threeoaks

Ask someone if they want your opinion first. Then you'll know.

Hope its just soreness. Holding pads for bigger people can definitely trigger it. As for "flicky" thing - I think Jeremy means when you kick does your head twist momentarily. This is kind of common as people build the twist. I think you are sore from gettin banged on the pads. Congratulations and hope it goes away soon.

Good Lord (response to Kevin's posts). That's a lot of beauty. Very cool to have an origin story for the both of you.

Just keep the mantra "stay out of his head" and stop trying to read his thoughts. People are allowed to feel shitty and be short with me. I don't like it and I am hyper sensitive too. But don't use your adulthood as an excuse to call yourself the "worst" one etc. Those are thoughts I have and yes its harder for me to remember sometimes but I try and laugh it off with the coach - boo hoo I am old (beats the hell out of being dead). Its painful at times. I am older than you - its just a fact that my brain works sluggishly once in a while (and as a Mom of young kids - forget it - your RAM is nearly full all the time). So yeah as a person like you I say - stay out of his head, ask questions and if you really can't stand him go elsewhere. p.s. I am told women tend to want approval and to "belong" more when you coach them. Its nice if the coach knows this but he probably doesn't so you will either have to choose to dispense with that need or ask for more support or do what I do and just ride with it.

This seems notably like a guy phenomenon although I have had a few ladies act like they are going to absolutely KILL me on their first day but that's ok I like it and anyhow I'm not a coach so the ego ain't my problem.

Rereading this AM. I am struck by this passage: You are clearly hyper-literate and its both beautiful and strange to have to mediate and explain the caesura and its relation to fear and trembling through Western terms, in a non-Western field. The great thing is you are translating and not co-opting (one thinks of Picasso getting credit for his radicality by taking from African sculpture; its as if Picasso brought some sculptures to light in the Western world, then lectured on their greatness instead of painting them, or at the very least titled his paintings "after Maliean head"!).

And I express this single thing here: (custom ring canvas on gallery floor, awaiting ring delivery. wall is 14' mural of Alicia "Slick" Ashley shadowboxing).

Yes. It does. Its a demonstration of rarified conflict. Your average American white woman is well-versed in passive aggression which, while effective, is not a dominant way to go. I want access to dominance.

Makes sense. Appreciate the clarification.

Can you please describe some of the rule changes? I know for example in the US back of the head hits are often called as fouls, but they really are not. Or I think so anyway. LIke to know more and again, once I return from training, I look forward to re-reading your more central arguments.

The difference in space is interesting. You can travel on one leg before throwing the kick in TSD, which makes distance play a very live & central part of the form. We are both editing as we go. I am going back to read your clarifications. But I am also going to drop this line of thought in favor of returning to your more central points.

Back fists to the head allowed., usually the side of the head, no face-punching Kicks are fucking scary though, and of course they are longer. I think part of the problem here is you are primarily talking about tae kwon do because of that book (which is on my shelf). I hear no end of shit-talking about tae kwon do at the tang soo do gym, perhaps for some of the same reasons But I get your distinction.

Head's not off limits in Tang soo do. Head kicks all day. But I understand what you mean about giving charge to the space, the risk level. There is no question that MT is a more martial martial art. My new friend the Army Ranger agrees.

So many boring opposites in Western culture. Language forces this and I like to play with presenting supposed opposites (a fight is two "opposites" but I play with them to show their dynamic interaction and lack of separateness).

Yes I am presenting a live visual paradigm. I am presenting a live form of my belief system and I am grateful to the fighters for showing up. In return I hope I offer them a good, well run and well supported fight context as well as a chance to fight which is more rare for the bigger women. Its interesting. One of the preparators (people who handle artwork professionally) is a returning Army Ranger who trained other Rangers and was also flown abroad to train IDF fighters (he has some politely harsh things to say about Krav Maga lol). He is currently in the process of trying to learn non-lethal fighting (he's not talkative but I reckon he shares y'all's opinion of spinning kicks in live combat . You might say he is coming from the opposite direction that I am in enlisting local female fighters to live this enlivening process of being fighters in public. He is coming back from lethality to locate an art form.

Extremely fascinating.

I definitely get this distinction and agree regarding combat sports with no grappling. I cannot resist defending karate against this though, as I think the gap in this case is a very different one involving time in a completely different manner. Its so freaking fast and you fight from so far outside that you enter fight space lightning fast and exit it as well. I think your ideas can be worked out here at least in some kinds of karate though of course i get why everyone loves to put karate down. The gap is not spatial, its about being out of time, risking a complete departure from conscious time. What I love and prefer about Muay Thai though is its seeming slowness in comparison, the relaxation into shuffling, the illusion of stillness.

I only read a short form version of this. You alluded to your love of the space between fighters, or distance, as the negative space and ne plus ultra of fighting. Its good to read your ideas more developed (elegantly developed) here. I am going to have to study this for a bit.

THANK YOU FOR THE HIGHEST PRAISE and CLEAREST UNDERSTANDING I WILL GET! I read Metaphysics of Muay Thai and agree 100% its an art form of the highest sort. A big question in academic photography of the 90's was "what happens to truth now that we have digital photography". I say the 90's because photography is so far gone from believability now that everyone understands things can be faked. I made work that straddled that line - below is a picture of two women who used to fight with their sisters as children. I had them slapping each other etc, grappling in the sand before the picture. Their emotions (irritation, anger, pleasure at grappling) are "real" but their actions were performed. This is very helpful you pulled this thread out of the performance/ reality question in Muay Thai. Thank you.

I don't find your work exoticizing at all. I think its because there is almost always text accompanying the photos, that identifies the subject and specifies their occupation as well as what is special about them. I've got collages like you see above, and this is typical for a visual artist rather than classic photographer - you just take the image of someone and completely separate it from the person. A former colleague of mine is a most aggregious offender in my opinion. I love the photos (they are of a Goshkagawa, Japan School Basketball team), but in a NYC, primarily fancy white context they just look like she is using Asians as ciphers and stand-ins for all women. I did something unusual in this context, which is I made the collages ie; imposed my ego on people, but i also included an introductory room of "posters" (actually high production matte prints but pinned to the wall). Each poster features name and occupation. Its just basic courtesy but emphatic in this context and functions just the way your images do on social media - identify and raise up the subject. Feminism: I don't like the conventional idea that women are the kind peacekeeper mother earth types who would run the world better if we had a chance. Blegh. We are just as flawed and violent as anyone else. Yes there is something called "toxic masculinity" and yes we need more seats at the table and yes this would change things for the better, but instantly associating us with kindness etc is weakening. We need strength. Combat violence: I didn't write that haha. Just noticed it. I guess "violence" is correct but I am just talking here about something everyone here understands, which is that yeah fighting is about the violence, but its more about the love of the form and a kind of love of your opponent, not anger. Self-defense: I think self-defense is so much more about attitude. When you train martial arts you train offense at the same time. In conventional self defense class there is an assumption the woman will be a victim. Now, this is true statistically, but there is no real defense without offense which is usually not trained in self-defense context. Martial Arts: same deal - people think its about some kind of primitive violence, rather than a refined art form. I will just show them by having live fights They probably won't understand, but I will feel better.

Kevin kindly invited me to post this press release for my upcoming NYC art show here. I am a visual artist by profession, and I managed to squeeze my main love, combat sports, into the mold of art as you will see below (I shoot photos but not fight ones per se; I also do live events in the name of art). Some of you will find the language pretentious and that's ok Opens next Thursday in case anyone is local. Will be a sanctioned Ladies MT fight night with 6 amateur fights for July 12. Its same-day weigh-ins, geared especially for the higher weight classes. This is free and open to the public (as is the show), but space is limited so if you are around come early! Thanks Kevin! p.s. I am with you. I think Muay Thai is one of the World's great art forms (I believe you wrote "the greatest" and I love it). Dana Hoey, Alicia and Navajo Blanket, 2019, Lightbox, 20 x 65 inches, (Detail). DANA HOEY Dana Hoey Presents June 27 – August 2, 2019 Opening Reception: Thursday, June 27th, 5–8pm 456 West 18th Street Petzel Gallery is pleased to announce Dana Hoey Presents, a para fictional exhibition conceptualized, produced and directed by Hoey, in which the artist will show her own photographic work, the performance and sculpture work of Marcela Torres, and a live ladies Muay Thai fight night that will take place in a 20’ x 20’ boxing ring installed inside the gallery. The show, which challenges and confronts preconceived ideas and realities of feminism, combat, violence, self defense and the martial arts, will be on view from June 27 until August 2 at the gallery’s Chelsea location and will feature an opening night performance by Torres. “During the run of Dana Hoey Presents, my role will be that of Svengali,” Hoey says. “Although I make work as a single subjective, expressive artist, I prefer to emphasize my position as a participant in a larger social construct.” For her own work, Hoey will present Ghost Stories, highly subjective, surreal lightbox collages, made from images shot by Hoey, and a logo designed by David Knowles, which will recur elsewhere in the show. The people featured in these photographs will also be presented in a separate room as poster-style portraits featuring their names and occupations. In the labeled posters Hoey’s aim is to surface the power dynamic of portraiture, particularly as it relates to a white artist taking the image of non-white people. Hoey will also present a 14’ tall stop-action photograph of the great boxing World Champion Alicia “Slick” Ashley shadowboxing. Ashley, a fighter as seasoned and skilled as Mohammed Ali, holds 3 Guinness World records and many World Titles, yet she remains unknown to most Americans. “I invited Marcela Torres to be in this show because her work intersects with mine in dynamic ways,” Hoey explains. “She is first and foremost a performance artist who directly visualizes and attacks the currents of power acting on her queer brown body.” Torres works with fight training devices (speed bags, heavy bags), that have been mic’ed and the sound amplified and remixed. For Dana Hoey Presents Torres will present Agentic Mode, a 40 minute performance that employs audial soundscapes, martial arts movement and spoken word to contemplate contemporary violence as a lived war zone. The instruments she uses for the performance and the recorded sound will live on in the heart of the show after the live performance. Exhibition programs include: Thursday, July 11 Violence and Victimhood, a panel discussion moderated by Dana Hoey, featuring Nona Faustine Simmons, Emma Sulkowicz and Sarah Schulman. This panel is intended to frame the question of violence and historical, personal and cultural victimhood from viewpoints other than Hoey’s. Friday, July 12 Ladies Muay Thai Fight Night, emceed by artist JJ Chan and featuring 5 amateur fights. Doors open at 7pm and entrance is free and open to the public although space is limited. Thursday July 18 Multi-disciplinary Fight Clinic, taught by Tang Soo Do World Title holder Jo-Anne Falanga. Clinic is open to all levels including beginner, and all styles are also welcome. Dana Hoey is a feminist artist working in photography, video and social practice. She most recently exhibited Five Rings at the Detroit Museum of Contemporary Art, which featured self-defense classes for young women from the Police Athletic League and the local community. Three books are available on her work: The Phantom Sex, with essay by Johanna Burton; Experiments in Primitive Living, with essay by Maurice Berger; and Profane Waste, in collaboration with the writer Gretchen Rubin. Her persistent interests are conflict and the possibility of political art. Marcela Torres brings into action performance, objects, workshops, and sound installations that investigate the interpellation of our diaspora. Petzel Gallery is located at 456 West 18th Street New York, NY 10011. Gallery hours: please note that the gallery will be open on Friday, June 28th and Saturday, June 29th from 10:00 AM – 6:00 PM. Thereafter, our summer hours begin Monday, July 8th, and we are open from Monday to Friday from 10:00 AM – 6:00 PM. For press inquires, please contact Ricky Lee at ricky@petzel.com, or call (212) 680-9467.

I would have someone check your form on the inflamed side (boxing hook & MT hook can be different, plus have someone check the height of your elbow/angle of it on that punch). I’ve had assorted injuries that have been corrected through better technique. Others, such as a year or so of inflamed wrist tendons, simply improved as my bones & muscle hardened & tempered around them. But maybe you are past that. Ice! Copper bracelets! Voodoo! I hate injuries. Good luck .

You’re not inviting me & I’m not looking for an invite but I’d like very much to follow along, help if I can as an auxiliary outsider

Does the building of profiles and online material (training, fight and interview videos) play a role in Thailand as much as internationally? You all have the best test case of course. I am wondering if more studies of young female fighters would build excitement the same way (I know Sylvie has profiled many fighters and your "Great 8" is a perfect educational tool for me as a Western fan; just curious how it works there).

Of course and I have no contacts. Glad you see a way forward. I’m a fan of how Nike is handling themselves in the US (Colin K Jersey etc). Someone there has an advanced vision. Will watch how you do this happily.