that had just stepped back straight up the line of red's shoulder and landed the foot right behind the ear. Red fell like a brick, just OUT. There wasn't a lot of turn or chambering or anything, just a straight whip up and the head bent over a bit to make room for the hip.