Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu
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Posts posted by Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu
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I was expecting Ashley to be better in the clinch because I have seen fights of hers in Thailand so I assumed she had done some clinch training there, while Tiffany I have only seen fight in the West and she probably didnt have access to advanced clinch training.
Really, just because you train in Thailand doesn't really mean you train well in clinch at all, especially as a female, and certainly not advanced clinch. Ashley's clinch looked fairly rudimentary - physically strong, but basic - to me. Sylvie had a very hard time finding clinch instruction or training her first two and a half years here, even though she pushed for it. It takes a long time to develop clinch. After Tiffany lost to Caley in the clinch, and Caley is one of the best female clinch fighters in the world, principally because she's trained it for years, it looked like she had paid attention to this weakness in the Alldis fight. But now I'm not so sure. In any case, it's something that surprised me in the fight.
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I was surprised that Tiffany looked like she struggled in the clinch, after looking like she had improved in that area vs Alldis. Ashely's clinch really wasn't all that sophisticated, mostly just a basic plumb grab and turn, but almost every time they locked up she had the advantage.
I was also impressed with Ashley overall, not only her skill set, but also her size. She's fought much smaller than this, but it didn't really look like the size mismatch I anticipated. Eventually Tiffany just wore her down with all the multiple strikes, but for a time there (I think in the 3rd round?) I felt there was an opening for her to win the fight. It wasn't what I expected.
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If Jaa crushes her opponent she should attempt to get in the 48kg S-Cup and dominate it like Buakaw did
I would seriously doubt PJJ crushing a girl with 6 or 7 kg on her. I suspect she'll just point fight her, and turn her a few times in the clinch.
But it sounds like, if you had to guess, Saya will not fight PJJ. I'm fairly sure PJJ's family wants to fight her, but I guess they don't really have much to say about the matter. In the end, for them it will be money that will talk. PJJ fights where the money is.
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Back to your question about opponents, she has close connections to people in the US. She may not get a high caliber opponent, but she could probably get a fight through them
If so, it would likely be an amateur fighter fighting her first pro fight There just are almost zero 100 lb fighters in the US. Amy Davis, I don't know if you remember her, she fought in Japan, at 105 lbs couldn't find someone to fight in North America for years, and had to eventually move to MMA. It was very sad.
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Charlie, did you get any sense that she wanted to fight Phetjee Jaa? This seems like the most natural matchup, no? They are bringing Phetjee Jaa in for this circus matchup now, creating buzz, but obviously with PJJ at 44 kg, a fight with Saya seems like it is inevitable.
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Addressing your comment about her clinch, I think she was doing a Japanese thing where you don't boast about yourself / undervalue everything you do. While she said that she does not care about it or train it, I imagine that that is not the case at all. However, if she does indeed retire upon graduation, 2 years from now, I can understand why she isn't going to concentrate on it that much.
It could be that she was just being modest about clinch, but what sent up a red flag was the somewhat honest sounding claim that she remembered the techniques she learned when she was in Thailand. From everything that Sylvie told me she really never got beyond the very basics in Thailand, things like how to tension the body, certain positions. You can't really learn clinch that way. It would be like learning wrestling from a few "moves". You have to train it hours and hours and hours, really for years. Sylvie's been at it for maybe a year and a half, heavy work, every day against adequate training partners (which Saya likely does not have, they are hard to find even in Thailand), and she's still only progressed to maybe intermediate clinch (which is still very high for a female fighter). Clinch in Muay Thai is maybe a little bit like "ground game" in MMA. You can't just add it, or learn some principles. It has to be rooted in the heavy practice of an art. Even if she has a trainer who is knowledgeable in clinch, he would have to be near her physical size, and she'd have to be dedicating pretty heavy hours to it to progress. This was a problem Sylvie faced in Thailand before moving to Pattaya. It's not easy to train for a female that size even in Thailand.
re: "Being a student means that she doesn't have a lot of freedom when she can leave the country so odds are she is going to be fighting Japanese fighters or foreign fighters brought to Japan, plus it seems that she wants to fight in America or Europe before she retires."
If she stays at 100 lbs, I'm curious which foreign fighters she would imagine she could fight? Perhaps there are some in Europe, but this is a very small pool of fighters. It was cool that she thought Lion Fight would be a great show, but it seems that Lion Fight is having some cash flow issues. I suspect there would not be a kind of money that would be able to bring her to the US. And again, who would she fight at 100 lb, or even 105 lbs?
re: She reminds me a lot of Erika.They were both very quiet yet serious about Muay Thai, but they mixed their love of Muay Thai with Japanese Fighting Spirit for lack of a better term, so they prefer to go forward.
I know Sylvie really liked her. Perhaps one day fates will meet up and bring them together again. It was certainly a wonderful coincidence that had them training together.
re: Her coach actually asked if i was you, when he saw me. Saya just laughed at him and said no.
So awesome Charlie! Makes me smile.
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Really nice to hear her thoughts Charlie, great little interview. I fear she'll never fight Sylvie again...at least, it will probably be smart not to. That she doesn't really train clinch, and Sylvie herself counts that she didn't really know clinch the last time they fought back in 2014, it would probably not turn out that well, just as a match up of styles. In that vein, it's probably best that she fight Phetjee Jaa, as soon as possible, while she still has a weight advantage. But again, the clinch even at this point would be too much. All the top Thai fighters are clinch fighters. Puengsiam, Loma, Jee Jaa.
Nice though that she hopes to fight once a month, and on Lion Fight as well. Thanks for bringing this all forward. Great reporting.
p.s. it's also kind of funny that Saya doesn't know who holds the WMC belt...because I'm not sure that anyone else does. Your guess of Little Tiger is about as good as any, though I thought she lost it to Pizza (who then retired) in their last fight.
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Very good linked article by Joanna Harper, who is a trans female distance runner and was a strong voice at the IOC meeting. Most compelling are her own studies of trans distance times.
Do transgender athletes have an edge? I sure don’t.
"I understood that this would happen to me, too. But I was surprised how fast it happened. Within three weeks of starting hormone therapy in August 2004, I was markedly slower. I didn’t feel any different while I was running. But I could no longer match my previous times. By 2005, when I was racing in the women’s category, the difference was astounding. I finished one 10K in 42:01 — almost a full five minutes slower than I’d run the same course two years earlier as a man.
Interestingly, when I looked up my times in USA Track & Field’s age-grading tables — used to compare runners of all ages and both sexes — I found that I was just as competitive as a 48-year-old woman as I had been as a 46-year-old man.
I was curious whether my experience was typical. There had never been any studies of transgender athletes, only of transgender women generally. So over the next seven years, I collected almost 200 race times from eight distance runners who were transgender women (including myself as runner No. 6).
My research, published last month in the Journal of Sporting Cultures and Identities, found that collectively, the eight subjects got much slower after their gender transitions and put up nearly identical age-graded scores as men and as women, meaning they were equally — but no more — competitive in their new gender category. (The outlier was a runner who had raced recreationally as a 19-year-old male and became serious about the sport —"
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The International Olympic Committee has revised their guidelines for transgender athletes. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/transgender-athletes-olympics_us_56a5bc6ee4b0d8cc109a8e9
There was a great discussion on the Ronda Rousey thread about cisgender and transgender women competing together.
So interesting Kristen. So basically they are defining the female gender by two elements: public declaration, and minimization of testosterone, and leaving genitalia out:
2.1. The athlete has declared that her gender identity is female. The declaration cannot be changed, for sporting purposes, for a minimum of four years.
2.2. The athlete must demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to her first competition (with the requirement for any longer period to be based on a confidential case-by-case evaluation, considering whether or not 12 months is a sufficient length of time to minimize any advantage in women's competition).
2.3. The athlete's total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category.
This is kind of epic.
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Is there a validity period for the promo code or does it not expire?
I think its best to treat it as a non-expiring code. If we ask them if it expires, they'll probably put a date on it!
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Hi All,
Does anyone please have any advice on what options would be to train in Thailand for longer than a holiday period? Any accommodation options near training camps safer for women?
Thanks
Jen
Jen, do you already know which gyms you are looking at, or the area of Thailand you might want to stay long term?
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Just read up on Alex Gong (in the video). What a tragedy.
On August 1, 2003, after a hit and run driver crashed into Gong's parked car in the Fairtex Gym parking lot in San Francisco, Gong pursued the car on foot. Gong caught up and confronted the driver, who was still in his car at a nearby intersection. Witnesses say the driver then shot Gong at point blank range and fled in his vehicle. Gong was pronounced dead at the scene.
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Very nice seeing young Jongsanan. And then there is the English speaking instructor knowing/showing less than his Thai demo guy. Always this gap between very good, western boiled-down, rationalized technique, and actual 150 fight technique.
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I think that it's an equilibrium between "power" and "control".
If you spin then it's likely that you have more power (momentum) in the kick (because you can't stop the movement)
while if you don't spin and stop the kick in the middle, then I guess you didn't put so much power into the kick and the momentum is low enough that you can stop your movement...
No ?
There are many ways of generating power, spinning around is only one of them. Sakmongkol was one of the hardest kicking Thai, and he trains to not spin around. In fact you almost never see top Thais spinning around and they kick with great force.
Think about if you were swinging an axe hard attempting to chop a tree down. Would you expect to spin around if you missed your target? If you were swinging a baseball bat, trying to hit the ball, would you say you only were swinging hard if you spun around in a circle?
I believe that like the swing of a bat, not spinning around forces you to generate more of your power with your hips, and throws the force more forward, at and through the target.
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I just came back from a 2.5 months in Thailand, my second trip, and I would like to ask some questions from anyone here who has spent an extended period of time living in Thailand if you could share your observations on life in Thailand. I've been playing around with the idea of career change for quiet some time now to change to a computer related career that will allow me to work from anywhere as long as I have access to a computer, which would open up the possibility of living in Thailand for an extended period of time, so I was hoping someone here can give me your honest opinion, the good/the bad/the ugly, about what living in Thailand is like when you're not just there for a vacation, because even after spending a total of 3 months there, I feel like my view is being clouded by the initial excitement of just being a tourist on vacation and obviously my lack of knowledge of thai language prevents me from understanding many conversations and cultural intricacies so I feel like you might have better insight. Would you ever consider moving there permanently?
Thank you
Hi TZ22 - I've been working from Thailand online ever since Sylvie and I moved here, and it is really the only way we could have stayed. The problem with working from Thailand isn't really the connection issues - Sylvie wrote a detailed blog post on all the things you may face when trying to stay connected - but rather with having the job itself. I already was working online before we moved. I'm a Social Media marketing consultant and already had clients for several years. IF you can get dependable work online, it is definitely feasable technically. Thailand's digital infrastructure has really improved. There are of course things you can run into and may need to work around, but it can be done.
I will say, working from Thailand, online, is just like working from anywhere else. It is not a vacation. I spend very long hours inside the apartment, sometimes not seeing much outside the walls for days or weeks. I could literally be anywhere, in any room. Plus, and this depends where you live, but generally if you are going to live here long term you will find a place to stay which is cheaper, which means that it will be a part of town that is not vacation-y at all. You live where Thais live. For us this is fantastic, because we love Thailand and the Thai culture. But it is not glamorous. For instance we live in Pattaya which is notorious for its tourism of various kinds, but we hardly see any of it. We are in Thai neighborhoods, or Sylvie is at the gym. That's the way we like it. Pattaya, for this reason, is actually more "Thai" than Chiang Mai was for us, despite having a tourist reputation. The division between tourist areas and Thai areas is pretty strong.
Long term westerners have different reactions to the culture. It seems like many of them get frustrated with the Thai way. It is pretty common to hear westerners talk about "The Thais" with an eye-roll or what not. It's an ex-Pat thing to complain about Thailand. Sylvie and I don't get it. Even when we run into big difficulties, or systemic limitations, they feel okay. You learn to just roll with and appreciate everything for what it is. There is no place we'd rather be.
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This (turning the foot out while also stepping out) is what I'm working on right now, while trying to stay light on the ball of the foot and pivoting.
Sooo many parts to a movement, it feels like learning to drive with a manual shift ;)
Don't know if you've seen this, but this is the classic Bas Rutten video on generating power with the out-turned foot.
The Thai round kick is one of the most deceptively complicated techniques for westerns I think. Sylvie for years had serious trouble with it, despite lots and lots of kicking. It was never fluid or fast. But she eventually kicked herself to a powerful version through tons of work on the bag and pads. But then you see Thai kids kicking fluidly in almost no time. I think a lot of it has to do with the looseness and openness of the hips (culturally), and probably something to do with the Thai squat. But in the end there is no "Thai kick", there are thousands of Thai kicks. I've seen Thais open up and turn their standing foot very wide, sometimes even ending up with it pointed the other way. And I've seen Thais not turn or pivot on the foot at all and get great power.
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This exact question is why I had a shoulder injury to begin with. I torqued my arm so hard to swing my hips and legs around I tore my labrum. Since then I have consulted a couple different people about the arm thing. My coach at the gym says I have to, and a martial artist of 20 plus years says I don't, and that it's better that I don't, as it's almost an unnecessary movement. Idk whose advice to follow per se, but I am absolutely paranoid that I'm going to do it again and every time I go to make that movement on either side I think I subconsciously just stop myself from completing the movement.
There is no "right" answer on this. These are all just different kicking techniques, and there is a ton of variability in Muay Thai. It's become very common to drive the hip forward with the whip of the arm. 5 years ago Sean Wright explained the torque of the arm really nicely to Sylvie, likening it to how a runner swings their arms when they run. But it should be lose and easy, like that, like a runner. One would not tear their labrum running, for instance. You can't really catch the audio, but you can see it here:
But yes, you can also generate torque by stepping across, or combining the two movements even. Or turning your stepping foot "out" to open and spring load the hip. But very differently old Boran fighters in the Muay Chaiya tradition, didn't even move their kicking arm at all, they just kept it in place by their face. This is how Kru Lek teaches the Chaiya kick in Bangkok now. It looks very "odd" to a modern eye, but it shows how much difference there can be in Muay Thai and it's history.
The decision on which technique needs, in the west, to be made probably using two criteria: what is most comfortable or expressive of explosiveness, stability, fluidity for me? and: where am I going to get the best instruction continuity from my teachers? In Thailand most of the time there isn't much correction at all. Everyone finds their way, mimicking others, adopting some things, discarding others.
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Seems like they're really cracking down, which makes no sense considering they really need tourism right now.
I agree that makes no sense from maybe an economic standpoint, but the country is in a difficult position politically. Don't want to move towards a political discussion, but we should remain sensitive. The country may find itself becoming insular for ideological reasons. I believe the Prime Minister recently off-handedly joked about removing westerners from the country. Just as other, western countries can have very strong political shifts against aliens, Thailand may too. It's a push-pull. The country wants to remain an international, multi-cultural hub of business and ideas, but it also must confirm its identity. Borders are one of the first places this is usually done. So complicated!
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The Ughi fight is very difficult to watch. Not because of the beat down, but the uncomfortable stance and guard. I tried to rewatch that fight the other night.
There are some amazing things about that fight, one of them being that despite being completely outclassed in the ring Chantal actually has a moment when she could have finished Jorina, she just wasn't committed to her clinch. She very nearly had a knee to Jorina's head. I'm not sure why she didn't just try to clinch up Jorina, continually. She actually may have won that fight because Jorina didn't seem to know how to clinch, and clinch is Chantal's one dependable attack. Maybe it was that Santai tried to change her fight style in training camp (a guess)? It's a mystery.
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6. A copy of bank statement or evidence of adequate finance for the last 6 months with a minimum balance of $7,000 (every months) (The name of the applicant must clearly appear on it)
So interesting. So instead of taking a more friendly approach, they are trying to take a tougher approach? Geez. I mean, if you are going to stay for 6 months you probably are going to need around a $1,000 a month but for some the timing could be very problematic. Nobody can just save up and go?
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Just to update, I have read that since the new 6-month visa started being issued, there is no longer a 60/90 day tourist visa option available. The rules are constantly changing though, so check with your local Thai Consulate before you travel!
wow Emma. So what are the current visa options? Only the 6 month visa?! With bank account proof?
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The above is a pretty awesome recent fight between Thanonchai, famous for his never-say-die attitude, and Phet-U-Tong. What's pretty interesting to me about this fight, and Sylvie and I talked about this when watching it, is how Thanonchai responds to the common righty-lefty tactic Phet-U-Tong uses here. You see it from Yodsanklai (lefty), and Sittichai (lefty) used it against Roosmalen in his recent Glory fight - but it's available to righties too, when facing strong left hand punchers. Basically, lots of rear-leg high kicks pinning and punishing the power hand. Phet-U-Tong a few rounds in really starts trying to pin Thanonchai's power left cross, and Thanonchai just tries punching through it. The stubbornness of Thanonchai makes the fight really tense.
The eventual result, once Phet-U-Tong starts to tire is dramatic.
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Interesting, are you at liberty to elaborate on the details?
It's a very strong story we've heard. There seems to be distinct nationalism behind a lot of Chinese promotions, basically they are there to show the superiority of Chinese fighters, so pretty much everything gets skewed to the Chinese fighter. Sometimes this is the size of the opponent, sometimes its the rules, the reffing, the accommodations. The whole experience ends up feeling like some kind of assault that fighters aren't quite ready for psychologically. Now, there are of course many promotions, and this is a very big generalization, but it also is a kind of theme we have heard across the board. Hell, I even know of a well-known persona who flew out there under the advice of a friend who saw it as a quick money grab, and had such a harsh experience she basically retired from fighting. I also remember the almost all Chinese card that was put on for the Queen's Birthday a year ago, which matched up Chinese fighters against Thai fighters (in Thailand), in a production that was beamed back to China. We watched this Thai girl put against a pretty big and tough Chinese fighter. She was rag-dolled all over the ring with illegal throws of every kind. It was pretty rough to see, and clearly the Thai girl had no idea what she was in for - in Thailand. The general picture that emerges is that these tend to be very pro-Chinese productions where the non-Chinese fighter is often at a disadvantage, sometimes disadvantages they don't expect. We've heard several western female fighters say: "Well, I'm not doing that again." Valentina seems to have that look on her face too.
On the other hand Chinese promotions are really on the rise, there's a big money draw growing there. With the dramatic increase of Chinese tourism in Thailand, the growth of the Chinese economy and middle class, this is just going to expand. Lots of Thais are finding work there, both as fighters and as trainers.
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The Chinese refs do seem to be more active in restricting the clinch. I'm not too surprised many female fighters are having trouble in China, female athletes from China do very well in the Olympics, soccer and other sport and on top of that they have a heritage of martial arts.
No, the trouble in China isn't that the opponents are so good (though this fighter's awesome). It's more about how they are treated there, their experience of fighting, the stay, everything. Valentina looks really pissed, and very confused. We've heard from a lot of westerners who just had very bad Chinese fight experiences. Female western fighters are drawn there because there is very big money being offered, but almost all of them that we've talked to regret it.
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Looking for a small/quiet gyms?
in Gym Advice and Experiences
Posted
There are some "not many people" options. I understand that introversion can be strong. I'm not sure if you mean not many westerners (people who speak English and may try to talk with you), or not many people at all, Thais included?
One option I can think of is training at Sylvie's gym, Petchrungruang, here in Pattaya, but only in the mornings. In the mornings there are very few people, in fact sometimes it is only Pi Nu (the head instructor/gym owner) and Sylvie. Usually though, not more than 4 or 5 people total. These are very quiet times. In the afternoon it's much busier, with Thais and westerners mixed. But it's not a big gym, it's a family style gym. Once you get the mornings down, maybe you would be more open to the afternoons - or you could strategically come earlier or later in the afternoons, when training hasn't started up much, or is winding down. Another one that is pretty small is Sor. Klinmee gym in Pattaya, again, another family style gym. Maybe 15 people in the space in the afternoons, from what we saw (Sylvie trains there sometimes for clinch). Not sure what the mornings are like, they are probably slow.
Another thing that you could do is to go to a non-expensive gym, but use the extra money to invest in private sessions with an instructor. Usually these are done between the mornings and afternoons. If so, you might have the gym to yourselves, or not many people around.