Jump to content

Fighter and trainer bond


Recommended Posts

Hi guys, so in December i'm going to go to Thailand, maybe i'll even get a fight if i'm lucky and in a good shape, but the question i want to ask is about the trainer and the fighter bond. The thing i'm concerned about is my health, i'm going only in December, and i have decent amount of health problems, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to fight, the main one's that are on the body that could really make me a little less than 100% in a fight would be not fully healed knee ACL ligament, was torn, also turn TFCC on a right hand and a 3rd degree sprained ankle, i'm strongly doing the rehab and i hope i'll get 100% healed, but it's not a sure thing. The 2nd thing is Asthma, i was diagnosed from childhood, it's not as bad as it was when i was little, but if there is cold or some wind, i can immediately feel it's way harder to breathe, also considering the adrenaline and how nervous you would be fighting there, i bet it would make thing's similar, i just had to relax as much as i can. What i'm asking is should i tell all these things to my trainer and let him decide if i can fight once he watches me, or should i keep this 2 myself ? I know if i fight i don't show my opponent these things, but how about the trainer? Thanks in advance guys. Also if you're wondering i'll be going to Chiang Mai's Manop Gym. Starting to get a decent training from monday going to try to rehab as much of my problems as i can, increase endurance as much as i can and learn some technique of thai muay thai as much as i can because i only know some of the boxing techniques i used 2 do. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One more thing. From my reading and following fighters like Sylvie and a few others .... when you’re  in Thailand and going to fight.... MY UNDERSTANDING IS the trainers PUSH YOU TO THE LIMIT. You do whatever they say. They are the experts. They say jump you say how how and do it. What if you get an asthma attack or experience pain in your injured areas? If they know they may be able to give you an alternative exercise or drill or work out. Or offer tips on helping it heal and working around your injury. If they don’t know they can’t do that and help you. And you might get injured more.

If you have the heart to fight and the drive to train .... I’d think they see and respect that and  will work with you and help you.  And work around your injuries. ( I think over time all athletes have injuries to contend with. It goes with the territory and trainers know this)

 

(reiterating I have no personal experience. But I’m experienced in other ways if that makes sense. I don’t want to state my age 🤣🤣)

 

( adding I do have experience with very tough mt trainers) 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@RB Coop

I always feel this is the hardest part to deal with, how to manage injuries. You want to be responsible and so on, at the same time not risking that the trainer won't invest in you. Add some language barriers and it gets complicated  

I try to downplay any kind of injury but that's from a woman point of view. Some trainers are very traditional and think girls are much more sensitive so if I start talking about some issue it becomes a big deal. 

Anyhow in muay thai everybody is injured. If I were you I'd not mention it at first, try out the training, test your limits and how you can manage. Most likely your trainer will notice if you're in pain and if you need your asthma medication and will be able to determine whether you can fight or not regardless of you explaining your health issues or not. And probably you're not the first fighter with these issues he's trained. 

I've seen it many times where a newcomer arrives and directly goes to a trainer and explains everything about themselves and what they want and need and cannot do and the trainer is always like "yeah yeah" but my interpretation is what he's thinking is "let's first see you train". 

Just my two cents. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, MadelineGrace said:

One more thing. From my reading and following fighters like Sylvie and a few others .... when you’re  in Thailand and going to fight.... MY UNDERSTANDING IS the trainers PUSH YOU TO THE LIMIT. You do whatever they say. They are the experts. They say jump you say how how and do it. What if you get an asthma attack or experience pain in your injured areas? If they know they may be able to give you an alternative exercise or drill or work out. Or offer tips on helping it heal and working around your injury. If they don’t know they can’t do that and help you. And you might get injured more.

If you have the heart to fight and the drive to train .... I’d think they see and respect that and  will work with you and help you.  And work around your injuries. ( I think over time all athletes have injuries to contend with. It goes with the territory and trainers know this)

 

(reiterating I have no personal experience. But I’m experienced in other ways if that makes sense. I don’t want to state my age 🤣🤣)

 

( adding I do have experience with very tough mt trainers) 

That's me in the pic, thanks. I can go thru pain no problem had broken metacarpals , played basketball and some other shit until i find out i need a surgery. Asthma is the real deal, i couldn't manage the sympthoms if it went over the roof. Once i'm given a task i know i'll be able to do anything, the question is the price i'm going to pay. I remember back in the day i promised myself i'll run 5miles  ,there is 1 beautiful place on the start of the autumn, after like a week a got lung inflamation, but i didn't want to break my promise. The run was really hard, i almost passed out, but i did that 5 mile jog and the panoramic view from that spot was crazy good. I ended up in hospital because i almost died from lack of oxygen. As far as tasks go i can manage everything, it's just the price you know... I'd love input from people with more experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, LengLeng said:

@RB Coop

I always feel this is the hardest part to deal with, how to manage injuries. You want to be responsible and so on, at the same time not risking that the trainer won't invest in you. Add some language barriers and it gets complicated  

I try to downplay any kind of injury but that's from a woman point of view. Some trainers are very traditional and think girls are much more sensitive so if I start talking about some issue it becomes a big deal. 

Anyhow in muay thai everybody is injured. If I were you I'd not mention it at first, try out the training, test your limits and how you can manage. Most likely your trainer will notice if you're in pain and if you need your asthma medication and will be able to determine whether you can fight or not regardless of you explaining your health issues or not. And probably you're not the first fighter with these issues he's trained. 

I've seen it many times where a newcomer arrives and directly goes to a trainer and explains everything about themselves and what they want and need and cannot do and the trainer is always like "yeah yeah" but my interpretation is what he's thinking is "let's first see you train". 

Just my two cents. 

Thanks for the advice ! 🙂

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/6/2019 at 10:48 PM, LengLeng said:

@RB Coop

I always feel this is the hardest part to deal with, how to manage injuries. You want to be responsible and so on, at the same time not risking that the trainer won't invest in you. Add some language barriers and it gets complicated  

I try to downplay any kind of injury but that's from a woman point of view. Some trainers are very traditional and think girls are much more sensitive so if I start talking about some issue it becomes a big deal. 

Anyhow in muay thai everybody is injured. If I were you I'd not mention it at first, try out the training, test your limits and how you can manage. Most likely your trainer will notice if you're in pain and if you need your asthma medication and will be able to determine whether you can fight or not regardless of you explaining your health issues or not. And probably you're not the first fighter with these issues he's trained. 

I've seen it many times where a newcomer arrives and directly goes to a trainer and explains everything about themselves and what they want and need and cannot do and the trainer is always like "yeah yeah" but my interpretation is what he's thinking is "let's first see you train". 

Just my two cents. 

Based on this I’m retracting what I posted above! Disregard it !  😊. Lengleng would know better than I! 

 

As a human being  though- please don’t be foolish re your asthma - I don’t want you to die! 🙁Asthma is no joke! 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MadelineGrace said:

Based on this I’m retracting what I posted above! Disregard it !  😊. Lengleng would know better than I! 

 

As a human being  though- please don’t be foolish re your asthma - I don’t want you to die! 🙁Asthma is no joke! 

No no please don't 😅. I think it depends on context and how he feels about his trainer. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not like i'm trying to die, i just always give 100% for everything i'm doing, it's only been so bad only once , so that's not 2 bad considering i had asthma from 3 yrs old, so it's like 22years and only 1 bad asthma attack. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, RB Coop said:

It's not like i'm trying to die, i just always give 100% for everything i'm doing, it's only been so bad only once , so that's not 2 bad considering i had asthma from 3 yrs old, so it's like 22years and only 1 bad asthma attack. 

I’m glad to hear that, and your work ethic is impressive! I wish you luck and success! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, RB Coop said:

It's not like i'm trying to die, i just always give 100% for everything i'm doing, it's only been so bad only once , so that's not 2 bad considering i had asthma from 3 yrs old, so it's like 22years and only 1 bad asthma attack. 

Not to scare you, but since you have asthma just to let you know the air quality in Bangkok has been awful lately. I think Chiang Mai was ok. Usually air is bad Feb-Mar but this year it's been worse lasted well into May and started earlier. Might be a good idea to invest in a mask for runs. You can check PM 2.5 using apps or here: https://aqicn.org/city/chiang-mai/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, LengLeng said:

Not to scare you, but since you have asthma just to let you know the air quality in Bangkok has been awful lately. I think Chiang Mai was ok. Usually air is bad Feb-Mar but this year it's been worse lasted well into May and started earlier. Might be a good idea to invest in a mask for runs. You can check PM 2.5 using apps or here: https://aqicn.org/city/chiang-mai/

the only bad thing for me is when it's really strong wind or when it's cold, the air quality doesn't really do much when it comes to asthma. Also a quick question, do you use groin protection and shin guards always? Should i get some? 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, RB Coop said:

the only bad thing for me is when it's really strong wind or when it's cold, the air quality doesn't really do much when it comes to asthma. Also a quick question, do you use groin protection and shin guards always? Should i get some? 

Ah ok sounds good. When it hits 170 and above I get a headache and nausea and also got a rash in my throat. But it's manageable and December should be fine.

No idea about groin protection as women rarely use them when fighting although some do. Some guys will use during clinch but not very common. But during fights of course. 

I have my own shin guards but of the softer kind (like socks) and some trainers don't like them so I usually get the regular ones from the gym when sparring (always used during muay thai sparring IMO but I know some gyms do sparring without). But shin guards from gyms are of varying quality so it might be good to get your own. 

I bought all my equipment in Thailand (training gloves, fighting gloves, mouthguard, wraps, shin guards, tape, liniment, vaseline, gauze,  mongkol) so I'm not sure how western prices compare. But I assume prices in Thailand are ok. And you can always get most stuff from the gym (except mouthguard of course) but they can be smelly and old. 

As the Thais say: up to you 😅.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, LengLeng said:

Ah ok sounds good. When it hits 170 and above I get a headache and nausea and also got a rash in my throat. But it's manageable and December should be fine.

No idea about groin protection as women rarely use them when fighting although some do. Some guys will use during clinch but not very common. But during fights of course. 

I have my own shin guards but of the softer kind (like socks) and some trainers don't like them so I usually get the regular ones from the gym when sparring (always used during muay thai sparring IMO but I know some gyms do sparring without). But shin guards from gyms are of varying quality so it might be good to get your own. 

I bought all my equipment in Thailand (training gloves, fighting gloves, mouthguard, wraps, shin guards, tape, liniment, vaseline, gauze,  mongkol) so I'm not sure how western prices compare. But I assume prices in Thailand are ok. And you can always get most stuff from the gym (except mouthguard of course) but they can be smelly and old. 

As the Thais say: up to you 😅.

do you use the tape in training or only when you have fights and only wraps in the training? also vaseline, gauze, liniment and mongkol for fighting i guess or do you also use it for training? i only have 16Oz gloves, i guess that could be for sparring, for training might need a smaller size.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, RB Coop said:

do you use the tape in training or only when you have fights and only wraps in the training? also vaseline, gauze, liniment and mongkol for fighting i guess or do you also use it for training? i only have 16Oz gloves, i guess that could be for sparring, for training might need a smaller size.

Liniment many use during training and you can get it at 7/11.

At my gym we sometimes use vaseline during sparring when we do hard, serious sparring (like mock fights) but not sure how common it is. We never spar with elbows or knees other than in a very very controlled way. Vaseline also in every 7/11.

Tape and gauze and mongkol only during fights and mongkol gym can provide. I wanted my own as women have to enter ring crawling in under bottom rope and only get the mongkol put on after we have entered the ring so somehow I wanted to counter this bs with having my own headpiece. 

16 oz. we use during sparring mainly. And men 12 or 14 during training. Women 10 or 12. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, LengLeng said:

Liniment many use during training and you can get it at 7/11.

At my gym we sometimes use vaseline during sparring when we do hard, serious sparring (like mock fights) but not sure how common it is. We never spar with elbows or knees other than in a very very controlled way. Vaseline also in every 7/11.

Tape and gauze and mongkol only during fights and mongkol gym can provide. I wanted my own as women have to enter ring crawling in under bottom rope and only get the mongkol put on after we have entered the ring so somehow I wanted to counter this bs with having my own headpiece. 

16 oz. we use during sparring mainly. And men 12 or 14 during training. Women 10 or 12. 


Ahh so i'll have to get 12oz, thought so, nice! Have couple of ideas already that i want to try, will  have to talk with the guy's i'm sparring so they don't get hurt tho. 🙂 Thanks for the information!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, RB Coop said:


Ahh so i'll have to get 12oz, thought so, nice! Have couple of ideas already that i want to try, will  have to talk with the guy's i'm sparring so they don't get hurt tho. 🙂 Thanks for the information!

Oh please don't take my 2 cents as a rule 😅. Just my observation from training. I train with 12 oz which is slightly more than other girls but not overly so. I fight around 60kg and fight gloves are 8 oz. A lot of times the thai fighters at my gym (48kg-64kg) just take any gloves to do pads could be 8 or 12 or 14. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, LengLeng said:

Oh please don't take my 2 cents as a rule 😅. Just my observation from training. I train with 12 oz which is slightly more than other girls but not overly so. I fight around 60kg and fight gloves are 8 oz. A lot of times the thai fighters at my gym (48kg-64kg) just take any gloves to do pads could be 8 or 12 or 14. 

I'm always around 80-85kg. What size gloves you get for the fight in the stadium? 8-10?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is quite interesting, so many opinions out there on best gloves to hit pads with.

Some friends tell me small, for training better accuracy, and so they feel closer to the gloves you fight in, so just 10s or 8s for girls. Other friends say heavier gloves train your arms better in keeping your guard up, but that might be an Eastern European thing rather than Thai, dunno.

Sparring 16s for the boys. At my gym trainers even went and checked our gloves and if somebody had 14s they made them change and use the gym's spare 16s instead. And they were super serious about it. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Oliver said:

This is quite interesting, so many opinions out there on best gloves to hit pads with.

Some friends tell me small, for training better accuracy, and so they feel closer to the gloves you fight in, so just 10s or 8s for girls. Other friends say heavier gloves train your arms better in keeping your guard up, but that might be an Eastern European thing rather than Thai, dunno.

Sparring 16s for the boys. At my gym trainers even went and checked our gloves and if somebody had 14s they made them change and use the gym's spare 16s instead. And they were super serious about it. 

 

Yeah for sparring it's def 16, but for training i'm not sure, 16 seems way 2 bulky. Maybe 12 or somth. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Oliver said:

 Other friends say heavier gloves train your arms better in keeping your guard up, but that might be an Eastern European thing rather than Thai, dunno.

 

Using 12 when training I feel this effect too, that I'm getting stronger. And when I'm using 10 I have more energy left after padrounds. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Most Recent Topics

  • Latest Comments

    • Here are some thoughts I had today regarding padwork which made me think about your question. It doesn't connect directly to your question, but it does open up thinking about padwork in different ways. (Also, thank you for your kind words - I realize that I neglected thanking you as it means a lot when people learn these deeper qualities, can feel that "language" element, and its bothered me that I didn't respond to what you said). If you click the top banner of the below you'll be taken to it. It is somewhat advanced stuff though, not easy to do or get to, but it does open up different ideas about what padwork is for, and what you can get out of it.  
    • Muay Khao in Padwork - note a little bit advanced stuff Talking a little more about Muay Khao training (and padwork), beyond some basic things like the padman doing rounds of "latched on" work where you trailer hitch and continuously knee or work into knees, there is a shape to Muay Khao that involves building up the fatigue in your opponent, which involves continuous pressuring and tempoing early on, nothing rushed, importantly with the mentality of depositing fatigue. Even if you don't have a padman aware of this, you can do this on your own, of your own device. People do not think much of manipulating or effecting your padman, but taking cue from David Goggins trying to mentally break his SEAL Team trainers, you can use your padman's energy managements to become aware of their fatigue, tempoing up or displacing them when they start to manage. This builds up your own sense of perception, becoming acutely aware of its signs, and developing responses, things that will serve you well in fights. This doesn't mean going HARD, like 200%. It means managing your own fatigue while you work that edge and tax your padman. The purpose of this is to slow reaction times and decision quality in later rounds in fights. You don't win fights early in Muay Khao work, you prepare the material so you can work late. A great padman will see and help you train this shape of the rounds, even as they manage their own fatigue. It goes without saying this involves not just "following along" with called strikes, which I believe is detrimental on a deeper level, because what you are training in those cases is "being dictated to". Lots of fighters have this problem, they have spent countless hours of (unconsciously) learning to be steered, so when their opponent looks to dictate timing, space or rhythm they have years of being comfortable being dictated to. This though is a subtle line to walk, and it depends a great deal on the experience of the fighter and the quality of the padman. Ideally, you want padwork to gravitate towards a dialogue, a back and forth, which mirrors the dialogue of fighting, accepting dictated tempos and spacing, modifying them, shaping them in return. Good padmen (who aren't just burning you out with kicks or holding combos over and over, largely ex-experienced fighters) will recognize this dialogue dimension, and you'll bring out more of their "fighter energy" and creativity, which is Golden stuff. Lesser experienced padman, or padmen who are just grinding, may not respond well, but you want to get into that zone of your 5 rounds being shaped like a fight...and for a Muay Khao fighter that means depositing fatigue in your padman early, if you can. Even if you can't, the aim of recognizing stalls, energy management, gatherings, and working on them yourself (not being passive) is a perceptual skill set you want to develop. For Muay Khao fighters though, you want to get to that clinch, or those finishing frames in the later rounds. You have to feel those angles of dominance, the cherry of what you built in previous rounds. Great padman know this, and develop pathways later where your body can sense, can experience those finishing elements. Femeu fighters, other style fighters, have other shapes in their fights. This is specific to Muay Khao.
    • Watched Sylvie's padwork today, something new I really have encouraged to happen and that she has been doing daily for a few weeks (?). Tons of in-the-pocket rhythms and improvisations, space management. I can see lots of growth, creativity, enjoyment. Good, good stuff. Unfortunately just like everyone else who has trained her for maybe 4 years now, they all want to take away her clinch. Nobody likes her clinch because it feels reductive. Hey, nobody respected the muay of Samson, Langsuan, even Dieselnoi either, this is a long story with the style. They don't care that she can beat 60 kg girls with it, and is hell for pretty much anyone to face, and has won nearly 200 fights with it (almost every win a direct result of her clinch), its an anti-style especially to the contemporary eye (which has been shaped by Entertainment Muay Thai). This is really good work, but its been years since she's trained with anyone who loved her Muay Khao stalking style and developed her into a clinch demon. All of her clinch dominance in the last several years, pretty much since COVID, has been pretty much kept on life-support by her alone, every clinch partner much bigger than her, stronger, Thai, so she just is managing controls, never being able to experience dominance in the grab, that taste of blood in the water with the lock, every kru in their own way discouraging her from the one thing she has been the best in the world among female fighters at. This is just the morphing of the opportunities of muay in Thailand, and something that has to be lived through. I'm excited for the in-the-pocket work, it fits nicely with what she's been developing with Chatchai. It's very good stuff. But ideally, all that pocket work should be used to pressure and punish the pocket so her clinch is even more unstoppable. Not sure how to get there, giving the state of Muay Thai and the place clinch has within it now. It's been sheer willpower from Sylvie that she is even the clinch fighter she has been over the last several years. Clinch is a vulnerable skill, it erodes quickly, and true clinch requires all kinds of rhythms and set ups to make it effective in the later rounds. It's a very complex, systematic approach to fighting. It's not just about winning clinch positions. It's the culminating persistence of them, using fatigue as a weapon so mistakes get made, positions neutralized too slowly, a bit late, windows getting bigger and bigger. I'm hoping this all comes together. If it does, and Sylvie can regain that late locking effectiveness, watch out. It will be quite a combination. This difficulty though, in the wide view, is that proper Muay Khao training likely does not exist as a whole any longer in Thailand, and that we've had to piece together elements of it even to get this far. There is an incredible bricolage to training in Thailand if you want to reach back into what the Golden Age was, because so much of the methods of muay have changed. Not only is the sport fought differently, and trained differently, its also thought differently even among Thais.
  • The Latest From Open Topics Forum

    • Hi, i have a general question concerning Muay-Thai training camps, are there any serious ones in Europe at all? I know there are some for kickboxing in the Netherlands, but that's not interesting to me or what i aim for. I have found some regarding Muay-Thai in google searches, but what iv'e found seem to be only "retreats" with Muay-Thai on a level compareable to fitness-boxing, yoga or mindfullness.. So what i look for, but can't seem to find anywhere, are camps similar to those in Thailand. Grueling, high-intensity workouts with trainers who have actually fought and don't just do this as a hobby/fitness regime. A place where you can actually grow, improve technique and build strength and gas-tank with high intensity, not a vacation... No hate whatsoever to those who do fitness-boxing and attend retreats like these, i just find it VERY ODD that there ain't any training camps like those in Thailand out there, or perhaps i haven't looked good enough?..  Appericiate all responses, thank you! 
    • In my experience, 1 pair of gloves is fine (14oz in my case, so I can spar safely), just air them out between training (bag gloves definitely not necessary). Shinguards are a good idea, though gyms will always have them and lend them out- just more hygienic to have your own.  2 pairs of wraps, 2 shorts (I like the lightweight Raja ones for the heat), 1 pair of good road running trainers. Good gumshield and groin-protector, naturally. Every time I finish training, I bring everything into the shower (not gloves or shinnies, obviously) with me to clean off the (bucketsfull in my case) of sweat, but things dry off quickly here outside of the monsoon season.  One thing I have found I like is smallish, cotton briefs for training (less cloth, therefore sweaty wetness than boxers, etc.- bring underwear from home- decent, cotton stuff is strangely expensive here). Don't weigh yourself down too much. You might want to buy shorts or vests from the gym(s) as (useful) souvenirs. I recommend Action Zone and Keelapan, next door, in Bangkok (good selection and prices):  https://www.google.com/maps/place/Action+Zone/@13.7474264,100.5206774,17z/data=!4m14!1m7!3m6!1s0x30e29931ee397e41:0x4c8f06926c37408b!2sAction+Zone!8m2!3d13.7474212!4d100.5232523!16s%2Fg%2F1hm3_f5d2!3m5!1s0x30e29931ee397e41:0x4c8f06926c37408b!8m2!3d13.7474212!4d100.5232523!16s%2Fg%2F1hm3_f5d2?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
    • Hey! I totally get what you mean about pushing through—it can sometimes backfire, especially with mood swings and fatigue. Regarding repeated head blows and depression, there’s research showing a link, especially with conditions like CTE (Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy). More athletes are recognizing the importance of mental health alongside training. 
    • If you need a chill video editing app for Windows, check out Movavi Video Editor. It's super easy to use, perfect for beginners. You can cut, merge, and add effects without feeling lost. They’ve got loads of tutorials to help you out! I found some dope tips on clipping videos with Movavi. It lets you quickly cut parts of your video, so you can make your edits just how you want. Hit up their site to learn more about how to clip your screen on Windows and see how it all works.
    • Hi all, I am fortunate enough to have the opportunity to be traveling to Thailand soon for just over a month of traveling and training. I am a complete beginner and do not own any training gear. One of the first stops on my trip will be to explore Bangkok and purchase equipment. What should be on my list? Clearly, gloves, wraps, shorts and mouthguard are required. I would be grateful for some more insight e.g. should I buy bag gloves and sparring gloves, whether shin pads are worthwhile for a beginner, etc. I'm partiularly conscious of the heat and humidity, it would make sense to pack two pairs of running shoes, two sets of gloves, several handwraps and lots of shorts. Any nuggets of wisdom are most welcome. Thanks in advance for your contributions!   
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      1.4k
    • Total Posts
      11.3k
×
×
  • Create New...