Jump to content

Muay Lertrit Diaries - Coming to Thailand To Train in Traditional Military Muay Thai


Recommended Posts

Hi Tim 😀 Don't get too anxious, just make it on that flight. You've got a battle buddy here now! I'm gonna be out there training with you and I've been living in Bangkok off and on for the last 4 years so. If you need anything at all please feel free to message me here, LINE (tylerbyers1 is my ID), or on Facebook and we'll get you sorted out. I went out last weekend and trained with the General during the seniors class, it was a total blast! Everyone there is super friendly and helpful. I had a bunch of older Thai folks coming around correcting my form as the General expects students to teach everything they have been learning. It's a wonderful philosophy for creating a good learning environment and I think we are going to have a lot of fun. I've taken the next month off school so I've got a lot of free time on my hands. Let me know where you are going to be staying and I can do some prep work to make sure you've got everything you need (i.e. mass travel info, where to get groceries/food, cheap massage, etc.).

I look forward to meeting you soon, have a safe flight.

- Tyler

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/24/2019 at 12:20 PM, AndyMaBobs said:

I've been waiting for this! Looking forward to reading it. Feel free to delete this post if it's only meant for your updates!

Thank you for your support and enthusiasm, hope I meet your expectations!

  • Like 2
  • Heart 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure you will do fine. I'm also really looking forward to following your progress with this, and like Kevin said, look at it like a conversation rather than writing a post to update people on your progress. 

You would be surprised how much you could Yammer on in a conversation if it was actually typed out 🙂

There is no right or wrong thing to say, and you will have a whole community of people behind you who believe in your ability 100% 

Most of all, have fun with it. It will definitely be an experience you will look back on with fond memories 🙂

  • Like 1
  • Nak Muay 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/25/2019 at 1:33 PM, guyver4 said:

I'm sure you will do fine. I'm also really looking forward to following your progress with this, and like Kevin said, look at it like a conversation rather than writing a post to update people on your progress. 

You would be surprised how much you could Yammer on in a conversation if it was actually typed out 🙂

There is no right or wrong thing to say, and you will have a whole community of people behind you who believe in your ability 100% 

Most of all, have fun with it. It will definitely be an experience you will look back on with fond memories 🙂

Thank you so much for the encouragement! Please keep it coming!

  • Like 2
  • Gamma 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

We visited the General and Timothy today to drop off a tripod and a phone for hotspotting (with the help of our patrons). A photo taken of the General demonstrating, with Timothy looking on:

General Tunkawom - Timothy Looking On.jpg

The general looking as focused and animated as ever. Can't wait for this series 🙂

  • Like 4
  • Heart 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. Breath

2. Use the waist

3. Transfer weight 

 

The General says this is what he must get me to do before I go or if I am going to teach effectively. These task are deceptively difficult, especially the breathing. It’s not that these are new concepts to me; it’s the way in which the General ask you to use and do them. There is a beautiful subtlety to the way he does them which is obviously the product of how long he as been doing it.

 

1. Breathing - I’m very aware of my breathing. I thought I did it quite well. There are breathing exercises I preform with some regularity and I when I roll jiujitsu I take a lot of pride in using my breath effetely. However, the General’s specific breathing strategy is proving to be tricky. The general emphasizes his breaths at almost opposite points then I’m used to. They’re shorter and the exhales come on the recoil of the punch - rather than at the impact of the strike.

 

2. Use the waist - If anything the General asks me to do that seems “new”, it’s the way he uses his waist. I’ve understood and even taught my own students the importance of turning the hips during a kick or punch, but I’ve always started this movement from the feet. The feet push through the ground first and the hips turn second. Rather, the General says the power comes from the waist (and the transfer of weight). During our lesson today, it was noted that often it’s the legs or the arms which turn the waist, which is not good according to the General. Rather the waist moves first, and then the arms and legs will follow. 

 

3. Transfer weight - This is by far the most beautiful thing the General does. There is an effortless transfer in his body weight as he strikes. The only other shift in body weight I can compare it to, is ballet. I took ballet a few years ago, and it’s by far one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. There is no jerk or dramatic shift as the General moves. The only indication is a slight lift on his heals. It’s not a push off the ground like I’m used to. It’s a shift of his weight from one leg to the other. 

 

The General likes to say, “it’s the same, but different”. He usually prefaces with asking me if I know what he showing me. This is my least favorite question, in any art. I don’t think I KNOW anything. I’ve seen a lot, and I’ve practiced a lot, but knowing is something different. So when the General ask me if I know something, I try to respond with something like, “similar”. The General will smile and say, “it’s the same, but different”. This phrase is bigger than just our training, it actually encompasses my outlook on this trip. I’ve been to a few places. All over California, a tour through Europe, and now Bangkok of course. There are elements to each city that are always similar. There is crime, there are high rises, there is good food and bad; and so on and so forth. But each city has it’s own style, its thing which makes it unique. Bangkok is the same as any other city I’ve been to, BUT absolutely different (in the best possible way). Lertrit is the martial manifestation of Bangkok, if you will. It can look just like sport Muay Thai, but it is very different. There are subtleties which go almost unnoticed if they aren’t pointed out. But they make the world of difference.

Thank you, thank you, thank you to everyone offering their support and encouragement!

tm

  • Like 5
  • The Greatest 1
  • Respect 2
  • Gamma 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of the 4-5 times I've watched Sylvie's session with General Tunwakum, 2 things become especially clear in the Lertrit style. Breathing, and how you use your hips. I did notice the Generals feet the last couple of times I watched, and it's exactly like Sylvie's catchphrase... "So beautiful".

At the same time, you can see how quintessential these points are in its effectiveness. I.e. every attack is 100% economical, and is fundamentally developed to end a fight.

Can't wait to see more of this. Keep up the hard work 👍

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tim Macias said:

2. Use the waist - If anything the General asks me to do that seems “new”, it’s the way he uses his waist. I’ve understood and even taught my own students the importance of turning the hips during a kick or punch, but I’ve always started this movement from the feet. The feet push through the ground first and the hips turn second. Rather, the General says the power comes from the waist (and the transfer of weight). During our lesson today, it was noted that often it’s the legs or the arms which turn the waist, which is not good according to the General. Rather the waist moves first, and then the arms and legs will follow. 

Incredible. It must be the feeling he has.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Tim Macias said:

This is my least favorite question, in any art. I don’t think I KNOW anything. I’ve seen a lot, and I’ve practiced a lot, but knowing is something different.

Love this thought chain.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Tim Macias said:

1. Breath

2. Use the waist

3. Transfer weight 

Thank you, thank you, thank you to everyone offering their support and encouragement!

tm

I love your write up. Something that I see when I watch his waist is how his knees bend. They don't bend like a soccer or tennis player, they don't even bend like any other martial arts that I've seen, but they bend like a Golf swing. Keep in mind, I've never played golf in my life and I'm not truly adroit at watching it, but the twist, to me, looks like golf. 

The first thing I noted when walking into the room yesterday and sitting behind you was your breathing. I smiled and pointed it out to the General, I said, "he remembers to breathe... not like me." Even being able to hear it is more "right" than you can imagine. But your observation of the subtle differences means you do, actually, know what he's talking about more than you might give yourself credit for. I reckon his question to you about whether you know what he's talking about is actually if you know where to look, or what aspect he's picking on. I watch my trainer Kru Nu show someone a punch and they stare at his fist. It makes no sense. They're not looking anywhere near where the important part is. 

His balance is just like he's from another planet. He never, ever draws outside the lines, so to speak. He never breaks his frame. He never leans or bends. I thought Sagat had pretty incredible ability for maximum efficiency out of minimum movement... but the General even complained that Sagat couldn't do his uppercut right. Hahahaha.

  • Like 6
  • Respect 2
  • Heart 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:

They don't bend like a soccer or tennis player, they don't even bend like any other martial arts that I've seen, but they bend like a Golf swing.

That's actually exactly how he described it to us lol. I've really been trying to pay attention to the direction and lines that his knees go in as he moves, the economy of movement as a whole is incredible. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:

the twist, to me, looks like golf. 

Just like Tyler said, he talks about golf often. He uses the same analogy when talking about weight transfer too. Yesterday he was evening using Tiger Woods as an example.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first batch of documenting videos are in from Timothy who is running the GoPro during his sessions. This is just going to be raw video, so that over time the methods and techniques of early teaching are at least recorded. You can look at his field notes for insight into what the General is looking for, and what Timothy is focusing on. Feel free to shoot Timothy questions in the thread too:

Day 1:

 

 

 

 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Day 2:

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you to all our patrons that are helping make this archival project possible. If you aren't a patron yet you can easily become one: patreon.com/sylviemuay

If you have plans to be in Bangkok you can also train with the General, and help in your own way to preserve Muay Lertrit. You can arrange to train with the General through the World Muaythai Alliance Association.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Tim. Great work with this! I've only managed to watch the day one clips so far but wanted to comment on an observation I made in the tail end of day1b and through day1c while it was fresh in my memory.

With the punch you were working on, you are engaging your shoulder in the offset which is retracting from the movement of the hips. When you watch it back you will see it, but the moment your shoulder engages, your elbow comes out and away from your hips.

Another good example of this type of movement, if you have access to the Patreon Muay Thai Library, is Sylvie's session with Sagat, in particular when he is demonstrating his uppercut to the stomach. Your elbow stays almost flush to your hip and just tracks it, and it's the momentum of the hip which propels the punch out, which barely engages the deltoid and the bicep, and allows the tricep to accelerate the punch. Maybe try just tracking your hip with your elbow, to give yourself a feel for the movement, then allow the strike to come after?

Also, the footwork, and change in guard you were doing through the first video was beautiful. I noticed you getting frustrated at times, but just give it time, it's something that will come with practice, and probably from having to un-learn old habits.

Awesome start to the project. Looking forward to more.

Edited by guyver4
Missed a bit
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Most Recent Topics

  • Latest Comments

    • Translation:  (Continued from the previous edition (page?) … However, before being matched against Phadejsuk in the Royal Boxing program for His Majesty [Rama IX], The two had faced each other once before [in 1979]. At that time, a foreign boxer had already been booked to face Narongnoi, and the fight would happen regardless of who wins the fight between Narongnoi and Phadejsuk. … That foreign boxer was Toshio Fujiwara, a Japanese boxer who became a Muay Thai champion, the first foreign champion. He took the title from Monsawan Lukchiangmai in Tokyo, then he came to Thailand to defend the title against Sripae Kiatsompop and lost in a way that many Thai viewers saw that he shouldn’t have lost(?). Fujiwara therefore tried to prove himself again with any famous Nak Muay available. Mr. Montree Mongkolsawat, a promoter at Rajadamnern Stadium, decided to have Narongnoi Kiatbandit defeat the reckless Fujiwara on February 6, the following month. It was good then that Narongnoi had lost to Phadejsuk as it made him closer in form to the Japanese boxer. If he had beaten Phadejsuk, it would have been a lopsided matchup. The news of the clash between Narongnoi and Toshio Fujiawara, the great Samurai from Japan had been spread heavily through the media without any embellishments. The fight was naturally popular as the hit/punch(?) of that spirited Samurai made the hearts of Thai people itch(?). Is the first foreign Champion as skilled as they say? It was still up to debate as Fujiwara had defeated “The Golden Leg” Pudpadnoi Worawut by points beautifully at Lumpinee Stadium in 1978, and before that, he had already defeated Prayut Sittibunlert and knocked out Sripae Kaitsompop in Japan, so he became a hero that Japanese people admired, receiving compliments from fans one after another(?). Thus the fight became more than just about skills. It was (advertised as?) a battle between nations by the organizing team, consisting of promoter Montree Mongkolsawat, Somchai Sriwattanachai representing the “Daily Times(?),” Mahapet of “Muay Thai” magazine, and Palad of “Boxing” magazine were also present, and they named the show in a very cool(?) way, “The Battle of the Fierce Samurai.” Even “The Smiling Tiger of Ayothaya” Narongnoi who was never afraid or shaken was affected by the advertising, confessing to the media that he felt a little scared, unlike usual when he faced other Thai boxers like himself. “Why are you scared?” “Maybe because the opponent is a foreigner. There’s news that he is very talented.”  “So you’re afraid that if you lose to him in our own home, it will give us a bad name and be very shameful for you.” “Yes! But my heart knows that I can’t lose because I am fighting in my own country. And in any case, he probably won’t/wouldn’t be better than our boxers. “But he has defeated many of our famous boxers such as Pudpadnoi-Prayut-Sripae. To tell the truth, he must be considered a top boxer in our country.” “Yes, I know” Narongnoi admitted, “but Pudpadnoi could not be considered to be in fresh form as he had been declining for many years and could only defeat Wangprai Rotchanasongkram the fight before(?). [Fujiwara] fought Prayut and Sripae in Japan. Once they stepped on stage there, they were already at a huge disadvantage. I trained especially well for this fight, so if I lose to Fujiwara, my name will be gone(?) as well.” “The Battle of the Fierce Samurai” was postponed from February 6 to February 12, but Thai boxing fans were still very excited about this matchup, wanting to see with their own eyes how good the spirited Japanese boxer was, and wanted to see Narongnoi declare the dignity(?) of Thai boxers decisively with a neck kick, or fold the Japanese fighter with a knee. Win in a way that will make Thai people feel satisfied.   [Photo description] Narongnoi Kiatbandit used his strength to attack Fujiwara, a fake Muay Thai fighter until Fujiwara lost on points.   Fujiwara flew to Bangkok 2-3 days before the fight. The organizers of the show had prepared an open workout for him at Rajadamnern Stadium for advertising purposes. Many press reporters and boxing fans crowded together to see Fujiwara. Their annoyance increased as all he did for three rounds was punch the air [shadowboxing], jump rope, and warm up with physical exercises. After finishing the first three rounds, he was asked to put on gloves and do two rounds of sparring with a person who was already dressed and waiting. However, Fujiwara’s doctor told him that it was unnecessary. This time he had come to defeat a Thai boxer, not to perform for the show. Photographers shook their heads and carried their empty cameras back to their printing houses, one after another. In addition to measuring the prestige of the two nations, the fight between Narongnoi and Fujiwara was also wagered on, with a budget of 1 million baht. Narongnoi was at 3-2 in odds, and someone had prepared money to bet on the Japanese underdog, almost a million baht. Only “Hia Lao” Klaew Thanikul, who had just entered the boxing world, would bet 500,000 baht alone, and the Japanese side would only bet a few hundred thousand. The only person who truly bet on Narongnoi’s side was Chu Chiap Te-Chabanjerd or Kwang Joker, the leader of the “Joker” group, supported by Sgt. Chai Phongsupa. The others could not bet because the Japanese side ran out of money to bet on. Narongnoi’s disadvantage would be that it would be the first time that he will fight at 134 lbs. However, he would have youth and strength on his side, as well as having trained Muay Thai in Thailand(?). Narongnoi was only 22 years old, while Fujiwara was already 33. His 33 years did not seem to be a concern in terms of strength as he had trained very well and never knew the word “exhaustion.” Fujiwara had an abundance of endurance, to the extent that the Japanese could trust him completely on this issue. Yes [krap], when the day came, Rajadamnern Stadium was packed with boxing fans of all ages. The entrance fee was set at 100-200 and 400 baht per person, and the total raised was over 900,000 baht, less than ten thousand baht short of reaching the million baht mark. This means that the number of viewers was more than double that of the special events (200-400 baht per person) nowadays. Even though it was more exciting than any other fight in the past, Narongnoi Kiatbandit, the 130 lbs champion, was able to completely extinguish Toshio Fujiwara by throwing his left leg to the ribs every now and then. This made “the Samurai” unable to turn the odds(?) in time because Narongnoi would always stifle him. Fujiwara could only rely on his physical fitness and endurance to stand and receive various strikes until his back and shoulders were red with kick marks. After 5 rounds, he lost by a landslide, with no chance to fight back at all. Most of the audience was pleased, but there were some who complained that Narongnoi should have won by knockout, which was not easy as Fujiwara had already established that he was the best in Tokyo. If it were any other Japanese boxer, it would be certain that he would not have survived. “Am BangOr” wrote in the “Circle of Thoughts" column(?) of the boxing newspaper at that time: “Then the truth came out to show that Toshio Fujiwara was not really that good at Muay Thai. He was beaten by Narongnoi Kiatbandit who only used his left leg. Fujiwara was frozen, bouncing back and forth with the force of his leg, and he lost by a landslide... The only thing worth admiring about this Sun Warrior is his endurance and excellent durability. For someone at the age of 33 like him to be able to stand and take Narongnoi's kicks like that, he must be considered quite strong. Why, then, did other Thai boxers lose to him? Monsawan-Sriprae-Pudpadnoi-Worawut have all helped strengthen this Japanese boxer. The answer is that their readiness was not enough(?). This victory of Narongnoi is considered to be the erasing of the old beliefs that were stuck in the hearts of Thais who were afraid that Japan would become the master of Thai boxing. It will probably be a long time and it will be difficult as long as Thai boxers can maintain our identity. But we cannot be complacent. If we are arrogant and think that the Japanese will not give up, we Thais may be hurt again because they will not give up. If we make a mistake today, he will have to find a way to make up for it tomorrow."
    • Sylvie wrote a really cool article about why sparring escalates, even when people are trying to go light. A gem from 10 years ago. https://8limbsus.com/blog/brain-science-sparring-gets-control-neurology-muay-thai
  • The Latest From Open Topics Forum

    • 3½ years late of a reply haha. I'm in Phuket and have went to quite a few physios. The best so far is Meaw at OptimiseFit at the Blue Tree in north Phuket. She doesn't dry needle me as another Dr. has here but all my muscle tension came back soon so it's a waste of money.
    • Don't know if this brand offers shin guards but might as well check them out. I bought a few pairs of shorts from them a while ago and was genuinely impressed. https://siamkickfight.com/
    • Hi all, I have paid a deposit to a gym in Pai near Chiang Mai to train at in January. I am now concerned about the pollution levels at that time of year because of the burning season. Can you recommend a location that is likely to have safer air quality for training in January? I would like to avoid Bangkok and Phuket, if possible. Thank you!
    • Hi, this might be out of the normal topic, but I thought you all might be interested in a book-- Children of the Neon Bamboo-- that has a really cool Martial Arts instructor character who set up an early Muy Thai gym south of Miami in the 1980s. He's a really cool character who drives the plot, and there historically accurate allusions to 1980s martial arts culture. However, the main thrust is more about nostalgia and friendships.    Can we do links? Childrenoftheneonbamboo.com Children of the Neon Bamboo: B. Glynn Kimmey: 9798988054115: Amazon.com: Movies & TV      
    • Davince Resolve is a great place to start. 
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      1.3k
    • Total Posts
      11k
×
×
  • Create New...