Jump to content

Muay Thai tattoos that aren’t Sak Yant?


Recommended Posts

I want to get a Muay Thai tattoo because it changed who I am as a person, my world perspective, yadda, yadda. The thing is, I’m not “legit” enough for a Sak Yant. I haven’t trained in Thailand, am not closely tied to Thai culture outside of Muay Thai, don’t consider myself a Buddhist, and would definitely feel like a bit of a fraud getting one. I *do not* look at other people in a similar position the same way so this isn’t a criticism of anyone in a similar situation who has gotten one.

The question is, are there any Muay Thai tattoos that aren’t Sak Yant that are not completely hokey or ridiculous? Or is this just best left alone and the idea scrapped entirely? Is it disrespectful to the tradition of the sport and would only serve to Westernize something not really meant for westerners outside of training?

I’m not looking for an answer I want to hear on some of the cultural questions. Seriously seeking some thoughtful considerations. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi 🙂 

SakYants Aren’t just for Muay Thai fighters, lots of people who aren’t fighters have Sak yants.

It’s a tradition too that is based on animalism and Magic so it not just Buddhism:) 
 

But if Sak Yants don’t resonate how about  finding a symbol that represents what Muay Thai means.... 

Like does training MT bring freedom? Maybe freedom written in Thai? Or something like that. 

I hope I’ve helped lol 

 

  • Like 2
  • Nak Muay 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/22/2020 at 1:04 AM, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Tattoos are quite personal, so whatever brings you association to your experiences with Muay Thai is appropriate. You could chose a word written in Thai, or an image (the things to consider here are if you get a mongkol, for example, placement has to be high on your body).

Thank you! That is good starting point for picking a design. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/16/2020 at 2:06 AM, SHELL28 said:

Hi 🙂 

SakYants Aren’t just for Muay Thai fighters, lots of people who aren’t fighters have Sak yants.

It’s a tradition too that is based on animalism and Magic so it not just Buddhism:) 
 

But if Sak Yants don’t resonate how about  finding a symbol that represents what Muay Thai means.... 

Like does training MT bring freedom? Maybe freedom written in Thai? Or something like that. 

I hope I’ve helped lol 

 

Thank you! More good info. I thought about the word in Thai thing but soooo much could go wrong there. Kinda like the Chinese symbols that people got in the 90s and 2000s that are supposed to say freedom but actually translate to chicken diarrhea or some such ridiculousness. I sure don’t want to be that asshole. 🤣

  • hahaha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/15/2020 at 11:21 PM, CatherineS said:

Seriously seeking some thoughtful considerations. 

As others have mentioned, sak yant aren't really "for" Muay Thai. In fact they are seldom prominent in most prominent Thai Muay Thai fighters. They are kind of from the under-class of Thailand, much as perhaps tattoos in general were in western countries for a very long time. And, some of that under class become fighters. But...mostly they are just symbolic representations of protection, or power, believed in an an animistic level. A sak yant of a tiger may just be summoning up "tiger energy", the ability to command, stalking forcefulness, etc. It could apply to anything in life.

So...sak yant could just tap into or express the underfeelings of what Muay Thai has brought to you, without being some sort of "bro" appropriation. Your own attempt to get in touch with that thing, that meaningfulness. Or, maybe not.

In either case, I would say to just get in touch with that thing that Muay Thai has done for you, brought to you, and then find some representation that speaks to that for you. Maybe its nothing that looks like its related to Muay Thai at all...but YOU know it's about Muay Thai. Or, perhaps, if there is a particular heroic fighter who inspires you, then perhaps something related to their image.

As for words, Sylvie's discussed a series of Thai words that embody the spirit of Muay Thai, I'm sure she would double check the graphic for you before you got it tattoo'd. This was one: Ning:

1115080572_NingMuayThai.jpg.23667ef72aea964685b08d1af42d5eac.jpg

 

https://web.facebook.com/sylviemuaythai/photos/a.134623809905091/2636651226368991

  • Like 3
  • Super Slick 1
  • Respect 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/25/2020 at 11:34 PM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

As others have mentioned, sak yant aren't really "for" Muay Thai. In fact they are seldom prominent in most prominent Thai Muay Thai fighters. They are kind of from the under-class of Thailand, much as perhaps tattoos in general were in western countries for a very long time. And, some of that under class become fighters. But...mostly they are just symbolic representations of protection, or power, believed in an an animistic level. A sak yant of a tiger may just be summoning up "tiger energy", the ability to command, stalking forcefulness, etc. It could apply to anything in life.

So...sak yant could just tap into or express the underfeelings of what Muay Thai has brought to you, without being some sort of "bro" appropriation. Your own attempt to get in touch with that thing, that meaningfulness. Or, maybe not.

In either case, I would say to just get in touch with that thing that Muay Thai has done for you, brought to you, and then find some representation that speaks to that for you. Maybe its nothing that looks like its related to Muay Thai at all...but YOU know it's about Muay Thai. Or, perhaps, if there is a particular heroic fighter who inspires you, then perhaps something related to their image.

As for words, Sylvie's discussed a series of Thai words that embody the spirit of Muay Thai, I'm sure she would double check the graphic for you before you got it tattoo'd. This was one: Ning:

1115080572_NingMuayThai.jpg.23667ef72aea964685b08d1af42d5eac.jpg

 

https://web.facebook.com/sylviemuaythai/photos/a.134623809905091/2636651226368991

Thank you! This is quite helpful for finding a place to start. Tattoos are permanent and I’m old enough to know that you do NOT want something permanently on your body if you aren’t 100% sure about it and of course I don’t want to be a disrespectful appropriating asshole. 
 

I appreciate you spending the time to clarify these things and providing some great insight. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • 5 weeks later...
  • 8 months later...

Recently, Sak Yant has been referred to as “Muay Thai Tattoo.”  Actually, because of its protective and blessed meanings, it was often associated with warriors, combatants, and anyone looking for its protective powers.   But why are so few Thai fighters getting Sak Yant in comparison to their Western Nak Muay counterparts?  Is it not derived from the ancient practice as depicted in movies involving ancient Thai warriors?  In order to understand this in the context of modern Thai culture, you have to separate the “Sak" from the “Yant."  Sak means tattoo.  Yant is the actual blessed protective scripture.  Yant could actually be inscribed on surfaces other than skin.  In Theravada Buddhism, which in Thai culture is actually mixed with older indigenous beliefs, the Yant is often placed on amulets and cloth.  It has always been in existence, and Thai fighters are often wearing amulets with Yant inscribed somewhere on them.  Its connection with the ancient warriors was transferred from skin to another media, not abandoned. Yant can even be on Buddha amulets.  In contrast, Sak is very intertwined with societal norms and to a large extent fashion.  In the modern era, Sak or tattoo only became mainstream recently.  Prior to this it was associated with gangsters and the less desirable elements of society.  Even in the United States, establishments like West Point only recently allowed its cadets to have tattoos because military officers could not have tattoos while lower-ranked enlisted soldiers were allowed to.  I myself have a lot of tattoos (including Sak Yant) and my Thai mom, when she was alive, never did like them.  She often told me that since I have an advanced degree, I should not get tattoos.  This was the society that she grew up in.   So it’s easy to understand why even when Golden Era fighters got Sak Yant on rare occasions, it was minimal in contrast to the full upper torso.  Many Muay Thai boxers like others in society did not promote deviation from social norms.  Fast forward to now, and tattoos are ubiquitous and no longer tantamount to stigma. Yet, the other variable influencing choice of Sak is fashion.  Unless you’re a complete follower of the practice as can be observed at the annual Sak Yant Tattoo Festival, many Thais (fighters or not) are often influenced by foreign fashion.  So once tattoos were more accepted, the choice was still primarily other foreign styles as opposed to traditional Thai.  Then a global Western star, Angelina Jolie, made huge headlines with her Sak Yant in Thailand.  Suddenly Thai celebrities were in line getting the Thai traditional tattoo in the same “Ha-Taew” fashion as the Western star.  Ajarn Noo Kanpai who tattooed Angelina became highly sought "overnight."  In contrast, it was increasingly more fashionable, exotic and/or a spiritual connection for foreign Nak Muays to adopt the traditional protective tattoos likes the ancient Thai warriors.  Many have said it gave them more connection to Muay Thai.  As it becomes more and more common among Western Nak Muays, perhaps the Thai fighters will come back around and have the Yant back on their skin, as can be seen on Sudsakorn and Saiyok.  In short, the Yant never left the lineage (being on cloth, amulet, etc.), but the Sak did… until maybe now.  If you're not interested in the Yant portion of it, just get a Sak of something meaningful to you.

  • Respect 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 8 months later...
21 hours ago, Matty said:

@Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu can you please type out Ning in Thai? I'm considering a tattoo, but would like to play around with different fonts. Thanks!

นิ่ง

If you were to use it the way one would say it in Thai, you'd repeat it. The symbol at the end of the following version is the "repeat 1x" symbol. So it's "ning ning". It's not a necessary component at all, it just makes it more colloquial.

นิ่งๆ

  • Heart 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/1/2022 at 9:07 PM, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:

นิ่ง

If you were to use it the way one would say it in Thai, you'd repeat it. The symbol at the end of the following version is the "repeat 1x" symbol. So it's "ning ning". It's not a necessary component at all, it just makes it more colloquial.

นิ่งๆ

Thanks Sylvie 😊

Is "ning ning" used like an adjective?

Is นิ่ง meant to be used in the context of formal writing? In Cantonese, writing and speaking would used different words to refer to the same thing. I am wondering if that's the case for Thai.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Most Recent Topics

  • Latest Comments

    • Translation:  (Continued from the previous edition (page?) … However, before being matched against Phadejsuk in the Royal Boxing program for His Majesty [Rama IX], The two had faced each other once before [in 1979]. At that time, a foreign boxer had already been booked to face Narongnoi, and the fight would happen regardless of who wins the fight between Narongnoi and Phadejsuk. … That foreign boxer was Toshio Fujiwara, a Japanese boxer who became a Muay Thai champion, the first foreign champion. He took the title from Monsawan Lukchiangmai in Tokyo, then he came to Thailand to defend the title against Sripae Kiatsompop and lost in a way that many Thai viewers saw that he shouldn’t have lost(?). Fujiwara therefore tried to prove himself again with any famous Nak Muay available. Mr. Montree Mongkolsawat, a promoter at Rajadamnern Stadium, decided to have Narongnoi Kiatbandit defeat the reckless Fujiwara on February 6, the following month. It was good then that Narongnoi had lost to Phadejsuk as it made him closer in form to the Japanese boxer. If he had beaten Phadejsuk, it would have been a lopsided matchup. The news of the clash between Narongnoi and Toshio Fujiawara, the great Samurai from Japan had been spread heavily through the media without any embellishments. The fight was naturally popular as the hit/punch(?) of that spirited Samurai made the hearts of Thai people itch(?). Is the first foreign Champion as skilled as they say? It was still up to debate as Fujiwara had defeated “The Golden Leg” Pudpadnoi Worawut by points beautifully at Lumpinee Stadium in 1978, and before that, he had already defeated Prayut Sittibunlert and knocked out Sripae Kaitsompop in Japan, so he became a hero that Japanese people admired, receiving compliments from fans one after another(?). Thus the fight became more than just about skills. It was (advertised as?) a battle between nations by the organizing team, consisting of promoter Montree Mongkolsawat, Somchai Sriwattanachai representing the “Daily Times(?),” Mahapet of “Muay Thai” magazine, and Palad of “Boxing” magazine were also present, and they named the show in a very cool(?) way, “The Battle of the Fierce Samurai.” Even “The Smiling Tiger of Ayothaya” Narongnoi who was never afraid or shaken was affected by the advertising, confessing to the media that he felt a little scared, unlike usual when he faced other Thai boxers like himself. “Why are you scared?” “Maybe because the opponent is a foreigner. There’s news that he is very talented.”  “So you’re afraid that if you lose to him in our own home, it will give us a bad name and be very shameful for you.” “Yes! But my heart knows that I can’t lose because I am fighting in my own country. And in any case, he probably won’t/wouldn’t be better than our boxers. “But he has defeated many of our famous boxers such as Pudpadnoi-Prayut-Sripae. To tell the truth, he must be considered a top boxer in our country.” “Yes, I know” Narongnoi admitted, “but Pudpadnoi could not be considered to be in fresh form as he had been declining for many years and could only defeat Wangprai Rotchanasongkram the fight before(?). [Fujiwara] fought Prayut and Sripae in Japan. Once they stepped on stage there, they were already at a huge disadvantage. I trained especially well for this fight, so if I lose to Fujiwara, my name will be gone(?) as well.” “The Battle of the Fierce Samurai” was postponed from February 6 to February 12, but Thai boxing fans were still very excited about this matchup, wanting to see with their own eyes how good the spirited Japanese boxer was, and wanted to see Narongnoi declare the dignity(?) of Thai boxers decisively with a neck kick, or fold the Japanese fighter with a knee. Win in a way that will make Thai people feel satisfied.   [Photo description] Narongnoi Kiatbandit used his strength to attack Fujiwara, a fake Muay Thai fighter until Fujiwara lost on points.   Fujiwara flew to Bangkok 2-3 days before the fight. The organizers of the show had prepared an open workout for him at Rajadamnern Stadium for advertising purposes. Many press reporters and boxing fans crowded together to see Fujiwara. Their annoyance increased as all he did for three rounds was punch the air [shadowboxing], jump rope, and warm up with physical exercises. After finishing the first three rounds, he was asked to put on gloves and do two rounds of sparring with a person who was already dressed and waiting. However, Fujiwara’s doctor told him that it was unnecessary. This time he had come to defeat a Thai boxer, not to perform for the show. Photographers shook their heads and carried their empty cameras back to their printing houses, one after another. In addition to measuring the prestige of the two nations, the fight between Narongnoi and Fujiwara was also wagered on, with a budget of 1 million baht. Narongnoi was at 3-2 in odds, and someone had prepared money to bet on the Japanese underdog, almost a million baht. Only “Hia Lao” Klaew Thanikul, who had just entered the boxing world, would bet 500,000 baht alone, and the Japanese side would only bet a few hundred thousand. The only person who truly bet on Narongnoi’s side was Chu Chiap Te-Chabanjerd or Kwang Joker, the leader of the “Joker” group, supported by Sgt. Chai Phongsupa. The others could not bet because the Japanese side ran out of money to bet on. Narongnoi’s disadvantage would be that it would be the first time that he will fight at 134 lbs. However, he would have youth and strength on his side, as well as having trained Muay Thai in Thailand(?). Narongnoi was only 22 years old, while Fujiwara was already 33. His 33 years did not seem to be a concern in terms of strength as he had trained very well and never knew the word “exhaustion.” Fujiwara had an abundance of endurance, to the extent that the Japanese could trust him completely on this issue. Yes [krap], when the day came, Rajadamnern Stadium was packed with boxing fans of all ages. The entrance fee was set at 100-200 and 400 baht per person, and the total raised was over 900,000 baht, less than ten thousand baht short of reaching the million baht mark. This means that the number of viewers was more than double that of the special events (200-400 baht per person) nowadays. Even though it was more exciting than any other fight in the past, Narongnoi Kiatbandit, the 130 lbs champion, was able to completely extinguish Toshio Fujiwara by throwing his left leg to the ribs every now and then. This made “the Samurai” unable to turn the odds(?) in time because Narongnoi would always stifle him. Fujiwara could only rely on his physical fitness and endurance to stand and receive various strikes until his back and shoulders were red with kick marks. After 5 rounds, he lost by a landslide, with no chance to fight back at all. Most of the audience was pleased, but there were some who complained that Narongnoi should have won by knockout, which was not easy as Fujiwara had already established that he was the best in Tokyo. If it were any other Japanese boxer, it would be certain that he would not have survived. “Am BangOr” wrote in the “Circle of Thoughts" column(?) of the boxing newspaper at that time: “Then the truth came out to show that Toshio Fujiwara was not really that good at Muay Thai. He was beaten by Narongnoi Kiatbandit who only used his left leg. Fujiwara was frozen, bouncing back and forth with the force of his leg, and he lost by a landslide... The only thing worth admiring about this Sun Warrior is his endurance and excellent durability. For someone at the age of 33 like him to be able to stand and take Narongnoi's kicks like that, he must be considered quite strong. Why, then, did other Thai boxers lose to him? Monsawan-Sriprae-Pudpadnoi-Worawut have all helped strengthen this Japanese boxer. The answer is that their readiness was not enough(?). This victory of Narongnoi is considered to be the erasing of the old beliefs that were stuck in the hearts of Thais who were afraid that Japan would become the master of Thai boxing. It will probably be a long time and it will be difficult as long as Thai boxers can maintain our identity. But we cannot be complacent. If we are arrogant and think that the Japanese will not give up, we Thais may be hurt again because they will not give up. If we make a mistake today, he will have to find a way to make up for it tomorrow."
    • Sylvie wrote a really cool article about why sparring escalates, even when people are trying to go light. A gem from 10 years ago. https://8limbsus.com/blog/brain-science-sparring-gets-control-neurology-muay-thai
  • The Latest From Open Topics Forum

    • 3½ years late of a reply haha. I'm in Phuket and have went to quite a few physios. The best so far is Meaw at OptimiseFit at the Blue Tree in north Phuket. She doesn't dry needle me as another Dr. has here but all my muscle tension came back soon so it's a waste of money.
    • Don't know if this brand offers shin guards but might as well check them out. I bought a few pairs of shorts from them a while ago and was genuinely impressed. https://siamkickfight.com/
    • Hi all, I have paid a deposit to a gym in Pai near Chiang Mai to train at in January. I am now concerned about the pollution levels at that time of year because of the burning season. Can you recommend a location that is likely to have safer air quality for training in January? I would like to avoid Bangkok and Phuket, if possible. Thank you!
    • Hi, this might be out of the normal topic, but I thought you all might be interested in a book-- Children of the Neon Bamboo-- that has a really cool Martial Arts instructor character who set up an early Muy Thai gym south of Miami in the 1980s. He's a really cool character who drives the plot, and there historically accurate allusions to 1980s martial arts culture. However, the main thrust is more about nostalgia and friendships.    Can we do links? Childrenoftheneonbamboo.com Children of the Neon Bamboo: B. Glynn Kimmey: 9798988054115: Amazon.com: Movies & TV      
    • Davince Resolve is a great place to start. 
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      1.3k
    • Total Posts
      11k
×
×
  • Create New...