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A Discussion of Overtraining - What's Your Experience?


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This article talks about using "autoregulation" to adjust your daily training.

Autoregulation is nice fancy term for changing how you approach and work in a training session based on how you are performing now, relative to your previous sessions. You change your intensity and volume of today’s training based on how difficult it is compared to what you’ve done before.
 
  • Don’t judge how a session is going to go based on how you feel before you start training, see how well you do as you begin the exercises.
  • Know what your minimum levels of performance should be based on how you were doing previously. This is the best way to use autoregulatory principles.
  • Take advantage of the great days and go ahead and push harder and work a bit more. On those blah days, do the minimum, don’t force it and get the hell out.
 

 

 

 

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I agree that the term and "catch all" of Overtraining is part of the problem, especially in the highly-emotional discussion of it. Science isn't so emotional, usually.

This article was posted by a fighter friend in Florida and is exactly what I'm trying to get at in my "Myth of Overtraining" blog posts. Basically, the symptoms do exist; the experience exists, but it's not caused by "overtraining." It's a mental interpretation:

"The selective amnesia associated with marathon running could have an evolutionary basis, he added, since early humans typically ran to survive and may have needed to disregard some of the associated discomforts.

The study also suggests, though, that not having fun may sharpen your recall of pain, which is unlikely to be motivating. So if you wish to maintain a strenuous workout or competitive program and also blunt the edges of your memories of any resulting pain, find an activity that you enjoy."

You can read the full Times article here: "Forgetting the Pain of Exercise" by Gretchen Reynolds.

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  • 1 month later...

Really good article again Sylvie. My personal experience is training at my old gym in Bournemouth. Before I started fighting I used to train with the fighters at my old gym all the time. As soon as I said would like to fight they said come and train with us, so your ready when you get a chance. I used to do 5 sessions in the week. In the UK most gyms are open just in the evening,  (although my old one now is open all day ) and on a Sunday I used to get a call off one of the fighters and we would go running and go to the gym and I would train with the fighters who wanted to put in that extra bit of work. 

Well I trained 6 days a week and really pushed myself and then sadly one afternoon I was sparring with my mate and I threw a punch at him and felt something in my shoulder go click! and then my arm started aching and I had to stop. I tried to do some press ups after we had finished training and my arm just gave way!  Next day I woke up and could hardly move my arm at all and was in loads of pain and saw a doctor. I could only open my hand really slowly and it turned out I had torn a ligament in my shoulder. :(  A couple of the more experienced lads said that I had burnt myself out. I guess you could call that over training? these days I believe in pushing myself to be at my best and I am used to training hard. I can usually work around an injury too. :) 

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John sounds like an acute injury, not a chronic case of over training.

I am slowly titrating up my training load. I think this is important, because you can't just walk off the street and expect to be putting in 10,15,20 hours of training in, otherwise you'll have an injury, like John.

It's been a lot slower than what I hoped and at times I've taken days off when in theory I would have rather trained. In retrospect I feel like my body was autoregulating me. Could be nonsense? But I feel like I am slowly adapting to more and more work now, and in a way that has worked much better than what I had even planned.

This is really fascinating to me. I just keep trying to turn up as much as I can, and while I often disappoint myself, I just get back in and slowly my threshold is rising, like my body is making slight but regular adjustments sub-autonomously (this isn't really a word haha).

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    • Translation:  (Continued from the previous edition (page?) … However, before being matched against Phadejsuk in the Royal Boxing program for His Majesty [Rama IX], The two had faced each other once before [in 1979]. At that time, a foreign boxer had already been booked to face Narongnoi, and the fight would happen regardless of who wins the fight between Narongnoi and Phadejsuk. … That foreign boxer was Toshio Fujiwara, a Japanese boxer who became a Muay Thai champion, the first foreign champion. He took the title from Monsawan Lukchiangmai in Tokyo, then he came to Thailand to defend the title against Sripae Kiatsompop and lost in a way that many Thai viewers saw that he shouldn’t have lost(?). Fujiwara therefore tried to prove himself again with any famous Nak Muay available. Mr. Montree Mongkolsawat, a promoter at Rajadamnern Stadium, decided to have Narongnoi Kiatbandit defeat the reckless Fujiwara on February 6, the following month. It was good then that Narongnoi had lost to Phadejsuk as it made him closer in form to the Japanese boxer. If he had beaten Phadejsuk, it would have been a lopsided matchup. The news of the clash between Narongnoi and Toshio Fujiawara, the great Samurai from Japan had been spread heavily through the media without any embellishments. The fight was naturally popular as the hit/punch(?) of that spirited Samurai made the hearts of Thai people itch(?). Is the first foreign Champion as skilled as they say? It was still up to debate as Fujiwara had defeated “The Golden Leg” Pudpadnoi Worawut by points beautifully at Lumpinee Stadium in 1978, and before that, he had already defeated Prayut Sittibunlert and knocked out Sripae Kaitsompop in Japan, so he became a hero that Japanese people admired, receiving compliments from fans one after another(?). Thus the fight became more than just about skills. It was (advertised as?) a battle between nations by the organizing team, consisting of promoter Montree Mongkolsawat, Somchai Sriwattanachai representing the “Daily Times(?),” Mahapet of “Muay Thai” magazine, and Palad of “Boxing” magazine were also present, and they named the show in a very cool(?) way, “The Battle of the Fierce Samurai.” Even “The Smiling Tiger of Ayothaya” Narongnoi who was never afraid or shaken was affected by the advertising, confessing to the media that he felt a little scared, unlike usual when he faced other Thai boxers like himself. “Why are you scared?” “Maybe because the opponent is a foreigner. There’s news that he is very talented.”  “So you’re afraid that if you lose to him in our own home, it will give us a bad name and be very shameful for you.” “Yes! But my heart knows that I can’t lose because I am fighting in my own country. And in any case, he probably won’t/wouldn’t be better than our boxers. “But he has defeated many of our famous boxers such as Pudpadnoi-Prayut-Sripae. To tell the truth, he must be considered a top boxer in our country.” “Yes, I know” Narongnoi admitted, “but Pudpadnoi could not be considered to be in fresh form as he had been declining for many years and could only defeat Wangprai Rotchanasongkram the fight before(?). [Fujiwara] fought Prayut and Sripae in Japan. Once they stepped on stage there, they were already at a huge disadvantage. I trained especially well for this fight, so if I lose to Fujiwara, my name will be gone(?) as well.” “The Battle of the Fierce Samurai” was postponed from February 6 to February 12, but Thai boxing fans were still very excited about this matchup, wanting to see with their own eyes how good the spirited Japanese boxer was, and wanted to see Narongnoi declare the dignity(?) of Thai boxers decisively with a neck kick, or fold the Japanese fighter with a knee. Win in a way that will make Thai people feel satisfied.   [Photo description] Narongnoi Kiatbandit used his strength to attack Fujiwara, a fake Muay Thai fighter until Fujiwara lost on points.   Fujiwara flew to Bangkok 2-3 days before the fight. The organizers of the show had prepared an open workout for him at Rajadamnern Stadium for advertising purposes. Many press reporters and boxing fans crowded together to see Fujiwara. Their annoyance increased as all he did for three rounds was punch the air [shadowboxing], jump rope, and warm up with physical exercises. After finishing the first three rounds, he was asked to put on gloves and do two rounds of sparring with a person who was already dressed and waiting. However, Fujiwara’s doctor told him that it was unnecessary. This time he had come to defeat a Thai boxer, not to perform for the show. Photographers shook their heads and carried their empty cameras back to their printing houses, one after another. In addition to measuring the prestige of the two nations, the fight between Narongnoi and Fujiwara was also wagered on, with a budget of 1 million baht. Narongnoi was at 3-2 in odds, and someone had prepared money to bet on the Japanese underdog, almost a million baht. Only “Hia Lao” Klaew Thanikul, who had just entered the boxing world, would bet 500,000 baht alone, and the Japanese side would only bet a few hundred thousand. The only person who truly bet on Narongnoi’s side was Chu Chiap Te-Chabanjerd or Kwang Joker, the leader of the “Joker” group, supported by Sgt. Chai Phongsupa. The others could not bet because the Japanese side ran out of money to bet on. Narongnoi’s disadvantage would be that it would be the first time that he will fight at 134 lbs. However, he would have youth and strength on his side, as well as having trained Muay Thai in Thailand(?). Narongnoi was only 22 years old, while Fujiwara was already 33. His 33 years did not seem to be a concern in terms of strength as he had trained very well and never knew the word “exhaustion.” Fujiwara had an abundance of endurance, to the extent that the Japanese could trust him completely on this issue. Yes [krap], when the day came, Rajadamnern Stadium was packed with boxing fans of all ages. The entrance fee was set at 100-200 and 400 baht per person, and the total raised was over 900,000 baht, less than ten thousand baht short of reaching the million baht mark. This means that the number of viewers was more than double that of the special events (200-400 baht per person) nowadays. Even though it was more exciting than any other fight in the past, Narongnoi Kiatbandit, the 130 lbs champion, was able to completely extinguish Toshio Fujiwara by throwing his left leg to the ribs every now and then. This made “the Samurai” unable to turn the odds(?) in time because Narongnoi would always stifle him. Fujiwara could only rely on his physical fitness and endurance to stand and receive various strikes until his back and shoulders were red with kick marks. After 5 rounds, he lost by a landslide, with no chance to fight back at all. Most of the audience was pleased, but there were some who complained that Narongnoi should have won by knockout, which was not easy as Fujiwara had already established that he was the best in Tokyo. If it were any other Japanese boxer, it would be certain that he would not have survived. “Am BangOr” wrote in the “Circle of Thoughts" column(?) of the boxing newspaper at that time: “Then the truth came out to show that Toshio Fujiwara was not really that good at Muay Thai. He was beaten by Narongnoi Kiatbandit who only used his left leg. Fujiwara was frozen, bouncing back and forth with the force of his leg, and he lost by a landslide... The only thing worth admiring about this Sun Warrior is his endurance and excellent durability. For someone at the age of 33 like him to be able to stand and take Narongnoi's kicks like that, he must be considered quite strong. Why, then, did other Thai boxers lose to him? Monsawan-Sriprae-Pudpadnoi-Worawut have all helped strengthen this Japanese boxer. The answer is that their readiness was not enough(?). This victory of Narongnoi is considered to be the erasing of the old beliefs that were stuck in the hearts of Thais who were afraid that Japan would become the master of Thai boxing. It will probably be a long time and it will be difficult as long as Thai boxers can maintain our identity. But we cannot be complacent. If we are arrogant and think that the Japanese will not give up, we Thais may be hurt again because they will not give up. If we make a mistake today, he will have to find a way to make up for it tomorrow."
    • Sylvie wrote a really cool article about why sparring escalates, even when people are trying to go light. A gem from 10 years ago. https://8limbsus.com/blog/brain-science-sparring-gets-control-neurology-muay-thai
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