Tyler Byers
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Posts posted by Tyler Byers
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1 hour ago, Oliver said:
Seriously never thought about it that way, it's probably from growing up taking ridiculously crammed trains and busses every day where you have your face rammed into a 3 day unshowered armpit for 45 mins straight. Kinda becomes normal....and maybe it shouldn't be.
You see this with a lot of people in Asia as well (especially those from China). I think you are 100% right, its just cultural differences for the most part. It definitely took me a long time to get used to the trains in BKK!
1 hour ago, Oliver said:And the face slap with the Thai pad thing? Yeah it was thrown full throttle and without warning. But you just gotta accept it's your own fault, carry on, and show no facial reaction of being shocked or annoyed. Cuz if you do, then you're really fucked, and he'll keep pushing that button.
I think for fighters this is totally fine. This is probably something that is cultural as well. Similar to how Europeans spar notoriously hard vs gyms in other places. Hahaha my old Thai trainer used to just randomly teep me around the house (I lived with him and his family), gotta have your defense up at all times! It actually became a fun game between us. There is definitely some good that can come from this kind of pressured training, but for people who only train casually or for fitness it's too much imo. Fighters gotta get used to it though!
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4 hours ago, Oliver said:
Nah, you wouldn't react like that in a yoga studio. They have that whole hippy vibe. Ya know, peace & love, universal oneness, candles, pan pipe music, white people with dreadlocks. It's immediately obvious to you that you're not in any danger.
Actually wait, whats the difference between getting touched by a yoga teacher and your trainer in the gym slapping you hard in the face with a thai pad if you drop your guard too much?
Obvious to you perhaps, but I can assure you that not everyone who has been through traumatic situations is in control of their bodies at all times. For guys just coming out of war zones or people who were abused badly as children, women who have been raped, etc. they still see danger everywhere. It's more about never letting something like that happen to you again and you remain on high alert no matter how safe a situation seems. I've nearly hit several people with elbows simply for walking up behind me when not expecting it. It's not something I have control of, my body moves and reacts on its own.
I know what you are saying about over thinking things, but imo simply asking is the respectful thing to do. A yoga teacher will likely announce it at the beginning of class, and then again just before they adjust you. It's not about the act of touching per se, but about the consent to do so. As for a trainer in a gym, I personally would be pretty shocked if a trainer hit a student hard without any warning. Usually you give the student several verbal warnings, then maybe a quick swat or tap but even that is at a speed that is slow enough so they understand what is happening. In Thailand things are a little different due to the language and cultural barriers, but that is also something you accept as you come into that environment.
2 hours ago, Jeremy Stewart said:I'll take that on board, Tyler. I always ask my female students. Never once have I thought to ask the males.
I think a lot of times people just assume guys are alright with it. This might be a personal thing, but I'd rather get hit hard with a pad then have someone place their hands on me to turn my shoulders/hips more. While placing your hands on someone may seem like a "softer" touch, it makes me deeply uncomfortable. Due to some childhood stuff, being hit is normal and being touched/hugged took me about 20 years to get used to. In my experience a lot of the guys who end up at combat sports gyms are products of abuse or guys with PTSD of some sort (whether from childhood or military service). Not all of them obviously, especially as combat sports are becoming more main stream, but you just don't know people's background. Plus it sets a good example for the younger kids (male and female) and teaches them appropriate behavior for their future so they know what is ok or not ok in case their parents aren't teaching them at home.
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4 hours ago, Oliver said:
That's super normal in yoga though. Its legit, not meant to be creepy or molesty at all.
I'm not familiar with yoga, but that's actually a perfect example of why it is better to ask. For example, if I went into a yoga studio for the first time I wouldn't realize that to be a normal thing. And if someone I didn't know just started touching me they might lose a hand lol. They may have had only good intentions (I legitimately believe that most people do), but me being very protective about my body due to some traumatic events is going to cause me to react in a way that will likely be violent in some form. It's simply a trigger that I struggle to control. The entire situation can be avoided by simply asking "Do you mind if I touch you to adjust your form/technique?".
Edit: Also Oliver, it is a good idea to ask like this if you are a trainer/gym owner for your own legal reasons. Sexual assault claims (whether true or not) will usually destroy a business. By asking first you decrease liability as well as establish a healthy relationship with your students.
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2 hours ago, dtrick924 said:
Kai Ting Chuang vs. Janet Todd (ONE Championship: Masters of Destiny) - (2019.07.12)
That 3rd round was fire. Straight gun slingin'.
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Bro. *dramatic pause* My brain is currently made of french toast and soup. What did he do to us tonight lol? I want to play with that spinning elbow more, I felt like I was starting to get the weight transfer of that one towards the end. Once I have that down I want to try and start mixing in other elbows. I actually like that step in elbow to the floating rib too. I didn't get a chance to try that one, but I think I understand how it works. On an unrelated note, that ninja jump foot work is going to be the death of me. I am terrible jumping off my left side. Those jumping kicks made me feel like I need to go do single leg squats for the next 3 months to get more than a 2 inch vertical. Good stuff, but I'm brain dead.
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I try not to give unsolicited advice, but I am certain I have been guilty of it at some point. I usually only suggest things or mention things if I am drilling or sparring with someone. For me this is an appropriate setting because we are supposed to be helping each other to get better. Just walking up to someone you don't know and spot correcting them is weird lol.
Also, never under any circumstances should they touch your body to make a correction without asking first. I don't care if you are male, female, or whatever, don't touch people without asking first. I personally don't like people touching me even if I do know them, and if you do it without knowing me you are likely to get a bad reaction out of me. I think most people have good intentions with all this, but you never know how the other person is going to take it or what kind of past personal issues they may have.
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2 hours ago, SPACEDOODLE said:
Hooks are proving a little troublesome for me, as I do not really know what to look out for in terms of correct/incorrect technique. I just know some hooks "feel" good while others "feel" bad.
I like to stop at certain places to check my form. The main place I stop and look while doing hooks is as my body is torqued to one side just prior to throwing the hook. This allows me to make sure my weight is centered and balanced, my shoulder is over my opposite knee (if throwing a right hook, the left shoulder should be directly over and inline with the right knee). I do this both facing the mirror and from a side perspective to make sure I'm not leaning backwards or forwards. I also check my guard to make sure that my defense is solid (shoulder blocking my chin on one side, glove on the other) as many people get caught as they are beginning to throw the hook. I do the whole sequence very slowly and progressively move quicker to generate more power. I also stop at the end of the hook to again recheck balance and make sure I haven't over-extended (right shoulder should not be past the left knee at this point). There should be a ton of boxing videos that will break this down for you. I'm sure they can add more than what I can.
Edit: Something I forgot to add is that it is really important to use your waist/hips to create power. I see a lot of people trying to "push" their hooks using hip on the same side (if throwing a right hook as described above, they will drive that right hip forward). I don't know that this is "wrong" but I've found it really helpful to instead "pull" using my opposite (left hip in this scenario). Makes my hooks much more snappy and keeps me balanced. Just something to try and see if it works for you.
2 hours ago, SPACEDOODLE said:I noticed I would "break the frame" on knees and teeps with the mirror. But, I am not entirely sure how to correct these except trying to over-compensate with my hips and leaning back more on the teeps. Not entirely sure how to address the body leaning I observed in the mirror. Maybe it is simple conscious movement and making sure I do not lean one way or another while teeping or throwing knees?
Would you mind posting some video of this? It sounds like you are simply off balance, but I'd like to see it before I put my foot in my mouth with ill-advice lol.
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1 hour ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
I know you've tried a million things, so just another one to throw out there. This is for shoulder injury, and has really worked for Sylvie, but if its theory is correct it might help across all neck and back issues (the idea is that we are built to hang and swing): Hanging Theory.
The good thing about it is that it is only a couple of minutes a day and is pretty basic (no learning curve).
Other things we've tried is blue light filter glasses on sundown (it's a bitch to remember to do this) to get the sleep cycle started, and Sylvie's got some very good sleep mask thing that kept being advertised on Facebook, locking out light. Sorry if these were discussed above, just popping into the discussion.
This is actually one of the few things I have done that does really help. I do it every time I go to Virgin Active for as long as my grip strength allows it. I try to do it at home too in kind of a modified position (I'll use the sides of a door frame and kind of sit my hips down). The decompression in general really helps. I'd like to get something for my neck too, but this definitely helps both my shoulders and mid back a lot. Great resource!
Edit: Forgot to add something else that I have found really helps is using a pole or broom stick to do rotations around my torso and also from back to front. This guys has a pretty good video here:
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On 7/10/2019 at 5:49 PM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
By feint do you mean the twists and recoveries?
We haven't been shown any feints yet but I think we aren't even near that point. We are still working on the basic techniques and not even really drilling or sparring yet. I think when you are that close, it is mostly slight/nuanced movement based feinting (acting like are going to pivot one direction, then going another), or feinting when you are an outside in attempt to keep them guessing so you can get back into that mid-range. I'm having a hard time putting into words what I am thinking, hahaha very likely I am still figuring it out myself. I'm kind of getting a double dose of learning/re-learning as I realize how many of the ideals behind Muay Lertit are similar to things I was taught at Toddy's.
I'm guessing these similarities are all in the Muay Korat base, but I'm not certain exactly what techniques are classified in that style other than the use of a lot of elbows and knees. The Muay Korat terminology is pretty recent for me so I'm still connecting things if that makes sense? I have the feeling a lot of this stuff will begin to click a lot more if I can start sparring and trying to work it in more of a live setting, that's just kind of how my brain works. I've definitely had the most trouble with the "traditional" martial arts movements, though that makes sense considering I have never done anything other than Thai boxing (General Tunwakom is pretty insistent that Thai boxing is very different than Muay Thai).
We've just had a ton of information thrown at us very quickly on top of trying to change existing styles and movements. Realistically it's only been a couple of weeks so there is a LOOOOONNNGG way to go still
Hahaha honestly I feel like Tim is getting it worse than I am, I at least get told not to worry about stuff since I have a bunch of time to learn.
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16 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
What is really interesting about Muay Lertrit, as far as I've been able to witness, is that the entire fighting style is organized around invading the no-mans-land between fighters, and fighting there.
This is actually what I like best about it so far, and is yet another comparison to my old style. I used to live in that mid-range because I found it makes people really uncomfortable and leaves them trying to choose between moving or attacking. As the pressuring fighter (or at least the one trying to eat/maintain that space) you can still see quite well and therefore counter really well since you aren't actually leading the dance. Feinting/hiding your strikes is really important here I think, it increases the sense of panic in your opponent and makes them open up even more.
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2 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
Why would you think that his Muay Lertrit would score lightly in Thailand's sport Muay Thai?
Mostly worried about how mid-kicks will be viewed. I'm worried that judges won't see the block for what it is and instead look at it as taking the kick on the forearms as opposed to being blocked by the elbow. Also the style isn't the prettiest thing in the world (compared to femeur), but hopefully the sheer dominance of it will shine through. I think if I can get some real sparring time in that will give me a better picture of everything.
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Interesting. I wonder if I'll be one of the first Western's to take this style into the ring then. My plan is to try and use parts of Muay Lertit (the footwork, waist rotation, and some of the defense) and put it together with the bit of Thai boxing I have learned. I want to keep it mostly defensive as that is the base of the style and try to counter attack instead of being offensive. I probably won't kick hardly at all unless it is one of these short front kicks the General has taught us, or the heel thrust. Hahaha should be interesting as I am pretty much guaranteed to lose on points if I can't get a stoppage. Maybe I'll see what they think about doing a Kard Cheuk fight instead of a Thai boxing match. That might allows me to represent the style a bit better (hahaha they are worried how it will look if I lose and since I'm 35 there is already a lot of pushback).
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4 hours ago, Jeremy Stewart said:
I truly don't believe there's much that could be done to improve my sleep unless the aches and pains lessen.
I actually think this is kind of my main issue as well. I've got all sort of stuff wrong with two different sections of my back and then also my neck. Staying in shape definitely helps though. If I haven't worked out in a while (which is where I am at right now), it seems to be worse and harder to sleep for any real length of time.
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19 minutes ago, Tim Macias said:
You can see all of the these basics come together in the Buffalo killing strike.
He showed me this the first weekend I went up there and I only today felt like I was kind of getting it. I'm still a little bit uncertain if there should be a bit of a whip motion/feeling to it or not. While I was playing around on the bag I was really trying to focus on the tension in my shoulder (he has mentioned a few times that it is easy to hurt your shoulder doing that punch). I seemed to get the most power and least amount of tension when the punch was a little whippy, but I'm just not sure if that's what he wants from it or not. I still feel strange in general about striking with the back of my hand instead of my knuckles. It might be necessary though to maintain speed/power if you aren't shifting weight the way we would traditionally with Western boxing or Muay Thai. I dunno, it's just a weird one to me lol. That other downward strike had me totally lost. Not only have I never done anything like that before, but it also feels very against my natural style. I'm curious if as he shows more there will be a bit of lightbulb that goes off similar to when we were confused about the heel kick today.
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Kali has a different style of teaching this stuff though. We used to train stuff in "drills" a whole lot. A drill in Kali is a sequence of moves you practice with a partner where the whole sequence ends in the same position you started in so you can just continue on.
I have the feeling we'll get to drills at some point. It kind of seems like they are still trying to figure out how to teach this on an individual level as well as being under a bit of a time crunch to show Tim as much as possible before he leaves.
I'm curious, as someone who has studied both Kali and Muay Thai, do you feel that the non-weapon portions of Kali are indeed practical? Also would you consider it be practical in a ring setting?
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Have any video? Personally I'd walk forward while trying to catch the kick then hit them with an overhand shot (punch or elbow if you can reach) or repeatedly dump them on their ass to make them think twice about kicking. You can also use your hands to feint then teep aggressively to knock them off their base every time they go to kick.
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8 hours ago, Sifu81 said:
Hi Sylvie , I couldnt find the topic in the roundtable , so going to ask again can you tell me how you felt / reacted the first time you got cut in a fight from a elbow? I was cut from an elbow training last week it was kind of unsettling because of the amount of blood , I wondered to myself when I fight would I have the stomach to keep fighting ! Is this something that just comes with time and training ? I follow you on patreon , learning alot from your videos and commentary ,love training getting ready for my first burner at my school ! Keep up the great work and fights thnaks
Hi Sifu, I am curious to hear how others reacted to their first cut as well. I've only gotten two cuts and to be honest I didn't even notice them during the fight. They weren't very large though so I can imagine a cut that is bleeding profusely would possibly be more shocking.
I can only give you some thoughts based on my limited experience, but typically you aren't losing nearly as much blood as you think you are. If it's not in your eyes I wouldn't worry about it too much (easier said than done I know
). Blood leaving your body usually has a large percentage of water so it is relatively thin in terms of viscosity. You've got around 5L in your body, and can safely lose up to 0.5L. Imagine dumping an entire 16oz/450ml bottle of water onto a tile floor and how far that will spread. There is a natural reaction of fear for most people when they start bleeding but in reality during a fight you aren't going to lose that much. I would be much more worried about the size, depth, and location of the cut.
Hopefully this won't ninja your thread, but I'm also wondering what others think about rubbing open cuts in your opponents face during a clinch. Obviously this is going to be situationally dependent but I would think you could rub anything on the crown of your head into your opponents eyes to try and hinder their vision a bit.
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12 hours ago, Coach James Poidog said:
This is big to me. You have to teach them the how and why though, like Tyler said. Once you do, its not long before they get good at it and only a little longer than that til the benefits of it manifests in their drilling and sparring. I usually start by pairing an experienced person with a beginner. The experienced one holds first and gives reasons for why they do what they do, then the beginner gets to hold for the experienced. Can be a lesson in patience for the experienced student.
This is actually exactly what happened with the two kids I would work with. They started getting really good at sparring with other kids their size. For me it was a good opportunity to pass knowledge on a little bit and learn how to be a better teacher. I don't know if either kid will ever fight (they were like 12 and 14 which is pretty young to fight in WA), but you could see they had been bit by the bug. Their dad was really supportive and they were competitive with each other so I'm hoping they continued after I moved back to BKK.
Experienced students can be get frustrated but they also need to remember that they can use those opportunities to work very specific parts of their skill set when they are working with a beginner. For example, if you want to work on your lead hook, it can be more difficult while sparring or working with someone who is your same level. When you have someone new, you can auto-pilot a little bit while hyper focusing on blocking or moving to set up the shot or look for an opening in their guard. -
Oh great! I'll try and find one tomorrow, thanks!
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57 minutes ago, LengLeng said:
But here's one of those questions. Weighted blanket tried those?
I actually have not tried these before, I only heard about them recently. I get super hot when I sleep so I'm afraid that will just make it worse. I might give it a shot though if I can find one for a decent price. I can probably buy one off Lazada. Hahaha you are definitely right though, I've tried pretty much everything. Insomnia is a serious pain in the ass.
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29 minutes ago, Jeremy Stewart said:
I use pad holding as an aid to teaching visual cues. Everyone should learn pad holding, I reckon. At some stage that is.
I completely agree. I didn't realize how important/helpful it is until I started learning to hold pads with my last Thai trainer. I used to go to a gym in the US that had us all holding pads for each other (only one coach for the gym unfortunately). I had really mixed feelings about that. The biggest problem was that no one really knew how to hold pads nor did it consistently. The coach would show people and try to make corrections where he could, but no one really understood why they were holding pads a certain way or how to watch whomever was striking. No one moved their feet, people didn't know how to catch shots, no one could mix in different strikes, etc. It was kind of a mess. I'm not very good at holding pads imo and people were blown away when I would hold freestyle. I usually ended up grabbing one of two younger kids (they were siblings) and had them hold for me because even though I couldn't use any power, they were very creative in deciding on combos for me to try. They gave my brain a workout at least. We always did pre-set combos like jab, cross, hook, knee, hook, kick. Good for a big group like that, but not really good as an individual fighter who has their own style.
Freestyling pads will teach you the "tells" and what to look for when someone attacks. Super important for progression, especially if you are going to fight.
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35 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
It would be really interesting if after you get some time in with the General's style if you came and spent an hour with Yodkunpon here in Pattaya, and see if the connection you intuit would become a real one.
There is another video you guys have posted in the past talking about how his footwork is almost more like a trot/shuffle (I forget the exact wording), and at the time I thought about how similar it was to my old footwork. I kind of dismissed it as random coincidence at the time because as you mentioned it is very unique and not many people move like that. Namsaknoi is another one who I have always really paid attention to because his footwork is so well balanced and he has a similar kind of shuffling when he circles out. Watching General Tunkawom move you can see how it would translate to a ring setting. I think it's not popular because it does take a little longer to check kicks or throw your own kicks, but it is incredibly easy to walk people down and keep them moving backwards. It's also incredibly easy to throw elbows while moving like that. I don't think it's a coincidence that Yodkhunpon is known for his elbows and that Muay Lertit has 24 unique elbows. There is absolutely some overlap there.
If I can ever get some money together I would love to come work with Yodkhunpon. I've actually wanted to come work with him for a couple of years because he was the only one I saw with that similar footwork style. I've really struggled to get my movement back after trainers tried to change my style to something "prettier" and more stadium friendly. No one seems to understand what I am trying to do and will continually insist it is wrong (which I am almost 100% sure is because of the kicking/checking aspect). Korat kind of got it, but still insisted on me having a deeper stance traditional stance than I was comfortable with. I will say that the stance change definitely helped develop power in my kicks, but I want my movement back.
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In case anyone is curious what this should sort of look like in practice (in a ring setting), this session with Yodkhunpon reflects the consistent violation of your opponents space and the constant stance switching this style uses. When done effectively it will keep your opponent from being able to regain their base as you batter them with different attacks which come from unconventional angles and sides.
The overarching idea is to initially utilize defense to see an opening and then counter, continuing to flow through attacks which will in turn create new openings until you have neutralized/shutdown your opponent. The stance switching really changes the relationship to range because you cover so much more space by being able to step or attack off either side with no reset period.
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6 hours ago, Coach James Poidog said:
The time spent trying to recover the balance is time away from countering and attacking. It just gives him so much momentum to keep steamrolling who ever hes playing with.
I love this. It's something that isn't thought about nearly as much as it should be. People don't realize how long it takes to set things up when you are off your base or recover from overextending. It mentally flusters people and they can't keep up once you start finding the gaps. I don't think people realize how much time/efficiency is lost with a lot of their strikes due to the angle or from "having fat" on their technique. That's actually a lot of what I like about this Muay Lertit style I started doing. Everything is built around never losing your balance so you can always be prepared to counter with short shots, flow through even if you miss with your intended strike (turning a missed uppercut/hook into an elbow, missed knee into a kick, etc.), and interrupting your target and knocking them off base so you create openings. I still really suck at it and am adapting (or re-adapting since it is similar to my original style), but you can 100% see how easy it would be to absolutely steamroll people once you are comfortable with it. It aint pretty, but I'll be goddamned if it isn't effective lol.
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Question about scoring/attack strategy
in Muay Thai Technique, Training and Fighting Questions
Posted · Edited by Tyler Byers
I agree with Kevin on all of this, especially teeping and checking the low kicks early.
Edit: Something else I thought about today after watching our training videos with General Tunwakom is using the shove to the neck/upper chest when you opponent goes to knee or kick. @Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu can probably find the video of this (I'm not sure where to look), but I could swear that Sylvie did a video on this specific technique.