Jump to content
LengLeng

Sparring with trainer that goes hard

Recommended Posts

Earlier this week I was asked if I wanted to spar with a trainer I haven't sparred with before. I haven't really worked with him much but I respect him as a trainer and asks him technique questions when I can. He was also featured in the Lethwei episode of Fight World on Netflix and I sort of respect him as an authority. 

He is around my weight, a bit shorter and now not very fit but clearly has his strength and all his movements intact. 

It is always weird sparring with a teacher, I don't want to go too hard. But I was cheered on and told to go harder and use more combinations. Clearly he was better (obviously) and he let me feel his punches. I kicked him pretty hard and at one point I didn't hold back but attacked with some punches. 

And then he just had a go at me. Let the punches rain on my nose and forehead and my jaw started hurting and I felt overwhelmed. I could feel he got angry and that sort of shocked me. I respect teachers a lot and it's a shitty feeling having a teacher angry at you. And I dropped my guard, I lost my posture and he came at me until I got scared (had a recent head injury and I felt panic and thought that maybe this is really bad for my head I need to stop). It's not like he used 100% power but suddenly it went white, I fell backwards and I started sobbing. He sort of apologized went away. I gathered myself. Went to him apologized and thanked him.

But obviously if felt shitty. The trainer I usually work with took me to another room and practiced my very recently displayed obvious weaknesses with me on the pads while I kept sobbing feeling embarrassed and just tired. 

Since then I've been training. And the trainer has not acknowledged that this was any issue at all. 

And I don't really know what to make of the situation. On the one hand I feel shitty like I was put in my place. And on the other I just feel this is fighting. Some people be like that. Opportunity to learn and mature emotionally.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am in this as I am training to be an official, and not a fighter, but it may be that as you are in BKK, you are receiving what seems to be the Thai approach to training. I watched some months ago the training and the competition for novice farang fighters at Tiger Muay Thai, and many of the khrus were relentless in their beat downs of the competitors seeking a place on the Tiger team.  This approach suggested that the khrus are trying to teach/reveal "heart," and trying to determine who has the heart of a fighter by seeing how they respond to being brutalized or emotionally overwhelmed.  Many of the great Golden khrus have said that it is not enough to have technique or conditioning; one must have the heart of a true nak muay in order to be successful.  So, try to see this khru in that light, and remind yourself that you are on a magnificent path that few will ever realize, and that it is a path that demands heart.  I feel that just by asking the question that you asked in your post, you have the heart of a fighter and just keep this determination in your heart as you train going forward. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, buddhasoup said:

I am in this as I am training to be an official, and not a fighter, but it may be that as you are in BKK, you are receiving what seems to be the Thai approach to training. I watched some months ago the training and the competition for novice farang fighters at Tiger Muay Thai, and many of the khrus were relentless in their beat downs of the competitors seeking a place on the Tiger team.  This approach suggested that the khrus are trying to teach/reveal "heart," and trying to determine who has the heart of a fighter by seeing how they respond to being brutalized or emotionally overwhelmed.  Many of the great Golden khrus have said that it is not enough to have technique or conditioning; one must have the heart of a true nak muay in order to be successful.  So, try to see this khru in that light, and remind yourself that you are on a magnificent path that few will ever realize, and that it is a path that demands heart.  I feel that just by asking the question that you asked in your post, you have the heart of a fighter and just keep this determination in your heart as you train going forward. 

Hi. I'm not in BKK anymore, I'm in Yangon (forgot to update my profile). I know what you are referring to, I've seen it many times, and this was not the case in my situation. It was a dude losing his temper (which is definitely very un-Thai an un-fighting in general). I don't believe we shall exotify everything that happens in foreign gyms, sometimes people are jerks. In this case I'm not gonna do a big deal about it but I'll probably not sparring with this trainer again as he has an ego issue. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, LengLeng said:

I don't believe we shall exotify everything that happens in foreign gyms, sometimes people are jerks.

Yes, this can be true, too, I am sorry you had to go through this, and it sounds like you have a good perspective about what happened. I wish you the best of luck; be well, happy and peaceful in your training and life in Yangon. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Oliver said:

Why did he get angry at you though? Did you find out

I don't know...ego issue because I got a lot of punches in and he wanted to put me in my place or I got it wrong and this is his way of teaching. Another trainer told me to not worry, he angry when he spars with him too but he way better so he uses his anger to trick him to make mistakes. When I train with that trainer and I get heated he interrupts the sparring and tells me to kick bag "because you cannot fight when angry you lose easy". From this experience I realize I really need to work on my mental game and not let my emotions weaken me. I'm usually not this sensitive bit the last months, well I feel it affects me. Which I guess is so great with martial arts, you cannot hide from your inner turmoil. It will show. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you say you saw white and fell backwards, like, your vision got screwed up from a heavy headshot? You see flashes? And this was a knockdown?

Maybe get checked up Leng Leng. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, LengLeng said:

I don't know...ego issue because I got a lot of punches in and he wanted to put me in my place or I got it wrong and this is his way of teaching. Another trainer told me to not worry, he angry when he spars with him too but he way better so he uses his anger to trick him to make mistakes. When I train with that trainer and I get heated he interrupts the sparring and tells me to kick bag "because you cannot fight when angry you lose easy". From this experience I realize I really need to work on my mental game and not let my emotions weaken me. I'm usually not this sensitive bit the last months, well I feel it affects me. Which I guess is so great with martial arts, you cannot hide from your inner turmoil. It will show. 

From what you're describing, you seem to have a hard time controlling how your feelings affect you - losing temper with your trainers to the point that they have to send you to the bag, escalating sparring, sobbing. No shame in crying, but if it's a continuous thing that you cannot control your temper when sparring, this may have been a very stark lesson on exactly that, and it's a fucking important one. If your trainers, who make a living training and sparring you, can't trust that they can do their jobs without you getting angry at them for your own incompetence and taking it out on them, I can see why they would act as he did. This doesn't mean that I condone it, but I think you might want to consider if this is the case and how to proceed from there. 

But if your other trainer has mentioned his anger, maybe he's just a small man who enjoys beating others. Maybe it's a bit of both things. Only you can really be the judge of this.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Oliver said:

When you say you saw white and fell backwards, like, your vision got screwed up from a heavy headshot? You see flashes? And this was a knockdown?

Maybe get checked up Leng Leng. 

I never been KOd but as it has been described to me it's basically "lights out and you wake up on the floor". But white I've seen a couple of times. Never in Thailand where you sometimes get hard sparring and the punches hurt and give you a bit of a shock wave. 

This white is is more from getting punched directly in your face. It's only for a fraction of a second but it's like looking into a snow blizzard. 

This case I lost my posture dropped my hands while 5-6 punches rained on my face after already having taken some hard blows on my jaw. And when I saw white I just got panicked a bit and disconnected and fell backwards and sparring ended. I don't feel it caused any damage though. It was a bit humiliating but ok.

And thanks yeah, might be good in general to do a check up. As soon as I can get to a country with proper healthcare 😏

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Asger said:

From what you're describing, you seem to have a hard time controlling how your feelings affect you - losing temper with your trainers to the point that they have to send you to the bag, escalating sparring, sobbing. No shame in crying, but if it's a continuous thing that you cannot control your temper when sparring, this may have been a very stark lesson on exactly that, and it's a fucking important one. If your trainers, who make a living training and sparring you, can't trust that they can do their jobs without you getting angry at them for your own incompetence and taking it out on them, I can see why they would act as he did. This doesn't mean that I condone it, but I think you might want to consider if this is the case and how to proceed from there. 

But if your other trainer has mentioned his anger, maybe he's just a small man who enjoys beating others. Maybe it's a bit of both things. Only you can really be the judge of this.

Right. Please feel free to join me for sparring at one of my lethwei gyms in Yangon and we see who gets emotional 😁😘

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, LengLeng said:

Right. Please feel free to join me for sparring at one of my lethwei gyms in Yangon and we see who gets emotional 😁😘

Guess I hit a nerve. Good luck with your journey 💪

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Double vision after a knock down was the weirdest / scariest experience of mine during afternoon sparring. The Ajarn immediately made me sit out for the rest of the rounds. For sure, it's embarrassing and you don't want to look shit in front of everyone. 

Feel better.

  • Like 1
  • Heart 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Oliver said:

Double vision after a knock down was the weirdest / scariest experience of mine during afternoon sparring. The Ajarn immediately made me sit out for the rest of the rounds. For sure, it's embarrassing and you don't want to look shit in front of everyone. 

Feel better.

Thanks man! 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/2/2020 at 11:27 PM, Asger said:

Guess I hit a nerve. Good luck with your journey 💪

No it didn't. But if you read your reply to me again you can see you made a lot of assumptions based on my post - without knowing anything about me - which would put me in a position to have to explain and defend myself. 

I'm a big believer of talking honestly about feelings. I have a blog and Instagram where I write about my vulnerabilities because it helps me grow to face them. And I have many readers thanking me for sharing weaknesses. This is also why I'm such a big fan of Sylvie, she is very very brave in her documentation of her journey. By exposing herself she helped me tremendously. 

Occasionally, there are people using this to  put you down. It's ok, I get it, not everybody understands. But I don't enter into discussions when the intent to help does not appear to be there. 

Emotions are present in any gym. I've seen so many Thai fighters get angry and tired and upset and I see how the Arjans manage it. Sometimes they just let the boys punch it out on each other, other times they mock them. Martial arts is very much an emotional journey. And I have close relationships with many of my former trainers because of allowing an emotional bond.

...and with my current trainer, we're very close and we get angry at each other all the time. Bickering, laughing, mocking each others or shouting at each other. I'm very grateful for this relationship. 

In no way am I ashamed of having one deeply emotional reaction to this particular sparring situation. Of course it feels embarrassing. But I'm interested in exploring my reaction as it will help me, not only for my next fight but also in life in general. 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Respect 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a situation that I think anyone who tries to really comment on is being disingenuous because they weren't there. My gut reaction is 'that's not acceptable from a teacher' but I wasn't there, I didn't see the situation and I'm sure your own memory of it will probably be slightly different from what happened. 

The only real advice I can give is to think whether or not you agree with the other coach who said 'he gets like this' and decide whether or not you feel comfortable working with that particular coach. I'm sure even though you're emotional about it right now, that you won't care in a few months. I don't know the culture of Myanmar or Lethwei very well, but I'd suggest talking to the coach and finding it out if you and him are cool - if that is something that's acceptable to do within that culture.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2020 at 7:50 PM, AndyMaBobs said:

This is a situation that I think anyone who tries to really comment on is being disingenuous because they weren't there. My gut reaction is 'that's not acceptable from a teacher' but I wasn't there, I didn't see the situation and I'm sure your own memory of it will probably be slightly different from what happened. 

The only real advice I can give is to think whether or not you agree with the other coach who said 'he gets like this' and decide whether or not you feel comfortable working with that particular coach. I'm sure even though you're emotional about it right now, that you won't care in a few months. I don't know the culture of Myanmar or Lethwei very well, but I'd suggest talking to the coach and finding it out if you and him are cool - if that is something that's acceptable to do within that culture.

Thank you very much for your advice and it's also comforting having my emotions validated. With the language barrier and me still navigating the culture, I've opted for an acceptance approach. Like I don't understand it, but I'll accept it. It's tough this shit but would it be easy everybody would be doing it. I think you're right about talking to the trainer, hopefully I can create a bond with him so I understand this better. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, LengLeng said:

Thank you very much for your advice and it's also comforting having my emotions validated. With the language barrier and me still navigating the culture, I've opted for an acceptance approach. Like I don't understand it, but I'll accept it. It's tough this shit but would it be easy everybody would be doing it. I think you're right about talking to the trainer, hopefully I can create a bond with him so I understand this better. 

Don't be too forgiving when it comes to cultural differences though. I think when you get down to it, we're all more similar than we are different and it could just be that he's an asshole - but I wouldn't want to say because I wasn't there. Hope things sort themselves out!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, AndyMaBobs said:

Don't be too forgiving when it comes to cultural differences though. I think when you get down to it, we're all more similar than we are different and it could just be that he's an asshole -

That's so true! 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never been injured by my trainers, but I've had this shit-just-got-very-real experience of emotional rise and physical amplification to drive/meet it. It's scary. I'm sorry for your experience of it, but I've also learned from the experience and it's not all mistakes and terror. I don't know the culture where you are now, but in Thailand (where you know the culture) talking about it isn't a thing. There was a kind of acknowledgment of it, a few words to make sure that we both understood what happened, and that was that. Being bashed in the head like that is much worse than I've ever experienced, but learning to control emotion - including someone else's emotion - is part of the whole game, unfortunately... and fortunately. I hope your head is okay and that the relationship in the gym space is manageable.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:

I've never been injured by my trainers, but I've had this shit-just-got-very-real experience of emotional rise and physical amplification to drive/meet it. It's scary. I'm sorry for your experience of it, but I've also learned from the experience and it's not all mistakes and terror. I don't know the culture where you are now, but in Thailand (where you know the culture) talking about it isn't a thing. There was a kind of acknowledgment of it, a few words to make sure that we both understood what happened, and that was that. Being bashed in the head like that is much worse than I've ever experienced, but learning to control emotion - including someone else's emotion - is part of the whole game, unfortunately... and fortunately. I hope your head is okay and that the relationship in the gym space is manageable.

Thanks a lot Sylvie. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Recent Topics

  • Latest Comments

    • Great Step Taken. I would always admire Lumpinee as an inspiration!!!
    • I wanted to comment on this theme of MMA in regards also to what Kevin said on your last Muay-Thai Bones Podcast ep 26. Kevin spoke that he felt a red line had been crossed by allowing MMA in Lumpinee. He said He didnt want inferior MMA being shown there as one reason. He spoke of the inferior MMA of One Championship as compared to the UFC. Though the pool of fighters in One is smaller, it has for instance Team Lakay from the Philippines, and the Lee family of Hawaii:  Angela, Christian and now Victoria who could be champions in the UFC too, The UFC is best at exploiting and ruining the lives of its fighters who are subject to terrible contracts and endless bullying by this massive corporation.  Thank God One Championship exists, and many thanks to Chatri Sidyodtong for bringing Muay-Thai and Kickboxing into the program in 2018. The real problem of having MMA in Lumpinee is the problem of MMA itself. MMA usurped MuayThai years ago as the premier fighting art. In the early 90s when they had the first cage fights, it was also a contest of which style would prevail. Unfortunately BJJ 🤢 was the winner in those early years. Muay-Thai was only useful in standup, and striking could only prevail on the feet. If the fight went to the ground grapplers would prevail. Wrestlers, judokas jui jitsu, and sambo fighters could easily take down a stand-up fighter and submit or choke him out.  A third point which makes MMA the most attractive art is the streetfighting aspect which makes it more "realistic" to the bored average Western viewer. So MuayThai is seen as only one part, -and a less important aspect of MMA😢. What I am getting at basically is that from a Muay-Thai standpoint it would be better if MMA:                                         A) Never existed, or                                         B) Would just go away!😈
    • Seeing the Ungendered Body As Lines of Force quoting to begin... The above are the concluding thoughts of the excellent short article: Fight like a girl! An investigation into female martial practices in European Fight Books from the 14th to the 20th century by Daniel Jaquet. It presents in brief the basis of a coherent argument that though there are physiological differences between the sexes, distributed over a population, martial arts are about developing the advantages you can have that overcome any physical differences that might weigh against you. I present this argument about Muay Thai and women more at length in: The “Natural” Inferiority of Women and The Art of Muay Thai. Just as shorter fighters can fight (and beat) taller fighters, smaller fighters can beat heavier fighters and slower fighters can beat faster fighters, whatever projected or real physiological differences between women and men there may be, they can be overcome. That is the entire point of a fighting art, especially any art stemming from combat contexts. Interestingly enough, Daniel Jaquet actually points to modern "institutional competition" as over-informing the way we think about the capacities of a fighting female. We think in terms of classified differences (weight classes, and even rulesets, etc), and one of these classifications is simply gender. Fight Like a Girl.pdf The article documents a conspicuous absence of women regarded as (possibly) equal combatants for nearly 700 years in combat literature, as gender became more codified in the European tradition. Jaquet marks a foothold in the timeline with this sword and shield technical manual in 1305 (Liber de arte dimicatoria), one of the last documentations of an assumed and illustrated gendered equivalence, at least for purposes of instruction.     There is a great deal to think about in this topic at large, but here I'm most interested in the effects modernization, or rationalization of a fighting art can lead to ideas of gender equality, under fighting arts. And some of the ways modernization can push against it was well. Jaquet's finishing remarks (above) speak to this basic, rationalizing idea. Bodies are all different, they are all capable of differing physical actions, amounts of force being applied, speed of reaction times, etc. It follows, just as physical weaponry like swords or shields are force amplifiers, so too are the analogical "weapons and shields" (techniques) when practiced in a fighting art. If you know how to throw (or slip) a punch, you are within a force amplifier. The rationalization of fighting arts is a modernizing concept of extracting aspects of a traditional process of embodied knowledge practice, and classifying it, for pedagogic reasons, analysis, or commercial use. Seeing gendered bodies as force equations is rationalization. If you follow my writings you know that I have a great deal of hesitance regarding the eroding forces involved in the rationalization of fighting arts, both in terms of teaching and commercial performance (we can lose valuable and hidden habitus as we re-contextualize practices), but this does not mean that I wholesale resist rationalization/modernization. Instead it can act as a scissor, weaving and unweaving as it goes. As Jaquet points out, modernization itself also brings forth conventions which can regard important, liberating rationalizations of a fighting art. How Rationalized Jui-jitsu Changed the Early 20th Century Fight World What I'm really interested in is something that Jaquet does not pursue, and it's something that I have only touched on in my reading. What follows therefore is going to be only a broad sketch of intuitions that would be interesting areas of study. I was particularly struck by this 1905 photo included in his article: And the note tells us, this is the Duchess of Bedford training in Jiu-jitsu in England. I have not dug deeply into the history of Jiu-jitsu's immigration to England through Japanese masters, as well as other countries all over the world, but I assume this is part of a powerful rationalization impulse found in Japanese martial arts, much of it typified by Kanō Jigorō and his invention of Judo. Influenced by Western ideas of rational education and theories of utilitarianism Kano had the dream of modernizing traditional Jiu-jitsu along educational and health lines, and spreading this modernized version all over the world, eventually making it an Olympic sport. Judo and other forms of modern-leaning Jiu-jitsu spread internationally at this time, and the Duchess of Bedford's Jiu-jitsu no doubt was a part of this diaspora of the fighting art. Famously, it reached all the way down to Brazil, eventually becoming today's Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, but at this time it it also reached Siam (Thailand). King Vajiravudh of Siam (reign 1910-1925) was actually raised and educated in England in his youth and young adulthood, for nearly a decade before taking the throne. He brought with him not only an appreciation for British Boxing (which would deeply shape the development of Siam's Muay Thai), but also, one might expect, Judo/Jiu-jitsu which had growing presence in Britain. In 1907, two years after the photo of Mary Russell the Japanese community in Bangkok is recorded as teaching Jui-jitsu, in 1912 Prince Wabulya returns from study abroad in London having learned Judo, and teaches it to enthusiasts and in 1919 Judo is taught at the very important Suan Kulap College, along side British Boxing and the newly named "Muay Thai". It is enough to say that the modernization of Muay Boran into Muay Thai in the 1920s, in the image of Western Boxing (at the time Siam is making efforts to appear civilized in the eyes of the West), was part of an even larger, in fact world wide rationalization effort lead by Judo/Jui-jitsu. When we see this photo of Mary Russell in England, this is part of the one-and-the-same British movements of influence that created modern Muay Thai over the next decades (gloved, weight class, fixed stadium, rounds). Rationalization is happening. Notably, this unfolds it is in the context of King Chulalonkorn's previous religious reformation of Siam which would have lasting impact on the seats of Siam's Muay Thai, moving it away from temple teachings and magical practices. Siam is becoming a modern Nation, and the reformation of Buddhism (along with Muay Thai) is a significant part of that process: from The Modernization of Muay Thai – A Timeline   Returning to the rationalizing efforts of British Jui-jitsu which will almost necessarily un-moor rooted gender bias, with even political consequences. As Jaquet writes, the medical/physical perspective of empowerment and health ended up expressing itself in the Suffragettes Self-Defense Club, to aid in physical confrontations with police:   Now, this certainly was not happening in Siam. In fact Siam/Thailand was busy "civilizing" itself in the eyes of the West by importing the strong Victorian views of powerful visual differences between genders. Modes of dress, differentiating the sexes, were even at one point legally mandated by the government in coming decades. What we today read as quintessentially "Thai" traditional attitudes towards the differences between the sexes though complex is actually, perhaps best explained as a Western value and practice importation during the first half of the 20th century. The visual differentiation of the sexes in dress: Thai cultural mandate #10 (1941): Polite international-style attire   Civilizing the Savage and Savagizing the Civil What I'm interested in is the connection between the early 20th century rationalization/modernization of Jui-Juitsu in Britain, and today's rationalization-modernization of Muay Thai in Thailand. The schism between Thailand and Britain in terms of gender, under the guise of "civilization" recently and long last was symbolically bridged when women were finally integrated into Lumpinee Stadium promotion: The First Female Fight In Lumpinee Stadium Breaking the Prohibition. Note: the strong division between the genders of the late 1930s and 1940s in the "international-style" of work and dress is also in the context of the construction of Rajadamnern Stadium (1945) and Lumpinee Stadium (1956) under Thai fascism and Field Marshal Plaek Phibunsongkhram (Prime Minister    1938-1944 and 1948-1957). It is unknown what gendered Muay Thai practices may have developed without this heritage of an imitation of the West. As an contemporary outsider we tend to assume these "traditional" gendered differences as purely and essentially "Thai" and not a product of Western example or influence. Seeing these two photos, well over 100 years apart, in relationship to each other under the view of Internationalized Rationalization of fighting arts is fecund to examination. There is no clean line that leads between rationalization of the art and sport and the equality of the genders. Importantly, and not without irony, when King Vajiravudh modernized Muay Boran in imitation of British Boxing he was attempting to purge Siam and its fighting art of the impression of savageness. Contestants did die in the ring (probably quite rarely) with rope-bound hands, but more importantly the use of feet and elbows and probably much more of Siamese fighting was seen as primitive by British report. Codifying Muay Thai was no simple desire to just imitate the West as superior, as the West used the motive of civilizing "primitive" people to justify the colonization of peoples, including all the countries in Siam's orbit. No doubt King Vajiravudh had adopted many British aesthetics during his decade in British schooling, but there also something prophylactic to the transformation of Muay Thai before the eyes in the West. Now though, Thailand is bending its fighting art to the Internationalist tastes of greater violence, more aggression, as part of a vision that is pushing it to join what might be seen as a globalized Combat Sports Industrial Complex, battling for eyeballs. And, as I say ironically enough, with this comes the rising commercial viability of women seen as equals. As Lumpinee Stadium seeks to Internationalize itself it brings in women, and also it brings in the "savagery" for which Siam's fighting was (politically and colonially) stigmatized over 100 years ago, as MMA comes to its storied name. The "Be more civilized!" and "Distinguish the genders!" that was once demanded by the globalizing West has become "Be more violent!" and "Equalize the genders!" by the globalizing West...a West that is actually now an Internationalist vision. What is missing from this story perhaps is the equivalence of Britain's Suffragettes Self-Defense Club, which is to say the way in which equality under a martial arts rationalization is connected to the political fight for women's liberties and rights. From my view I suspect that the growing importance of respected female fighting in combat sports is an expression of the increased social and economic capital women have in a globalized world. Women as having real and imagined physical prowess in the traditionally male-coded ring (and cage) symbolically manifests actual changes in female powers in society. Women in rings has grown out of the Suffragettes Self-Defense Club, not now equalizing themselves with embodied knowledge in the streets against police, but rather signifying their political and socio-economic heft to a globalized world. Yet, as all things bend back, the commercialized capture of symbolized female power in the ring is part of its re-domestication, as women's bodies become sites of judgement and eroticized re-packaging, problemizing any overriding narrative of liberty. As women are called to the ring under the auspices of aggression-first promotional fight theater in the double-bind navigation of globalized freedoms, the role of rationalization remains circumspect. Rationalization can and does lead to the re-codification of the genders, as we see with the conventions of institutional competition, as well as within the commodification of the female person and body by combat sport entertainment, yet it also holds the power to un-moor entrenched sexism and bias which work to restrict the possibilities of women as fighter who stands as proxy to the power of women in general.
  • The Latest From Open Topics Forum

    • Great Step Taken. I would always admire Lumpinee as an inspiration!!!
    • I wanted to comment on this theme of MMA in regards also to what Kevin said on your last Muay-Thai Bones Podcast ep 26. Kevin spoke that he felt a red line had been crossed by allowing MMA in Lumpinee. He said He didnt want inferior MMA being shown there as one reason. He spoke of the inferior MMA of One Championship as compared to the UFC. Though the pool of fighters in One is smaller, it has for instance Team Lakay from the Philippines, and the Lee family of Hawaii:  Angela, Christian and now Victoria who could be champions in the UFC too, The UFC is best at exploiting and ruining the lives of its fighters who are subject to terrible contracts and endless bullying by this massive corporation.  Thank God One Championship exists, and many thanks to Chatri Sidyodtong for bringing Muay-Thai and Kickboxing into the program in 2018. The real problem of having MMA in Lumpinee is the problem of MMA itself. MMA usurped MuayThai years ago as the premier fighting art. In the early 90s when they had the first cage fights, it was also a contest of which style would prevail. Unfortunately BJJ 🤢 was the winner in those early years. Muay-Thai was only useful in standup, and striking could only prevail on the feet. If the fight went to the ground grapplers would prevail. Wrestlers, judokas jui jitsu, and sambo fighters could easily take down a stand-up fighter and submit or choke him out.  A third point which makes MMA the most attractive art is the streetfighting aspect which makes it more "realistic" to the bored average Western viewer. So MuayThai is seen as only one part, -and a less important aspect of MMA😢. What I am getting at basically is that from a Muay-Thai standpoint it would be better if MMA:                                         A) Never existed, or                                         B) Would just go away!😈
    • It was just announced that, starting January 8th of next year, Lumpinee will start promoting an afternoon show that is only children. There will be 4 bouts per card, starting at 1:30 PM. Children have been permitted to fight at Lumpinee for a long time, but there has always been a weight limit (and ostensibly an age limit, but I'm not sure what that was; the weight limit kind of takes care of the age limit at the same time) of 100 lbs. As it's been told to me by Legends and older fighters who entered Lumpinee at that 100 lbs minimum, it's a bit of a forgiving line and fighters sometimes had to eat and drink in order to try to hit 100 lbs, rather than anyone dropping down to it. This new show is lowering the weight limit to 80 lbs, which will allow younger fighters or will at least acknowledge what weight some of those fighters are actually at when they come to the stadium. The intention of the show is to give access and opportunity to dao rung or "rising stars" as they are called in Thai. It's unclear from the announcement who will be the promoter for this particular program, but it's in line with something that Sia Boat of Petchyindee had initiated and invested in for his own promotions prior to the most recent shutdowns from Covid. It is unlikely that this will include girls; but we'll see. Of note is that the graphic used for this announcement are two young fighters Jojo (red) and Yodpetaek (blue), two top young fighters are 12 and 13 years old, who recently fought to a draw on a high profile fight. Neither of these two fighters meet the weight requirement at 80 lbs.
    • To be honest, from my perspective, it feels like "ok we going to allow women fighting so we just gonna allow everything". Pyrrhic victory. 
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      1.1k
    • Total Posts
      10.1k
×
×
  • Create New...