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Learning Muay Thai from a MMA gym


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HI,

I'm in a situation where a gym I was training at has merged with another gym (old time student), this is really disappointing as I think it was probably the best gym in England.  :ohmy:

Anyway, it moved about a 45 minute drive away which is really inconvenient for me as I have no car. My only other options is either get a personal Muay Thai trainer who I know is good and I can learn a lot from, but is expensive and I won't be regularly or go to a local MMA gym which offers Muay Thai.

This is not an MMA gym that has a specialist Muay Thai trainer or anything like that, its just an MMA coach. I can post a video of their gym session they uploaded to Facebook to show the level of training, but I'm unsure whether that's appropriate. :mellow:

I'm planning to go to Thailand in 3-4 months for training. I want to be fit (as possible) before going to get the most out of training there, but of course improving technique is very important and I'm unsure how much I'll be able to improve going to the MMA gym...

:thanks:

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It sounds like either choice will require some level of sacrifice on your part. Either you're trying to make a commute part of your schedule, or you're possibly giving up quality of training. Do they offer a free trial? If so I'd say give it the week/10 days they offer and see how well their training fits your needs. You could get lucky and it might work oht well enough.

 

Also, obligatory American giggle about a 45 minute commute. :P

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It sounds like either choice will require some level of sacrifice on your part. Either you're trying to make a commute part of your schedule, or you're possibly giving up quality of training. Do they offer a free trial? If so I'd say give it the week/10 days they offer and see how well their training fits your needs. You could get lucky and it might work oht well enough.

 

Also, obligatory American giggle about a 45 minute commute. :P

hahaha actually, its kinda my fault, I put 45 minute commute which is relevant to how long it'd take in a car, but as I don't have a car that length is irrelevant. I live in a tiny village and the bus's wouldn't be able to make it to that gyms location, so is kinda not an option... 45 min commute is bearable living in a city, so many options for travel. 

 

My option is to get a personal trainer to my home as often as I can afford, which at the moment would be like two times maximum a month, or go to an MMA gym.

I just don't want it to have a negative impact on my training and pick up things that will hinder my improvement, but at the same time I want to get fit.

I have a trial booked in on Monday with the MMA gym, so hopefully it goes well. :pinch:

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I'm impressed that now even tiny villages have MMA gyms! Go to the MMA gym and ask if you can pay a reduced fee to only go to Muay Thai sessions. If so that's what I would choose. The training won't be as good as a pure Muay Thai gym but I don't think it will hinder your progress by any means.

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I'm impressed that now even tiny villages have MMA gyms! Go to the MMA gym and ask if you can pay a reduced fee to only go to Muay Thai sessions. If so that's what I would choose. The training won't be as good as a pure Muay Thai gym but I don't think it will hinder your progress by any means.

Its actually in a nearby town, easily accessible via bus. We have many gyms around here boxing/kickboxing/karate/tkd/judo just not Muay Thai anymore.

I mean the training is of course going to be worse, I hate the idea of MMA gyms teaching Muay Thai though I don't have many options.  :sad:

Regarding the price, I think they have different memberships depending on which classes or how many times a week you want to go. Not sure, will be pretty cheap though. 

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bakpao, I feel you're not too happy about choosing the MMA option, but it's still a place where you will get some exercise, so it will keep you in shape.

And who knows, maybe you'll catch the MMA bug? :D

I can relate to your situation, as I will have to let go of my really great MT trainer in just a month, coz he's going abroad for half a year. So my option is to go back to a trainer I previously trained with, who is really into teaching MMA-style Muay Thai. There are differences in style. He corrects my cool low kick or totally effective leg block. Because it's not effective in MMA. So it's a difficult situation for me AND the trainer, coz I'm there only for Muay Thai and he's aware of it and partly okay with it, but he's so fascinated with MMA, that at the same time he seems a bit pissed off at me doing it the "traditional" way and tends to neglect me in training. Oh and he doesn't like my super great trainer that I love for his Muay Thai! XD I don't know if this works out in the long run, but I have to give it a try. Which I would advise you to do, too.

So, all in all. Depending how the trainer at your new place will put emphasis on the "usefulness" of Muay Thai in MMA, you'll either learn Muay Thai or MMA-style stand-up ;) But in the end, you still learn combinations and work out. So it's better than doing nothing. 

And in Thailand they will change your technique anyway, regardless of what you've trained back home ;) ;) XD

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I would be interested to know what gym it is that has moved.

I always think its hard moving gyms when you don't want to, I am going through this same thing for other reasons right now and I have to be quite positive at the new gym and try not to compare.  I did a lot of research and in factr a top Thai coach is teaching in an mma gym in london so this is my back up option.  I think trying it out would be a good idea, see what the people are like when you do a group class, see what a private is like. 

 

A friend sent me a link to a gym that is closer than the one I am travelling to and I was put off by the videos so I know how that feels.  I think there is a difference between putting up relatively inexperienced people doing their best in class compared to videos of the head instructor doing the weirdest pads I have ever seen or letting someone doing a private and not correcting their technique at all. 

 

Are you in an area where there are a lot of choices of gyms or is this MMA one your only option?

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I would be interested to know what gym it is that has moved.

I always think its hard moving gyms when you don't want to, I am going through this same thing for other reasons right now and I have to be quite positive at the new gym and try not to compare.  I did a lot of research and in factr a top Thai coach is teaching in an mma gym in london so this is my back up option.  I think trying it out would be a good idea, see what the people are like when you do a group class, see what a private is like. 

 

A friend sent me a link to a gym that is closer than the one I am travelling to and I was put off by the videos so I know how that feels.  I think there is a difference between putting up relatively inexperienced people doing their best in class compared to videos of the head instructor doing the weirdest pads I have ever seen or letting someone doing a private and not correcting their technique at all. 

 

Are you in an area where there are a lot of choices of gyms or is this MMA one your only option?

I'll send the gyms name in a pm.

I know that any gym I go to wont have the same quality as the gym before as they tried to replicate Thai style as much as possible 1 on 1 padwork with trainer, sparring, clinching for long time, etc etc. So I know I'm going to lose quality when changing to another gym, its like you said, when I saw videos of the class it was really low level... 

I'm in an area with a decent amount of gyms within a 1 hour drive, the problem is that most of them are on industrial parks or something similar, so they're inaccessible via bus - and I don't have a car. Whereas the MMA gym is accessible by bus.

The problem isn't that its an MMA gym its that, an MMA coach is teaching Muay Thai.  :ohmy:

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bakpao, I feel you're not too happy about choosing the MMA option, but it's still a place where you will get some exercise, so it will keep you in shape.

And who knows, maybe you'll catch the MMA bug? :D

I can relate to your situation, as I will have to let go of my really great MT trainer in just a month, coz he's going abroad for half a year. So my option is to go back to a trainer I previously trained with, who is really into teaching MMA-style Muay Thai. There are differences in style. He corrects my cool low kick or totally effective leg block. Because it's not effective in MMA. So it's a difficult situation for me AND the trainer, coz I'm there only for Muay Thai and he's aware of it and partly okay with it, but he's so fascinated with MMA, that at the same time he seems a bit pissed off at me doing it the "traditional" way and tends to neglect me in training. Oh and he doesn't like my super great trainer that I love for his Muay Thai! XD I don't know if this works out in the long run, but I have to give it a try. Which I would advise you to do, too.

So, all in all. Depending how the trainer at your new place will put emphasis on the "usefulness" of Muay Thai in MMA, you'll either learn Muay Thai or MMA-style stand-up ;) But in the end, you still learn combinations and work out. So it's better than doing nothing. 

And in Thailand they will change your technique anyway, regardless of what you've trained back home ;) ;) XD

I actually like MMA, but I don't like the trash talk and the lack of history behind it. I used to do kickboxing a while ago, that got boring too because there's nothing behind it, its just boxing mixed with karate... you know what I mean? No substance, if that's the right thing to say.

 

Yeah that's the issue, because he's so used to thinking of training for MMA, even if he is teaching Muay Thai he's still fitting into scenarios for MMA in his head. So its like, he's teaching Muay Thai but his agenda is for it to suit MMA, lol I don't know how to explain. It's like if you ask a Thai to teach you boxing, it will be suited to their Muay Thai mindset.

So there's the problem of him teaching me MMA style Muay Thai, which isn't too much of a problem I guess cause its only for a few months, I just hope he doesn't try to completely change my style to what he wants, or else that would be a problem. If its just minor things that I can easily solve then I can put up with it.  :sleep:

 

Yeah, that's all I think is, its better than nothing. Just to get fit rather than learn. :ohmy:

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Ah that puts a different slant on it.  I know I feel nothing will better my last gym but at least I have someone that fought internationally in Thai as a coach and they are making huge efforts to really improve the feel and classes.

I don't know the reason you don't drive and you don't have to say but is this or a bike licence something you could consider?  Could you get a fold up bike and catch the bus most of the way and cycle the rest.?

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HI,

I'm in a situation where a gym I was training at has merged with another gym (old time student), this is really disappointing as I think it was probably the best gym in England.  :ohmy:

Anyway, it moved about a 45 minute drive away which is really inconvenient for me as I have no car. My only other options is either get a personal Muay Thai trainer who I know is good and I can learn a lot from, but is expensive and I won't be regularly or go to a local MMA gym which offers Muay Thai.

This is not an MMA gym that has a specialist Muay Thai trainer or anything like that, its just an MMA coach. I can post a video of their gym session they uploaded to Facebook to show the level of training, but I'm unsure whether that's appropriate. :mellow:

I'm planning to go to Thailand in 3-4 months for training. I want to be fit (as possible) before going to get the most out of training there, but of course improving technique is very important and I'm unsure how much I'll be able to improve going to the MMA gym...

:thanks:

Is it feasible to do both? If you could get just a handful of 1-1 sessions to learn technique and then practice those techniques on your own at any kind of facility that could accommodate you, then go to the far-away gym for some sparring or occasional padwork as a workout... is that just way too complicated?

I don't think that what you would be doing at an MMA gym is worthless, even if the level is pretty basic. If you can get repetition in on the things you know to be correct form and practical technique, then it's a reasonable option. Coming to Thailand with a great wealth of technical knowledge isn't, in my mind, as important as coming with a baseline of fitness that allows you to train hard while you're here and pick up as much to bring home with you as possible.

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I have had a similar problem- I recently moved cities and have had to move from a gym I really love to one which is predominantly an MMA gym (I'm not really a fan of MMA at all). I was worried at first but although it's a very different session now, I still really enjoy it and feel I'm learning a lot. There are aspects of my technique which I feel aren't criticised as much now, so I supplement my training by having a couple of private sessions a month with my old coach, even though it's a four hour round trip for me. If you can afford to have a couple of privates a month I'd recommend it. I know it's kind of frowned upon sometimes to skip between gyms like this, but I've been honest with both my trainers about my reasons so they are all cool with it. It's not me saying their training isn't good enough, it's just a way of getting a different type of training and also touching base with a gym I still feel pretty loyal to and owe a lot to. 

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Deleuze & Guattari, "1227: TREATISE ON NOMADOLOGY—THE WAR MACHINE", A Thousand Plateaus: Capitalism & Schizophrenia   Becoming and A Warfare of Capture What Deleuze and Guattari are invoking is a conception of warfare which is much more fully potentiated. Not locked into rigid hierarchies and roles of figures of power, it is a much more metaphysical battle that reflects aspects of what I have argued is the spiritual foundation of Thailand's Muay Thai, an animism of powers within the history of the culture that predates the arrival of Buddhism (Toward a Theory of the Spirituality of Thailand's Muay Thai). This logic of an animism of powers contains an essential aspect of captured power, the incorporated power of a captured enemy, founded on what historians of Southeast Asia have called "Soul Stuff", roughly equivalent of Hindu shakti (strength). This can be manifested in captured slave labor, or perhaps even in the prehistoric rites of cannibalism through which one consumed the soul stuff of an enemy. You can find a logic of Soul Stuff here, this graphic below helps represent the animism of contest. A primary source on soul stuff and a fusion of military and spiritual prowess can be found with historian O.W. Walters here. Thus, within the cultural origins of Siamese culture, even that which pre-dates the Indianization of the region, we have essential aspects of a smooth, tactical space in a Deleuze & Guattari sense, which potentially maps quite well into the game of Go, especially as it is contrasted to Chess.   Further in concordance with Deleuze & Guattari's philosophical concept of liberty is the way in which Thailand's Muay Thai can be understood as revolutionary in their terms. Deleuze & Guattari write of becoming-animal, becoming-child, becoming-woman, deterritorializing flights inimitable to human freedom. Thailand's Muay Thai (& broader Thai agonism) de-privileges these categories, along a continuous spectrum of thymotic struggle, which runs thru the social hierarchies of low to high, sewing them together. One could say a smooth thymotic space of trajectories. Thailand known for its (ethically criticized) child fighting, women have fought for 100+ yrs, and beetle fighting embodies much of the Muay Thai gambled form. In many important ways Thailand's Muay Thai avoids the stacked arboreal structure of Western Man (& its contrastive Others), favoring a continuity agonistic spectrum within its (Indianized) hierarchies. It has strongly weighted traditional hierarchies, but within this a thymotic line-of-becoming that runs between divinity and animality. see Beetle Fighting, Muay Thai and the Health of the Culture of Thailand - The Ecology of Fighting more on the division of divinity and animality by wicha here: Muay Thai Seen as a Rite: Sacrifice, Combat Sports, Loser as Sacred Victim Knowing-as-doing, the wicha of technical knowledge of how to do, runs between the axes of divinity and animality in a way that supports a mutuality of any figure's becoming, from the insect up to the heightened champion fighter, in a line of flight shared by others. Most Deleuzian becoming-animal, -child, -woman examples come from the arts (sometimes the bedroom), but instead in Thai, gambled agonism we have the becoming of actual animals, children, women & the projective affects of an equally agonistic audience undergoing its own becoming-as. When I say revolutionary, I say "Thailand's Muay Thai has something to teach the world about the nature of violence and its meaning." Learning From Chess in How to See Thailand's Muay Thai Keep in mind, this isn't an direct one-for-one comparison of the contemporary game of Chess (and Chess Theory) and the ring sport of Muay Thai. It compares the dominant image of thought in the conceptual trend. Some have pointed out that my gross picture of Chess leaves out its post-1920s modern Chess Theory development, which often eschews central forward advancement. What is important in the Chess example isn't how Chess was played in 1960s, say, but rather that Chess over the sweep of its history allows us to see how it expressed the martial logic from which it came, ie, how some battles were fought in the field, with advancing lines, and a central capture of territory focus. Chess I would argue contains a martial logic fingerprint in its organizational structure, just as the real life political powers of Kings, Queens, knights and bishops made their impact on its rules & formation, the increased power of the Queen on the board said to be a fine example of this (see: A Queen in Any Other Language). Even in the Hypermodernism of Chess one might say that the center still holds importance, as there are just other ways of controlling or managing it.  Hypermodernism for instance may have reflected the increased use of cannon & then WW1 artillery. Between the two games of Chess and Go are differing Martial Logics. It doesn't mean that there is zero fighting for the center in Muay Thai (or in Southeast Asian warfare...siege warfare is prominent in Ayutthaya history for instance, though with influence from the Portuguese, etc), or that there is zero edge or flank control in Western European warfare or Chess (flank maneuvers are numerous in European warfare). The contrast is really meant to exposed how we perceive conflict spatially, and that these are things we've culturally inherited. You see these inherited concepts, for instance the centrality of territory capture in common Western scoring criteria like "ring control". Centralized conflict is part of our past and informs how we judge fighting styles, just as edge conflict is part of Southeast Asia's past. And importantly this also informs our ideas of violence, with a European tendency toward "kill" (to control land, ie the center) and a SEA tendency toward "capture"(to control labor, ie the edge).  
    • Hey so im an ammateur fighting in europe mostly at DIY events. The thing is even though every fight I improve I am never able to win and its starting to get to me.  I have 5 fights in total 2 k1 and 3 muay thai and iv never won a muay thai, won 1 k1 cos my cardio was better than the other girl and I just out brawld her.  People say wow your technique is so much better than the fight I saw you in last year etc but it still feels bitter to constantly lose. I know i am improving but feel that I always just get tougher and tougher matches, the last 3 fights I lost have all been very close fights. One I lost cos my opponent got injured and broke her ankle when I bloked with a knee but she was able to hide it, another one I lost cos she was using more clean techniques and I was brawling (this one I agree with 100% cos I was landing but it was sloppy.)  The last one I lost cos my cardio was bad which is also fine. I am fine with losing, its just starting to get to me that I never win. It also kinda annoys me that the only fight I ever won was one that I just outbrawled the other girl. Feels like my improvements havnt really helped me cos I just get matched with tougher and tougher opponents each time.  Im wondering if I should give up on decision fights for a while and just do non decisions to get my condifence back up or whether I will eventually break through and be able to win. I am also kinda old at 32 so even though my technique is improving my strength, reflexes and reactions will begin to fade soon. 
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