Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu

One of the reasons I think that the traditional Muay music isn't necessary for Western promotions is that it's not live. Ever. The live version is great because the musicians not only read the action and respond, but also press the action by speeding up or getting louder, etc. It's like an orchestra pit under the stage of a ballet, versus those gymnastics floor routines set to a Michael Jackson mix (or something). They're not the same thing as each other. The use of the traditional music in the West is a nod to the traditions of Muay Thai, which I like. I wasn't allowed to do my Ram Muay at many of my fights in the US, first because they changed it so that only Pros were allowed, then they just cut the bullshit and said there's no time. There have been a handful of times in Thailand that I've been told not to do the Ram Muay (the Wai Kru bowing to your corner bit is ALWAYS allowed) due to televised shows not having time, or to speed it up and do an abridged version. I bitched about not being able to do my Ram Muay in America, quite a lot. I even said "fuck you" and did it anyway more than once. That said, keeping the music and butchering the art doesn't make up for it. People who do videos shadowboxing with a Mongkol on their head, it's got good intentions but what the hell is going on? If you're going to leave out some elements because they're strange to foreign audiences, that's fine. A Ram Muay is hard to watch if you don't know what you're looking at. The traditional music isn't easy on the ears if you aren't accustomed to it. But changing the movements, rule sets, and integrity of the sport - that feels more nefarious to me than the music. If they stopped playing it in Thailand, however (which, THAI FIGHT and other "international shows" have opted to do), I'd feel totally differently. It's a loss from the Thai tradition, it's a nod or not from the West.

I'm a bit inspired by Coach James's recent thread about kids "fighting" (they're sparring, but James is bothered by it and in his mind used the word fighting in his title, which I think is significant), but also because I just was watching some hard sparring at my gym here in Thailand. Here's the set up. In the West, we tend to have this "holier than thou" attitude toward "technical sparring" over "hard sparring," usually accompanied by some kind of credit to how "technical and light" sparring in Thailand is. Okay, sure, I've seen very little sparring among Thais in which they're trying to hurt or knock each other's heads off (I have seen some), whereas I have seen that kind of sparring in Thailand but usually when one or both of the people participating are not-Thai. This said, when Thais spar with shinpads and gloves, it's not "light." The word for sparring in Thai len cherng, literally means to "play techniques." That's the point, and usually the spirit of it. But it's not "light" in the sense that the West tends to characterize it as for their own uses and purposes. It is more "lighthearted," but the actual power of strikes and intention is well over the 60% that I'd qualify as "going light." I was watching two sets of sparring at my gym yesterday. The first couple were both not-Thai. One guy was from India, the other from Italy. The Indian guy always goes too hard, as judged by me for what's appropriate for practice. But he's never told by the coaches to turn it down, which means they see a purpose to how hard he strikes. He also tires easily. And they never put him with someone who is close to a fight, because they know he goes this hard. The Italian guy has way more experience than the Indian guy and, while he got battered pretty good by hard leg kicks and punches in the first round and a half, he took the lead with clinch and knees to "win" the sparring - as if it were a fight, judged by others. The thing is this: the punches and kicks were 100%. The emotional stress and intention was 100%. And the guy who goes too hard, by gassing and ultimately being bettered in the end, his disappointment was 100%. All of those elements are important for learning how to fight. You have to deal with real stress. You have to deal with the consequences of coming out too hard, too early, if you don't have the stamina to keep it going. You have to learn how your power overwhelms someone and then doesn't. And likewise, the Italian guy has to learn that you can't only practice going in and having everything controlled for you. I was pretty impressed by the way he handled it, honestly, and I'm not very generous in things I like about this guy. As an important note, while nobody was told to take their power down, there were shinpads, large gloves, a referee and spectators to break the two men when things were too heated or stagnant, or to stop the time early if needed. It's still being supervised, just not interfered with very much. The next couple were two Thai boys, both about 14-16, same weight as each other but a gulf in experience. One has been training and fighting since he was 8 and surely 100+ fights, the other a handful of years with only 20 or so fights. One loves to go backwards (the experienced one) and gets yelled at for it, the other likes to come forward and strike pretty hard. They both kicked and punched less than 100% power, but not far below that. There were exchanges when the power would go up, but then it would come back down. There was never any "danger" throughout that match, unlike the other one. The biggest difference, however, was the emotional charge. There were moments when the two Thai fighters were amped up a bit, the dominance was real. But they weren't trying to hurt each other. They were trying to dominate each other and shut the other down. It wasn't like that with the non-Thais; there was an element that felt not in control with them, an emotional derailment that felt dangerous... although the Thai men who sat around the ring to watch found it incredibly entertaining. So here's my point: there is a purpose to hard sparring. There is purpose to "technical" sparring. There is an art to both, and I think both are required for the development of a fighter. But what's "light" about Thai sparring is not the power of strikes; it honestly is in the "asshole factor" of emotional energy put into the sparring itself. It's a lack of control that makes hard sparring dangerous or not worthwhile, not the power itself. Stress is an important training tool. Disappointment is a training tool. Gassing out is an important training tool. To only ever advocate for some kind of pantomime sparring robs fighters of those tools. This was Jame's original post discussion that lead to these thoughts:

hahaha, I also thought way more about why it's in a hotel room and why they are dressed (well, only the girl is ever dressed particularly) than the actual sparring element. I also watched pretty closely and it doesn't seem like they make contact very often, and when they do not very hard. If you look, there's almost no impact response from the receiver at all. But, who knows. I'm not there. As someone who witnessed Phetjee Jaa and Mawin do TONS of "show fights" for a couple of years, I can attest to how "real" something looks from a short distance and how utterly choreographed it is in real life. People still share videos of their demos with gushing comments that reveal they believe it to be a real fight, whereas in reality they're barely touching each other. Also, having watched little kids train in the gym with huge gloves and shinguards, versus tiny gloves and no shinguards, I tend to believe that protective gear is far less protective than it's made out to be. Is the issue headgear? That their gloves are small? That they don't have chest protectors? Mouthguards? Chest pads? Why is a gym safer than a hotel or livingroom, other than obvious obstacles like furniture, which they don't seem to be getting close to? Have you seen those videos of the little girl with the crazy ponytail that whips around while she does super-speed boxing combinations? It's super rehearsed, people share it like she's a phenom, and it's all a set pattern but just really, really fast. Is that different just because she's hitting pads or a tree (again, not really touching the tree, obviously) instead of having someone in front of her? It's Wu Shu performance more than it is real sparring or fighting, in my eyes.

I've seen a few versions of this now. One in which the girl is wearing a frilly dress, one in which they look dressed more or less the same, and this one. They're all in hotel rooms, which is a bit odd. I have 3 older brothers and none of us ever learned combat arts to a significant degree. I think my brothers did 3 weeks of Aikido or something. So, when we hit each other it was unskilled. All that said, I train in a gym that has seen and currently has a few sets of brothers. They are not the same size as each other (not nearly as close as these two appear) and occasionally take it upon themselves to clinch or spar. Our trainer doesn't match them up - that often leads to "Jai Rohn" emotional states because... well, siblings. But when they choose to do it on their own it's very playful, even when rough at times. I'm a fan of it. The other day Alex and Bank, who are not real siblings but have grown up in the gym together for the past 5+ years (ages 13-18, so significant time at that phase) were sparring - directed to do so by our trainer because they have fights at the same time - and it got HEATED. They never lost control, but I haven't seen them look that much like brothers in years, just by the rivalry.

I still get nervous in the last training sessions before any fight, because I think that how I "perform" there should be a copy of how I will perform in the ring. And I'm very often tired, sore, mentally fatigued, and hurt somewhere or many places. All of that comes with you into the ring, but you don't have to give it importance. To have doubt os very, VERY normal. You can fight against it, or you can fight with it there but it's not significant. Physical pain is the same. You can't "leave it at the door," as it will be in the ring with you, but you don't have to give it significance. "It hurts, but that doesn't MEAN anything." Remind her that she's already done the work. There's nothing more that needs to be done. Confidence is not first a feeling, it is first an action. If she's not feeling confident, fine - just ACT confident, whatever her version is, days and hours before climbing into the ring. Like putting on a coat. Those thoughts are just as real as her doubts; doubts, also, are only thoughts. They are no more real than self-belief. She has both, both can be real, but you have to breathe life into the one you want. Also, fights don't mean anything more than what happens during the minutes they are taking place. They do not determine ability, or worth. They determine if you like fighting or not.

Hi Jose, welcome to the forum! We're excited to have you here, to share interesting conversations and topics about Muay Thai. You're certainly not the only one here trying to balance Muay Thai with school

It doesn't elevate to the same degree that the Golden Kick that I see among the top fighters of Thailand does. His explanation of kicking "up" and then more or less twisting it in is what it looks like when they do it, but it's not two separate parts, which his is. It's like his has a joint and the Golden Kick doesn't... it kind of bends. When Karuhat does it, it's like his foot traces the line of the opponent's body, right up the side, before bashing inward. But you never see it take that turn toward the body. You can see that moment in the video demonstration, as well as the fight examples included therein. Almost like a word that can be pronounced as either one syllable or two.

Tying this to art is interesting in a few ways, both in that the poor artist had to have "patrons" who supported them - and sportsman have to have an audience and a camp - but also in that the rich practitioner/artist is able to devote himself due to his leisure. Listening to Joe Rogan, I'm always pretty surprised by how "good" a lot of these celebrity Jiu-jitsu players become, but then it's not that surprising at all when they have a lot of time to devote to it. It's not a "hobby" just because they're wealthy, but in a poor practitioner it's a kind of hunger because the way to "find time" to practice is to either devote yourself entirely and kind of let other responsibilities atrophy, or you're a "weekend warrior" because you have to work all the shifts, take care of all the kids, etc. A painter who can paint 20 hours a day is "better" than a painter who can paint 2 hours a day, and whether you're rich or poor doesn't make a difference other than how you go about having the time to dedicate yourself to it. In the world of Muay Thai in Thailand, this conversation becomes interesting because it used to be like Fighting Chickens, where a rich man would pay a trainer to take care of his chickens, like a patron. A gym supported the fighters so that they could fight. Introduce the affluent (relatively or directly) westerner who pays for training and over enough decades the patterns of the gym space actually change. In Pattaya this is distinct. Kru Nu is the head of the second oldest gym in Pattaya (behind Sityodthong) and holds a certificate that identifies him as a real traditional fighter's gym (of which there are only 2-3 left in Pattaya, despite the small city have TONS of gyms now), as opposed to a commercial business. Kru Nu's gym, Petchrungruang, is still a business. But it has a certificate from the Muay Thai Authority of Chonburi (our province) that identifies him as a different class than the newer gyms, which cater mainly to tourism... and have taxes and certificates from the Board of Tourism, rather than the Sport Authority. The tourist market allows gyms to cover their overhead and it puts much less pressure on the fighters of the gym to earn a living to support the whole operation. That's kind of good in ways. But it changes the priorities of the gym a lot, which I love about Petchrungruang because Kru Nu invites anyone and everyone to train the same way his real fighters do, but they're his priority. He's not catering to the guest, so to speak. The commercial gyms are doing much better, business-wise, and with money comes power and they can throw weight around for opportunities. Something a small gym can't necessarily do, but has very long-held connections with promoters and other gym owners (Thai and western, many of the western gym owners came through Kru Nu's gym at some point). Even Sityodthong, after the death of the absolute Legend founder, Master Yodthong, has completely changed now that it's under the management of his children, who grew up affluent.

The explanation sounds a lot like the Golden Kick, although the execution looks a bit different to me. That might go down to experience. The "up the side of the body and then twist to turn it over" is very much a Golden Kick. It would be interesting to me to learn where this pedagogy originated, for it to be so widespread in the UK. I don't think we have a "standard" way of teaching the kick in the US and a lot of the kicks I do see are more "roundhouse", akin to Karate. I reckon that would be from the backgrounds of the teachers in all these different schools, a lot of whom come from Tae Kwon Do or Karate and then turned to Muay Thai after many many years in those other arts. So it's hard to change what your body knows already. Did the UK not have a Tae Kwon Do and Karate phase the way the US did?

I think Rambaa (Baan Rambaa) in Pattaya one of the best gyms for kids, as he has something like 30 kids training at all times. They're pretty small and aged 6-15, with a few late-teen and adult fighters, so matching to the size of your fighters is a good bet but not guaranteed. Because of the sheer number, chances of clinching and sparring are really good. But his structure is pretty strict, in terms of how they train at the gym, and could be a bit intense in a very short visit, but something you'd get accustomed to and work yourself into on a longer visit. My gym, also in Pattaya, Petchrungruang is also good for kids because we have so much experience training young Thai boys from a young age to become stadium fighters and champions. We have a group of 4 that come a bit late, after they've gotten out from school and they train a bit after everyone else. They're about 8 years old and quite small, like 24 kg (52 lbs). We also have some very regular young fighters, 99 lbs is the smallest of those and he's about 15 years old. If you don't get an exact match in size, there's always adjustments to be made in training - my training partners are usually bigger than I am and often the western guys who come to the gym who are less experienced go with our boys who are significantly smaller (like, 20 lbs smaller) and still have a good challenge due to skill and strength of our fighters. The reason I think Petchrungruang is the best gym for kids is that our system, well, Kru Nu's system, is a really good balance of technique, hard work, and also fun. In the afternoons you come, get your shadow and padwork and then it's time for clinching and sparring. You have to submit to the program and it's best if they don't come with their own coach, which usually keeps them peripheral to the process. Or, if the coach is there he's not also coaching them. You just put them in the water, so to speak, with the other fish and let it work. I've seen kids develop crazy fast in this system, even just a week and they're significantly more confident, balanced and improved. They boys at the gym all know each other and are friendly to people coming in and leaving - they totally understand that we're all there to help each other, and they've been helped by those ahead of them, etc.

I love sparring with my coach. It's my favorite. But I think that a lot of folks who have apprehensions about it do so because they fear having to "perform" with the coach far more than they do with another student at the gym. Like, wanting to please your coach at the same time as wanting to respect them and not be a dick is pretty complicated. Kru Nu is significantly bigger than I am, but he's got a bad knee and I worry about hurting him, even though I totally shouldn't. So, I don't kick him the same way I would kick a teammate, which just means I'm thinking way more about that than I am with someone else. But then, the reason I love sparring with Kru Nu more than anyone else is that I don't think I "should" win with him, whereas with a teammate it's way more competitive. Plus, he's got way more control than anyone else I spar, so the trust adds to the fun. Karuhat, too. I could spar him all day, every day.

You don't have to be previously experienced to fight in Thailand, but the promotions you'll fight on will be determined by your abilities in Muay Thai, as determined by wherever you train. And, of course, that gym's connections and availability of shows near you will shape those possibilities/opportunities as well. I've known a handful of people who come to Thailand as day-1 beginners and fight within a month. It's just experience, it's not going to be a big show. But you do have to let your gym know that you want to fight, and then demonstrate your commitment by how you train. I agree with Kevin that you shouldn't leave it to the end. Not only because in Thailand things change very quickly and you might miss your chance altogether, but also because having only one fight at the end of your trip puts too much pressure on the experience. If you plan to have one in the middle and another a bit after that, it takes the pressure off of both. Plus, whatever happens in the first, you can learn from it and apply it to the second. My first fight was a year after I first started training. I was not "prepared" to fight at all. I'd only sparred 2x in my life, a couple of weeks before my actual fight. The way I trained in the US, in Master K's basement, I'd had no real contact - fighting was, in a rational sense, a terrible idea. My teacher didn't want me to, either. But I was "ready" in the sense that I really, really wanted to fight. And that's a difference I think is most important when thinking about any of this "stepping into the ring" process. It's about wanting it. Readiness and Preparedness are not the same thing, and the first is way more important because it drives you. You can do your best to be prepared, which is how you train, but in the end it's not as important as just wanting to fight. If you wait until you're "good," you'll never get in the ring, haha. I've done it 241 times without thinking I'm "good." There's nowhere else in the world that you can train and fight the way you can in Thailand. Nowhere else in the world is fighting PART OF training, the way it is in Thailand. It would be a shame not to experience that, especially since you have a significant chunk of time to be here and train. Some folks only come for a week. A couple of months allows for tons of experience, especially training 2x per day. It's exciting!

Yes, just book a room nearby so that you can get to the gym for a day of training to see how you like it, then decide whether you want to stay. For Banchamek, if you go there, just book one day and night at a time or whatever and decide whether to book a few weeks after that. If you expect to be training WITH Buakaw and Yodsanklai, you will be disappointed. If you're lucky you'll see them walking around, but they're not at these gyms all the time. Yodwicha is at Buakaw's gym now and if he has a fight coming up might be training, but fighters like these aren't training all the time (or even often). You're more likely to see Yodsanklai at Terminal 21 mall across the street from Fairtex than you are in the actual gym... my husband and I see him there when we are eating dinner, hahaha. This is not to dishearten you, you can train anywhere you want. But be realistic about your expectations and be flexible in your plans so that you don't get stuck. If you land, check out the gym and like it, then that's awesome and you will be happy where you are.

I stand out in Thailand. A lot. And for odd reasons. I'm "Thai sized," but because I'm not Thai, I stand out as a particularly small westerner. I'm muscled, tattooed, speak Thai in a way that surprises a lot of the folks who I'm speaking to for the first time, etc. In almost any situation where I'm getting gawked at, smiling and saying "nakmuay" is the only explanation necessary for every single person to burst into a smile and nod with a kind of, "oh, that makes sense." I love it.

There is nothing near Banchamek, as far as I know, so you cannot book accommodation other than what they offer. Fairtex is in Northern Pattaya, so there's other accommodation nearby but you'll just have to find it when you've already arrived. I don't see any Thais training at Banchamek, and as far as I've heard (and these things change all the time), there's almost nobody training there regularly at all. So you might experience a more or less 1-1 training experience with whatever trainer you have, or you might feel like you're in a ghost town. Fairtex is quite busy, has Thais and westerners training all the time. You might get really good work with "the team" or you might be given very little individual attention because of capacity. It's really hard to know how any of that's going to go, but be prepared to figure out what you want to do in any of the possible scenarios.

Wow, you've got a really nice game plan with tons of great reference to work from. Thanks for watching the content so closely! The thing about locks is that you want them to be resting positions, more or less. The frame is to control your opponent, to keep them from locking you, to move them and turn for a knee, but then you move into a lock position to kind of "slow down." Dieselnoi, when he has that horrible double lock and he's wrenching his opponent's heads around, he's resting. Slowing down a bit to catch his own breath while off-balancing his opponent and, through the discomfort and control, keep them from breathing. Yodkhunpon's hold, with the hand on the bicep, that's a waiting game. He's anticipating the knee so that he can elbow or turn. Also a kind of "slowed down" moment. So moving into locks, or between locks, you want to see them as like the stones in a river that you can hop onto for a moment to make a plan. You don't stay there. That's not your end game. It's transitional, although you don't have to move off your spot too fast. So, when you're working on those different locks, shoulders from Satanmuanglek and head from Tanadet's long clinch, work on them by getting into and out of them. Make it a "full range of motion" practice, instead of a drill. To feel the edges, how to move in and through them. I also advise you to take a look at Burklerk and Silapathai, who both love to snuff the clinch because they don't like to be in the clinch. If you're really into learning to clinch, learn how to get out of it, too. Because people will use those tricks against you, but it also allows you to move a lot more than if you only learn the dominant positions. In those two examples, Burklerk is showing how to stop someone from being able to grab you - nearly at all - with the way he locks out the shoulders; this also works great for killing punchers and elbows. And Silapathai's version is slithering out of the way with great turns - Karuhat does this, too - which allows you to change position quickly and get your own lock, if you're actually trying to clinch.

Fighting up a weight class or two vs the Northern Champion Nong Benz Sakchatree, in Chiangrai, Thailand My Post Fight Vlog

I'm never sure how to view this. I see the statistical decline; I'm experiencing the decline in interest here in Thailand, but I'm also in a bubble where I see more women coming here to train, more promotions showing up abroad, more kids, more more. I certainly don't want an artificial swell like Mall Karate in the US and it just dikutes and disappears. But with genuine interest waning IN THAILAND and promotions changing things up so much, I don't know how to read this.

It's the "payak" keyword that's giving you Samart all the time. In the transcription you posted just above you have an unneeded ง before your search, in case you need to cut that out.

My favorite part was the young woman saying you have to show your work. Put it up before you're nice, so others see how you got there. So they think they can learn, too. Totally in my moral code.

Thais definitely don't have a problem with borrowing or using images without citation, so likely this image we all see was used either with the intention of having a photo taken "as Nai Khanomtom" or they just used any nice photo of a handsome man in a mongkon and it stuck.

I can ask around for where he is. If anyone knows and I can reach him I'd be happy to have him in the Library.

Here is a place to suggest krus and legends who would make good additions to film for the Library. Any helpful information on how to contact them, where they are is always appreciated! Just as a matter of practicality anyone in the corridor from Pattaya to Bangkok all the way up to Chiang Mai is reachable. I do plan to take special trips out to Isaan, so krus to the North East also are reachable eventually. But I have no plans to go down to the islands. You can suggest krus down in the islands, but it becomes less realistic. All suggestions welcome though! If you aren't sure if someone is already in the Library, here is an up to date list of everyone so far included

In my experience, the repetition of a strike is mental very quickly after it's physical, and that aspect of it sets up everything else. The anticipation of the strike can make you tense or flinch or miss the fact that it's a misdirection. The fear of it can get you to stay too far away. The emotional doubt of not being able to block it if it keeps landing. These can be strikes that aren't even that hard or physically effective, but emotionally they're killer. My current sparring partner is Southpaw and he lands this lead-hand uppercut, followed by cross, that just gets in my head. He only has to land it once and then I'm just looking for it the rest of the round. He sneaks that uppercut in, it's not even that hard, but it hits pretty clean even through a good guard and it casts doubt on the whole guard. It's interesting. You can always steal that kind of thing from your partners/opponents. What works against you certainly will work for you against others.

This sounds very much like what Rambaa worked with me on at the end of our Patreon session (up now). It's basically a long guard (the arm doesn't cross over, so not Dracula) and the Spike Guard (as I call it, where you block with your elbow). Two ranges, but you block EVERYTHING with just that. Your selections and practice sounds really good, especially with counters and lower body attacks within it.