threeoaks
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Posts posted by threeoaks
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@threeoaks
Thanks very much. I'm really glad that you found it interesting and/or useful.
I couldn't agree more that consent is the key. Of course there are a lot of people who don't want to compete and that is fine. I was trying to explore why it is that some people do want to compete, despite being totally peaceful people in real life, and why the number of people who do want to has increased in recent years.
The word "violence" is pretty loaded. It occurs only twice in my piece, both in connection with "bad toughness", e.g. "The sport not only encourages good toughness, but it also discourages violence (bad toughness)". I never thought of boxing as an example of violence, but rather as being just another sort of sport: a hard sport admittedly, but no more dangerous than rugby. It still surprises me that some people who oppose combat sports nevertheless support rugby. In my experience, rugby is at least as hard as boxing -you have no padding at all and when you get kicked it's with a studded boot, not bare feet. Anyone who thinks it's not 'violent' has obviously never played it.
Apart from questions of equality (which I'm 100 percent for), I'm delighted that women now compete under the same rules as men. If a man defends the use of shin-to-shin kicks, or elbows to the head, he's likely to be accused of liking violence. But women can't be accused of being testosterone-laden brutes. The fact that many women are more than happy to compete under these rules has prevented combat sports being viewed as being nothing more than a display of male machismo.
Despite the comment from Fighting Frog. think that I'll stick to my conclusion
"Contrary to what the spectator might think, you are really loving your opponent when you punch, kick or elbow makes them bleed, and you’d really resent it if they weren’t trying their very best to do the same to you."
Well, I guess you are not loving them during the action. but the hug after the final bell shows the essential truth of that intepretation, in my opinion.
I completely agree with your conclusion.
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Dear Boxing Scientist, I enjoyed your article when it was posted on Emma's great blog, and I enjoyed it again here. i think its very thorough and well argued. Anything I thought of to add, I realized you had already diligently covered. So I will just tell you this story.
I am an artist who makes work about violence, particularly women as active participants (not victims) in violent situations. I did a show a few years ago in a small museum in upstate NY where I live, and I also lectured in front of my work, which featured several Muybridge-style (early photographer who recorded movement) analyses of a mom and her daughters kind of beating the heck out of each other (they are fighters). At the lecture, a woman raised her hand to ask me if I had ever experienced violence (because if I had, I would not make this work was her implication). I told her yes, I had experienced violence. I didn't tell her how, but among various things my brother is a total psychopath who was frequently violent, and I also train and spar regularly in two different martial arts. I mean I was standing there on crutches from sparring what can I say? She would have none of it, and simply repeated her question, several times. I respect that she had a different experience than me, and would never make work or participate in violent situations. But I also require that she respect that my response to violence is to look at it clearly and not shy away, because violence just IS. I don't think she, or a person with her view, will ever understand and that's ok.
Consent is the watchword. If people consent to violence its cool with me, but I also accept that its not for everybody. Thanks for writing that super thoughtful piece. I thought about it a lot.
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"Did anybody have to go through a ton of training, more than other students, before doing a smoker/interclub? How did you deal with the feelings of inadequacy? How did you motivate yourself to be aggressive about making progress? Has anyone seemed to hit a wall in their progress and, if so, how did you overcome that plateau? "
First - ask your coach what exactly you would need to do to fight in a smoker. Find out what weight you would need to be. Don't take the answer personally, don't get hurt or mad (save those feelings for later or the women's only section). Find out exactly how much training you need and do it - make sure your coach knows you are doing the running already (guys always take credit for all their stuff - you should too).
As for me I feel like I am always available as the "Jeezus if that old lady can try it I sure as hell can" lol.
Yes I did and do have to go through way more training before fighting probably because I am not young (50). Last time I sparred with my main Muay Thai coach I did so incredibly poorly that I thought 'that's it; its never going to happen'. My head does all kinds of crazy shit on bad days - i have to ignore it and be willing to learn. My boxing coach helps me a lot with the mental side of things and there are many resources (check 8limbs for one).
Two smokers have gone by since I stated my goal, and also 1 exhibition fight that I'd been invited to do. I am not ready yet, evidently, and then for the exhibition fight there was no woman my size (forget my age I don't care).
Also, and this may not work for you, but I secured permission directly from the person holding the smoker, because I know her and I understand my coach's priority is to build younger fighters for the health of the gym. This is just reality and I do not take it personally.
Yes your gym wants you to fight well and that is ok - it does reflect on them and that also is not personal. It is also just reality.
Here is the thing: like anything, Muay Thai is most beautiful as.. itself. I love the training so much, and I love sparring. I keep having to pluck up the courage to state my intentions clearly; I cannot just state the goal once or twice. I have to tell myself and others that I want to fight, I know its a long shot, but that I want to try.
Despite my fears, I have actually received nothing but total respect for my desire to fight.
So many of my troubles are in my head. I have concrete limitations - my age, size and weight. But what is fighting but overcoming limitations?! Keep running, don't eat sugar or white flour, drop some weight, drink a ton of water, keep stating your intentions.
My coach and I were talking about how much he wants more female fighters in the gym and how frustrated he gets that they won't "just fucking claim their space". Claim your space, is my opinion. I am with you.
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It is great to be in parallel with you in this Dana, and for you to be with us. But that sounds like such a difficult time.
It was terrible but also very much normal, cyclical life as you wrote above. Something to lean into. I like the beach pictures on Insta. Sorry about your client!
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8-14
There is a strong breeze blowing hard across the urban sector we live in, the kind of constant wind that only comes from the beach. It isn't far from us, but we seldom see it. There is a rooster crowing at 4:30 in the afternoon, and another one after him. And then another, staggered in sound and distance. Remote sounds that I love having never been a country boy, and loving the unconscious meaning of what it means to live by their clock, or even near their clock. The streets themselves are narrow, cement alleyways. Everything is cement, as if modern Pattaya looked to seal out its forgotten jungle and bush past that was not long ago, concrete poured like glue over everything. High walls stacked with cinderblock, and the sea breeze blows over all of it, rushing like a weightless river, crashing through our open window on the 4th floor. Sylvie is gluing news clippings into her scrapbook which she hasn't worked on for a very long time. I'm a little astounded at how much she's collected, and this enforced 5 days into inactivity for concussion is probably the longest she will be still in the more than 4 years that we have been here, and that she's be grinding it out in the gym, day after day. Even after broken bones she's in the gym after 2 days. Even when stitches require no sweating, 3 days max. This time it will be five. A time to reflect. To gather our mental forces for what the next 6 months will bring.
I hear the old newspaper creaking and crisping as she turns dried pages, now able to read the Thai that she once had to really strain to get through. I've always felt that Sylvie's Muay Thai has (and will) progressed at the same rate as her Thai. Each of these are mysteriously parallel. For the longest time she was too shy to speak to Thais in Thai, retreated into her shell, just as she was too afraid to spar and clash. But then one day she found herself on the other side of that, in confidence. Now she glues the newspaper into books, looking at words, sentences and paragraphs she feels more comfortable with.
Well shit. Sorry about the concussion, but not sorry about the fight and your writing Kevin. Its beautiful she fought freer after the head-banging dump, and awful but beautiful that she forgets. Crazy to have the two legendary fighters witness it all. Hope your five days passes peaceably and is restorative. Cracks me up that there is scrapbooking going on. I made a great show (in my opinion one of my best) when I was stuck at home with two small children and a dying father; I basically scrapbooked instead of shooting out in the world (collaged). It was not actually appreciated at the time, but has had a long and great afterlife. Good luck.
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Dieseloi. Everything worked out yesterday, Sylvie was able to take 3 privates with 3 all-time legends, all in the space of a handful of hours. Pretty insane, slugging it out in Bangkok traffic, trying to get to various gyms across the sprawling city. But for me, everything was Dieselnoi. Karuhat...Hippy, incredible. Karuhat alone is such a pinnacle fighter, nobody moves or thinks like him. It's ridiculous. But every time I see Dieselnoi (and this is the second time he has trained Sylvie), I'm just slammed by the kind of human being he is. YouTube watchers, and other distant experts like to opine about how he was only dominant because of his height. It's not his height. He would have been what he was if he was 4'6". There is just nothing like him, as a man. How can I describe this?
We've been here 4+ years now, and met so many interesting Muay Thai men. And more than our share of elite former (and current) fighters. A lot of them have vast a generosity of heart, or a sweet boyishness carefully preserved. Some are sad, beat down by the churning forces of Muay Thai economics, or hierarchies that do not always afford the dignities that were won in the ring. Some have unfortunately been reduced by drug use, or pickled and dazed by alcohol. A very rare few have become egregiously bitter and brittle, authoritarians in their imaginary kingdom or fiefdom. All of them, and I do mean all of them, are remarkable men. If you love Muay Thai, you love the men who have lived through Muay Thai, and what Muay Thai has made of them, one way or another. But none of them are like Dieselnoi. None.
When you watch Dieselnoi instruct, moving around the ring, there is an intangible quality about him, something like an electricity. But it is not an electricity of his freedom, his liberty of movement, a sparking of something of grace or memorized muscular accomplishment. It's like an electricity that is actively shocking him. It is stinging him, and he just jolts forward and into the beautiful forms that keep him, with a savageness that comes straight out of that shock. It's how he trained, it's how he fought. His height just made him choose a certain set of strategies and tactics, but this shock, this painful jolt is where it all comes from. It's his engine. And it's like the starter is being turned over and over, while the engine is still running.
I tried to talk to Sylvie about it, because I could see that he wants this same thing in her. Some might call it a certain killer instinct, but it isn't an instinct. I called it ultraviolence yesterday. There is what I have to call a desperation to Dieselnoi's Muay Thai. It isn't the desperation of weakness or of self-preservation. It's the desperation of pain, and also I think of love. I think Muay Thai has hurt Dieselnoi. With uncommon openness he sat on the ring the first time he trained Sylvie and he showed her the scars on his arm where he tried to kill himself, he said out of the absolute pain of not having anyone who would fight him once he became undefeatable. He said when his arm was raised in victory, near that time, he knew that meant no more fights. Desperation. It had to be more than this, but Muay Thai is woven in a certain line of pain. Maybe he told this to Sylvie because she saw the scars on her own arm, from so long ago, when she was a sadder person. Perhaps he is just open about that time in his life, and he would tell anyone now. But the desperation, the incredible pain out of which all of it is born, and beautifully born, is still alive, in fact it is as alive as ever. When he grabs the bag he just rips forward with violence, unspeakable desperate violence. When he grabs Sylvie in the clinch, and starts to move into attack he is shaking her: "Wake up!" Sparking. Let the violence spark violence. Fight at this level. Train at this level.
There are certain things in this world that hurt. And Muay Thai hurts many people, not always in a good way. But when Dieselnoi took that burning ember in his hand, when it was forced into his hand, he squeezed it. And he has never stopped squeezing it. It's like he had no choice. When something is so hot, so hot that it sears the flesh right off, you either have to fling it away right away, or just clench down. That's what his Muay Thai is like to me. Like a man who clenches down on it with all his might. And he keeps it warm and burning right there in his hand.
There is also something about how he trains Sylvie that stuns me. He is not only very generous, open and kind. I can feel a certain communication, a connection between the desperate. There are so many ways to connect to Muay Thai. It is a tremendous art and heritage. It is full culture of becoming, a poem with infinite verses, a home with a thousand doors. But those that connect to it with desperation I think are few. I don't mean the desperation of poverty, or the must of life - these are their own intense road. It's a desperation of pain. For some incredible reason I feel that Dieselnoi sees Sylvie's desperation somehow, the thing beneath all the other very real and largely noble motivations that move her. He sees the desperation and he wants her to harness it, express it, give it form. Wake up.
He said to her: "You are strong. BE strong." Referring to the way she stands in the clinch strong up top, but somehow loose in the rest of her body, not on her toes. Every point of contact for Dieselnoi is a point of engagement. "Do not bring your weapons out" he says. "Wait." And then unleash. And you unleash with relentless wave upon wave of perfect, maddening form, incising the air, shredding the space that is trying to keep you. Even though you waited, you now do so with an urgency. You may never have a moment like this again. Dieselnoi's Muay Thai is a painful, unparalleled expression of an internal assault, arched up and out toward an absolute manifestation. It blooms and blooms like a reddening, spike-ridden flower in the soil of Thailand. I've never met anyone like him, in or out of Muay Thai. He is possessed by his art, by whatever desperation that the love of it engenders. What a man.
It's hard to say any of this, to speak about the electricity that shocks within, the ultraviolence that is put on anything in front of it, without in the end focusing on his huge heart, the way he opens himself up, and extends his stork reach to surround and include. There is something movingly protective about him. I wish there were words for this, but there is such a nurturing sense in which he approaches Sylvie, moving her towards a completion. In Thailand everything is clannish. Families, gyms, promotions, everything is overlapping clans, people bonded together in a protective circle. Dieselnoi is a living circle in himself, somehow. A circle of Muay Thai.
I am so happy to read this. I have watched his fights and loved Dieselnoi the most (from this distance even). I almost suspected myself of liking him for his height (because of mine), but not really. Glad to read this beautiful statement about him and to know my feelings are real.
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7-29
Tomorrow we are taking the day "off" to drive up to Bangkok. I love these drives with Sylvie and the dog. For me they are big breaks from the stultifying time I spend in front of the keyboard. We get to stop at Amazon coffee and get something nice for the road, and then the ribbon of concrete and asphalt just pulls the car forward while morlam music croons with the air-conditioner hum. These hours in the car are a kind of hermetic, sarcophagus, time travel for me. We enter in the car in some part of Thailand, and open the door to find another part of Thailand, something so different from where we were. And this time the planned for day is simply incredible. Sylvie's facing the best fighter in the world at 48 kg and under for the 4th time in 2 weeks time and I felt that we just needed something extra in her training, because this is mental challenge, so we decided that a visit to Dieselnoi (who is not always available) would be a huge injection of inspiration and correction that would really give Sylvie a push. She's been drilling herself in Dieselnoi's unique knee style for the two months that have passed since she first trained with him, and had a few knockouts because of it. Amazingly, Dieselnoi himself through some magical connection seemed to be thinking the same thing, and out of the blue wrote to Sylvie telling her to come and train with him before any fight because training with him would make her strong. This is just insane. To have Sylvie be embraced like this - and he was incredible with her the first time she trained with him - is mind-boggling. While internet voices at times try to have at it with Sylvie, people who actually get in the ring with her, train her, put their arms around her. And for the greatest Muay Khao fighter in history to do this while Sylvie is working endlessly on unlocking the Muay Khao fighting style, is like a blessing from the king, the King of Knees.
So, because trips like this are expensive we try to train (and possibly film) more than one session when we drive. So I'm like: how about Karuhat? Karuhat is Sylvie's Spirit Animal in Muay Thai. She met him through Kaensak when Kaensak was visiting Thailand and cornered for her, bringing Karuhat along. Frankly, we had no idea who he was at all. A living legend, and no idea at all. He's small (only a little larger than Sylvie), has a kind of sweet smile, and a twinkle in his eye like he might like playing practical jokes. There is just something about Karuhat that triggers Sylvie. He has a certain kind of swagger in the ring, a roll of the shoulders, the corner of his mouth upturned in a smirk, his eyes full of light. Sylvie literally wants to BE Karuhat. Like, no joke. She doesn't want to fight like him, or adopt some qualities. She wants to become Karuhat in the ring. When you see her impersonate him, it's hilarious. But beyond that, he somehow unlocks the nak leng quality for her that is essential to the complete Muay Thai masculinity. So, unbelieveably, after she trains with Dieselnoi tomorrow, we are going to drive over to Chatchai's gym and she'll spend an hour or so with Karuhat. She's trained with Karuhat once, and it was just a beautiful hour of instructional sparring, him moving her through his way around the ring, like being taught to dance by following the lead of a master dancer.
And then, out of the blue, two time Lumpinee Champion Hippy Singmanee contacted Sylvie. She had left a message for him about a month ago and somehow he only got it today. He's like: So you want to come and train with me? And Sylvie's like: Yes! So if all goes right...and it seldom does in Thailand, we'll end the day of Holy Mountain training with an hour with Hippy, shooting for Nak Muay Nation.
It's an unspeakable day. And it doesn't matter if it even works out. Training with any one of these masters, tremendous fighters in their day, would be a lifetime honor. That Sylvie aims to be training with both Dieselnoi and Karuhat (first a war machine, then a wizard-trickster) a second time is an unbelieveable opportunity. Neither fighter has a gym. Neither are easy to find. Both are geniuses sui generis. That Hippy becomes a hat trick of greatness is almost too much. But this is what I think. Not only is Sylvie doing things that have never been done before in the ring, by western man or woman, and not only is she relentlessly training in the gym like has never been done before, she by virtue of her growing Thai, the way that Muay Thai legends generally respond to her, and just the luck of how things have worked out (which is more than luck, it's the support that so many have extended), she is regularly coming in touch with an entire history of Muay Thai greatness, many of whom are seldom trained with - across gym spaces, across Thai geography. It used to be, and perhaps it still is the case, that if you trained with a single, illustrious name from Thailand's past, you were blessed. There are hundreds and indeed thousands of very fine instructors in Thailand who did not reach the pinnacles of achievement, and in fact, some of Sylvie's very best and informative teachers are unknown Thai krus of this kind. But, coming in touch with the fighters of this other kind, those that scaled very high, does something to you as a fighter I think. There is a kind of transmission that occurs when fighters meet fighters.
As I'm standing outside of the ring, leaning on the ropes with camera in hand, and smiling heavily at the opportunity given to Sylvie, seeing her move through the ring space with someone who has made that ring so much their home, since childhood, and hawking every single detail, not wanting to miss anything that is being said, or is happening, there is something I just can't see. Like astronomers who can merely "detect" a star or astronomical body because of its gravitational pull, but not see its light, I can just see the slope of this effect between them. They I think see in her something uncommon, something only they can see because of who they are, beyond the fact that she is a woman (but also because of the fact she is a woman). And she can see into them, something only she can see, because of her 600+ rounds in the fight ring, and her grit in the gym. There is a dialogue between them that is so far below words, it is completely inaudible like a low frequency whale call, designed to travel great distances, across oceans. For all that is visible around Sylvie, a near cacophonous stream of videos, updates, blog posts and endless fight numbers, what it is really about are these long-wave invisible, inaudible things. These deeper communications that leave an imprint, not only on her, but on Muay Thai. We are all too close to see it. I certainly am too close. But no person in history has exposed themselves to this much intensive learning in Thailand, the sheer breadth, quality and variety of experiences, in so short a time. Out of love she has pressed herself right up against the bonfire edge and let its heat and light burn into her, to alter her. It really remains to be seen what the transformation is, the kind of fighter she can become (which really means the kind of person she can become). But there is serious communication and transmission going on.
This really is incalculable.
Crazy inspiring.
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I had surgery but that's only cause i was falling down (knee was unstable). I agree with what Sylvie's trainer's experience was - no braces - wobble boards, quads, hamstrings, ankles. All the joints gotta support the knee. Best of luck to you.
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Anecdotal comment - I am currently teaching a 32 year old adult (in art) who cannot hit a bag due to too many concussions in soccer.
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It's hard to overstate how sweet the guy is. It's kind of amazing. And as he's gotten older he's developed some movie star looks, so people are clamoring over the rights to him.
The film also was shot and made by a Thai which seems to, at least to me, give it a different feel than very similar films made by western eyes.
Yeah there are some really clear cliches with the "highlight reels" in the US (that I see anyway). 1. Smoke. wtf. 2. Night jogging. 3. Personal hardship tale is told with completely different tone. Yes personal hardship can make a fighter, but your friend's story is told with such matter of fact grace. Hard to pin down the difference but I love it. 4. Showed him looking quite tired in training, talked about quitting, showed footage of him seemingly being dominated in the course of talking about his losing streak (which sets up the story of his comeback nicely and speaks to the organic narrative nature of Thai fight scoring you wrote about elsewhere). Sorry to go on but I have a horrible ankle sprain and too much time on my hands while I ice & elevate.
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This is just a wonderful short documentary on the Petchrungruang star fighter PTT. It's very hard to encapsulate how sweet and kind a fellow PTT is - hey, he absolutely loves Jaidee - but he has an aura. Sylvie wrote about him and his story that is hinted at in the film - but the film itself in its very simplicity, and in how his words in translation guide the basic themes, I just find very moving. What a cool dude he is. It's only about 8 minutes, give it a watch.
Holy sh*t what a total sweetheart tough guy. Thank you this was beautiful.
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That is absolutely incredible. Organizing an event like that seems like a logistical nightmare, I'd think. But that is way, way out of control. Imagine, walking around with your opponent begging to fight for your championship match. You guys should have gone outside and fought, and filmed it. And awarded yourselves your own belt of some kind to the winner.
So sorry New Thai. Our gym (as I told you in PM) also said "Never Again". That story about walking around with your opponent talking to judges says it all. Just goes to show you how desperate people are to fight in the US if this has been going on for years. This one is supposed to be better (and not incidentally for me has a senior novice class that actually seems to have some fighters in it): http://www.tbasanctioning.org/MTC_Benefits.htm
But again New Thai - just appalling. I have seen kid's karate tournaments where 8 year olds are fighting at midnight (I get from Thailand that seems like no big deal but as a parent I'd kill someone for making my kid wait that long and I am happy to be that parent because privilege yay), and I personally have worked at a tournament a couple times - incredibly confusing stuff but definitely no excuse to waste people's time, money and training like that. I went to a massive fencing tourney on Long Island a few weeks ago which was run incredibly tightly using bracketing software and screens to show what lane your bout was in (my son's bout). There is probably more money in fencing, you don't have weight classes, and there are the Olympics to shoot for (unlike MT), but there were 28 bouts going on at once, with judging on ALL of them. Seems to be a gaping hole in US Muay Thai. I hope Lion Fight does not go down too (the van Soest no-pay thing was a bad sign).
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I had a complete tear and had to have it rebuilt because it was not stable. It would sort of whip me around with no warning; very funny. However one of my coaches trains and fights with no ACL at all and his knee is not unstable. Would be good to know if its a complete or partial tear (simply because that makes the difference for some people). Best of luck to you and so sorry about the injury.
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Very interesting. I got all bent out of shape reading your thoughts yesterday Kevin. I don't like the obvious dig at Sylvie, the bastard. Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I think you laid it all out there everyone. The bottom rope is a sexist tradition, and its a personal choice to go under or over. Going over it, it helps if one takes an imperious (imperialist) tone and possibly have a large loud-mouthed coach behind you. Yeah we need men to confront this stuff sometimes. Ok I am going to lapse into profanity shortly so I will just thank you.
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It's iver 18 or under 18 for WKA, and if you're 35+ then you need a more comprehensive pre-tourney physical to make sure you're okay to compete. As far as I'm aware they only separate the juniors by age for this tournament. One teammate is 37 and he is in the same mix as the 18-20's on our team. I'm under 35 still so definitely part of the mix.
Yeah I saw the physical form. It must have been another context I saw age classes... dangit wish I could remember.
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Awesome. I will go and watch, and try and register next year. I remember reading somewhere about some truly ancient (ok my age) fight classes at a tourney and I thought it was WKA Nationals but now I only see weights and experience levels. Can somebody explain/point me to the elder novice zone? I am working towards a smoker first but I train all the frigging time and really adore sparring (I have a looooonnnnng way to go at it still and no I am not putting it off - as an older athlete I gotta prepare to spend my injuries wisely as I don't want to be put out of the sport permanently - in other words I have to be sure I am somewhat coordinated in regular sparring before I attempt the next step). Anyone? In fact anyone old and novicey in the 145 zone want to just weigh in so we all can arrange to meet/spar whatever? Maybe this is a separate thread but I am tired of administering the old lady sh*t lol...
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1. Be patient.
2. Spar as much as possible.
3. Don't be embarrassed to be a beginner.
4. Do a smoker (this one is underway).
5. Be consistent with basic practice at home.
6. Have fun.
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..."And I think that part of it is that I am okay with being hit. I used to get upset, internally, and just rag on myself for making a "mistake" that caused me to be open for that strike. And that's clearly nonsense.." from Sylvie
Thank you for that. I am stuck in that self-blame nonsense when I get hit. I want a debriefing committee and a ten page analysis with color-coded flow charts. I'm such a jackass. I crunched my wrist throwing a body shot that the person anticipated and turned into, hard. I was all hangdog "its my fault" and JJ goes "What. You were roughhousing?" (whiny mom voice), "OMG you were ROUGHHOUSING?!!". So fucking cheerful.
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Don't know if you've seen this, but this is the classic Bas Rutten video on generating power with the out-turned foot.
The Thai round kick is one of the most deceptively complicated techniques for westerns I think. Sylvie for years had serious trouble with it, despite lots and lots of kicking. It was never fluid or fast. But she eventually kicked herself to a powerful version through tons of work on the bag and pads. But then you see Thai kids kicking fluidly in almost no time. I think a lot of it has to do with the looseness and openness of the hips (culturally), and probably something to do with the Thai squat. But in the end there is no "Thai kick", there are thousands of Thai kicks. I've seen Thais open up and turn their standing foot very wide, sometimes even ending up with it pointed the other way. And I've seen Thais not turn or pivot on the foot at all and get great power.
OMG that kick. Thanks everyone; very interesting.
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I found this old post while looking for kick related posts before opening a new one. So: up!
I was following a running training where there were skipping exercises to learn how to run with your butt. If you look for "how to skip" on youtube you can find lots of football players/coaches showing different variations.
Oh! That's why my boxing trainer makes me skip all the time. Thanks!
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Yeah, that's not quite it. That's a fake knee which has a different spacing and timing. But I'm sure everyone can get the idea. You set up with teeps, and then teep and miss to the side, but land quite deeply to that side of your opponent, and reverse elbow. The key to it all seems to be that the fake allows you to cross the distance really naturally, you kind of "fall" to the side of your opponent. The set up may keep them rigid, the miss may confuse them for a second. A big element of the reverse elbow as Sylvie learned it is getting your lead foot deep enough, to the side (or beyond) your opponent's foot. The teep miss accomplishes this in a great way. Many westerns attempt reverse elbows without any step depth, so they are inaccurate or lose power. Of course this is a once in a great while trick, but I love how sound in principle it is.
Thank you Kevin. Want to try it now. On my kitchen stove. Not a good idea. Tomorrow!
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Evolve put out a video that demonstrates the fake to reverse elbow (among other combos):
Thank you NewThai - enjoyed this very much.
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And MTetris sorry - huge congratulations and big respect for your first fight, and your beautiful humility asking for review and suggestions. Whole thing is very inspiring.
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Off the top of my head there are not only teep location variations (the thighs, the hip points - to interrupt kicks - low in the abdomen, mid stomach, solarplexis, face), but there are all styles of teeps. You can hit with the ball of the foot, the point of the toes (this is painful), the heel. You can teep short and stiff, or lean back and long. You can jump on the teep, or turn the teep into a side kick a little for power. And then there are tons of combinations off of teeps, including a cool one Sylvie recently learned where, after setting with teeps, you "miss the teep" on purpose and fall into a reverse elbow. The teep is its own world.
It's a great way to attack the gas tank, change levels when fighters are too concerned with hands. Sylvie in fact just has added the teep to her comfort zone and it is making a huge difference in the last few fights.
OMG miss the teep and reverse elbow - EVIL. Is there a video of this?
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A writer's journal - Muay Thai, My Wife and Thailand
in Open Topics - men and women - General Muay Thai Discussion and News
Posted
This sums it up for me. I didn't watch until this morning US time. I lost love for Ronda too when she started the gender bashing. I also still see her as a hero who is willing to be an anti-hero, to be a cocky villain (as Ali was) in order to consciously bring massive attention to women's fighting. I love Nunes. The UFC ignoring her was such intense, blatant racial and sexual disrespect it was appalling. Nunes' flawless indifference to those social realities was really beautiful to me - i mean an out lesbian champion in contrast to the gender basher - it was too much not to want her to win. None of this has anything to do with actual fighting, except that the beautiful, relentless 1/2s by Nunes were kind of.. restorative. Simplicity and basics. <3 Thanks for writing this. I don't want to haunt social media and say "yeah but" and try and explain why its sad, this loss. So you did it for me; appreciate it.