Tyler Byers
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Posts
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Posts posted by Tyler Byers
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1 hour ago, Tim Macias said:
While there are time when my San Soo habits are not helpful in Lertrit
I'm watching the day 6 videos and wishing someone would beat the Western boxing out of me lol. Things that were great for that style are totally tripping me up with Muay Lertrit. We'll get there though, we'll get there.
I feel like a lot came out of our discussions today, it was nice to be able to break things down a bit on a conceptual level. Kind of feeling our way around in the dark a bit. Hoping this will lead to some more "ah hah" moments next week during training. Wooooo go me for finally figuring out that elbow block at around 39:30ish lol. Only took me 8 days
Now I just gotta add back in the details like tucking my chin so I can put it to use.
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7 minutes ago, Coach James Poidog said:
I actually teach a system of punch set ups to low kicks each with the idea that the punches move the weight of the person firmly onto the leg you want to kick. The punches can even be more like hard slaps just for that effect.
I really like this philosophy. It's amazing how much more damage you can do by getting someone's weight loaded or getting them off balance. Good stuff!
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31 minutes ago, Victoria Pitt said:
I am trying to picture what you are describing. I am a southpaw. Are you Orthadox and you switch to south and do this? That's the only way its making sense to me.
Yeah I am orthodox then switch to southpaw as I step through. It works pretty well because it initially looks as if you are simply taking a deep step to the right to circle out (sometimes I'll slap the lead hand down and pass it to my left just prior to the step through as well) then you blast them with the kick. Its basically just some misdirection, it doesn't need to be that hard. It totally lawnchairs people though and is funny as hell to watch.
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1 hour ago, Oliver said:
Super common though, happens all the time to guys and girls, of all weights. You get your fights cancelled all the time at the last minute, or get told to fight the night before when something opens up.
This is very true. My first fight got canceled 4-5 times and then I got one the next evening. Fight arrangements are generally a total shit show for everyone out here lol.
1 hour ago, Victoria Pitt said:I'm also going to try to get some kickboxing fights here in the US. I think its harder because of my age HERE than where I was in Thailand. There are a lot of reasons why I didn't want to do that in the US but that way I might have some video that I would actually be interesting to put on a card.
Another option here might just be to straight up lie about your fight experience lol. Just tell them you have like 5-10 fights and go with it. That might help motivate a trainer or gym to find you a fight as it is typically a little more work for them to find someone in your weight class who is very inexperienced or brand new. I don't know if that is good or bad advice lol, but it's an idea!
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2 hours ago, Victoria Pitt said:
Up elbow from catching and dropping a teep.
Do you pull the heel towards you when you do this? I always thought that was such a cool small detail lol. I like pretty much anything that sets people off balance like that though.
For me my favorite technique is probably a switch stance liver kick on orthodox fighters while on the move (stepping outside their lead foot). I think it is the trapping aspect of it that I enjoy the most. It just completely switches their open side as they start to move with you and leaves them basically defenseless as you see them have an "oh shit" moment before they get blasted in the liver lol. Good times, good times indeed
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So here is my theory on the breathing thing... I think it doesn't matter if you are inhaling or exhaling as a defensive mechanism, either way you are essentially holding your breath on the pause (either inward or outward) to contract your core and protect your organs.
Where I think things differ with the sharp inhale just prior to being struck is that it allows you to keep your core steady like a barrel full of water which helps with balance upon contact. Think about how power-lifters inhale and hold just prior to doing a heavy squat. It helps protect your core and keeps everything contracted. Also according to them it allows you to lift more weight because of that stability or in our scenario exert more force on the counter strike which is really what you are waiting for. This style heavily relies on defensive counter striking and ideally you aren't doing five three minute rounds, so long term endurance isn't really that big of an issue from a conceptual standpoint.
It really is a case of same same but different. I think it is dependent on the situation. I'm actually finding that a lot of this training is taking me back to my old style (which I am quite happy about), and to be honest I didn't really have any endurance issues with it back then even though it was constant movement and counter attacking. I think your body just gets used to it all and becomes more efficient at using energy.
I kind of think of the inhale vs exhale thing in a similar manner to aerobic vs anaerobic training. They are just different. For example you wouldn't train all aerobic activity if you were planning on swimming competitively. You would still likely be in great shape, but you are going to get tired more quickly because your breathing rhythm has to change while swimming and your body isn't used to it.
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Can you go into a little more detail regarding bad experiences/losing money? You don't have to name gyms or people, I'm just trying to understand the situation more clearly. Like are you paying for training somewhere wanting to fight and they aren't finding you fights? What is your experience level and how old are you? What area do you want to fight in and what weight do you fight at? Are you living in Thailand or just coming to train and fight when you can?
I ask so many questions because sometimes it is just difficult to find matchups for certain people and the trainers or gym will simply give up without telling you (for a variety of reasons). I for example struggle to make 70 kg and only have 3 fights. This makes it difficult to find Thais for me to fight because a lot the ones over 70 kg are typically older and much more experienced than I am since they have basically retired and gotten fat lol. However my trainers are very adamant about me only fighting Thais and won't even bother looking for other foreigners for me to fight. A lot of promoters also see my age and just brush me off without even looking at training videos because by Thai standards I am ancient.
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3 hours ago, LengLeng said:
Jack Kruse takes it one step further though
. Interesting stuff.
I didn't have a chance to read through it earlier, but I'll try and give it a shot if I have some time this weekend. I can always use more info on anything regarding sleep or depression. My sleep has gotten a lot better over the last decade, but I still only make it about 60-75 min at a time without waking up. Lol I've mostly given up at this point, but it would be nice to see what true recovery sleep would feel like.
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34 minutes ago, Steff said:
Since it is not centrally located the prices are lower and you will find cheap accommodation around.
What are they charging for a month of training? And what area is it in?
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40 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
Put your foot here, someone says. Then another kru will tell you to put it in another place. Swing your arm this way. No swing it that way.
Hahaha this makes things so nutty in a Thai gym. Things can get real awkward real fast when you've got two trainers with opposing styles. Everything you do becomes wrong and everyone involved gets frustrated. Something I really like about the General is that he is big on talking about everything. While he definitely believes how he does things is the "correct" way, we always have discussion and bring different stuff to the table. Its really fun to have discourse about the training and helps break things down a bit easier.
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I can only add what I have heard on the Thai side of things... and a lot of them seem to feel that Dieselnoi simply had an unfair (and insurmountable) advantage due to his frame. He wasn't just slightly longer/taller than others, he was MUCH longer and taller. I'd be curious to know his reach advantage in fights, but its got to be anywhere from 8-12 inches depending on the opponent. They definitely do not seem to give credit his "engine" and drive to fight. I think they simply dismiss him from the talk because of that. Samart on the other hand was in much more "competitive" fights and that created much more of that story type narrative that gamblers and those born on the countryside relish in. He became a folk hero of sorts.
I kind of think of it in a pro-wrestling frame of reference simply due to the story telling aspect of it and how information traveled during that time period. In one guy you have this complete destroyer who everyone pretty much "knows" is going to walk through his opponents. In the other you have a seemingly normal human who the crowd relates to. It's kind of like having a heel vs babyface matchup. I think the fact that Samart went on to do movies and sing cemented that feeling of being someone who Thais could relate to (you know how big singing is here).
Personally, I love me some Dieselnoi. I've only been around him in short bursts, but he is really fun to be around. His energy is infectious!
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On 7/1/2019 at 10:49 PM, Snack Payback said:
Ajarn Peng. Senior coach at Sor Thanikul during the golden age.
Vicky said this is his son, it's probably the best way to get in contact with him as I don't think Ajarn Peng has his own FB page.
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1 hour ago, LengLeng said:
For melatonin regulation Dr Jack Kruse (bit of an asshole on social media but also a genius) has interesting ideas on letting sunlight hit the retina in morning
The VA uses this to treat melatonin regulation and also depression so there probably has been some clinical research done on this. They make special lamps for indoor use too in case you don't have access to regular sunlight. I used to have one but couldn't really tell you if I noticed a difference or not. I was also taking 10,000 IBU of Vitamin D a day and handfuls of SSRIs/Antipsychotics so my brain was pretty much soup at that point lol.
I like the Wim Hoff techniques. Anecdotal but I feel like they help make you stronger mentally if you are using them in conjunction with freezing cold water. Forcing yourself to overcome uncomfortable situations can mentally take you a long way.
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3 hours ago, LengLeng said:
But I'm also constantly being told by trainers and fellow students to not get a thai massage more than 2/monthly. Because of toxins being released and so on.
Hahaha what? My view is that this is stupid advice lol. That's just my opinion though. If you are drinking lots of water, moving constantly, and sweating a lot then all that stuff should get flushed right out of your system anyway. Not to mention if you are getting massage done regularly, you won't get a build up of toxins in the first place. I will say that I think more than once a week may provide marginal results for physical recovery, but if its relaxing and you can afford it then why not? My body is a complete trainwreck, regular massage is the only thing that keeps it all together. (Edit: After reading Sylvie's post, I thought I should mention that I usually get 1 hour of foot massage, and then I do an hour Thai massage after that if my body is really banged up. I never get oil massage for a few different reasons. Typically its just my legs that get tight from Muay Thai and running though, if I take care of my feet/legs then everything else stays more relaxed.)
I have mixed feelings on sauna being beneficial (dry sauna/steam room anyway, pools of water are different), but personally I like it. For me that helps release a bit of stress, and a little extra sweat never hurt anybody. I try and stretch in the steam room and then rub ice all over my body afterwards. Virgin Active has a pretty sweet ice room that I like to jump into between sauna sessions (I do hot for 10 min, then ice room for 5-10 min).
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46 minutes ago, OldBones said:
But, looking at things a layer deeper, WHY do you think IFMA scoring has taken the approach it has as opposed to just educating and spreading current (or even closer to Golden Age--fighting hard from 1st round to 5th round) scoring practices?
Really looking forward to Kevin's answer on this as I know his will be much more thought out and accurate than mine. Imo though, the 10 point must system is just easier to score and gives fans a clear cut/easier way to look at things. Even guys/gals who have fought out here for long periods of time don't understand the scoring because narrative is subjective when one fighter doesn't completely dominate the other. I suspect this is why Thais bet in between rounds and sometimes change the fighter they bet on as they fight progresses.
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^^^ Lol I'm not sure why, but this whole post cracked me up Oliver. Honestly I'm not entirely sure I even understood your point, but the whole thing was very entertaining to me. I think I understand what you were saying though and I like all the coffee references!
1 hour ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:narrative vs non-narrative (10 point must) put them in different universes
This is such a massive difference that so many from the West can't seem to wrap their heads around. I actually wish more fights in all combat sports were judged using narrative or complete fight scoring. 10 point must totally changes how fighters approach things and it allows people to "steal" rounds.
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Cool, thanks for all the info! I'll definitely try and make it out to the IFMA tournament and check things out if I have time. It looks like they have a live stream to so maybe I can watch online if I can't actually make it down there.
I'm surprised that there seems to be quite a lot of fighters from Arizona. Its a bit of a chicken or the egg kind of question, but I wonder if it is more popular because of the USMTO tournament, or if the tournament is popular because they have a good amount of competitive fighters.
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35 minutes ago, OldBones said:
Also really like watching Jonathan Haggerty fight.
I just started watching him recently on the ONE shows. Seems to have some really good fight IQ. How about Damien Trainor? Is he fairly well known throughout the UK? I love his fight with Tawachai Budsadee.
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Hahaha I may not know what I mean by "organizations" either
I think I have seen random stuff/facebook posts by IFMA, USMTO, IKF, WMC, USMF, etc. So many acronyms, its hard to keep everything straight. Are these mostly regional or do they all have real representation across the US? Do they only work with specific promotions, or do they all just compete wherever they can?
I'm really hoping they will include Muay Thai as an official Olympic sport, but I'm also terrified they are going to dumb it down and basically make it unrecognizable.
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8 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
then exhales on the recoil
I really like the way Tim put this, it is absolutely perfect. Recoil is the right word in so many ways. Each strike is like the bolt of a rifle sliding back as gas (breath) is expelled and then slamming forward again as another round is chambered.
In regards to comparisons between Kung Fu and Muay Lertrit, I'd be curious to know what @Tim Macias thinks about your comment regarding breathing in the Muay Lertrit and the style being more defensive at its core. For example, is Kung Fu more aggressive in its roots due to the opposite breathing pattern, or as you mentioned, did the traditional martial arts simply move away from that as they were removed from combat settings? I also have no experience with traditional martial arts so I would like to know what Tim thinks. I also wonder if the breathing is simply rooted in a response to a sudden attack, similar to how we inhale sharply when startled or are about to be in a car accident?
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I don't know anything about IFMA or any of the other organizations actually. I'd be interested in learning more though. How many organizations are there in the US? Are some of them considered more "legitimate" than others? It just seems like there are a ton of small organizations these days and anyone can start one to try to prop up their gym or lend credibility to themselves as a coach. That might be a necessity though due to state laws/regulations making it difficult to have one governing body for the sport as a whole. I'm not sure about other states, but Washington state has some really weird regulations for both Muay Thai/Kickboxing and MMA.
Is anyone going to IFMA Worlds? It would be cool to try and meet up if any of you are in BKK.
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8 hours ago, guyver4 said:
From what I've seen though, it's that "generating power from the hips" and the elbow tracking the hips which each person on the video struggled with.
For me the difficult part of the straight punch is to not turning/corkscrewing my hand as I punch, not lifting my shoulders/chest, and also to not rotate my back foot when punching with the rear hand. Usually I would do about a 1/4 turn going from guard to full extension, but he wants us to have zero rotation on the hand/arm. None. And the fist needs to still end up in a traditional boxing position instead of what you would see in Karate or Taekwando with the thumb facing the ceiling. Everything comes from the hips so that there is literally a perfectly straight (and therefore efficient) movement. If done correctly the hips will move the fist into the correct position but also causes the elbow to flare a bit (remember it isn't stadium style so we aren't worried about losing on points due to being mid-kicked; he's also got some nasty counters for this that we just haven't got into yet). We're also stopping at the target (which from a scientific standpoint should cause a ripple effect as the energy disperses on the target and will cause a flash KO) and purposely not fully extending our arms to avoid potential arm locks. These small change ends up changing the angle of everything else and how weight transfers. On top of that, we've got to consider defensive positioning at the same time. It's MUCH harder than it sounds lol. I feel like I am reworking everything from day one like I've never thrown a punch before. And then also being asked to transition and do it from the opposite stance all in one streamlined movement. The amount of small details is seriously overwhelming but also really cool when you can see how effective it is. I spent a ton of time both in the gym and at home just looking at the movement of my fist while slowly trying to weight transfer and turn my waist.
Overall I guess what I am trying to say is that what we are doing/showing in these videos isn't really "complete" yet as he doesn't really break things down into individual techniques as we would in Western boxing or Muay Thai (i.e. a jab, a hook, a teep, etc.) where you work off a specific technique or stance and then feel things out while trading attacks. It is more a complete system with a few fundamentals that flows one movement directly into another without a specific stance and must be perfected to maintain balance and power. With stadium Muay Thai you use strikes to pick apart your opponent, but typically you would throw at max 4-6 strikes in one combination. This style just keeps going. It is complete and utter domination of your opponent regardless of your current stance and situation. The first day he asked us "if you were fighting five opponents right now, who would you disable or kill first and who would you finish last?", and he was quite serious about that. He wanted us to walk him through the mental process of how that fight would play out and how we would survive that kind of encounter. The style is built around making sure you are never knocked to the ground and to injure your opponent with every movement whether defensive or offensive. 90% of it seems to be geared towards having a super strong defensive base to maintain balance as well as a clear sight picture of the fight, and then counterattacking whatever area is open (T-line of the face, sternum, groin, armpits, organs, joints, etc.). As a combat vet who has actually used hand to hand combat during hundreds of raids (I did over 600 raids my last deployment alone) I am actually really impressed with how well thought out the entire system is and how lethal its potential is. I'm really looking forward to perfecting the small stuff so it all feels smooth and can we worked into larger chains of attack. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast
so much of this is reminiscent of learning to shoot from a supported base, then moving to individual 25m flat range, then to individual KD range, then to team movement drills, then to CQB/shoot houses, then to full scenarios with sim rounds, and eventually culminating in actual combat operations.
Hahaha sorry that was a bit of a memory dump, I hope it makes sense. I did a bunch of mid-sentence editing so some of it may be incoherent. I enjoy this kind of discourse though, I wish we had time to do some commentary over the top of the video. It would be fun to explain what is going on mentally during some of this training so we can point out some of the small stuff we are working on or that he explains to us.
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54 minutes ago, Coach James Poidog said:
Kru Dam from Sitmonchai also has a similar way of throwing and teaching his low kick.
I forgot about Kru Dam, he's one of the best in the business. Hahaha I actually specifically avoided fighting Pond last year at Max because I didn't want to get leg kicked to death again (I got leg kicked to death about 4 months prior to that and still have scar tissue leftover in my leg from last February lol). That whole camp has nasty leg kicks thanks to Kru Dam!
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18 hours ago, guyver4 said:
it's something that will come with practice, and probably from having to un-learn old habits.
After re-watching the videos a couple of times I cannot say enough how much of this we are doing and how much of it doesn't really shine through in the videos! There are so many tiny adjustments that we are both having to make that are completely contrary to things we have been training for years. Literally everything from balance points, wrist alignment, hand rotation, weight transfer/foot rotation, rhythm of breathing, stopping points of a strike, and more are completely reversed from everything I have been taught over the last few years. I spent nearly the entire first day just trying to walk in a straight line correctly while breathing lol. It is a lot to focus on at one time. I've been training out here for a few years and never had to focus on so many aspects at one time. On top of that there is a bit of the "trying to drink from a fire-hose" effect going on just from the amount of technique we have been shown (at least for me personally) since General Tunkawom is trying to show Tim as much as possible in three weeks. The General's aide has come in a few times to watch and has mentioned how quickly General Tunkawom is moving us through different techniques. It is insanely mentally exhausting even though it is a total blast!
Kevin has talked a few times about "hacking" Muay Thai, and to be honest and completely shameless, I'm pretty good at that lol. This is totally different though. There is no way to hack this, it is SOOOO much more precise than any of the stadium fighting styles. Exact and measured repetition of the fundamentals is the only way to make progress. That is part of the mentality of the style though. If you overextend or get off balance in the ring, you risk losing by KO. If you do that in actual hand to hand combat which this style is designed for, you are going home in a bag. Everything must be perfect EVERY time.
Also, just for future, I don't mind if anyone comments on my technique (maybe PM me so we'll keep things from getting clusterfucked on the main forum). I like to analyze that kind of stuff. Fifty percent chance that I will either listen objectively or I'll tell you to shut your face lol. Either way though, I'll definitely take a look
oftentimes people catch stuff that I don't and maybe it will help nail down some of the finer points of this style through discussion.
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What is Your Favorite Technique?
in Muay Thai Technique, Training and Fighting Questions
Posted
This is something I feel more people should be teaching in general. I haven't been training that long, but haven't seen hardly any coaches talking about fight theory or strategy (what queues to look for when an opponent is about to use a specific technique, or how to manage fighters with different styles) with their fighters the way I think they should. It's largely left to the fighter to kind of figure out alone later down the road.