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I'm not a fan of spinning shit, but mainly because of how you're describing it as more or less the "hail Mary" of combat. It's rarely executed with balance or timing, although the times when it is... beautiful elbows can come out of it. What I like about the missed-hook-to-back-elbow that both Namkabuan and Arjan Surat have shown me is that it's resonding - quickly - to a miss. It's not spinning for the sake of spinning, it's continuing the movement when you're too deep in to reverse it. The 5 spinning backfists in a single round as an endlessly missed strike in and of itself looks about as badass to me as giving someone your back does.

It's very cool that you are connecting to and researching your family like this. The part of his name that's Jom Samingprai is like the top weretiger (like a werewolf, but a tiger), which is pretty incredible. I have some heavy hitters in my own family (Lord Byron and Bach), but they're not nearly as cool and interesting. I'll see if I can ask Dieselnoi about Sakchai. Doeselnoi isn't old enough to have known him or seen him fight, but he might have heard about him in some way.

There is a really interesting specific history of this in the Spinning Elbow. I remember Arjan Surat teaching Sylvie several years ago and him laughing at the spinning elbow, "just for farang" he was laughing. Westerners love this move. What most don't realize is that this is a counter technique traditionally, used to catch an overly pursuing opponent. That's the usual use. Westerners use it completely "wrong". Now, here is where it gets interesting. Kronphet, who was once an Arjan Surat fighter, had fairly recently lost to the western fighter Gaston in a controversial decision [note: I'mgoing off my memory here and on mobile, I could be wrong]. We'll leave aside that Kronphet was already far removed from his prime, but Gaston is a fighter who completely uses the spinning elbow "wrong" (non traditionally) all fight long. He won that fight using it "wrong" (again, if I recall). Arjan Surat seemed to be laughing at the whole thing. I'm sure it looked ridiculous to him. But, it was somewhat effective against an aged, somewhat out of the circuit Thai. The big reason you can't use it like that is that you can be seriously countered vs elite competition, and in Thai style scoring you can't be off balance after scoring. Under western opponents, and now vs MMA opponents who just don't have the spatial awareness, the aggressive spinning elbow might very well work. Now, fast forward a few years. We filmed with Arjan Surat again and there he is teaching spinning shit to Sylvie. He teaches the spinning back fist that he says Wanchalerm (a fairly contemporary fighter) uses, and he teaches a whirling kick used by the old school legend Rotnarong (once Arjan's fighter) used. But, these are "moment" techniques, that fit within a context. They are used as counters or off of missed. I think that what happens is that they get taken out of their richer context, are used "wrong" against lesser opponent skill pools, or under different rule sets, and become popularized. And add Internet. It's cool in a way because it can create international enthusiasm for Thai techniques. And Thais themselves have moved away from many "fancy" techniques because of trying to be sure-footed with the gamblers, making stadium Muay Thai more and more vanilla. The misunderstanding and perhaps misuse of these techniques leads in a way toward their preservation, but we have to fight to retain some of the original fabric that created them, the deeper context of their success when used against elite competition.

found the posts - his father was also a stadium champ circa 1970s, so maybe his father knew of your uncle or has more info. hopefully you can connect!

Pat, thanks for posting. This is such a great story. Speaks to me as a Thai-american, also with nak muay in the family (who also met an untimely death that isn't talked about at all). That image with the reaper is so amazing, would love to see it as a print or on a shirt or something. Sylvie, I remember you posting about another Thai-american fighter (Chanon Kuldraree?) who also found a relative in that book of greatest nak muay - maybe he or his family have some further knowledge of Sakpayak?

The author of the other book mentioned that my uncle had lived or was guided by a person that was his friend named Kim Mang while he stayed in Bangkok. Not sure right now if he was a fighter or a manager. The author Alex Tsui that I've been conversing with said when he goes back to Thailand this year, he's gonna try and find Kim Mang. As you know, anyone today that was alive when sakchai was would have to be in their late 60's-100+. I was told by Ajarn Rex a muay thai official out here that there is a Kru Kim that's old enough out here too in California thats an official for the muay thai events as well that might know my uncle. I just don't know yet what his last name is. I remember him but he's supper old and haven't seen him at the fights lately and might have retired. My Kru, Kru Walter at Sityodtong LA tagged him in one of my posts on facebook and also said he might know of sakchai, but kru kim hasn't responded. My guess is he doesn't go online much. I haven't asked my kru yet how to go about getting kru Kim's attention outside of Facebook. I'm a little shy about this kind of behavior. In the newspaper article I posted it mentions Sakchai's girlfriend's name. Sunee PoomSluay. She would be 87 today I think. She was a little older than Sakchai when they were dating. He would be 85 today. It would be amazing if she is alive today.

You are completely right! His teaching style is almost entirely through sparring, and correction in sparring. He described to Sylvie how when he was in the gym as a fighter he would always be working on moves or deceptions that would catch his sparring partners off guard. He thought to himself that if he could fool someone who knew him well he could easily fool or mistime an opponent. It led to him developing one of the most unique fighting styles of the Golden Age. When he is teaching sylvie in all those sessions he is still doing this. We see him regularly invent throws, for instance, that we've never seen before, ever. And as he's showing the throw if you pay attention you'll see that he's working on it, inventing it right there before your eyes, just as he would do as a fighter. Now, this is the really interesting thing as to the topic. We have to admit that the entire ecosystem that produced these coaches, and all these fighters, it's gone, like the Amazon rain forest might one day be gone, but new ways of teaching and creating techniques are growing now. Fighters are communication their experiences. Rambaa just the other day was literally teaching Sylvie Karuhat's switching style, impersonating Karuhat, asking her if she knew who Karuhat was (???!), something he had stolen and made his own from videos. And...he's teaching this stuff to the Thai boys who are dreaming of becoming stadium fighters! So there is creativity!

I had my first sparring tournament a little over a week ago and lost. She was a good bit smaller than me so I’ve taken a bit of ribbing from my coaches. I’m not sure if I feel shame but I do feel a little bit of frustration and maybe some embarrassment for not using the tools I know I have. Im chalking it up to first time jitters and hoping next time my nerves calm down a bit. I’ve only been training for a year so I guess I can hardly expect my first experience with someone outside my gym to be a stellar performance. Lol I’m any case, I’m telling myself that many people who train Muay Thai or other combat sports never step in to any sort of competition. I won a different kind of battle by being incredibly nervous and doing it anyway. Good on you for doing the same. The hardest one is behind you and now you know what to expect a bit more.

Hi and thanks for your reply and encourageing words! (And also sorry for the enormous font of my text. At least that’s what it looks like on my phone. Not sure how that happened. Don’t mean to be screaming at you:)) Two days later I’ve calmed down. I’ve been agonising and hiding and trying to put it in perspective. Last night I managed to watch the fight and it wasn’t at all bad. Well it wasn’t what I know I can do in training and I can se how my waiting for openings looks like I’m passive etc etc but it wasn’t at all in relation to the shame I felt. She did not humiliate me. I was just too passive at times. As you say ones feelings about something doesn’t make that something true. And my feelings said that I hadn’t landed anything, that going blank had leaved me with absolutely no skills or weapons what so ever. But seeing the fight showed that that wasn’t true. And I can almost feel a bit proud of fighting my first fight. I read your reply Sunday, still so sore I couldn’t really take it to heart. Reading it again today it all rings true. My hard work hasn’t been in vain and this doesn’t mean I can’t ever control myself. The whole situation also makes me think of something you’ve written about that failures aren’t necessarily your true self. Which it feels like when they happen. Thank you!! So, good news! I can go back to my gym haha!