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Cool to look at. Two useless arms. Conor has a basic Thai clinch position. Arm loop + inside frame. Cerrone exerts no control or pressure over either arm, especially on the shoulder strike side. This lazy over position on the frame drives me crazy. Happens all the time. What's beautiful about this is how Conor is giving ground, which really sets it all up. Backwards movement in clinch is key to so many dominant movements. watch the slow motion of the strikes here: https://web.facebook.com/watch/?v=2852823818097683 This is a pretty fascinating strike in that it's set up by a general grinding forward, and the lack of pressure or control, but also because it develops from a very common position in Muay Thai, so much so it would be pretty easy to get lazy about it. No Thai would just grind forward like that in the clinch, which is a pretty big factor here, but they very well might not dig their head in deep enough, like Cerrone, to control the shoulder and collar bone, or not snake in hard enough from the top arm position. Because Thais clinch train in very lengthy sessions habits and position assumptions do develop - and I find these unconscious shapes pretty interesting. Though shoulder strikes are perfectly legal in Thailand's Muay Thai, they really are almost never seen, likely due to evolving aesthetics, and maybe a sense of sportsmanship. In short, this is a kind of a "hole" in the form of Thai clinch, I suspect. Proper technique probably closes the hole pretty firmly, but proper,. or optimized technique is not always happening, or even trained. From this position Cerrone, in Muay Thai, would be most concerned with the elbow. The shoulder isn't even thought about. It's a blindspot. Blindspots happen in fighting styles and disciplines, shaped by rulesets, cultural aesthetics, and training practices. The shoulder is actually a hidden appendage and leverage point in lots of high-level Thai clinch technique, but it's not thought of as a direct weapon. I imagine that it would likely be seen as "base", perhaps in the way that Yodkhupon's amazing high volume elbow fighting style was looked down upon, despite winning at the highest level (simultaneous stadium belts in the Golden Age). I personally find this strike really interesting because the McGregor position is a dominant one that Sylvie works herself toward and secures in lots of fights. She loops that right arm hard, and is always exploring developments from there. This is a Dieselnoi position. Most often it's considered better to control the neck with the left arm, and work towards knees and turns, but this frame up exposing the open side, pinning it open is definitely an active position. So much of this strike is dependent on Cerrone grinding forward, allowing McGregor to bounce back and load. But it does seem that the shoulder strike is a perfect fit in the vocabulary from this position, even if under neutral pressure. There is a lot to be developed here. Even as a threat (as a miss), it can get the opponent to posture up too high, and set up knees or a deep turn.

I see it like this. There are two main reasons you want to run. 1. Show dedication so the gym invests in you. 2. Build stamina for a fight. If running causes injury there are other ways you can show dedication. And there are other strategies to build stamina. In my experience Thai trainers notice dedication and acknowledge it. I wouldn't be too worried if you can't run so and so many miles, but still show up and demonstrate dedication.

I suppose I'm just looking to get a better idea about the expectations of various gyms including running frequency, distance, and pacing. Just knowing what to be prepared for so I don't crash and burn. I'm over 30 now so a major concern is the balance between pushing through 'hurt' and avoiding actual injuries because my time is running out and I'd rather compete at less than ideal than not compete at all due to injury. Basically I'm getting old and trying to figure out how to deal with it while trying to fight before it's too late.

A good example of this is that Cerrone has his "head in" pretty decently, in the sense that he's protecting from the elbow from the controlling arm, which in Thailand's Muay Thai would be the main concern (other than being manipulated and turned). This is a "not bad" head position, something that would not get punished. But, in this case, especially because he's grinding forward, he's exposed to the shoulder. The top of head here needs to be really tucked it, on the shoulder/collar/jaw bone, tick-in, which is a very strong Thai clinch response. But, where it is, is the "good enough" position in many Thailand fights because there is no concern for the shoulder strike.

I'm, personally, not interested in its use in MMA, or this fight. I think because it came out of a common Thai clinch position it maybe exposes a few holes in the position, specifically in Thailand's Muay Thai (the ruleset and fighting style in the country, which is what I'm most familiar with). I'm not really openly asking anything though. I'm just thinking through the position, from a traditional Muay Thai perspective. There are always blindspots in fighting styles and customs, this seems like one of them, in a very narrow sense. Imagining this position with more optimal postures on the Cerrone side, it would be much harder to execute, but it is interesting to think through it's possible uses, even if more well-defended. This is complicated though by how it might be reffed or perceived within the traditional Thai ring.

Are you asking if the shoulder strike has made clear what is not apparent in that particular tie up itself, at the first sight? or, if this was an opportunistic take by McGregor to exploit Cerrone’s in the ring tendencies?

Are you wondering: Will I have to run? Or, looking for a gym which doesn't push you to run, or will accept running less? What are your major concerns? - It's cool that you are getting your miles up in advance

Hi, I just spent nearly a year training at Petchrungruang in Pattaya where, even though the fighters run everyday, they liked, to at least offer, the foreigners a 10km run 3x a week. Running wasn’t mandatory at all though if you wanted to fight they did want you to run. Personally I struggled slightly with the impact on my knees but I did get used to it, I just had to struggle through. I found that the early morning runs were a great way to interact with the more serious trainers at the gym. Petchrungruang was really good and for awhile, after a fight, when I physically couldn’t run, offered me the option of cycling which still gave me the benefits of the early morning run. Personally I think any gym that sees you want to make the effort of getting up at 4am to run but understands that sometimes you just physically can’t, is a gym worth going to, though it may take trial and error to find this gym, and this fit, that works for you

Found this thread while I was searching for info on sparring without shin guards. I'm currently sparring without shin guards (and mouth guard lost it cannot get hold of a new one for a while) and although I love it, the pain is getting to me. Obviously it's light sparring but we block shin on shin and my partner has the boniest hardest shinbones I've ever experienced and while my shins are full of dents, swollen, puddle of blood and stuff between skin and shin bone he doesn't feel it. My shins are burning most of the time. I do the hot water towel massage thing. And put liniment on before training. And tiger balm before bed. Anything help to help speed up the hardening process? I've heard something about luke warm salt water should help?

This is a somewhat complicated question in that, especially in Thailand, there's a moral component to alcohol consumption that will be included in how it's viewed by your gym. Trainers who drink aren't viewed as super dependable by those who don't, students who drink are socially engaging with those trainers, but will also be dismissed in some ways by those in the gym who don't. If you're showing up and working hard, you'll be appreciated for that. If you're tired and drained - even if it's occasional - and it's known that the reason behind it is that you were out drinking, you'll be judged for that in addition to what you'd be chastised for if you were just having a "bad" day. I'm in the same school as Madeline, where I just can't afford feeling shittier than I would if it were simply a rough night of sleep or being tired from the work I'm already doing. So, I abstain for the same reasons I don't eat sugar or stay up too late to watch Netflix or whatever else. If it's compromising my training, it goes. But people have different goals and different motivations. The 5AM runs make me a total asshole for the day and I still go do those, so we all make compromises, hahaha.

Agreed, . Since first posting this question on the forum, have given up all booze for good now. Feel way way better, and don't even miss it. But maybe wasn't much of a sacrifice, never was a big drinker anyway. Seems like it's one of those things that's just socially expected of you.

Thank you all for the kind reception. It is interesting that the more I watch and learn and study of the origins; the more I am convinced that the core of Muay Thai is about maintaining awareness of "posture". I see this from the subtle corrections of Dieselnoi in training to the judging of fights where frequently blows to "posture" are considered to be just as damaging as an elbow to the forehead or a teep to the throat. As someone who needs to restore my posture: I'm convinced I'll be sticking around for a while. I guess this is day 13 of 200 knees, and I've added in 200 teeps as I had hoped. While I feel stronger; I also have had some nasty mornings. The first fifteen minutes of the day are hard. And if I sit down in anything soft for more than a half an hour; I have to start over. I would like to share to those following where my current focus is, and at least one resource I'm using to get my mind and body connected through motion. My injury (and re-injury) came about because of a few factors: I worked hard and pushed hard in everything I did (my posture was out of control) I had really weak glutes, lower back and flexors. (my posture was out of control) Lack of formal training of any sort, plus life style contributed a bit to (2). The first one; well... I was always the smallest, weakest, shortest and slowest growing up. My compensation was to push to the edge of my abilities. I often didn't break. Time, however, offers no quarter to "often". Oh. Gee. I guess my posture was... out of control. In the body, there are two central outer "lines of stuff" which hold everything together at a superficial level. Some texts use the term "myofascial lines". You can find tracks from these in several different disciplines. Just follow some acupuncture or acupressure charts and they are obvious. The "front" and "back" lines work together as we breath and move. They hold our guts in place, stabilize our breathing and ensure that when we do stupid stuff like try folding ourselves in half; that we don't actually fold in half. These are the same lines responsible for holding us in the fetal position while in the womb and then extending us the other way so we can start crawling with our head up. Cool huh. My draw to "Knees on the Bag" comes from the study of these two lines. I was struggling to answer this question: "Why wont my left hamstring shut off?" And "Why does my right foot hurt?" The simple action of kneeing a bag properly, with the mental queue of drawing your hands in an arc from your eyebrows down to your hips and tucking your heal to your butt happens to involve every actor along both of the text-book "front" and "back" lines. My pain goes away while I engage all of the actors. Interesting? But it can come back when I'm "resting" or static for too long. Why is this? The first obvious theory is that there is some binding occurring along the lines. I sort of know that, as I have an MRI showing me one such "binding". (It's really not that bad! Even if I had some surgery to scrape some stuff off, I'd then have to still fix the problem which is present causing the situation. And deal with the scar tissue and the recovery and .... ) To find the binding; I admit to enlisting some help. Pictures taken of me standing and walking revealed an obvious point. While walking, I was never fully shifting my weight into my left hip and my right arm almost didn't move. While standing and breathing, my rib cage was tipped with the front bottom "forward" and my pelvis was canted top-forward. To pull from text books; my bell (rib cage) was rung and my bowl (pelvis) was spilling. The "going into the left hip" thing has an easy solve. It's a pretty common pattern for us humans to fall into since we have more lung on our right side than the left. The solve for this may be as simple as just "switching stances". Although if something else other than our natural propensity to be right-dominant due to our anatomy is at play; more work is required. To identify that work; we must look at what can get the rib cage out of a "rung forward" position. The hips will probably follow. The suggestion from the person taking the pictures was a simple one "just breathe into your back". Sure. Easy. So then he showed me how to do that and almost on the first breath... "OMGWTFISTHAT!" was my shocked cry as some muscles in my mid back started into spasms. Once everything calmed down and I'd gone through some careful breathing sequences in the right posture; my rib cage and hips were back parallel like they're supposed to be. I felt nothing; no pain, no tension, no burning left hamstring feeling like it was going to snap my knee off. I also knew it wouldn't stay. I had what I needed for the day. Some data to work with. Some bits to study. What "breathing into my back" did for me was wake up by force some muscles and fascia which probably hadn't moved in a very very long time. Now to why I think this area is interesting for this forum. The area in mid back where I was bound up is directly related to the area of engagement in your back as you wind up for a cross. The back and front work together. Focus thoughts on the 5th rib next time you throw a strike of any sort at a bag. Below is a brief word map of the two lines from our waist up. Lets see if I can get my head around what's going on. (Bone attachments in Bold) Back: << stuff below >> Sit Bones --> Sacrum --> Lumbar muscles into erector spinae --> Occiput --> Over TopOfHead --> Frontal Bone (just behind your eyebrows) Front: <<from below >> --> Pubic bone --> RA --> 5th rib --> Some little bits near collar bone --> Mastoid Process (Jaw) --> Scalp Notice two things. First; these do not connect. Second; throwing knees, teeps, low kicks, a right cross ALL leverage a small contraction of the RA's at the 5th rib. Some of the acceleration of the weight transfer and the shock of impact goes through this attachment. At the same time the RA draws down, the erector spinea's (those ropey muscles on either side of your spine) also extend in coordination, but also in such a way as to coordinate around the fact that the rib cage is expanding and contracting in the center. I find facinating the mechanical (bone) attachments of these lines. In the back, we have a very strong double attachment to the sitbones + sacrum (which must move mostly together other than a little twisting), and then no anchor from the sacrum all the way to the skull. In the front, we have anchors at "root", "heart" , "voice", "mouth". Know why people clench their teeth when winding themselves up to deliver a strike? Oh! Cool! I'll be working on this area for the week. I of course welcome thoughts. To add a suggested reference for this: "Anatomy Trains" Thomas W. Myers. This is a wonderful book. There are several out there which cover this sort of thing, and I find Myers the most easy to understand and approach. I've used this book to help with some massage sessions for family injuries over the years; but never tried to apply much of it to myself. And some good pictures here since I probably shouldn't scan in anything from Myers. https://thetaichieffect.com/the-anatomy-of-connection/fascial-lines-in-our-body/ Adding in functional and spiral lines will be a topic for near future. I have a lot more to digest about how these superficial lines work first.

Since I started working out six times a week sometimes twice a day I gave up my moderate ( at most ) alcohol consumption and now I just drink on a very infrequent basis. I can’t afford to not feel my best at my workouts. (If I was still young and single I’d probably drink a little more) but now I focus on adequate sleep, fuel, hydration and very limited/infrequent alcohol i want to feel my best. Sometimes I get ’ tired’ during the work outs or class but don’t give up. ( plus there is no option to give up during my Muay Thai class. You do what he says. Period. Only exception is an injury ) If I drank I’d think i’d just suck wind and not be at my best. Not worth it to me.

I'm not sure one can advise about mind- or mood-altering substances over the internet, but it is pretty amazing how devastating alcohol can be to ex-fighters in Thailand. Of course alcoholism a problem all over the world, but there is something about it and Muay Thai that has a deep cultural groove to it, and a fairly strong moral judgement as well, it seems.