Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu
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Posts posted by Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu
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As a sidenote, the lopsided mis-match of Kickboxing vs Muay Thai didn't just show itself in Japan in the 1970s or Holland in the 1990s. You can find it in America as well, a different branch of Kickboxing (Karate). I believe this fight was in California in 1987 (?) and featured Yodkhunpon Sittraipum "The Elbow Hunter of 100 Stitches". Not only did probably the greatest elbow fighter Thailand has ever known fight without his preferred weapon, with which the fight would have ended very quickly, he told us he was at a 20 lb disadvantage:
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You can see the hyperbolic Japanese prowess in this 1970 anime celebrating the incredible "Wave Breaker" Tadashi Sawamura, with his super secret flying knee. This was produced just 7 years after he had suffered his humiliation at the hands of the Thai Samarn Sor Adisorn. The manga Kick no Oni was released the year before, 1969.
Anime Intro: Kick No Oni (1970):
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This 1963 loss by elbows was, one could say The Origin of Kickboxing. The loser of this bout vs the Thai Rawee Dechachai was Kenji Kurosaki, a Japanese fighter who was by several sources said to be a co-inventor of Kyokushin Karate (1953) and who would after this loss go onto invent a Muay Thai + Kyokushin Karate fusion (the story is more complex than this, but this is decent shorthand), apparently informed by a Thai fighter he brought over from Thailand (Narat Siri by one report), opening up Mejiro Gym in Japan (1969). Kurosaki would then teach this new "kickboxing" style to among many other visiting Dutch men, Jan Plas, who would open his own Mejiro Gym, but in Amsterdam (1978), and go onto disseminate the hybrid invented Karate + Muay Thai style. Incredibly, it took only 13 short years after this loss (when in 1976, Plas founded the NKBB Dutch Kickboxing Association) for the invention of "kickboxing" to be formally exported to Holland. This fight is the origin of that series of dominoes.
You can also read about the fight that definitively established Muay Thai as superior to Karate, at least in ring fighting, a few months later, setting of it's own hyperbolic Japanese response:
Karate vs Muay Thai in the 1960s – Origins of Japanese Kickboxing << read and watch
Tadashi Sawamura vs Samarn Sor Adisorn
take a look at this 1968 Black Belt magazine article about that bout.
Two Avenues of "Redemption" from these Losses
Tadashi Sawamura
There seemed to be two primary flows of Japanese development from these fights. There was the promoter Noguchai and his favorite fighter (who eventually would have an anime made of his exploits attempting to recover his honor lost to the Thais), and would have a Japanese television fighting career filled with dubious and spectacular knockouts. You can see these very likely staged Kickboxing KOs here:
Kenji Kurosaki
And there was the Kyokushin Karate + Muay Thai hybrid creation of Kickboxing through Kenji Kurosaki who also lost, appropriating/infusing Thai techniques and training methods, establishing the Mejiro Gym, which then created Dutch Kickboxing through Jan Plas and others. On this line of development you had the star Fujiwara, who actually fought and won the Rajadamnern title IN JAPAN. Yep, they got Rajadamnern to fight for their belt in Japan and not Rajadamnern. He "won" the belt by tackling:
What plagued much of this Japanese success is of course the very strong sense that many of these fights, and the creation of these stars was faked or bought off. Anyone who follows the development of Japanese promotions knows that there is a long history of let's just say questionable outcome generations. The rise of the Japanese elite fighter had strong Nationalistic tones, and it seems pretty sure to bet that much of this was staged or at least manipulated. When the top Japanese Kickboxers came and fought the Top Thais in a World Championship (Dieselnoi and Nongkai were among the Thais, the team was headed by the respected Arjan Yodthong) in I believe 1982 (?) they had their clocks cleaned, and accusations of fight fixing attempts by the Japanese were rampant.
My thoughts on this have been spread in a few places, here is where I've written elsewhere:
The invention of Kickboxing as a sport, by the Japanese, was definitely experienced as "stealing" by many Thais. Techniques may have somehow "existed" in Karate in some theoretical sense, but nobody knew how to actually fight with them, as you can see in this famous 1963 fight between Rawee Dechachai and Kenji Kurosak (an instructor of Kyokushin Karate, and by some reports actually a co-inventor). You can see almost no ability to "fight" in the techniques often attributable to Karate. https://web.facebook.com/kevin.vonduuglasittu/videos/2975896942435500/ By most reports this loss, and many others, lead to a huge push to incorporate Muay Thai techniques into a new form of fighting, resulting in the sport and art of Japanese kickboxing. The chambered kick was reported ditched, elbows were added and emphasized, and Thai instructors were imported. By one report by 1970, only 7 years after this embarrassing loss, 3 Japanese channels were broadcasting kickboxing fights weekly. These fights featured lots of Japanese vs Thai showdowns, very likely fixed fights to demonstrate the superiority of the new Japanese style. This was definitely experienced as a theft by many Thais. When kickboxing promoter Osamu Noguchi opened his Kickboxing gym in Bangkok this was seen as afront. When the Japanese kickboxers were blown out in the World Championships there, it was a great cultural clash. By many reports Noguchi was charged with trying to fix those fights (the only Japanese win was by a disqualification), was punched in the face by Arjan Yodthong, and ended up having to flee the country in fear of his life, closing his "Kickboxing" gym. The problem wasn't so much that kickboxing (Karate) was trying to adopt Thai techniques, and Thai training methods. The problem was that they then were trying to prove their superiority in doing so through endless propaganda, and stage fights. Since the World War 2 occupation by Japan there had been long simmering ill feelings toward Japan and its' ethnocentric superiority (Ultra Nationalism).
and,
The problem was not that Karate didn't "have" techniques. Lots of techniques may have been in the kata. It was that no Karate "master" actually knew how to fight with them. There is a huge difference between "knowing" a move, and fighting with it. What the early Muay Thai vs Karate bouts of the 1960s and 1970s showed was that Muay Thai's superiority basically came from the fact that it was produced by 1000s and 1000s of full contact fights, in fact 100s of 1,000s all across the country. A single fighter's style was not only an accumulation of the transmission of the art, but also of 100 or so real, full contact fights, something no Karate fighter or master had. It's techniques and training methods were created by fighting. While Japanese Karate was produced by one or two men who came from Okinawa and literally just "taught" the art to others (mostly affluent youth at University clubs). At that point it simply was not a living fighting technique in the way Muay Thai was. It very well encapsulated and preserved very valuable fighting knowledge in powerful, meaningful ways, but was not capable of producing actual fighters like that of the process of Muay Thai, and this was born out in actual fights.
The truth is I'm just piecing this story together from fragments of the history still discoverable on the Internet. A lot of us just think of Kickboxing as only another form of fighting sport, and don't really think much about how it developed, or it's origins of motivation. It doesn't mean that Kickboxing is "bad", but in some ways its origins reveal its weaknesses, not only as a fighting art/sport, but also in terms of ethnic storytelling. Much of this storytelling has been done through dis-equal match making (for instance pretty significant weight differences between Dutch Kickboxing stars and top Thai fighters), or in likely outright match fixing, or in propaganda-like media representations, or story shaping (some of it very passive: very few present day Dekkers fans realize he was only 4-15 in Thailand, the mythology of Dekkers is its own subject though). Present day Kickboxing comes out of this heritage, and much of that heritage has been ethnically driven to minimize the fighting prowess of the Muay Thai of Thailand, and leverage up, and in some cases plain making up the efficacy of foreign opponents.
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18 hours ago, Xestaro said:
There is this thing about "let them try to strike you but make them pay every time" that we also did a lot. Directly counterattacking instead of blocking is a central concept there. Stuff like parrying a punch with a move that, if done well, is supposed to strike the opponent in the same move as it parries their punch. Or making someone who uses a leg kick on you pay by not only blocking with your own shin but dropping your knee on their ankle while doing so, very similarly to what the general demonstrates in that one session.
You see this in Muay Boran styles like Muay Chaiya, at least as it is taught in Bangkok by Kru Lek. You get a real sense of "defense first", but defense itself has an offensive structure, or the difference between offense and defense is really blurred. This always struck me as the sign of a style's proximity to actual warfare. The very first rule of warfare fighting would be "Do not get killed", and then "Do not become disabled". When you see styles that are founded on rock solid defense (and in my book "evasion" is not rock solid because you can evade, evade, evade, and once you fail, you are dead - or, when a second attacker arrived) it just feels like it's the warfare logic. Those Chaiya, Lertrit styles, where defense becomes wounding, and you are always only a move or two from finishing the fight. That feels very realistic to battlefield demands.
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18 hours ago, Xestaro said:
There is so much that sounded very much familiar to me in the Muay Lertrit sessions. Things that are either very much the same as I learned in Kali or at least follow the same principle.
Muay Lertrit is a very interesting example, it's like no other branch of Muay Thai or Muay Boran because it actually has root influences from other traditional martial arts. As the General explained, it's inventor was a Navy man who traveled regularly, and very likely picked up aspects of traditional martial arts along the way, and wove them into the Muay Khorat style he was raised in. Add in that it was developed as a martial (meaning warefare) Art, and you get a very unique expression of Muay Thai in it.
วิสิทธิ์_เลิศฤทธิ์ Ajarn Wisit Lertrit
This is not very different than the kinds of inventive cross-sections between martial arts that were happening in the 1920-1950s. East and South East Asia seemed to be experiencing unique cross-pollination (Karate itself only coming to Japan in 1922). There is a story that all traditional martial art fighting systems flowed from Shaolin, in some form or others. But there is another sense in which many of them were in contact with each other in the early 20th century. There is no "pure" form. Arjan Wisit may have even come in contact with Filipino martial arts.
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Some of the sessions referenced in the OP:
#54 The Late Sirimongkol and Lertrit Master General Tunwakom (81 min) watch it here
#36 General Tunwakom - Lertrit Military Muay (46 min) watch it here
#40 Gen Hongthonglek - Muay Femeu Tactics & Mindset (70 min) watch it here
clip of General Tunwakom:
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The Role of the Rich in martial arts. Reading a fascinating book on the real history of Taekwando. If you want to understand the fate of Muay Thai, you have to understand the fates of other martial arts and sports. Super interesting is that Karate was basically a rich kid art, when it was brought over from Okinawa, taught in clubs around Universities by only a couple of Okinawans in the 1920s, and then 30s. A few of these affluent youth were also Koreans (Korea was a colony), so they brought back what they learned in those clubs and basically invented Taekwando over the years. Two huge waves of martial art influence, Japanese Karate and Korean Taekwando (which was basically Korean Karate) fell out of that little university scene of rich kids probably affirming a deep and long for sense of manliness through study. Okinawan Karate (I don't know much about it) was probably born across the people of that island culture, but it was the role of the rich, or at least affluent, that created the bridge for its transmission. This tension between the rich who engage in dreamy, ideological theaters of transformation, and the poor who do all the fighting, and through fights/wars, actually develop the techniques, is in Muay Thai as well. It's interesting and important to not undervalue the transmitive-imaginative role of the rich. You see it all the time. Even in the huge influence of The Fighter's Mind by Sheridan, which essentially was a rich kid seeking to find manliness, but in a way that just resonates across the culture. Ultimately, its the affluent, or some mode of affluence, which will end up transmitting a culture and it's arts to other places in the world. The responsibility placed upon them is subtle and important.
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On 5/28/2019 at 1:04 PM, Patrick VALOR said:
I think everyone is super hyped about Muaythai possibly becoming a full medaled sport in the Olympics and there are some that think that there will suddenly be a flood of new Muaythai students rushing to fill their local Muaythai gyms with the thought of possibly becoming an Olympic Athlete. That cannot be furthest from the truth! As Kevin has showed, TKD is on a decline despite being an Olympic sport.
There is so much good in your comment Patrick, but this really stands out as worthy of discussion. There is a strong sense - from afar - that the USMF and related activities have been inspired by the path that TKD has taken to become a world wide sport. Some of this may have simply been that some passionate about Muay Thai are passionate because of their experiences with TKD in America as a youth. I believe I've read some talk about this connection explicitly. There seems to be the hope to create something like what happened with TKD, but without all the huge organizational and political problems. Basically: Let's do what TKD did, without fucking up so royally. And that includes Olympic inclusion. But you are right, Olympic inclusion does not automatically create robust growth, at least along the lines of the data I'm looking at. Here is TKD since 2004, World Wide search data, compared to Muay Thai:
You can see the huge spikes during the Olympics (blue), but that the decrease is basically not interrupted. Now, the big question is: What is this decline and what impact did the Olympics have on it? Has corruption and inefficiency at the organizational level just lacked any way of building off the wave of interest during those Olympic peaks? And, what didn't help was that the 2008 Beijing Olympics were marred by the accusation of TKD match fixing, adding to the already problematic image of TKD as "not real fighting". I personally suspect that this "not real fighting" brand is perhaps the largest factor in TKD decline, because combat sports the world over have grown pretty much with branding in the opposite direction. TKD has a limited brand reach that goes against existing trends, it's going to experience value loss. Olympic inclusion kind of complicates that picture, promoting it but also confirming a difficulty.
In the US it's a slightly different picture than the one above:
Same Olympic bumps, but I don't know if it is concidental, but in 2004 and 2008 Muay Thai seemed to get a bump during Olympics as well, suggesting a possible wave to tap into. I think it would be crazy to think that Olympic inclusion would not create a surge in class sign-ups in Muay Thai. There would be. The huge question would be whether there is enough infrastructure in place to absorb it, and be fueled by that surge. That is what the (perhaps) deeper value of what you are doing, it's putting in place the structures and relationships that they could absorb the influxes that will happen with Olympic inclusion.
There is of course another component of Olympic inclusion, which must be thought about under TKD, which is that Olympic inclusion provides a tremendous influx of money into the sport. The stories of corruption at the organizational level are well publicized. You don't get sweeping corruption charges without sweeping money. What it seems is that the influx of attention and money into the sport simply was not transferred to broad scale growth in terms of world attention. But kids all over the United States, for instance, found themselves in TKD classes. All that energy was absorbed, but not translated into productivity. These are the things that concern me when thinking about the TKD model.
The truth is that I don't know enough about the Taekwando development history. It feels like a really important thing to understand. Because I care about Muay Thai I think this is something I'll be starting to read up on, I've already got a book downloaded on Kindle!
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On 5/27/2019 at 4:11 PM, Raulis said:
have a plan to go 2 Thailand for 2-3month's because that's the time my visa would allow to stay, i'd love to have some training and i'd love to have some fights, but as i would be a complete beginner in this sport, i don't know should i enter there
The quality of your experience may really depend on the camp you go to, and the area of Thailand you go to as well. We have tons of experience up in Chiang Mai, and none in the very popular islands in the south (so no comment on happenings down there). Chiang Mai is awesome because there are just tons and tons of fights, and because of that the process of placing a fighter against someone who won't be a mismatch is well thought out. Simple math, the more opponent options available, the higher chance of a great first, second or third fight experience. Also, some of these gyms are really experienced with beginner level fight introduction. Kru Daeng at Lanna Muay Thai has been shaping westerners towards first fights for probably a decade. Having someone who has guided that process for years is a huge thing. We haven't spent time with Joe at Honthong Gym, but that gym also seems to be one that is very fight friendly.
In general though, the best thing about Thailand is that fighting is seen as part of the training process, not some elite thing you do once you are really, really good. Everyone fights. So you are entering a kind of fight culture that can support what you are hoping to do.
I totally agree with James about letting your gym know that you really want to fight, so they can put you on that training path from the beginning. But disagree a bit with the "at the end" or "near the end" of your trip strategy. Lots and lots of people do the "at the end" bit, and its often a mistake. I can't tell you how many people we've seen make "at the end" plans and have their fight fall through for a 1,000 reasons, and get nothing. Also, the at-the-end mentality really puts fighting in the wrong context, as a culmination, instead of a part of your overall training and development. Both Sylvie and I strongly recommend that if you want to fight once you should really aim to fight at least twice. That way you don't put too much pressure on yourself to prove yourself, but it also allows your trainers to see you on a path. With a 2-3 month stay that is definitely long enough to fight twice, and maybe 3 times. I would suggest, as long as you feel comfortable, and your trainers are on board, to try and fight your first fight fairly early if you can, so you can soak it all in, make adjustments, come back to training. This is what is special about fighting in Thailand. Because there are so many fight opportunities and the culture is so accommodating to fighting itself (not only elites fight), you can fight in different ways.
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What is yours James?! I would love to know the things you favor as a coach and ex-fighter.
I can't really have a favorite technique because I don't really train consistently, but damn, there is nothing more beautiful than the general assault of knees. They are like body punches, but sharking upward so they are very hard to perceive. Especially Yodkhunpon's style of inward knee:
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For reference to others interested in this question, here are some of the materials cited:
#59 Satanmuanglek Numpornthep - Beautiful Clinch Throws (65 min) watch it here
#15 Yodkhunpon "The Elbow Hunter" part 2 - Escapes (48 min) watch it here
#56 Tanadet Tor. Pran49 - Mastering Long Clinch (63 min) watch it here
Bonus Session: The Importance of Building a Frame | 32 min - watch it here
#10 The Clinch Techniques of Yodwicha - Session 2 (34 min) watch it here
#4 Yodwicha - Clinch and Muay Khao (Knee) Specialist (35 min) - watch it here
#21 Rambaa Somdet - Clinch Trips & Throws (34 min) watch it here
And the Bank Lock Sylvie's Tips:
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This is a very good article, probably the best I've ever come across, detailing the local Muay Thai fight scene on the East Coast of the US, but connecting it up with National movement in the sport, and large scale philosophical values. If interested in any of these things do read:
Changing the Way Muay Thai is Done on the East Coast by Pari “Cherry” Aryafar
I really enjoyed the folding of description in with interview and leadership perspective, and the photos. Events and orgs are just never covered with this kind of scope and depth, totally refreshing to read. I can't go along with the idea that this is necessarily "real" Muay Thai, in that the USMF/IFMA line of representation necessarily pushes this emphasis, blurring the notable and significant differences amateur ruleset brings to the sport, but I can certainly go along with this is real-er Muay Thai, bringing local fighting and youth fighting closer to the fighting of Thailand. This article, this writing, creates excitement on every level providing an important keyhole into the efforts being done to stimulate and nourish Muay Thai in the United States.
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8 hours ago, roosh19 said:
I want as much of a thai experience as I can get
8 hours ago, roosh19 said:2 weeks at Fairtex
3 weeks at Banchamek.(And maybe a drop in session at Yokkao, or a 1 on 1 with Saenchai if I am lucky.)
These are some of the most tourist-oriented or at least non-Thai oriented gyms in Thailand (outside of Phuket). There is nothing wrong with that, they give positive experiences to westerners all the time, but what do you mean by "a Thai experience"? How you imagine a Thai experience is really important because it will probably determine how satisfied you feel by your time there.
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6 hours ago, Mathieu said:
He is living in phuket
Anyone in the Islands is pretty much off our radar right now. But it's great to know that there is someone who we can reach out to down the line if needed.
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On 5/19/2019 at 10:31 PM, Puny said:
Would like to see how this compares to other sports. Are humans becoming less interested in sports in general? Are we instead playing video games and competing in flying drones? How are the trends for boxing, baseball, football, gaming, etc.?
This is a very good point. Sports is definitely fighting for eyeball and joystick space. That's why I think comparison with similarly placed sports is important to do. The best comparison is probably with BJJ, because Muay Thai and BJJ were probably bouyed by the same UFC/MMA wave. In charts above I show that BJJ is trending up, and has passed Muay Thai, which instead is trending down. There are other interesting comparisons, for instance with TKD and Kickboxing. Here is a 2 year trend line for all 4 sports:
BJJ, on the rise. You can see how far TKD has fallen in this 15 year timeline of the same, catapulted to very high numbers I believe through Olympic inclusion:
Of course if you put Muay Thai on the trend line with Football (soccer) you wouldn't even be able to see it. The important thing for those looking to grow the sport and art of Muay Thai is that if Muay Thai finds itself in a relatively small niche of diminishing attention spans, a stressed environment, that fact that it has been trending downward in that environment for many, many years, and is being surpassed by BJJ which is rising, makes its future questionable.
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More YouTube data, the last 5 years
Looks like worldwide Muay Thai is holding it's own against BJJ as a search subject on YouTube, in all the charts I've run over the last 4 years this is literally the only positive chart I've seen for Muay Thai (if I can remember them all). But still, Muay Thai is downward trending, the same trend I'm seeing everywhere.
Muay Thai vs BJJ Worldwide 5 years (below)
On the other hand, in a place like the United States it's completely reversed. BJJ crushes Muay Thai as a YouTube search subject:
Muay Thai (blue) vs BJJ (red) USA 5 years (above)
There is probably a caveat here, in that people on YouTube likely search for Muay Thai fights, and they very likely don't search for BJJ matches much. So a worldwide edge in search subject worldwide is probably already pretty skewed (making the reverse in the USA even more dramatic) just by subject matter. Google web searches include so many other interest factors such as looking up champions, looking for a local gym, etc. Also note as mentioned, the USA Muay Thai trend is the same trend seen elsewhere, downward sloped. This downward slope is important because we see it everywhere.
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On 5/19/2019 at 7:00 PM, Alex said:
I wonder what YouTube search trends would look like? I feel like it’s become it’s on search engine with my generation.
Wow, so I just gave it go and did a little query; I was very (!) surprised that it looks like Google updated their trends function, and they DO show YouTube search data (Google owns YouTube). The results, not good, at least in the Worldwide scope. Here is 5 years of YouTube search data for the term "Muay Thai"
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57 minutes ago, Alex said:
I wonder what YouTube search trends would look like? I feel like it’s become it’s on search engine with my generation.
There is no way to see YouTube trends, that I know of, but YouTube is the 2nd largest Search Engine in the World.
58 minutes ago, Alex said:Maybe it’s just me but I don’t see the Olympics helping the popularity of the sport. I think we need to be on television
What the Olympics will do is that it will fill classes with youth, around the world. And youth entry is a huge factor in the health and popularity of a sport. Whether this would translate into long term health is another question. Olympic entry was a huge stimulus to TKD for instance, but that growth also had some notorious deleterious effects as well.
1 hour ago, Alex said:I wanna see Muay Thai fights on basic cable, like I used to see re-runs of UFC fight night on spike tv.
I believe there are regular Lumpinee fights coming to UFC Fight Pass. Jason Strout (of NYC) I heard is moving to Bangkok to do the commentary. That is pretty cool. It would be nice to have just regular ol' nothing special stadium fighting moving through the media pipeline.
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It's beautiful to see the legends of Muay Thai pass through the filter of female western fighters, embraced by that passion. If always felt like female Muay Thai is possibly the thing that might save Muay Thai as we hope it will be saved.
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Four years go I started tracking this data which suggests that the popularity of Muay Thai is actually in decline, at least in the share it has in searches conducted on Google. If you browse through the thread above you'll see that the suggestive, but still inconclusive trend is pretty strong in almost all dimensions of search of the subject and its terms. Here's an update on the data now in 2019. Things still looking bleak. As I've argued, we on the Internet with huge passion for the sport don't feel this decline because we are surrounded by like-minded people, thanks to personal choice and algorithms that show us what we like. But, if we really care about the sport and the art, we need to soberly embrace these trends so that we can work realistically to change them.
Above, as you can see the subject "Muay Thai" worldwide has declined, and has also declined in relation to BJJ. One could argue that the popularity of both sports has been parasitic to MMA and the UFC. Now BJJ has - at least along this vector - clearly passed Muay Thai as a parasitically boosted sport. Both are highly specialized. Both require an educated audience. Both have "home country" elite performer cultural roots.
Below, you can see that Muay Thai as a search term, in Thailand, in Thai language, has continued to decline. This means that worldwide trend issues of popularity cannot be counter-weighted by the health of the sport in the home country. Rather, its relative popularity is in decline both abroad and at home. Long term there are significant issues.
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That's a really good question! Most of the photos I see lately are of the statue made in his honor, but yes, totally there is a photo that has been associated with him as well. Doing a quick reverse image search seems to suggest that the association established on old Muay Thai Institute website postings. Here is an example https://www.muaythai-institute.com/history - as you can see, there are lots of old photos placed in proximity to historic descriptions. I doubt anyone knows who the photo is of.
An interesting side note about Nai Khanom Tom is that his entire story is based on only 7 lines of verse in an epic poem, embellished as the years have gone on.
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Here is a discussion zone for the Rambaa Somdet M16 Muay Thai Library session (published 5/17/2019), which is pretty chalk full of technique. There is so much in it is difficult to total. One of the coolest things in it is the Pistol-Whip Elbow that he teaches within the clinch. A GIF from when he first taught it to Sylvie a few years ago:
In any case, this is a space where patrons (and others) can seek clarity or have back and forth on some of the details in Rambaa's fighting approach.
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9 hours ago, James Poidog said:
I think with the liver, it has to be hit dead on to really get that ko effect.
I think early in the fight, yes, the target for a KO is pretty small, but if you keep hitting that area the sensitive "shock" area actually grows over time. A forth round near miss will put someone out if that rib area has been peppered several times, whereas the same shot might have done nothing much (visible) in the first. Much as the leg starts to swell and be more ready to go, I think the body protecting the liver also grows more ready to shock. (As I've written elsewhere, I also think this expanding zone of sensitivity is even more dramatic if there have been re-hydration problems from weight cut, etc.)
Edit: In the larger sense, what interests me is how these kinds of attacks require additional investment. You have to insist on them. In some ways all strikes require investment. You don't throw 3 jabs all fight and really have "a jab". You need to jab regularly and repeatedly. But, there are some kinds of attacks that have huge pay offs (fight enders), but usually after a series of only so-so effects. Just to snag a recent ringside example I had from a month or so ago in a local stadium, I was watching a farang fighter face a Thai who was much better than him in the overall sense (but had not fought in 3 years, called "off the couch" so to speak). The farang wasn't bad, he was in better shape though. After several close calls in the first, in the second the westerner went to a very insistent elbow. Over and over and over. 95% were not landing at all. But it just started stressing the Thai, and stress became distress. It was incredible to just see the Thai melt (he's a friend of ours). The insistence made it happen. Throw only 3 of those, the whole fight goes another way. Throw 20, he just overwhelmed the Thai. It feels like this is a kind of secret automatic win strategy that few go for. It amazes me that these big payday attacks are just relatively under-used. And I wonder why? It is fighter psychology? Lack of knowledge or awareness? The only fight ender everyone knows and loves is the head KO.
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This round is a good example of pressure elbow fighting from Yodkhunpon, how the misses are all incorporated into a generalized pressure:
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The 'UK Muay Thai Kick' / The Golden Kick - Differences?
in Muay Thai Technique, Training and Fighting Questions
Posted
For forum readers The Golden Kick can be seen in these two rough study video edits below, and written about by Sylvie in How to Improve Your Muay Thai Kick: