How Much Power vs Technique on the Pads?

[Sunbab]

Hi everyone first post so sorry if it’s a dumb question. 
 

What sort of power should I be using in pad work? I understand that I don’t want to sacrifice technique for power in most circumstances. But I feel like people at the gym tend to go a little lighter on the power on pads. I sometimes get the impression that people think I might go too hard but no one says anything so I’m unsure.  
 

Any help/advice/thoughts. 
 

thanks

 

sonny 

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

On 2/8/2020 at 5:05 AM, Sonny said:

What sort of power should I be using in pad work?

I don't think it is a dumb question at all. I remember Sylvie training with the legend Kaensak who described the purpose of padwork as "charging the battery", which is probably how it was used in the Golden Age of Muay Thai when he reigned. It was pure power, tempo and fatigue, priming you for a fight. You had already developed your technique since youth. This older purpose of padwork comes into direct contrast with the western preoccupation with Thai cleanness of technique, and with padwork itself. A padman, generally, in Thailand, is just a worker, someone pushing the fighters physically. Not some elevated teacher (in most cases). Holding pads of someone is just doing work. In the west though it is used to teach technique, put to a different purpose. So it really depends where you fall on the spectrum. Generally though, you should be really pushing it on the pads, developing your ability to hold your technique, your tempo, your balance, even though fatigue. Padwork is exposing you to fight fatigue pressure and pushing you through ideal responses, I think.

[Sunbab]

Thanks Kevin. I guess it comes dow to who’s holding for me at the gym. I’m one of the taller heavier people at the gym so I can just dial it down power wise and focus on speed and technique if partnered with someone smaller. Good too know that it is the right thing to go hard when I can. Thanks again 

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

On 2/9/2020 at 9:22 PM, Sonny said:

I’m one of the taller heavier people at the gym so I can just dial it down power wise and focus on speed and technique if partnered with someone smaller.

You can do other things to keep the intensity on the pads with smaller holders. Stay close, keep your hands on the pads, increase the tempo, pressure in ways that aren't pure power. (I'm saying this as if we are talking about Thai style pads, not where other students are holding for you, as happens in the west, not knowing your situation).

[Sunbab]

7 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

You can do other things to keep the intensity on the pads with smaller holders. Stay close, keep your hands on the pads, increase the tempo, pressure in ways that aren't pure power. (I'm saying this as if we are talking about Thai style pads, not where other students are holding for you, as happens in the west, not knowing your situation).

Yeah I am referring to other students holding for me. I guess this is a big part of it. I never have issues when the instructors hold, especially our Thai trainer who is half my size. 

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

11 minutes ago, Sonny said:

Yeah I am referring to other students holding for me. I guess this is a big part of it.

Ha. I'm sorry, I really blanked out on that possibility pretty much altogether in my original answer. We're in Thailand, that is just a different world. My bad.

[Oliver]

That right there is one of the number one problems for us and the training we get in West. Right there. We should not being holding pads for each other, end of story. But businesswise for most gyms, it's the only way they think it makes sense,

[Barbara_K]

At least for the gyms I met so far in the West, there is no other possibility than students holding pads for each other - or you just stay with a heavy bag all day long.
Of course it's not the best way but at least you learn how to hold pads properly. Although I must admit that I'm unfortunately very uncreative when it comes to holding pads for someone.

Anyone any suggestions in how to learn to "hold pads properly" so that it get's fluent and the one training is having some benefit of it?

[Oliver]

The heavy bags, tremendous. We had them and real good for improving stuff. But often not allowed to even use them - we even got in trouble for it. All these years later and it still makes no sense.

[Barbara_K]

2 hours ago, Oliver said:

The heavy bags, tremendous. We had them and real good for improving stuff. But often not allowed to even use them - we even got in trouble for it. All these years later and it still makes no sense.

How do you mean it's not allowed to use heavy bags?
Isn't it a very basic means of training in every combat sports gym?

[Oliver]

12 hours ago, Barbara_K said:

How do you mean it's not allowed to use heavy bags?
 

Yeah this actually happened, 2nd gym ever back home. Big gym, loads and loads of good quality heavy bags - been there for years and still look brand new, never used. Trainer never said to use them in class, and if we came outside of class on our own time, the gym owner said no. Even if the whole room was empty. If you say you need to because you have a fight soon and you need to do your bag rounds? They still said no.

Crazy.

But like, you also not allowed to leave your equipment there over night. So you had to carry your 2 pairs of gloves, shinguards and headgear with you every day on the train. Pain in the ass. Probably the gym doesn't want to be liable if our stuff gets lost or stolen.

All business 

 

[Barbara_K]

When I read your situation, I'm really happy about the family-like places I've been at, especially both gyms over here in Finland. Both gyms are the trainers "one and everything", sometimes we cook together after training, we can come and go whenever we want, doors are open. Everything of course on a respectful basis.
At the one gym it was just too small to leave stuff there at the other one they agreed, as I normally go the 10km by bike and was asking if I can leave gloves and shinguards there.

No one ever thought about things getting stolen, why should someone take from one's family?

Sorry for getting too much off topic...

But to get back to topic: as over here, due to large amount of people, we split between pad work training and technical training. So, the pad work days are definitely the more exhausting ones and you work hard then.
The technical training is one on one training, focussing of course on precision, timing, etc... instead of power and it's more the advanced people joining these training units.

[Joseph Arthur De Gonzo]

On 2/7/2020 at 5:05 PM, Sunbab said:

Hi everyone first post so sorry if it’s a dumb question. 
What sort of power should I be using in pad work? I understand that I don’t want to sacrifice technique for power in most circumstances. But I feel like people at the gym tend to go a little lighter on the power on pads. I sometimes get the impression that people think I might go too hard but no one says anything so I’m unsure.  

No a dumb question.

If the person knows how to hold, you should def. go 100% power, explosiveness and speed. 

I am also a big guy, 100 kilo, 193cm, and pads holders in the west is a problem. Even in gyms in thailand I can see thais are discussing who's going to hold for me, or who will clinch with me. Even if I don't speak thai, it's easy to see that the like manager is saying, like, "you go" and he's like, "fuck that, did you see him, send this guy" and so on and so forth. I mean, it's no fun to hold pads for any hard hitter.

In the west. I try to have the same training partners who are more advance and can actually hold pads. 

The key is, don't train with newbies. But it's not always possible. Personally, if I see I'll have to train with a newby, I'll just go train on the bag. I might seem like an asshole, but bad pads holding lead to injuries, in the elbows, hips and so on, because the pads are not where they're supposed to be, or because they hold them too softly. 

If I have to train with a bad holder, then I'll practice good form and go to the bag after the class. Otherwise, I go with the face of the the person, start medium and go harder until I see in their face that it is enough. So funny our it's only partly related to the size of the person. Some pretty big guys will complain before some very tiny women. Anyways, good luck. 

Edited February 14, 2020 by Joseph Arthur De Gonzo

[Sunbab]

2 hours ago, Joseph Arthur De Gonzo said:

No a dumb question.

If the person knows how to hold, you should def. go 100% power, explosiveness and speed. 

I am also a big guy, 100 kilo, 193cm, and pads holders in the west is a problem. Even in gyms in thailand I can see thais are discussing who's going to hold for me, or who will clinch with me. Even if I don't speak thai, it's easy to see that the like manager is saying, like, "you go" and he's like, "fuck that, did you see him, send this guy" and so on and so forth. I mean, it's no fun to hold pads for any hard hitter.

In the west. I try to have the same training partners who are more advance and can actually hold pads. 

The key is, don't train with newbies. But it's not always possible. Personally, if I see I'll have to train with a newby, I'll just go train on the bag. I might seem like an asshole, but bad pads holding lead to injuries, in the elbows, hips and so on, because the pads are not where they're supposed to be, or because they hold them too softly. 

If I have to train with a bad holder, then I'll practice good form and go to the bag after the class. Otherwise, I go with the face of the the person, start medium and go harder until I see in their face that it is enough. So funny our it's only partly related to the size of the person. Some pretty big guys will complain before some very tiny women. Anyways, good luck. 

Thank you for your input. It’s helpful

[Oliver]

On 2/13/2020 at 4:08 PM, Barbara_K said:

 

No one ever thought about things getting stolen, why should someone take from one's family?

 

Heard that.

[Matty]

On 2/12/2020 at 11:55 PM, Oliver said:

Yeah this actually happened, 2nd gym ever back home. Big gym, loads and loads of good quality heavy bags - been there for years and still look brand new, never used. Trainer never said to use them in class, and if we came outside of class on our own time, the gym owner said no. Even if the whole room was empty. If you say you need to because you have a fight soon and you need to do your bag rounds? They still said no.

Crazy.

Yea I have experience not being allowed on the bag as well. As someone that works a 9-5 job, I can only train in the evening when classes are going. And even tho the class doesn't need the bags, they would not let me use it. Even as I'm training to build up conditioning to go to Thailand.

It's frustrating. Sometimes it seems ppl with power just makes your life so much harder, without much thought at all...

[AndyMaBobs]

On 2/7/2020 at 10:05 PM, Sunbab said:

Hi everyone first post so sorry if it’s a dumb question. 
 

What sort of power should I be using in pad work? I understand that I don’t want to sacrifice technique for power in most circumstances. But I feel like people at the gym tend to go a little lighter on the power on pads. I sometimes get the impression that people think I might go too hard but no one says anything so I’m unsure.  
 

Any help/advice/thoughts. 
 

thanks

 

sonny 

The average student holding Thai pads, doesn't really know how to hold them safely. I'd suggest focusing more on technique and using the bag for 'charging the battery' as it were. If your coach is holding the pads, then blast away.