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By Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu · Posted
Historical Spheres of Influence in 20th Century Muay Thai This is only a very rough sketch from compiled reading, but thinking about spheres of Muay Thai influence an historical trends. If I state things as fact this is only a parlance of my assumptions. On some topics I've read deeply into the history, in others I have only brushed over (for lack of English language record) and may make speculative leaps. It is hopeful that this informs, but not as an expert. Much more to set a broad picture, a framework, for real historical telling. It seems to me that any history of Muay Thai should include all 4 spheres. Chinese The Chinese, who have been in Thailand close to 1,000 years, and perhaps even 2,000, at the turn of the 20th century were a huge political and economic influence upon Bangkok, and Siam in general. Chinese triads and secret societies (read here) ostensibly ran all gambling (from which at one point made up 25% of the Siamese government's revenue through taxation of gambling), as well as large sectors of the economy such as the Chinese workforce on the docks of Bangkok, rice-mills and saw-mills, and tin mining in Phuket. Read Gambling, the State and Society in Siam, c. 1880-1945 here. When gambling was outlawed in a series of moralizing legal steps by King Vajiravudh in the 1910s, this was probably largely to fundamentally break off the government's dependency on Chinese financial power. Notably, the King had to back off the outlawing of Bangkok Muay Thai gambling, as the sport's popularity took a nosedive. It was fundamentally a gambling sport. This exception of Bangkok Muay Thai legal gambling goes back over 100 years to this time. The influence was not of Chinese fighting arts, as far as we can tell, though there were some Muay Boran vs Kung Fu fights back then (1921, below for instance), it was likely the consumate wholeness with the Chinese syndicates controlled parts of Bangkok economic culture. Even in today's Muay Thai almost all the large Bangkok promoters are Sino-Thai, and no doubt much of the "gangster" aura around Bangkok Muay Thai through the decades may have been due to this Sino-Thai lineage, tracing back well before 1900. Between these eras the Chinese population of Siam also underwent great discrimination, and there were immigration waves from China following the Japanese wars on China and China' own civil wars. I do not know enough of Siam-Thai history to follow the politics of the Chinese in Siam, but it would be worthwhile to trace this, from turn of the century secret societies and tax farms, to the Sino-Thai predominance in contemporary Bangkok Muay Thai. Was this development continuous, or did it suffer breaks in position and power within the culture? Most of the Western conception of Thailand's Muay Thai comes from the Bangkok Stadia, promotional scene, but almost none of this is understood through Thailand's Sino-Thai history. Military & Police Muay Thai and Boxing When King Vajiravudh, as prince, returned from his young-adulthood education in England at military college and other institutions, he was not alone in this trend of Siamese royalty and elites being educated in England in their youth, especially with a view towards military practice. King Vajiravudh's experience of British Boxing helped inspire him to reform Siam's Muay Boran upon the more "civilizing" practice of Boxing. This is to say, as part of a military education among the elite came the influence of Boxing. The organization of a National Police force brought with it a curriculum that included not only Muay Thai, but also Boxing and Judo. By the time Police run Rajadamnern Stadium opened Muay Thai had been reorganized to resemble Western Boxing in the Capital. Here, I'm not so much interested in detecting a direct influence of British Boxing on Thailand's Muay Thai, as to scope out a general sphere of influence that comes from military instruction (from foreign countries) and a certain relationship to Boxing. Boxing was taught in the academies, and prominent boxing leagues existed throughout the century, first probably on the British model, but then in the 1950s, under the influence of the US military which was taking an increased role in Thailand's military, aligning it within their own anti-Communism interests. In the 1950s the Siam Police force became incredibly well armed and trained by the US, and I believe by the 1960s Army and Police trained boxers filled out amateur and pro ranks in the region (Pone Kingpetch winning the first World Boxing title in the early 1960s). The Thai army ran Lumpinee and the Thai Police ran Rajadamnern, and by the late 1960s there were pro boxing fights on every card, something that continued until until sometime in the 2000s. This is only to say that there is a rather large, and also Boxing-infused, Military and Police Force sphere of Muay Thai influence which very few Westerners think about, or even have knowledge of. It's very hard to quantify or even imagine just how thoroughly this influence pervaded, as both the Army and Police are extremely esteemed, run the two National Stadia, and set a standard of excellence throughout the country. Even such things as very long running regimes for Muay Thai, one could speculate, likely came out of military training, on both the British and then American examples. (In fact it seems probable that in the American tradition of Boxing, long runs may have come out of US military practice.) Many of the biggest Bangkok kaimuay camps were headed by Police officers. The Police in Thailand for some time developed into its own border-policing paramilitary group, it is not quite how the civic Police may be in your own country. At times it has been like a branch of the Thai military. Royal Muay Thai This is not an insignificant sphere, though I won't sketch out much of it here - academic Peter Vail does a good job of outlining the discussion. Muay Thai holds a very prominent role in its political ideology, from its characterization as the force of the people that prevented colonization (unlike neighboring countries), to foundational stories of Royal martial prowess. Muay Thai has a very strong Royal history, and during the very long reign of King Rama IX his patronage of the sport helped lift it symbolically in terms of social esteem. This stands apart from, though no doubt also is braided with Military and Police patronage and development, in that this helps compose its signification in the culture, and grants to Muay Thai in the Capital a level of social importance that rises above the gambling stadia dynamics. The Capital of Thailand (and Siam) is a North Star of value, and Muay Thai has been embraced ideologically, likely for centuries. Provincial Muay Thai This is a Muay Thai that, in part, develops a far from the Royal, Military & Police and Sino-Thai Gambling cultures, in festival fights, themselves organized through gambling. Provincial fighting also culminated in indepdent major city fighting scenes, especially around the Golden Age. I write in some detail about the structure of this development, at least from my speculative view: How Thailand's Muay Thai Has Been Collectively Created Through the Wisdom of Local Markets and Gambling. Because provincial fighters fought in the Bangkok scene, and train both as Thai military and police, and even fought in the military boxing leagues, this provincial development did not occur in isolation (though it was likely highly accelerated with the building of railroad lines in the 1905-1930s, for the first time connecting populaces quickly over distance). Over the last century there was a flux of Capital and Military Muay Thai experiences and pedagogies fed back into the provinces as fighters returned to their homes. But, in thinking about the large spheres of influence on Muay Thai's development and practice there can be no doubt that a major one is provincial Muay Thai, not only in terms of Boran styles which may have reflected local, antique knowledges, but also in the very large number of fights, 10,000s that have occurred every year, going back more than 100 years, if not quite a bit much longer, the skill-tested, fitness landscape "laboratory" of its evolution. Included in this provincial history, though this would be its own branch of historical study, one would find the Muay Wat legacy of Muay Thai knowledge, the manor in which fighting techniques were taught in Thai temples, and still to this day are. Historically, there is likely a pre-modern legacy of magical practices and technical fighting practices that were braided together and preserved within the Wat. One could argue that the religious reforms that came with the fashioning of Siam into a modern Nation State, including the transformation of Muay Boran into a Boxing-influenced modernized sport, were in part to secularize the fighting capacities of Siamese subjects, moving away from the political power of regional Wats, and into a Nationalized Police and military force. The Wat connection to contemporary Muay Thai remain strong at the provincial, festival level. I discuss a bit of their relation to Muay Thai in this article: The 3 Circulations of Thailand's Rural Muay Thai - Buddhism, Rice & Masculinity . -
By Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu · Posted
Thai Boxing legend Khaosai Galaxy. Again, so much that gets beneath the surface of one of the greats. -
By Joseph Arthur De Gonzo · Posted
That might be it. If the farang name is Rafael and is from NY that would be him. He does go to Hongthong sometimes and knows the two brothers I was talking about. The other gym I was talking about was Lamnammoon Muay Thai, but it was not him who was there, though he did come once and elbows me in the face while holding pads (I mean by that just slightly touched to make me realize my guard was down, fucking scary but effective). I actually had the privilege to be elbowed by both him and Yodkhunpon 🙂 which I am kind of happy about ahahah. The trainer taking care of the gym was Nuengtrakan Por Muangubon cause Lamnammoon was mostly in Singapour I think. Anyways, Joe from Hongthong had arranged for me to train there, he told me a bit about growing there and stuff. I think Hongthong is like a neighborhood in Ubon or something like this. I've been wanting to write a review of all the gyms I've trained at in my trips, but I have not yet. Keep doing your great work Kevin. You and Sylvie have had such an impact. I hope one day soon, Thailand offers you honorary citizenship. You guys deserve this.
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The Latest From Open Topics Forum
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In my experience, 1 pair of gloves is fine (14oz in my case, so I can spar safely), just air them out between training (bag gloves definitely not necessary). Shinguards are a good idea, though gyms will always have them and lend them out- just more hygienic to have your own. 2 pairs of wraps, 2 shorts (I like the lightweight Raja ones for the heat), 1 pair of good road running trainers. Good gumshield and groin-protector, naturally. Every time I finish training, I bring everything into the shower (not gloves or shinnies, obviously) with me to clean off the (bucketsfull in my case) of sweat, but things dry off quickly here outside of the monsoon season. One thing I have found I like is smallish, cotton briefs for training (less cloth, therefore sweaty wetness than boxers, etc.- bring underwear from home- decent, cotton stuff is strangely expensive here). Don't weigh yourself down too much. You might want to buy shorts or vests from the gym(s) as (useful) souvenirs. I recommend Action Zone and Keelapan, next door, in Bangkok (good selection and prices): https://www.google.com/maps/place/Action+Zone/@13.7474264,100.5206774,17z/data=!4m14!1m7!3m6!1s0x30e29931ee397e41:0x4c8f06926c37408b!2sAction+Zone!8m2!3d13.7474212!4d100.5232523!16s%2Fg%2F1hm3_f5d2!3m5!1s0x30e29931ee397e41:0x4c8f06926c37408b!8m2!3d13.7474212!4d100.5232523!16s%2Fg%2F1hm3_f5d2?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D -
Hey! I totally get what you mean about pushing through—it can sometimes backfire, especially with mood swings and fatigue. Regarding repeated head blows and depression, there’s research showing a link, especially with conditions like CTE (Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy). More athletes are recognizing the importance of mental health alongside training. -
If you need a chill video editing app for Windows, check out Movavi Video Editor. It's super easy to use, perfect for beginners. You can cut, merge, and add effects without feeling lost. They’ve got loads of tutorials to help you out! I found some dope tips on clipping videos with Movavi. It lets you quickly cut parts of your video, so you can make your edits just how you want. Hit up their site to learn more about how to clip your screen on Windows and see how it all works. -
Hi all, I am fortunate enough to have the opportunity to be traveling to Thailand soon for just over a month of traveling and training. I am a complete beginner and do not own any training gear. One of the first stops on my trip will be to explore Bangkok and purchase equipment. What should be on my list? Clearly, gloves, wraps, shorts and mouthguard are required. I would be grateful for some more insight e.g. should I buy bag gloves and sparring gloves, whether shin pads are worthwhile for a beginner, etc. I'm partiularly conscious of the heat and humidity, it would make sense to pack two pairs of running shoes, two sets of gloves, several handwraps and lots of shorts. Any nuggets of wisdom are most welcome. Thanks in advance for your contributions! -
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