Question about scoring/attack strategy

[LengLeng]

Hey a question. How would you handle a shorter, strong opponent with a great kick game (low/body/head kicks, knows how to attack) but not as strong when it comes to using arms/hands/knees, when you yourself is not a great kicker? 

Feel free to mansplain me .

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

3 hours ago, LengLeng said:

Hey a question. How would you handle a shorter, strong opponent with a great kick game (low/body/head kicks, knows how to attack) but not as strong when it comes to using arms/hands/knees, when you yourself is not a great kicker? 

The biggest question in a match up like this is whether you have a big clinch game advantage or not. If you do, build your attack around that. If it's unknown, or only a slight advantage you can't count on it as the solution. It also sounds like you are fighting a Thai, in Thailand (which makes a difference).

If you are fighting an accomplished Thai female fighter it's generally a big mistake to try and out kick them. And, counter intuitively, it's also a mistake to try to out punch them (because they will just wait on you, and out score you by counter kicking). Everything is about moving them off their post - posting is when they get to set up in their stance and kick on their own timing. The best weapon against posting is the teep. Teep, teep and more teep (if you are comfortable with your teep - if you aren't, don't build an attack around a weapon you "might" use). Any time you see them settle in, teep. Also, as a shorter opponent she will be susceptible to elbows. Without knowing the particulars, a good long range weapon like teeping, and a good short range weapon like elbows makes a formidable combination.

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

2 hours ago, LengLeng said:

a great kick game (low/body/head kicks, knows how to attack)

If you can count on low kicks, especially early, the Low Kick Destroyer that Sylvie talks about here, can be a fight changer:

 

There are not many things that you can just learn quickly, but this kind of check of the low kick can feel pretty natural to do. Any fighter who has low kick in their arsenal has a good chance of starting out the early rounds with low kicks. It's an intimidation technique. A single check like this can really change the fight. It will not only discourage low kicks, it might even alter how they kick and even check for the rest of the fight.

[Tyler Byers]

I agree with Kevin on all of this, especially teeping and checking the low kicks early.

Edit: Something else I thought about today after watching our training videos with General Tunwakom is using the shove to the neck/upper chest when you opponent goes to knee or kick. @Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu can probably find the video of this (I'm not sure where to look), but I could swear that Sylvie did a video on this specific technique.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Tyler Byers

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

1 hour ago, Tyler Byers said:

can probably find the video of this (I'm not sure where to look), but I could swear that Sylvie did a video on this specific technique.

This is something Namkabuan teaches, and in fact was a master of. And the Rambaa Patreon session also has a version of it. Both of those fighters use it offensively. But, the next Patreon session, up in a few days, with Kru Gai, teaches this precisely, used to thwart knee and other attacks. Even as a shorter person it works. I"m not sure where Sylvie has covered it in a technique vlog, but I"m sure that she's done so.

[Tyler Byers]

Ooooh I may have actually seen it in one of the Namsaknoi videos from when he was at the gym in Koh Samui. It's a fairly common technique though, shouldn't be too difficult to find an example. 

[LengLeng]

Thanks @Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu @Tyler Byers for all these pointers and advice. I'm in absorption mode here hehe. And the low kick destroyer is brilliant how could I have forgotten about it? 

Much appreciated.

 

 

[Xestaro]

I love that Lowkick-destroyer "Block"... well actually more "Counter-Attack".

 

It SO reminds me of Kali! We were taught to do something similar where while taking the low-kick in a kind of check you'd drop your knee on the kicking legs ankle. If you don't hit precisely the kick was still blocked, if you did.... lets just say a perfectly executed one with low-intensity execution in training (no padding) can fucking hurt and I guess at force it could actually break the ankle or at least give your opponent a moment of very insecure stance which gives you an opportunity to counter-attack.

 

I've actually non-intentionally used a version of the lowkick-destroyer in sparring when I cross-blocked and hit the guy's shin right with the big, hard part of bone right below the knee. Not what you want to do to your sparring partners all the time but I can attest it is very effective!

[Tyler Byers]

14 hours ago, Xestaro said:

It SO reminds me of Kali!

Hahaha this is another thing that the General is teaching us that seems to have an overlap with Kali. He has us using the cross block and either hitting their shin, knee, or inner thigh.

[Xestaro]

3 hours ago, Tyler Byers said:

Hahaha this is another thing that the General is teaching us that seems to have an overlap with Kali. He has us using the cross block and either hitting their shin, knee, or inner thigh.

The variant I described above is actually same side "block" but as I wrote elsewhere: if it works, it can't be "wrong"

Its a manifestation of a basic principle of Kali as an art: They say its neither offensive nor defensive, but "counter-offensive". You don't really "block" in the traditional sense of the word but rather react to an attack with a direct counter-attack that's designed to at least neutralize the attack but ideally also causes damage to your opponent in the process.

[LengLeng]

On 7/14/2019 at 9:18 PM, LengLeng said:

Thanks @Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu @Tyler Byers for all these pointers and advice. I'm in absorption mode here hehe. And the low kick destroyer is brilliant how could I have forgotten about it? 

Much appreciated.

 

 

Update. Low kick destroyer was a complete fail for me. It was raining low kicks, but I didnt have enough time before the fight to practice to have the destroyer movement "in my body" enough to use it. I hate low-kicks. I think they such an ugly, low-class movement and during fight I wanted to tell opponent 'you never be a great fighter if low-kicks all you got'. And at that moment she hooked me badly all turned white for a second. Joke on me .

So, me and my left multicolored thigh look forward to learn how to block these efficiently. But I find it so hard to find the right angle of the knee? Especially when opponent shorter?

[Tyler Byers]

14 hours ago, LengLeng said:

So, me and my left multicolored thigh look forward to learn how to block these efficiently. But I find it so hard to find the right angle of the knee? Especially when opponent shorter?

Cross checking might be easier (this gives you much more surface area to work with instead of only the point of the knee), especially with a shorter opponent. Just make sure your guard is tight and you balance is good. I'm in the same boat as you, I get low kicked a lot 

[LengLeng]

3 hours ago, Tyler Byers said:

Cross checking might be easier (this gives you much more surface area to work with instead of only the point of the knee), especially with a shorter opponent. Just make sure your guard is tight and you balance is good. I'm in the same boat as you, I get low kicked a lot 

Yeah that is good advice, that movement comes a bit more natural for me anyways.

Either way, back to learning lab...

[Xestaro]

As another option (surely this won't work EVERY time but its another thing to probably practice and add to the arsenal) I've seen my trainer advise to just take a step back on a low kick (bringing your left leg back if you're in orthodox stance) since they can't kick what isn't there anymore of course.

Also a "counter-offensive" option like the lowkick destroyer seems to work well when you use the large bony part of your upper shin right below the knee. Gives you some more surface to work with.

[Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu]

Teep always works nicely against "short range" and short stature opponents. I'm a shorty and I feckin' hate the teep. It also sets up for almost anything else, like the jab does.

But, honestly your approach to this opponent in your fight was very good anyway. She landed some heavy punches that could have been complicated by a teep, but a good guard is just as good.

[LengLeng]

On 8/1/2019 at 4:02 PM, Xestaro said:

As another option (surely this won't work EVERY time but its another thing to probably practice and add to the arsenal) I've seen my trainer advise to just take a step back on a low kick (bringing your left leg back if you're in orthodox stance) since they can't kick what isn't there anymore of course.

I like this because it makes your opponent look a bit stupid.

[LengLeng]

3 hours ago, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Teep always works nicely against "short range" and short stature opponents. I'm a shorty and I feckin' hate the teep. It also sets up for almost anything else, like the jab does.

But, honestly your approach to this opponent in your fight was very good anyway. She landed some heavy punches that could have been complicated by a teep, but a good guard is just as good.

Oh yes, teep is probably best counter, but I feel it takes a lot of experience and practice and balance to react like this if the opponent is very fast. But I guess being tall I really would benefit from focused teep practising. Funnily enough my first session back at the gym I had to do a never ending teep session.

I heard your comment in your fight video that apparently you were teeped out of breath, but I really saw nothing of it didn't seem to bother you.

And thanks a lot . I've been picked apart by one of my trainers for the way I reacted to lowkicks (and everything else) and although a good thing for someone to care, it's hard.