Opinion on UFC - Aggression vs Muay Thai Composure
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Hey everyone reading this, as the MTL and this forum was the initial factor of me going to train at Bangkok i want to share my experience of training with Sagat for a week and what i learned from it. First of all Sagat is a really nice person overall, He was willing to pick me up with his car and bring me to the training and also take me back afterwards every single day. He also shared several lunches with me and invited me more or less to a fight event at lumpinee stadium to show me more of muay thai. You also get a very nice feedback during training with him, depending on your technique the responds vary from critique, to good, to perfect, to uwee and of course "how feel" with a bright smile. What i learned: 1. Go straight: Sagat teaches of what i would call a traditional/old school way of everything. Most of the basic strikes we went through were supposed to travel the minimal distance. For example the kick is supposed to angle at about 45 degree and go straight up like a soccer/football kick, returning the foot by going directly back. Thus the hip snaps more, so you dont fully close the hip(if that makes sense). Also you dont turn in the shin on the last second like in "the golden kick", he corrected this many times as i was very confused with this. 2. Acceleration at the end of strikes: With punches and elbows there was big emphasise on accelerating "after" the hip and body rotation or even more so at the end of the upper body rotation. This way you can go through the target more easily (like when somebody tells you to hit behind the bag). 3. Straight punches: Sagat teaches to throw without turning the fist. Instead you lift the elbow at the end of the arm movement, so that your elbow (not the upper arm) ist positioned behind your fist, this way you get the "snap" in the punch or at least i feel this way. You also come in on a little angle with the fist, instead of coming pinpoint straight. Thinking about it i believe all of his punches work with the "elbow behind the fist". This way the wrist, the elbow joint and the fist feel more supported and the forearm comes as a whole. 4. Stepping in on strike and afterwards step out: I was supposed to step on every punch with the weight mostly on the front leg. I tried on different ocassions to switch my weight back and forth (like in the chatchai sasakul sessions) but i was corrected about it, because i couldnt get back fast enough this way. He also tried to teach me to breath in deeply before stepping in, so that you have enough energy to throw your strikes. I hope somebody finds this in any form useful. -
I was going to thailaind to train for the first time and was unsure where to go. With so much choice I decided to post a thread asking where would be best to go. After a recommendation by Kevin on this forum I decided to just give it a go and visit this gym in Chaing Mai. I messaged the gym and they were really helpful with recommendations for accomodation. Location: The gym is located a few minutes by taxi from Chaing Mai Airport. There is accomodation approximately 100 metres from the gym that is a reasonable price. I stayed in a hotel a bit further away that was right next to the mall. The mall is about a 15 minute walk from the gym and it pretty big. In terms of training it is really easy to get to your accomodation and the gym. The main city is about a 10 minute taxi ride away. Its pretty easy to get around and far less traffic than Bangkok. So if you wanted to live in the city centre and commute to the gym it's easily possible. In terms of things to do in the city there is loads of places to eat and markets seemingly everywhere. Other than that you can look things up in a guidebook for things to do or something. Training: Classes are 7am and 3pm with optional training before this. The classes consist of skipping, pad work, bag work, sparring/clinching. The class is well structured and you are always given something to do. Thailand will often show techniques throughout the session and this knowledge is absolute gold. I also did a few private sessions and got lots of corrections to various techniques but he didn't teach too much so I could retain it. He is an extremely good teacher and would highly recommend private lessons with him. I felt a huge improvement very quickly. It's hard to explain how much my technique improved within a couple of weeks but he managed to improve the fundamentals of pretty much everything I was doing. Thailand is a highly gifted coach and he really cares about everyone in the gym getting better and enjoying training. I cannot recommend this gym highly enough. The vibe at the gym: Everyone here is really friendly. The Thai guys who live at the gym are quite young but this makes no difference, they are technically superb and a lot can be learnt sparring them. The foreign visitors who were also there were all really cool and we all made friends right away. There is absolutely no ego here which was really nice to be a part of. Summary: A highly technical gym conveniently located with a genuinely caring and motivated head coach. Seriously, Thailand is a technical genius. The people at the gym (in my experience) were all friendly which really helps if you're visiting to mainly train as you will be at the gym a lot. There seems to be plenty of fighting opportunities if you want them. I didn't explore this and mainly visited to learn as much as I could. Thanks Kevin for being so active on this forum and making this recommendation. -
By Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu · Posted
The above is a kind of rough hypothesis, joining together broad brush issues of social mobility in traditional culture, Buddhistic cultivation of the proper affects, and the aesthetics of meaningful fighting in the culture. Along these same lines one could consider the traditional role of Muay Khao in the Muay Khao vs Muay Femeu dynamic. This could be considered a Bull vs Matador aesthetic, which I've argued expresses a deeper aesthetic dyad (the divinity vs the animality dyad). In thinking about social mobility within the culture, and the socio-economic factor in fighting style, it needs to be noted that the "femeu" fighter is often associated with the sophistication of the Capital of Bangkok (even though some provincial centers like Khon Kaen have produced a great number of Femeu fighters, Karuhat, Somrak, Pudpadnoi, etc), and Muay Khao, a style pridefully expressive of physical endurance, strength and a spirit of persistence, is strongly associated with rural life and the provinces. The classic Muay Khao vs Muay Femeu matchup of the Golden age could be seen as a passion play of the strong-from-work farmer chasing the cultivated artful Bangkok technician. (Some Muay Khao fighters like Dieselnoi chaff against this negative stereotype, emphasizing their femeu-ness when talking about themselves, others like Samson embrace their "unbeautiful" power and endurance, as an identity.) Within this matchup there is a cultural weighting of the art of fighting toward the sophisticated Bangkok artist. Just thinking in archetypes and clinches, the chasing Muay Khao fighter can be depicted as low "IQ", "just strong" and any number of class related pictures. (We have these same class divisions in America, we often don't think about them. The rough-and-tumble slugger, or the guy who is only "country strong".). Just thinking about the socio-economic realities of Thailand, & even Siam, and questions of social mobility, there has always been a polarity between rural and Capital power. When the Muay Khao fighter wins, and they won quite a bit in the Golden Age of Muay Thai with pretty much half of the FOTYs going to Muay Khao fighters, its that they have overcome the built-in aesthetic bias against the chase in traditional Muay Thai. They had to prove themselves persistent enough and/or artful enough to "catch" the Femeu opponent. Perhaps no fight typified the Muay Khao fighter not catching the Femeu Bangkok Prince of Muay Thai than Namphon vs Samart 2, you can read about it here: I add this inner picture to the overall concept of Chasing in the first post. It's not that chasing is completely removed from the aesthetic in traditional Muay Thai, in fact in its Golden Age the chase was an essential component of it as many matches, most excitingly, were "chase" matches. But, because the aesthetic was tuned to favor control over chase, chasers had to raise their game. It couldn't just be pure chasing, because buried within traditional Muay Thai was the indignity of the chase. This means one chases to control, one chases in a controlled manner, one develops an ART of chasing, of stalking, so that it doesn't feel and look like chasing. It raises the skill level of the chaser, perhaps bringing more social meaning to fighting as entertainment. I think this is something that is missed in people that think about the bias in traditional Muay Thai scoring. The bias towards "not chasing" actually produced some of the greatest stalking, chasing fighters on the planet.
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By AlexanderWenderson · Posted
I just came across your post and wanted to say that when it comes to video editing, there's a huge selection of applications out there, so it's important to find one that suits your specific requirements. Take your time to explore these options and see which one resonates with you the most. -
Thanks for responding and wow, what a beautiful ram muay. I think I really resonate with what you said about allowing yourself to occupy and utilize masculine and feminine energies without it having any bearing on your actual gendered existence. Being able to "go back" into masculine territory with Muay Thai has really let me take ownership over the parts of myself that I was running from and contextualize them into my post-transition persona. You and Angie are literally who I think of when I am overwhelmed and pessimistic about fighting. You both made room for me in the sport in your own ways and I am very grateful. PS, Bev Francis is so dope. -
By Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu · Posted
I will be sharing your words with Angie, as I'm sure they mean as much to her as they do to me. For me, personally, what drew me to Muay Thai was the performance of masculinity, with these simultaneous soft and fluid expressions. I've written on my blog about how masculinity does not belong to men; men "wear" it just as much as women can, it's not intrinsic or "natural" or inherent. Bev Francis, one of the most famous female Body Builders in the 70s and 80s pushed past the "acceptable" limit of muscles that "feminine" bodies into muscles that were heavily criticized as being "too much" for a woman. But Bev loved muscles and being strong for the exact same reasons males with those bodies love them: because it feels good. A pleasure not "belonging" to a gender, even if socially it is flagged or coded to the binary. As a cis woman, this is how I've navigated the very complex experiences of Muay. The parts that are masculine feel good for the same reasons they feel good to men, but I do get offended when folks comment that I "look like a man," or am "strong like a man." As a Cis woman, I have a more relaxed privilege to those offenses because I don't worry about "passing," but I do, at times, fret that I can never be unaware of being NOT A MAN in a man's arena. But vacillating in the in-between is where the real beauty is and, if Muay Thai allows you to explore and express your gender in a more nuanced way, then that's a wonder I have greatly appreciated as well. If you can find Superbank's stunningly beautiful Ram Muay, wherein he is pouring out feminine grace and at the exact same moment filling himself with masculine prowess...it's that. That's the perfect example. -
I started late, 25 yrs old. I have recently found Sylvie's videos interviewing Angie and while that is a huge inspiration for me as someone now a few months into training, I have found the real hook that kept me coming back to class religiously is the impact of Muay Thai on my relationship to my body. I pass fairly well when I am conforming to western femininity but I actually gravitate towards tom/butch expression (undercut, little makeup, "men's" cloths) despite being MTF. For my whole life, and especially the last few years during transition I have had basically hypervigilance/hyper fixation surrounding my body and how its being perceived/gendered and how I exist in space. Surrendering to the grind/burn of Muay Thai has been one of the biggest non-medical transition tool for reframing my relationship to my body from one centered on the perceptions of others, to one centered around learning how to assert myself in space and exercise balance and autonomy over my body. I have a lifetime of sharpening ahead of me but I have found a great deal of relief and reward in the distance I have come so far. As I become more at home in my body I am able to understand how my natural tendencies match up to the various subdisciplines/systems of Muay Thai and serves as a salient anchor for these parts of myself I want to develop in my regular life, and for getting past traumas. Making this post to share this experience, as after the fact I thought it was very ironic that this thing that is so good for specifically trans mental health (in my opinion) is socially and sometimes legally off limits to us. How does my experience compare to yours? Do you know any trans fighters that have had similar or different experiences?
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Sorry for reviving this thread, but I wonder which video editor you picked in the end? I bought a new laptop and thinking of trying some new video editors.
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