Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu
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Posts posted by Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu
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Above is a jarring anti-blackness beauty advertisement for a product that promises to whiten skin, illustratively included in a new Asian Correspondent article on the esteem of white skin in Japan, Taiwan, Korea and of course Thailand. The Thai commercial is described:
In one such ad...Verena L-Gluta Berry Plus advertises its so-called beauty drink by showing an unhappy black bear speaking to a pale-skinned female doctor who explains to the bear that it took millions of years for its kind to evolve into a white bear. Fortunately, she tells the sad bear, with the use of beauty drinks evolution can happen overnight. Proof of this is her father’s appearance in the office; he has dark skin, and is actually Negroid. Needless to say the ad proved to be lusterless among some of the critical Thai population, but that didn’t prevent many more ill-thought out ads containing ridiculous prejudicial notions following it.
A few years ago Thai cultural critic Kaewmala also wrote a really good piece on this in her Thailand's Skin Whitening Crazy: How Far Will it Go?
The commercial itself just shows how completely alien much of the Thai thinking about skin color is to most of western sensibilities, and it's a small secret that tourists and visitors to Thailand just don't know much about. If you don't speak Thai it may be hard to detect in the short term. The people of Isaan, the heart of Muay Thai, in the North East tend to have much darker skin (rural, often of Khmer or Lao decent) and are uniformly regarded as less through the signature of their skin color. It could be argued that Muay Thai (male) an prostitution (female) are generalized expressions of Thai conceptual blackness. Buakaw, whose skin is very dark, has a name which means "white lotus", almost a counter message ironic marketing joke. A female Thai fighter here in Pattaya is simply referred to as "the black one" at times, her father seems to be of Malay descent, and I've heard very nice Thais fall into very strong racist characterizations without thinking much about it at all. In so many ways Thailand can feel like a sci-fi trip down to a parallel universe of the 1950s in the west, and this is one additional dimension of it. And, as someone from western culture which has long struggled with the moral approbation of slavery, the same moral arguments against anti-blackness do not quite match up. They are only parallel, riding along only a similar track of ethic agrarian peoples vs urban modernization. But it is real, and striking when you run into it.
This was another controversial campaign that ended up getting pulled, selling Dunkin' Donut chocolate donuts in blackface:
You can read about that controversy here.
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Reflecting back on Emma's article I include this video of the 2015 WMO World Championship Title fight at 51 kg - a category that apparently had only 2 people in it. A fight to become World Champion.
[update, July 27, 2015: The winner of this fight Jade Sirisompan has changed the setting of the video to private]
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Adding this Caley Reece vs Tiffany van Soest Lion Fight to the thread. Caley's use of the clinch strategically to neutralize a dynamic, moving fighter. Loved it.
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Is that Palapon Gym in Hua Hin? I fought a girl from there a couple of times and a friend of mine did some training over there. I hope we get to see a video of that fight.
It's exciting that you guys will be training together again in August, Sylvie!
Seems likely that is the same gym. We only got 20 seconds of that fight, missing maybe the first minute, Sylvie's working on the blog post now. Made a GIF of it because it's so short. may take a little bit to load. The fight here.
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The head-coach was breast-feeding her child after training, without hiding or covering up. I have to say that it was an empowering feeling, and the gender dynamic was very much reversed in that it was the men who were in the minority and expected to avert their eyes, be professional or otherwise just "deal with it" the way that women normally have to deal with male-semi-nudity in male spaces.
That is pretty amazing. It shows you that things we take to be socially and structurally ingrained, like the power of the male gaze, or the codification of spaces (gym = male), can be subverted rather fluidly. Just change the numbers and purposes of most of the people involved in a space and power and eyes function differently.
We are always not far from reversals, and new things.
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Anyway, I think Joanna's muay/kickboxing background is what allowed to sink so smoothly into mma, whereas it would be harder for a thai or thai styled striker to go straight to mma. Joanna's footwork was already very active and movey (idk how to explain it) and she used her hands a lot too.
If you look at Joanna's trainers you can see why her clinch game is lacking and why she has more of kickboxing style. Though I've seen her in some fights which between a thai and kickboxing stance.
Few western fighters know truly how to clinch and female fighters even less so. Caley Reece is a big exception in that she trained clinch heavily for a long time,probably under the influence of her fighter husband despite not being in Thailand often.
I agree that from what little we've seen what sets Joanna's Muay Thai apart is that she is not just a strait-ahead fighter. Many female Muay Thai fighters, and male too, are used to their opponent standing right in front of them, and struggle when their opponent isn't just moving forward and back. It's kind of crazy that Randamie did not have quick success in MMA. People talk a lot about fear of the takedown. But I think it is much more about the dimension they are used to moving in. She's also really comfortable in space keeping her opponent at the end of punches. She does not hit air a lot, the punch that lands 3 inches short.
That being said, Joanna was undynamic against Duannapa. A lot of it is how your opponent makes you look. Even fighting someone bigger than you, and someone smaller than you can produce really different fights. You are never as bad as you look when you lose, or as good as you look when you win.
I also think there is a big difference between westerners who fight in a "Thai" style, and Thais that fight in a Thai style.
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Oh, now that you mention it, it makes complete sense!
"443" is "ShiShi-san" -> Yoshimi :) :) At least in my manga&anime-based-Japanese-knowledge it makes totally sense!
(4 is shi and 3 is san in Japanese, "-san" is also used as a honorific ending, kinda like Mr. or Mrs.)
That is pretty awesome use of manga/anime knowledge!
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443 is her ring name. Some snooping revealed her real name to be Yoshimi Hatayama. Here is an article about one of her fights: http://www.mmarising.com/articles/2015/04/05/saya-ito-defeats-chihiro-kira-retains-wpmf-title-at-bom-7-in-tokyo/
That would be her, translating names from Japanese is not fun since they use phonetics for foreign words but are lacking several sounds.
She told Sylvie that she's returning to Pattaya in August too.
Yes, definitely seen how crazy that transliteration process is. You do a great job Charlie.
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Saya Ito has several fights coming up;
6/28 (Tokyo) for BOM against Superbowl Pardon Gym (Spelling?)
7/19 (Yokohama) for BOM against 443
Sylvie just fought Superball Paladon Gym in Hua Hin (that is the fighter she facing, I believe). Is "443" a fighter's name?
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Rural, clean great training and possible fight opportunity???
How rural do you mean? Do you mean a gym in Isaan with a few bags hanging and maybe a ring? If so our brief time in deal with Isaan we found fights very difficult to manage. Even though Sylvie's an experienced and established fighter it was a very difficult process of getting fights at Giatbundit Gym (which now apparently is defunct). The reason for this is because in Isaan fights are bets. There would have to be an entire feeling out process by such a gym, where they figure out if you are worth putting in fights, and then there is the process of going to matchups where you literally stand next to other fighters about your same size and people haggle over the possibility of a fight. It is not easy to slide into an Isaan gym, train a bit, and start fighting. There are no tourist fights, fights are all ventures in gambling, and culturally gyms are pretty closed.
Forgive me if you did not mean as rural as this, but it's what comes to mind. Not familiar with Son Vinpor. Or did you just mean a gym that isn't in an urban area?
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This is an excerpt from Peter Vail's 1998 dissertation on Muay Thai Violence and Control: Social and Cultural Dimensions of Muay Thai Boxing, and how he characterized Thai female Muay Thai fighting based on his experiences in Buriram, Isaan in 1996 and 1997. Here "muay wat" are temple fights in the provinces. He seems pretty cavalier about the whole thing, and a pretty dismissive given that he is operating on very limited evidence. We do know that some Thai female fighters were fighting at high levels as Anne Quilan fought Nong Lek in 1990 in London, if I've got that right.
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I've seen the 1995 date as the year when female fighting was formally legalized, but only as a year in reference. What is interesting is that that was the very first year that the WMC met in a big conference, and WMC was (I believe) operating at the behest of Thailand's Sports Authority, the governing body which regulates Muay Thai. I wonder if the WMC made or proposed a change in female fighting, formalizing it's legality in some way.
Legality is a very interesting issue in Thailand of course. Currently for instance Child fighting (which is common) is both legal and illegal by different statutes. Even prostitution is technically illegal in Thailand. If we ever are to get at the bottom of the legality of female fighting in Thailand, which is to maybe say "women being able to formally fight at recognized stadia, where gambling is permitted" we would have to know something about the statutes before 1995, and if any of them were being used in a way to exclude women. And...to know if the WMC or the Sports Authority made some kind of change which altered that legality.
Women I imagine probably fought in the provinces for decades, with the same extra-legal standing as children who fight all over Thailand now, though probably only as a sideshow.
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This is great. It's really refreshing to see Muay Thai marketed this way in Thailand. It's rare to see it geared towards women at all, but when it is, beauty is the core of it. I loved that none of the women shown here were doing Muay Thai to be 'sexy'. They were on a deeper journey of inner strength - that's what it should be about. As Kevin said, it's quite subtle, too. They didn't shove the concept in our faces. Nicely done.
Funnily enough, I walked past this gym, Rajadamnern Singha Muay Thai Academy, while they were doing a training session on Friday evening. It's located in Thong Lor, a very 'hi-so'/upscale district of Bangkok (luxury cars are subject to a 300% import tariff in Thailand, so you don't generally see them much around the city, but you'll always spot some in this area. I've seen a couple of Bentleys and Rolls Royces down there - that's what kind of place it is). Not only is it in this district, it's in the middle of Seenspace, which is an outdoor hub of trendy bars, cafes and restaurants there. I happened to walk past as I was heading to one of the restaurants there at around 8:30pm, by which time a training session was in full swing. It's obviously a more fitness-orientated gym with late classes to suit the clientele who are likely to be coming after work. It seemed very busy, so they must be doing pretty well!
I'm pretty disconnected from hi-so/upscale distinctions Emma. Would you say that the area is "above" the class of women shown in the film? An office girl, a uni student, etc?
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This short film is pretty incredible in how subtly Muay Thai and women are being put together in a VERY middle class way. I would have to think that this was unthinkable even 5-10 years ago. I love that there is not just one female story, but three. For those that don't know, Muay Thai has a rather low-class image in Thailand and in many ways is not only ultra-masculine, it is of older generations, and has an appeal to rural Thais. It is not "modern". Seems to be put together as a student thesis supported by Rajadamnern Stadium/Singha.
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Sylvie will probably jump on later, but this is her video of the Floating Block which really helped with her kick in shadow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=62&v=op-sjn7Sewo
You can see Sakmongkol teaching the floating block here below, at about the 2:25 mark:
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That was a 'Shootboxing' match, wasn't it? I know she had a couple of those fights, but didn't do so well.. :mellow: It must be very difficult transitioning over to fighting with different rules!
Gave it a Google because it's been a long time since I saw it. It was this incredible liver shot combo that KO'd her:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35KUpmmElcI
Below is the full fight, starting at 4:10:
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjk5MTc2NTQw.html?from=s1.8-1-1.2
I see two hip throws that certainly aren't MT, and a long choke lock that would have been legal in MT and caused serious knee problems, but then eventually broken. But Rena's hands and combinations, and her clinch are all just too much, and Zaza finds herself in several compromised positions with her head down that could be KOs by knee. I think it's a blowout even in full rules MT. Rena is just too good. Too strong, too dynamic. No shame in that though, she is a special fighter.
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Kevin, I believe she was knocked out by Rena.
Was hoping you would jump in Charlie. Well, there's no shame in that, Rena is very tough. I just remember thinking that she did not look as sharp as I expected given how famous her name was in Thailand. Maybe I would see it with different eyes if I watched now.
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At this stage I'm sensing that the focus should be on proper form, good defense and conditioning.
This seems like a really good three to me, my two cents. Form can always be improved so starting there is great (shadow, bag, pads, and eventually sparring); and generally proper form gives you better balance which allows one position to more readily transition into another. This is a huge building block. If your form and balance stays strong there is no end to growth. Defense is also neglected early sometimes. But as your defense grows your comfort grows in fighting range. Defense before offense. And conditioning also is big because it gives you physical confidence, allows you to maintain form under fatigue, and stay at ease. Pretty awesome 3.
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Zaza Sor. Aree has been making a comeback this year, and at the end of April, she fought Krathaithong Por Promin.
The last memory I have of Zaza going to Japan and getting overwhelmed in a fight. Do you remember that fight Emma? Not sure if I remember the name correctly, but I was very surprised.
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Hey Charlie, this is amazing. Can you tell us anything about Ceasar's gym? I feel like I've heard of it.
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I have to say that Thai morlam country music has really surprised me. It often has oddly hypnotic Reggae-like beats, and a crooning voice. When it hits the sweet spot it is very good. Contemporary Thais tend to see it as old person music, or red-neck music. It's kinda incredible.
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Speaking really generally...
I think one of the frustrating things about Muay Thai is also something is liberating about it too. There is no way to pull back and "see" the whole art, or to see where your training is going. There are no katas, the best in the sport are ring fighters and their expression of Muay Thai is incredibly varied. In this way it is so much more like western boxing than like, say, Taekwondo. Add to this, there is a wide spectrum of training environments. In the west you are very likely to be guided with a strong hand by an instructor, but in Thailand (if you are learning in a more Thai style) there isn't a lot of instruction at all. There is just lots and lots of repetition, sparring and play. Thai style teaching is not structured in any obvious sense. There is just working on your strikes on the bag and in shadow, and then learning to use them. The problem for western students is that the Thai way comes out of teaching kids to fight, very mailable students that have years to learn and play. As a westerner the Thai way can become pretty clouded unless you have a lot of focus and a fair amount of time. If you are going to go that way the best skills you can learn is: How to train yourself on the bag and in shadow. From there it is an extremely organic process of development. If you are training with Thais be sure to keep asking questions, get to the point that you can self-correct. And one of the biggest things to learn as a westerner is to "relax". It, more than anything else, distinguishes Muay Thai from other western practiced fighting arts. If you can get relaxation going early on as a beginner, you have a leg up.
Some gyms like Master Toddy's in Bangkok or Santai in Chiang Mai offer more structure, more explanation and direction.
Don't know if that helps! Interesting question.
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Ronda Rousey's old Honda is up for sale on Ebay. Act quick!
There are many of Ronda's personal belongings inside the car including medals, UFC programs from past events, patches, hats, and all kinds of random Ronda items. You can see from the eBay photos what all the items are that are located in the car. We (Ronda's family) like to joke about all of the cool things you find in Ronda's car. Every time you open the door, it's is like an archeological dig! Also, Ronda did glue a few medals, patches, coins, and figurines to the inside of her car which probably aren't going to come off.Below you can also view two YouTube videos of Ronda dancing, singing, and having fun in her 2005 Honda Accord.Kinda cool, kinda bizarre. -
"In our first short, Director Mikka Gia focuses on four fighters (Tiffany Cass, Janice Lyn, Yumiko Kawano and Olivia Loth) training and fighting out of the Krudar Muay Thai Gym in Toronto, Canada."
Love this video edit of their female fighters. More and more the images of women in film are changing. You can feel the calm intensity of their training. Their focus. Love the song choice too.
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The Lure of "White Skin" in Thailand - Racism in Thailand
in Thailand Culture Experiences & POVs
Posted
The article suggests that much of the protest came from international quarters, Dunkin' Donuts is a world wide brand. The Doughnut campaign seems a complicated issue of racism. Ironically enough, in the commercial the exact opposite thing happens than happens in the bear commercial. A very light skinned Thai woman eats the doughnut and turns black, and this is a positive. Maybe a way of saying this is: becomes Other...but only for a second..."enjoy your moment". She takes her walk on the wild side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwvSb6x4a08
The campaign suggests that becoming black is "breaking every rule" and may be aimed at University students - we saw that Dunkin' Donuts is pretty popular with CMU students - perhaps mirroring the popularity and cutting edge of rap (just a guess). Progressive Thais did not see it that way though. It was just plain racism, using stereotypes to sell products.
As to "charcoal", keep in mind this advertisement is in English for educated Thais most of whom are not fluent in English. The word "Charcoal" probably does not have the same connotations to Thais that it does to us. I would also say that a black comedian going "white face" is politically very different than a white, or light-skinned person donning "black face". They aren't analogous to me. One comes from a position of social disenfranchisement, the other from a position of power. The history of black face and racism is well documented and is generally offensive in the west.
I do think that the younger generation that this seems aimed at makes the kind of racism implied complex.