Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu

"Establishment of the original military school The original Dai Nippon Butoku Kai facility was created as a private organization in 1895 in Kyoto.[3] in 1919, Mr Hiromichi Mishikubo (Vice-president of DBNK) made the term change from Bujutsu to Budo. In the eyes of Mishikubo the term bujutsu seemed heavily concerned with physical technique and insisted in using Budo as a mental discipline and as it was representative if the term Bushido. All -jutsu termed Arts transitioned to become -Do and thus became standard terms at the Butokukai. In 1921, the DBNK executive committee decided to make kendo, Judo and Kyudo the main Budo disciplines. Kendo and Judo grading system was established in 1895 and kyudo in 1923. By the 1930s a systematic appropriation of martial arts by the state was underway, fueled in the successful wake of the Russo-Japanese War, sped up even more in 1942–1945 during the apex of Japan's "militarisation" (sengika). This led to a number of "unprecedented policies aimed at making martial arts education combat effective and ideologically aligned with ultra-nationalistic government policy" [3] were set into motion. This strove to corral any and all budo organizations under state control to which the proposal of the "National Physical Strength Deliberation Council" sponsored by the Ministry of Health and Welfare recommended that an "all-encompassing extra-governmental organization" formed between the five ministries of Kōseishō (Health and Welfare), Mombushō (Education), Rikugunshō (Army), Kaigunshō (Navy) and the Naimushō (Home) which promoted budō in schools, community organizations and groups. This was an effective way to expand the reach and breadth of the propaganda being issued by the ultra nationalistic government into the community, plus allowing a clear path to community indoctrination through budō programs; especially notable was the efforts targeting children and schools that is apparent by the amount of funding it received, allocated by a national budget at the time." from Dai Nippon Butoku Kai wikipedia

You asked simple, so the answer is simple, but can be very effective. Just kick under it to the open side. You can even be late on this kick. There are probably a few reasons why there isn't a lot of jabbing in Thailand's Muay Thai, but this is one of them. A kick to the open side is a very significant score, one of the few strikes that doesn't even have to have effect. The jab is almost a non-score. So trading these is pure win. But, in same stance this would require you learning a quick, lead-side kick. It's a very good kick to have, so no loss there. Key though is to not rely on point-fighting. If you can develop this to have some pace (preferably with no "step" in the kick) it can become a serious deterrent, not only to the jab, but also to the straight. And, because you are tall, if you turned this also into a long knee, this could be a significant problem for opponents. These are very simple, high scoring, maybe a bit difficult to develop power in, (but you can do it), answers.

A very large difference between Japanese Ultranationalism and mid-century Thai dictatorship is that Japan's theorists placed supreme importance on the Emperor, who embodied The State, while Phibun's dictatorship, at least upon its rise, minimized the King of Thailand (who was very young). Thailand's Fascism was much more paternalistic, and perhaps (?) volkish, and perhaps lacked the same anchorage in religion that Shinto and ancestor worship did in Japan. Thailand seemed also to be positioning itself between world powers, especially in the decline of colonial influence on neighboring territory (and their claim), while all the same passing political mandates that aligned Thailand with "civilized" Western culture. Japanese Ultranationalism on the other hand was in answer and defiance of Western Culture and its seen-as morally corrosive Capitalist values. I don't know enough about Thailand's years of dictatorship to see if there were areas of overlap in theory and discussion, or if wholesale they were distinct in these ways. Or, if the growing Chinese Bangkok population (China an enemy of imperialist Japan) also steered Thailand away from closer alliance. Phibun, apparently, even explained his dress-code mandates in terms of insulating Thailand from too much Japanese influence of not outright cultural hegemony. This is to say that at the same time, roughly, Thailand and Japan were going through Fascist movement, but they were likely understood somewhat differently. Yet, the role of martial prowess, and even the fighting arts like Muay Thai &/or Karate, as a symbol of National strength, or volkish strength, may have had correspondence. As I've mentioned elsewhere, the rise of fighters like the convicted murderer, fearsome Suk in Thailand has been read as a volkish, anti-royal, or at least anti-urban, cultured elite, change in the sport early to mid-century.

This may seem out of place in a forum that is largely focused on Muay Thai, History and Philosophy, but there are two aspects that cause it to be posted here. The first is that I've long been a student of Spinoza, and intuitively felt that his Philosophy had something to say about Thailand's Muay Thai. I've also written on Spinoza and the Totalitarian State: Spinoza and State Torture and Other Unfeeling Things and Spinoza’s Logic of Affects and an Ontology of Torture, a line of thought I've never seen anyone explore. Spinoza is hailed as instead one of the earliest advocates for the democratic state, and even in some ways Liberal Democracy, and very often is depicted in terms of the immanence within his thought, a sort of liberal or radical becoming. The above Uesugi line of thought does not take my imitatio Dei argument, at least not directly. Instead he builds out of the very distinct dimension of Spinoza's thought, its denial of Free Will, putting that denial in the service of authoritarianism. This is an important aspect of Spinoza's metaphysics and I've never seen it argued from before. (There are corollaries to be made between Spinoza read as a proto-Cybernetic thinker, and Totalitarianism, of course. You can read on Spinoza as a Cybernetist here: Is Spinoza a Cyberneticist, or a Chaoplexicist?) Secondly though, I came to this study of Japanese Ultranationalism because Japanese Kickboxing in the 1970s, as it interfaced with Thailand's Muay Thai, was under strong Ultranationalist influence. Noguchi, a father of Japanese Kickboxing, was son to an Ultranationalist terrorist, (the famed boxer) Susumu Noguchi. The Yakuza who likely funded the rise of Japanese Kickboxing, had historical ties with Ultranationalism, enough to hypothesize that some of that era's ethos, behind Japanese fighting prowess was furthering this political view. And, Thailand itself had decades of totalitarian dictatorship, during which it aligned itself with Japanese Fascism, and the Fascism of Germany and Italy, not only becoming an Axis ally in WW2, but aligning itself culturally. Even Rajadamnern Stadium's architect was Italian around WW2, and it expresses some of that Neo-Classical European aesthetic. Thailand's Muay Thai, in its turn toward a volkish heroism in the 1940s-1950s, could be understood in this movement. It is enough to say that these interests and stretches of history, in Japan and Thailand, along with Spinoza, provide an interesting setting for speculative interpretation.

For now this is a placeholder for what could be a fascinating discussion of the more than ideosyncratic way that the metaphysics of Spinoza provided the metaphysical groundwork for Uesugi's Ultranationalist vision for Japan. For now just a brief sketch, and an attached PDF of the full chapter on Uesugi's political thought, from the excellent Japan's Holy War - The Radical Ideology of Japan Shinto Ultranationalism, by Walter Skya. As Skya worked to position Uesugi's thought in terms of Europe's political thought, drawing lines of direct and indirect influence, he finds no correspondence for several elements which to my eye are significantly Spinozist (the Spinoza of the Ethics). He does mark out anarchist Peter Kropotkin's influence on Uesugi, and Kropotkin had Spinoza influence (likely in just the area's Skya cites), but the areas where Spinoza's metaphysics speaks the loudest are not really addressed. This post just lines them up: They are: 1. The spatio-temperal matrix through which Uesugi views sociability. This is VERY Spinozist. 2. The way in which ancestors are said to currently exist, this is could be conceivably argued with Spinoza's sub specie aeternitatis concept of existence, a unique way of using Spinoza's metaphysics to support Shinto ancestor worship. 3. Perhaps most importantly, as it lines up two of the most distinguishing features of both thinkers, the manor in which Free Will is eclipsed both metaphysically in Spinoza, and socio-politically in Uesugi. A non-coercive authority of sheer power to which one aligns....for Spinoza it is the Universe, for Uesugi is the State as an expression of the Emperor. There are other arguable foundational aspects of thought, for instance the way that Spinoza treats women and animals as outside of the normative "us" of men, arguments of sameness which could be homologous to Uesugi's treatment of race or Nationality, and general concepts of the State or a People as a single thing, and organism (a fixed ratio of movement and rest). In any case, putting these thoughts here, and the chapter. Uesugi Shinkichi - The Emperor and the Masses.pdf <<< pdf download

Muay As Hieroglyphics The relationship is to the muay, not to any particular opponent, or achievement, belt. Those things help you create and nurture the relationship to the muay, and that means ultimately to yourself. In the muay you see yourself sculpted out against Time, in the spirit of emotion, with your body, like a stylus that has been writing in hieroglyphics your whole life.

The process is: Learn to fight with your feet.

Muay Thai is like Ancient Greek, Boxing like Latin. ... a related language.

Naked Hooks To The Body Another sign of the devolving art, spurred by Western example. Lead hook to the body (liver) from orthodox (or even southpaw) is becoming more common in stadium Muay Thai. This is just something that you couldn't do back in the day because you'd be walking right into someone's power. You'd eat a straight or an elbow (or even a head kick) that might end a fight, because they had eyes to see it. Now, even commonly from out of the pocket, defending yourself with distance, you'll see walk-into lead hooks to the body, unset-up, total disregard for the power they're walking into...because you can. This came from Western combo fighters in the sport. More and more things "work" that go against sound principles, because defensive prowess and eyes are eroding. Counters will not come on time, and will not be accurate. Nothing wrong with setting up a body shot, but just walking into it naked, multiple times, is because defense is leaving the sport. And the more "entertainment" influence the sport gets, the faster defensive capacities will drain away.

Sylvie asking Chatchai about this fight above vs Boonlai at Rajadamnern. He says it was a rematching having beaten Boonlai previously, but lost this fight after he got a toe in the eye in the 5th round (if the translation is right). Their first fight may have been in Saraburi.

Top Thais Losing Motivation to Hit Weight on Entertainment Muay Thai In Entertainment Muay Thai Thais losing the motivation to be on weight, from this thread discussion Rodtang missing weight. There isn't a concept of fighter "professionalism", something that is an individualistic economic Western concept: As Thais are cut away from their social obligations and traditional sub-culture, treated like free agents, motivations change. He is making a public apology (which in Thailand is an important move), and in doing so he takes the public face-losing heat off of those, like the head of Jitmuangnon, his family, particular people, who suffer from him missing weight. But, its not just him. Superlek blew past the agreed upon weight vs Rodtang, for the very same reason. The strings of control, all the traditional social, shame-driven dynamics that make fighters adhere to strict expectations, were being, or had been cut for Superlek. There was no reason at all to be on weight really, other than a modest amount of embarrassment. There's no "Be a professional!" shame for a fighter in Thailand. Instead, Superlek got a significant weight advantage in a big showdown fight (weight advantages in trad Muay Thai are often power play signatures), and beat Rodtang. After losing to Superlek who was what 5 or 6 lbs over (I forget what it was), why in the world would Rodtang kill himself to get on weight again? There are no guardrails. All the social constrictures are gone, and I imagine the purse penalty doesn't matter at all, he already has more financial success than he dreamed of.... ...I am only guessing from very basic ideas about Thai relations I have learned in the last decade, as they surround the Muay Thai subculture. My intuition told me that Sor Ae lost face by being forced to continue with the Superlek fight, after an almost absurd miss of weight. In trad Muay Thai if a fighter missed weight like that the opposing gym would just walk away from the fight, insulted (and the fighter's gym would have been VERY shamed by showing no control over their own fighter)..but Chartri or some other factor forced the matchup anyways. Rodtang did the cut, this was really a violation of trad norms. Being forced to be the lighter fighter contains social stigma. Powerful gyms force other gyms to take the disadvantage...so that, including the loss, probably was a big loss of face. I don't know what followed, but maybe Rodtang's easy matchup schedule, which everyone complains about, was to make up for the loss of face?...which doesn't really make up for it. One would think that Sor Ae would just be like: Fuck this! on some level, there's no trad respect. It could very well be that she is on the same page with Rodtang missing weight, or at least being pretty big, realizing that Entertainment Muay Thai is kind of non-professional in the sense that trad Muay Thai is about being exactly ON weight, perhaps in the sense that the promotion didn't treat them well in the Superlek matchup? When you are a powerful gym you tell opponents to give up pounds, not them telling you. There is also probably the sense that the promotion weight bullies Thais all the time, with Western fighters showing up huge, obvious in the ring, being able to cheat the hydration test. Thais have caught onto this. Tawanchai seems to have responded by just getting as big as possible, so he can't be weight bullied. Rodtang may have handled the possible weight bullying issue by remaining in a lower weight class and just missing weight, winning his fights, retaining his belt, taking a 20% haircut. So maybe all of this is just factored in. Rodtang doesn't want to go up and get weight bullied by massive Westerners, and the guardrails that force him to make weight, in the traditional sense, aren't really there. These are just wild speculations, including possible face-saving or status motivations. Rodtang already is extremely famous (this is a big deal and its own reward) and already is wealthy beyond his expectations. What motivation does he have? I do suspect though that the Superlek fight changed attitudes about weight cutting. Again, I have no particular insight or expertise, this is just me thinking about what might be going on. But...the idea that a sense of "professionalism" is going to somehow correct all this seems very, very unlikely. It's not in a Thai fighter's concept space of obligation.

Judo, Muay Thai and the History with Japan This came about because Muay Thai wanted to distinguish itself from Japanese Judo (and probably from anything Japanese). This is one of the more murky aspects of Muay Thai history that likely went through phases, depending on Japanese-Thai relations. When Muay Thai was being modernized in the image of British Boxing (1910-30s) Judo also was popular among the elites. Judo was a very International sport, purposely presenting itself as a modernizing, global art. Thai Royalty taught Judo they had learned in England, and Judo was likely taught in police academies...but between 1930-1950 or so (it seems) that Muay Thai took pains to separate itself out. I may have been the growing power of a large Chinese presence in sport in Bangkok (Japan was a mortal enemy), even though the Chinese were a looked-down-upon ethnicity, or it may have been backlash against the Japanese occupation in WW2, which a lot of Thais recoiled from. But, by the 1970s there was a strong NOT Judo ethic, it seems. In the 1970s as well there was a sense that the Japanese were trying to "steal" Muay Thai with the invention of entertainment Kickboxing, which was connected to Japanese Ultranationalism (Fascism). All this is to say a lot of the best eras of Muay Thai were characterized by not having any dynamics that resembled Judo. This is probably one of the reasons why Thailand Muay Khao and clinch fighting became such an artform in the 1980s and 90s. Grappling was refined in a narrow ruleset, so other principles of control had to be developed. Even basic trips that today are common were not allowed. In the early 2000s the sport started allowing trips, and eventually sweeps. This likely changed Thailand's clinch and Muay Khao style a great deal, favoring locking, bigger fighters, using more power, grappling in ways that warded off trips. It lost some of its sinuous, continuous movement, its complexity. The crackdown only seems to be notably happening in RWS, probably because its internationalized, and Thais feel like the sport is being represented...and because high profile fighters seemed to be purposely hooking with very blatant trips behind the leg, which is very "Judo". I'm guessing these two things are connected. The crackdown on the one obvious foul has led to pulling the whole ruleset back away from Judo style trips. My guess. I'm not sure what is going on in the stadia gambling cards, maybe there is some residual enforcement. And I'm not even sure of there is a scoring penalty on RWS (if you ignore the warnings), the ref advisements may just be instructional.

The Advantage of Wealth in Tourism Muay Thai In Medieval warfare, "knights" (really the rich) fought in battles armored, and trained against the less armored and less trained. In Entertainment fighting, if the sole economic and social motivations are to sell product to tourists (not just fight cards, but also every degree of adventure tourism), then one starts to enter into Medieval states. That is, opponents know their role, if they are just working for the promotion. One of the curious, ironic things is that the fear of fighting a "Tuk Tuk driver" that followed Thai fighting tourism through the 2010s, those conditions, have quietly and subtly expanded. Thai fighters are understanding the assignment, even in high profile fights. People worry about fights being thrown in the stadia because of gambling, but there is a growing inequity within Tourism Muay Thai (Muay Thai for entertainment). Muay Thai cannot survive being "fought for the foreigner".

Also I think, aside from even the ideas (and values) inside of all our heads is that what must be respected is just how authentically people experience Thailand in differing ways. It is a transportive country, and Muay Thai, no matter how you encounter it, has a way of opening foreigners up and showing themselves a possibility that is extremely meaningful...to them.

Yes, Lamnammoon is a perfect example (too bad he kind of has left go of his ambitions to restart his gym). He has that aura, that presence, that vision, that ethic.

Thanks for the good words. I used to write a Philosophy blog some years ago, so you could get a sense of my interests and influences from there. Most of it was research around Spinoza, with influences like Deleuze & Guattari, Wittgenstein, Davidson, Autopoesis, Bourdieu, minor influences like Agamben, Negri, Campanella, Vico. Most of the blog was organized around research into Spinoza's lens-grinding and optics. I'm not sure though how to recommend books, as some of the stuff I read feels very, narrow of field? This was my list of 10 greatest philosophers: 1. Spinoza (parallel postulate under a register of power) 2. Plato (formulating the Orphic) 3. Augustine (Immanent Semiotics of truth) 4. Plotinus (Degree of Being transformation of Plato) 5. Davidson (Triangulation and Objectivity) 6. Guattari and Deleuze (Ontology of Affects) 7. Wittgenstein (Language Game) 8. Nietzsche (Ascent of Metaphor) 9. Sophocles (The Surpass of Tragedy) 10. Maturana and Varela (Operational Closure)

Like the Santi Ubon Muay Thai gym mentioned above, Siriluck gym in Udonthani was thoroughly reviewed in our forum, and sounds very much like a similar style gym. We have no experience with the gym, but perhaps the author of the post would respond to questions.

Taking Privates in Thailand Listen. Taking privates in Thailand is NOT Authentic in the usual sense, but...if you've read my article post above (and clicked through to the rest) you will absolutely understand when I say: Take privates in Thailand. And take them especially from great ex-fighters and krus. Because the traditional path to elite, Golden Age Muay Thai no longer really exists in Thailand, or at the very least is highly fragmented, learning directly from the men who lived and were shaped by that process in concentrated one-on-one sessions is probably the best single thing you can do. These skills, that knowledge, was not developed in that way (one on one instruction), but these men hold knowledge that nobody on earth holds, come out of their own experiences and their continuous living in the sport especially at the highest Age of its development. There is no replacement, and its time is limited. So, while you will not be learning in the kaimuay churn in these sessions, and instead will be directly interacting with a great fighter or kru, what is being taught is in some ways the most authentic. And, if you aren't in Thailand, the Muay Thai Library is probably your only way of coming in consistent contact with it (aside from having such a great Thai kru yourself).

How Authentic is Your Muay Thai Gym in Thailand? this is a totally idiosyncratic, somewhat in fun, somewhat in all seriousness list of traits that can be added up. If the gym adds up to over 110 it's officially "authentic". This is just to add detail and perspective, not a real judgement.

in the above, there is a brief discussion of how Thailand's Muay Thai is being shaped by class, as it gravitates toward the International model of fighting and its presentation. Understanding this, especially in terms of authenticity, its necessary to how this connects up with long-standing modernizing views, and how they reflect on Siamese/Thai classes. Muay Thai as it reflects provincial origins or practices, or even urban underworld moralities, is going to turn away from those authenticities of class, when in the eyes of the upper classes. Class and The West as Model When Muay Thai "modernized" in the 1920s this was largely through the efforts of King Vajiravudh, who had been raised much of his young adult life in England. He brought back to Thailand not only broad cultural reforms modeled on European standards - particular things like giving everyone a "last name" (family name) - moving Siam to the Western notion of a modern Nation State, he also reshaped Muay Thai (then) in the image of British Boxing. This was a continuation of the upper classes following of the International image of "civilization" in a Siam way, from previous Kings (many elite and royals were educated in Europe, but it also extended itself into the decades of the middle of the century, marked by Phibun's dictatorship. In the paragraphs below you can see how the mindset of the West as model shaped the very idea of Thainess, and presentability. Phibun would install the now characteristic "ka" and "krop" gendered speech particles (which are not a tradition of Siam's people), to establish distinctions between genders in a European way, and would impose new dress codes, by mandate: from: "Pibulsongkram's Thai Nation-Building Programme during the Japanese Military Presence, 1941-1945 (1978) This is harkening to the West and its approval is not something that lives only in Thailand's past. Today as Muay Thai itself climbs up the class and standard of living ladder often will look upon its own roots with disapproval. When Westerns talk about "sport science" or take endless supplements, there is within the culture at large a self-diminishing perspective that favors these things as "modern" and necessarily superior. This is not universal though, its a strain in Thai thought. In thinking though about Muay Thai authenticity one has to take these class-oriented trends into perspective, especially as Muay Thai moves towards Entertainment and "Show" models of business, and away from its gambling (lower-class) origins. I have argued elsewhere that these rural, gambling origins likely played a powerful shaping role in creating the complexity of Thailand's Muay Thai. How Thailand's Muay Thai Has Been Collectively Created Through the Wisdom of Local Markets and Gambling

Introduction: Why Muay Thai Gym Authenticity? what does it even mean, what does authenticity involve? above, Sylvie at fight 284 (274th in Thailand), with legend Therdkiat tying on gloves about to go into the ring, Buriram What follows is my attempt to answer the question: What is an authentic Muay Thai gym in Thailand? It comes out of my rounds of answers elsewhere on the forum, but I thought it worthwhile to move these thoughts here and develop them, because its a really interesting and even important question. As more and more people travel the world to come and train (and fight) in Thailand, and as Thailand gyms and promotions turn their face toward the Westerner (and inclusively to the whole Internationalization of the world, increasingly people are going to want to find the "authentic" experience. That's why they are traveling so far, that's why they are putting their bodies on the line, to find something that isn't made for them, something they can't find anywhere else in the world: styles of training, atmospheres of fighting, an art untaught elsewhere. So getting a grip on the very idea of authenticity in such a mixed cultural milieus, amid the very sincere desires of travels, seems an important thing to do, and even a worthy exercise ethically...and spiritually. This is to say, people come to Thailand to be tested and transformed by what is different. And, in particular, Sylvie and I get a lot of questions about authenticity in Thailand because of our Muay Thai Library project, which is documenting and preserving the disappearing aspects of Thailand's Muay Thai, some of this disappearance related to the accelerations involved in Thailand's embrace of tourism, bending the sport to non-Thais. People who study and support the Muay Thai Library when they come to Thailand are particularly seeking those things, those aspects that flourished in the Golden Age of the sport, however romantically recalled. It's those things they are seeking to find, the rare, so my answer is going to be shaded in that direction. Also, its important to realize that nearly everyone who comes to Thailand and trains hard and fights have authenticity experiences. Part of this is just due to the very nature of training yourself to new heights not only physically, but emotionally and mentally. This is by its nature authentic, and you know in your heart how close you are coming to that authenticity. The other part of this is that beyond whatever I write below Thailand has an actual culture of fighting. This is like nothing else in the world. It's like going to a planet where your favorite thing pervades every aspect of life, when you step into Muay Thai culture (its krus and padmen, its gyms, its training practices, its rings, its audiences, its rites and beliefs, its sub-culture economies). There is nothing like this anywhere, where fighting is so woven into the actual lives of people as they find meaning in life. It it soaked into the fabric, and the richness of its threads are incredibly rewarding. So, if you physically, emotionally, mentally devote yourself in the gym, and you expose yourself to this other-worldly culture of fighting, you are going to be experiencing unique and rewarding authenticity, no matter how others might judge either aspect from the outside. That belongs to you, and you are an authority in this. So in this sense, everyone has their own Thailand, their own Muay Thai in Thailand reality, because it is authentic to them. It's one of the most beautiful things about this opportunity. So, what follows if it contradicts with what you or what someone else experienced, this does not in any way diminish that sense of authenticity. This answer is simply from the perspective of Sylvie and myself, as we've had experiences that may be very different than others. Sylvie's stayed away from big gyms and big promotions (because they can be controlling, especially for a female fighter), she's positioned herself on the edge of Muay Thai tourism, and has fought more times than any non-Thai in Thailand (as of writing, 274 times. She's also spent half a decade studying, training with, archiving, documenting the greatest living Muay Thai fighters in history, nearing now 200 hours of archival footage, countless discussions and interviews the great men of Thailand's past. She has a unique experience, especially as it reflects on the question of authenticity, and I as her partner in all this, behind the camera and part of all those relationships, share that perspective. This is just writing out our view of authenticity of Muay Thai gyms, to be put along side other views, other experiences, as I feel like everyone has these experiences. What is difficult though is that many people who ask this question from across the globe lack the information to even make the assessment from afar, of what will satisfy their desires which have motivated them to come for a long term stay. Not only is first-hand reporting from people online undependable, because people are VERY different, and require different things, not just in terms of skill, but also in terms of physical size, or even temperament (your temperament may really shape how people treat you in a foreign culture) AND because gyms change very quickly in Thailand. Even 3 months might present a different gym if a trainer comes or goes, or a dominant influence in the gym in terms of fighters or students come or go. Gyms are very sensitive micro-cultures, they shift all the time. This can be incredibly frustrating, especially as one seeks to move off-the-beaten-path, where gyms can change even more frequently. In that light it seems good to just put these thoughts out there. They come from an uncommon source and should add to anyone's perspective. * Also keep in mind in the below, Sylvie does not spend time in lots of gyms in Thailand. She's been all over the country, and in many gyms, but often when filming this is off-hours. And when she has trained in gyms, this is often several years ago. Gyms and spaces change. ** Also, there are still gyms that resist Western influences and Western fighters. Joining these spaces is complex and not necessarily satisfying. The Commercial Muay Thai Gym and the Kaimuay Some of the difficulty in pursuing "authenticity" in Thai gyms is that non-Thai can tend to have pretty romantic visions of what an authentic gym is like. Or, at the very least incomplete pictures. And, there are versions of imagined authenticity. A great deal of Thailand's Muay Thai of the past came out of the kaimuay (camp) teaching or development method, but there were very different kinds of kaimuay, in some way depending on how close you are to Bangkok's National Stadia, or large city centers where there were scenes of weight class fighting, and thus more money put into the sport. In the outer provinces kaimuay could be just a collection of local boys, in Bangkok a gym that had bought up the contracts of successful provincial fighters, combined with other training/trainer interests. But in these settings there was very little one-on-one instruction, as far as we can tell. Instead, fighters were basically workers, laborers, much as ranch-hands were laborers in the Cattle Ranching of the American West. Fighters were very low status, socially, pad men also usually low status, and the development of fighters was a process, come from mixing all the fighters together, in the work of the kaimuay. There's really no Master & Student dynamic going on, as for instance in Asian Martial Arts, or even like coach-centric Western Boxing traditions. It was largely the churn. Fighters would fall out, or they would rise. There were likely exceptions and unique dynamics in gyms, but this was the "authentic" profile of what was happening. So, if you wanted to be part of a kaimuay, as it was, you would just be in the churn. You wouldn't be getting special instruction. You'd be learning by imitation and repetition, and through lots of sparring and clinch. You would have no authority as a customer (in this fantasy), you wouldn't be allowed to leave the camp and go to another gym if things weren't working out (this problem STILL happens for Westerners in Thailand, believe it or not, because Muay Thai gym are very political). You'd be in a state more or less like indentured work. That kaimuay, as it was, largely doesn't exist anymore. Which is to say Thai camps have vestigial aspects of the kaimuay, and some still train with a focus on the churn (which is the true way), but this is very far from going to a camp and taking private lessons, as a paying customer. Now lots of Muay Thai gyms offer privates, and also have adapted training to Western expectations, involving more correction and attention, and some of those still try to maintain something of the kaimuay ethic. But, we are already outside of "authentic" as it historically was. So when Westerners really long for the authentic experience, they are often caught between kinds of gyms, gyms that maintain SOME dimensions of authenticity (just some of that: train in a kaimuay way, focus on Thai techniques and principles, produce Thai stadium fighters themselves, carry a culture of traditional respect and power), but none of them will have all of that (at least as I've seen). Worse, many (even with some authentic qualities, will have started training in more Western ways, holding for combos, focused on Entertainment Muay Thai (which is basically Muay Thai made for tourists and tourism). So its very hard to pick out WHICH authentic elements you are going to get. You could go to a "traditional style" gym known for Muay Khao and just end up clinching endlessly with Westerners who also came there because its known for clinch training. You could go where a true legend of the sport like Arjan Surat still works fighters for the stadia, but there may be nobody your size to train against and with. You could go up to a REAL provincial kaimuay like Santi Gym in Ubon, and just train in the churn of fighters reaching for the stadia, but they probably wouldn't be giving privates (?), and you might find the work boring or isolating. You could go to a "technique" gym like Sitjaopho, where you'll (probably) be pressed together with lots of other Westerners very interested in technique, but in a hybrid way that has approximated the kaimuay churn, while offering lots of correction and teaching, but you won't likely be training with Thai fighters. You could go to Sit Thailand in Chiang Mai, which seems to have a small kaimuay structure, organized around developing his son and a few other good Thais, and take privates from him (a very good teacher), but are there people to train with (this changes a lot in gyms)? Or, you could go the Samart's gym, and be trained by legends like Kongtoranee or Karuhat, and be near (mixed in? I don't know) the Thai kaimuay like processes of their handful of stadium fighters, in a kind of hybrid space? These are just very broad pictures (every gym changes, and as mentioned, we don't really spend time in gyms much). Every gym is going to be missing something, probably a lot of things. This is the fundamental problem for Westerners. Muay Thai has more and more become FOR the Westerner. In fact they've now invented a new version of Muay Thai which is FOR the Westerner, and its becoming dominant. But, if Muay Thai wasn't turning its face to the Westerner there would be little room for the Westerner in traditional spaces...because traditional spaces are not only hierarchical (not commercial for customers), they were also businesses in the way that Cattle Ranches were businesses. You wouldn't come from another country and go to a ranch in 1950 in Texas to "learn how to be a cowboy". Part of the problem is that Muay Thai itself, in its authentic strain, is dying, so you can only capture pieces of it, fragments, at best chunks. I'm not an expert in this, only someone with my own experience, but this perspective comes from documenting the Golden Age of the sport, getting to know the great teachers of the art and sport as they are now, but also continually hunting for the kaimuay qualities of "authenticity" for Sylvie herself, as she trains and fights. It's very difficult to find. In the below, if you are thinking about any of these gyms I strongly recommend you watch the Muay Thai Library session to get a sense of the muay that is being taught, the energy of the teaching, and even the space. It will give you deep insight into what you may be experiencing if you go, keeping in mind that these are private sessions, and Sylvie is a unique student. Muay Thai Gyms With Dimensions of Authenticity Just to offer something, gyms change all the time, and factors of "authenticity" can also change. And who you are and what you need/desire is probably more important than even the qualities of the gym at times. Dejrat Gym, Bangkok - Arjan Surat is an absolute legend, nobody like him in the entire sport. Gym in his garage (not uncommon in the day), lighter weight stadium fighters even at the champion level come through his gym still. A very tough old school trainer. Pads will shape you. May not be a full gym. Arjan Surat trained one of the first WBC World Boxing Champions Phayao in the 1970s, and countless Golden Age legends and fighters. His gym has long been a station for the wayward fighter who needs toughing up, and Karuhat himself "ran away" after only one day, back in the day. If you want to time-travel into pure Muay Thai Arajan-ness, train in his gym which is just his garage and experience some of the deeper principles of the art and discipline of the sport, this is the place. Dejrat Muay Thai Academy map link You can see the gym, and study his fighting style in the Muay Thai Library. Not only are there sessions with Arjan, but also with his ex-fighters who carry the Dejrat fighting style forward. It's a tough, disciplined, on-balance, often hands-heavy, stalking style. And Arjan is basically the Clint Eastwood of Muay Thai, if Clint's characters were real. #61 Arjan Surat 1 - Old School Master (37 min) watch it here Arjan Surat stands as a tower in the pantheon of great coaches of Thailand. Coach of the Thai National Team, Kru of legends since the Golden Age, there is nobody like him. Learn the basics of his technique, but what is more look into the eyes of the one of the great coaches ever, training legends in his garage for decades. #90 Arjan Surat 2 - His Old School Tough & Defensive Style (94 min) watch it here A legend of Bangkok and coach of the Thai National Team, Arjan Surat has a toughened, defense oriented, forward style. In this session he builds it from the ground up, starting with his old school arm swing on the kick (no swing, instead using it to simultaneously block), emphasizing balance and solid framing. Watch and learn! #112 Chatchainoi Chaoraioi - The Best Padman in Thailand (64 min) watch it here Called The Man of Stone when he was a Golden Age fighter at the Derjat Gym, today he is the best padman in Thailand, as far as we have experienced. Learn what makes his padwork so effective, and the forward, hardnosed Muay Thai style that he teaches. #143 Takrowlek Dejrat - Master of the Low Kick (90 min) watch it here One of the great low kicking fighters of the Golden Age teaches his squared up, pressuring, Muay Beuk fight philosophy which uses an extremely fast, vertical low kicking technique that keeps the opponent exactly where you want them. This punishing style, built on defense and ring control is extremely effective, using techniques that are not often taught. Study the low kick in a way you haven't seen before. Santi Ubon Gym, Ubon - a real provincial kaimuay, full of local kids and teens, some ranked BKK stadium fighters, you'll get the legit culture of provincial Muay Thai here. No English spoken. Santi Muay Thai Gym map link there's a MTL session which details the training and where you can see the gym and its settings: #149 Provincial Kaimuay Knowledge | Santi Ubon Muay Thai (85 min) watch it here Everyone wants to know what "authentic" Muay Thai training is like in Thailand. We visit and document the kaimuay training style of the Santi gym in Ubon (Isaan), the traditional, local community style of training that is core to Thailand's historical style of fighting. Learn the energy of padwork, sparring and clinch, how fighters are shaped from the ground up. Training like there is nowhere else in the world. Sitjaopho Gym, Hua Hin - a very interesting hybrid gym completely organized around Westerners who love technique. Loads of teaching, loads of training, Kru F a great communicator and as nice as you'll find in Thailand. They have a system of teaching that is connected to kaimuay principles in a very devoted way...but its pretty much for Westerners. Some long term Westerners there are also very helpful and knowledgeable, and in fact may be really key to how the whole gym stays in that sweetspot, and gyms can be very affected by who is training. You train here you will learn. Sitjaopho Muay Thai Gym map link #118 Phettho Sitjaopho - Muay Femeu Excellence (70 min) watch it here Much loved Kru F of Sitjaopho Gym in Hua Hin has beautiful Muay Femeu technique. Learn his secrets to very manageable muay, featuring balance, supreme defense, the development of feeling and naturalness. Learn with me as I learn from him. Look Nungubon Muay Thai Gym, Ubon - great legend of the Golden Age, his son a strong stadium fighter now, which really is good to have in a gym. Out of the way so the Westerners who come to this gym have trekked to get there. The gym has real sincerity, Nungubon is wonderful and Old School. Did not see training, but it seemed like maybe not a full gym. That can be good and can be bad, depends on your needs. Nungubon's Muay Thai map link #147 Nungubon Sitlertchai - Explosive Striking & Control Over Space (1 hr, 40 min) watch it here Visiting Nungubon's gym way out in Ubon Ratchathani Isaan we are able to document his absolutely beautiful muay, both explosive and full of the control over space. Learn his secrets to a fluid, punishing Muay Thai, bringing together the arts of boxing and muay, built on a devotion to shadowboxing. True Golden Age excellence. Samart's Gym, Bangkok - Gyms in the 2010s started informally breaking themselves into two kinds of gyms, which operated side-by-side. There was "Thai gym" (which trains Thais for the stadia in a traditional way), and the Western gym (which trains Westerners, in parallel to the Thais). Often Westerners can't even tell that there are two different gyms operating side-by-side (that's a little how it felt). At Samart's you get to be trained by legends like Kongtoranee and Karuhat, and there are top Thai low-weight stadium champion level fighters like Chalamchon (photo shoot here) developing. The experience is unique because of just how many Golden Age legends are around, including Samart of course, but also Somrak, Dieselnoi will come through, and many others. So it has a mix of authenticities, some of them absolutely unique. Samart Payakaroon Gym map link #34 Samart Payakaroon - Balance, Balance, Balance! (81 min) watch it here Atop the tower of Muay Thai legends probably stands Samart. 3x Fighter of the Year, 4x Lumpinee Champion and WBC World Boxing Champion, no fighter more brilliantly showed what femeu fighting could do. In this session he shows the foundations of how to build true balance, the ultimate key to his fighting style. #37 Kongtoranee Payakaroon - Power In The Hands (89 min) watch it here 5x Lumpinee Champion, 2x Fighter of the Year, Kongtoranee teaches the fundamental grounding of strikes that made him one of the most feared heavy-handed fighters in Thailand. Such economy of movement expresses the true beauty in his style, quite different than - but no less admirable - that of his young brother Samart. Samingnoom Gym Buriram - a great legend of the Golden Age, adept in both boxing and Muay Thai, history of teaching abroad in places like New Zealand and Finland, built his own ring beside his small house which he also built by hand. These little gyms have the heartbeat of traditional Muay Thai. He trains local kids and adventuresome foreigners. Very barebones authentic Muay Thai. Samingnoom Muay Thai map link #128 Samingnoom Sitboontam - Femeu Timing & Dominance (1 hr, 43 min) watch it here Almost a documentary film on its own, we go to the hand-built cinderblock home of early Golden Age legend Samingnoom, where he has retreated from International teaching, and Bangkok gyms. His ring surrounded by farmland, is where he teaches an extremely femeu style that has nearly vanished from Muay Thai. This is traveling back in time, into Muay Thai history in more than one way, and its beautiful. Kem Muay Thai Gym, Khao Yai - Kem a great fighter of the 2000s runs a trad camp in maybe the most beautiful location in Thailand, high up in the Khao Yai mountains, overlooking a valley. The training is kaimuay style, mixed in with Western style drilling that Kem feels builds proper principles. Kem is very, very sound in terms of the deeper principles of Muay Thai, not only its beautiful strikes, but its balance and footwork. Most of the gym will be Westerners, but they've come a long way so they are committed. His wife Mo is wonderful, and speaks English, so even though it feels very Thai, she can help out with any issues. Everyone eats together, traditional style, high up above the camp. One of the great privates in Thailand. Kem Muay Thai Gym map link #13 Kem Sitsongpeenong 1 - Building a System (52 min) watch it here Kem, one of the best fighters of his generation, shows me building blocks of his system. He teaching a firm, defensive frame, and especially likes an upward elbow that explodes out of blocks, checks and fake teeps. #53 Kem Sitsonpeenong 2 - Mastering Everything In Between (80 min) watch it here With one of the great technique krus of Thailand, Kem Kem Muaythai Gym, in his gym in the mountains just below Khorat. A special session that details how to work on all the things in-between strikes. So much to learn in this 80 minutes. He's a special teacher. #137 Kem Sitsongpeenong 3 - Balance, Fakes and Calm (102 mins) watch it here or podcast here Kem goes right to the heart of his beautiful, explosive style. It's all about calm and balance, and using that balance to create change of speed and direction, exposing your opponent to sudden attacks, set up by a mix of fakes & rhythm. What is being taught here can add to the effectiveness of any style fighter, filming at his beautiful gym in the Khao Yai mountains. A Checklist of Authenticity The way I see it there are several overlapping, and sometimes contradictory processes of gym "authenticity": developing young Thai fighters to fight in the festival circuit and eventually the traditional stadia (not Entertainment Muay Thai shows) disseminating, developing Thai techniques and stylistics through a slow-cook "churn" of training: learning through arduous, play (<< this is important), osmosis and imitation maintaining a traditional authority culture, including the legacy of the gym, its heritage gaining prestige through high-profile fighters in the Bangkok stadia gambling scene the gym, the kaimuay, an expression of the local community, a weave of its people, its location a house - sometimes literally a house - of knowledge, kept within a top kru or boss who productively runs the camp, this knowledge is both political craft and technical fighting craft. a collection of entrepreneurial knowledges within the group, betting padmen, who themselves are jostling for social position a house where chance (gambling) meets technique (knowledge) A lot of this runs counter, or is outright alien to a foreigner (not of the community) paying for (commerce, not alliance) technical knowledge (the structure of the house). So gyms that accept foreigners become hybrid spaces, often with parallel (and contradictory) value systems, or social organization. The more prominent the newer value system, the less "authentic" the gym may be...in this particular description, which imagines that there is something "authentic" to be found and experienced. You can get fragments of this: the experience of kids developing and fighting, the techniques in a lineage, the aura of "respect" and "tradition", the churn of a gym, in mixtures, but almost always in combination with the secondary (usual conflictual) value system that provides admission to the gym. This being said, the two value systems, roughly we can call them Tradition and Consumer Capitalism, are always working upon each other in the culture, and uniquely in every gym, mutating each other, so there are no hard lines between the two. In gyms where there are parallel structures, one for Thais and one for Westerners, the two value systems can become more distinct, if you develop eyes for them, but in terms of the Thais themselves, the meaning within each value system still has to be understood in terms of Thai culture, social class and capital (prestige). In otherwords, even in the values of Consumer Capitalism, everything is still being understood by Thais in terms of traditional hierarchies, position and social contest. Western values like the autonomy of the individual (which often inspires a Westerner to become a fighter), the liberty of choice & service purchase, are really not at play; they are merely tolerated as a means of commerce. This is to say, even supposedly "inauthentic gyms" insofar as they are Thai, are still more traditional than most Westerners may imagine, even if they cater strongly to Westerners and Western style training, because Thai social hierarchies and motivations underlie everything. By analogy, a Thai owned restaurant might make hamburgers and steaks for tourists, but its still very Thai in the kitchen and the back of the house. But...hanging with the Western customers, adopting the signatures of that food's culture, participating in its celebration appeal, may very well change what kind of Thainess there is. And remember, class is a very significant part of Thailand's purported authentic Muay Thai. Nearly all the great fighters of the past were provincial fighters who made it in Bangkok, where powerful elites (Sino-Thai promoters) and underworld bosses held court, and where Muay Thai had an ideological dimension expressed by Thai Nationalism and royalty. All of these classes were "authentic" Muay Thai, but as with most highly developed fighting arts, the core of this authenticity comes out of the lower classes, the rural poor, or the urban working poor. This is where the myriad of small gyms and fighters come out of, the roots of the sport. So, in a sense, the further you move away from this, the further - at least culturally and historically - you are moving away from a kind of resolute authenticity. Today's Muay Thai in the Capital is being redesigned for the Thai hi-so (upper classes), in the inspiration of the next generation of promoter families, some of them educated abroad, often in America. It is being internationalized, as Thailand has always had an internationalizing strain within its culture, which sees social wealth in terms of world standards. Entertainment Muay Thai shows now show inspiration from NBA half-time entertainment, and its not an accident. This is an expression of class. The turn towards tourism aids in this transformation, as the Thai government leans into the tourist sector economy, developing not only economic power, but Soft ideological power, (the ability to sway world opinion through perceived cultural value). The political elite are expressing themselves, in terms of Muay Thai, in this new way, just as there was a political elite (authentic) expression of Muay Thai 40 years ago, 70 years ago. This stretches Muay Thai away from its lower class root system. And, within gyms, ex-fighters are finding themselves having left the lower classes they came from, at least in terms of opportunity. This is on account of Thailand's rising standards of living, but also part of their own risen status within a sport that is increasingly turning toward the foreigner. Their sons (now of fighting age) are in a different social strata, with opportunities quite different than those that led them into fighting in the first place, and their gyms (or their students when they don't own gyms) increasingly cater to the Westerner, who without irony, holds them in more esteem than perhaps fellow countrymen, who considered Muay Thai low-brow and underclass. In such gyms and training having affluent students is a signature of social climbing, and even having (relatively) affluent Westerners holding pads or teaching weight training, under them, working FOR them, raises their social position...all without regard for the quality of Muay Thai within the house. There is an authentically Thai drive to move up the social ladder, in a sense because that is what Muay Thai itself always was, the agonistic struggle for recognition and accomplishment. Yodkhunon once asked Sylvie, who prolifically fights out of her own value sense "Why do you still fight, you are already famous?" Changes in the sport and art which we might regard as "inauthentic" are authentically Thai. Soft Power and the Thai Gym Someone like me might see a gym that is now holding for combos when it used to not, or have a combo-holding Westerner on pads, for Muay Thai shows that have become combo-centric and clashy for the enjoyment of the tourist, as deeply inauthentic, almost a cultural colonization of the sport. But because Thailand's Muay Thai largely is an art of social climbing, done through the art of ring fighting and gambling social capital, moving toward a combo-centric teaching and fighting style, with Westerners in the gym, is bringing not only financial affluence, but also is moving away from Muay Thai's lower class (and rural) roots. It's bringing social status, as Thailand bends towards International values and standards. It doesn't matter so much that this is a less effective way of fighting, or that Thais themselves are losing their fighting acumen and art in imitation of the West, because within Thai sensibility has always been a strain that seeks to distance itself from the rural and "uneducated", joining the World in its modernity. Since before the end of the 19th century when Thai elites and royals educated themselves abroad in England, there has always been an aspect of self-renunciation of the provincial other. Bangkok, in its National Stadia traditional fighting in the 1970s-1990s presented a unique amalgam, filled with rural fighters and their arts, gyms of mob bosses and other kinds of bosses, its own kind of rich, a slowly rising economy which would become deeply internationalized by the early 1990s, it was a heady mixture of tradition, class and investment. Through this, including the influence of Western Boxing through those decades, "authentic" Muay Thai was changing. But, for those coming to Thailand from across the world, today, its important to note that the true "soft power" of the sport relies on its unique foundations in the lower classes of the country (as in all fighting arts), the residual knowledge, practices, beliefs, which powered the entire sport and art, as it then was signified, displayed, developed, symbolized in the Capital (this is leaving aside discussion of the specific military - and police - history of Muay Thai). The authenticity, in that there is one that the foreigner is looking for, is the aspect of Muay Thai that cannot be made or invented by anyone else...calling into question the new-style imposition of training and fighting in imitation of the Westerner. With all irony aside, the Westerner comes all the way to Thailand to not find themselves in a mirror. Its to find something they do not understand, something that they intuit is important to them, but which is alien and perhaps unapproachable. Something that will change them. That is the true Soft Power of Muay Thai, that is what the Westerner often means by "authentic". Another Checklist of Authenticity In thinking through this, this means things like: local, neighborhood development of kid fighters local, festival, gambling driven fighting, where social face is at risk learning directly from great krus & legends who know a Muay Thai that no longer exists, and may ever exist again (even if direct teaching like this is not traditional or "authentic" in its own right). training in the churn of a full gym, preferably predominantly Thais seeking to fight, with a full spectrum of skill levels finding and respecting tradition-rich spaces which hold the unique history of the sport partaking in the culture of respect and hierarchy (which may mean suffering under it, losing autonomy, even losing good training or fight opportunities). For foreign women they can be even more complex & problematic, even dangerous. learning to lose - this means, exposing yourself to largely alien traditional fight aesthetics, learning 1,000 ways to lose refusing common for-Westerner advantages, including weight bullying advantages. In Thai culture, weight bullying usually comes out of political power, the ability to impose disadvantages on the less powerful. do the work, which can be transformative, but understand this is traditionally labor and done through social submission understand that the art of (trad) Muay Thai will challenge your understanding and experience of violence. In general, avoid Entertainment Shows which have been made for the Westerner, and the foreigner in general, both as participant, and as consumer. It's like eating super sweet, peanut-buttery Pad Thai all day. And find excessive combo training (anything pre-patterned that you are supposed to "do" under stress, trained in rote), especially organized around hands, suspect. Muay Thai in its traditional form should be improvisational, perceptive, defense-oriented, and narrative. It's built around display and problem-solving. As Entertainment Muay Thai impacts even traditional shows, the rise of the combo has entered even otherwise "authentic" gyms. Given the low-skill level required from pad holders, and the low level of investment, it is populating the very language of Muay Thai. Add in that Westerners are starting to hold pads in gyms (and what most Westerners know best is combination thinking), the one realizes that the Combo and the Entertainment Show are two powerful currents that move against the transformative authentic experience described above. Combos proliferate because they are easy to teach and do not require the entire social setting of a kaimuay, and because Entertainment Muay Thai is made to reward them. The "authentic" knowledge of the sport is being quickly drained away at both the pedagogic and performative level, through patterned clashing. Worse Than The Army When we asked the legend Pudpadnoi why he left Muay Thai in the 1970s, one of the very best of the decade, he said "It was worse than the Army" He briefly went to America, and then settled in France, becoming one of the first of elite Thai fighters bringing authentic Muay Thai to Europe, a Muay Thai though that as a fighting knowledge is difficult to separate out the social conditions which generated it, and the fights that produced it. Pudpadnoi didn't mean just the training, it meant how controlled he was. Filming at one of Bangkok's more "closed" gyms (they only have Thais who train for the stadia and top promotions) we asked if they would accept Westerners. Immediately they shock their head "no", but then 30 minutes later a different answer came. "They could train here, but they couldn't leave". It wasn't immediately clear what this meant, but it did mean that any fighter would be under their social control...in the traditional sense of pervading control. What Sylvie Looks For In Terms of Gym Authenticity Now For us, for Sylvie, who is incredibly experienced both in Thai style training and in fighting, and who speaks Thai with near fluency, we look for specific aspects of "authenticity" and are willing to sacrifice others. For us, the training in a gym is conditioned by the moral force of the Big Boss, the owner. The owner, if strong in character and motivated, exerts a pressure on the entire gym that not only makes training consistent, but also expressive of their ethos. Who they are, and what Muay Thai means to them permeates everything, transmitting a quality. And, this is expressed stylistically in the fighters they develop. A good, authentic gym will be something like a stew in which the various kru and padmen each contribute their stylistic and technical perspective, but it all becomes folded in under the head of the gym. So the first thing we look for is not a successful "business", but a personal expression, a culture of Muay Thai, under a moral force of character. This will produce a kaimuay churn of work in which styles and techniques become mixed. There is good work to do there. You are nourished by the churn, and someone like Sylvie can add to it, mix in intensities, styles & qualities she's picked up from training with and fighting for legends, and from a vast in-ring experience itself. Importantly, for us, The top-down exercise of stylistic force, the ethos that holds the gym forward and gives it personal direction also needs to be connected to the community, to a continual class of young Thai fighters, a mix of growth that is ever in development. This often breaks into "classes" (fighters of a certain age) that develop in parallel, each fighter sharpening the other. This is the bubbling up of Muay Thai. Without this the vitality of the gym, and of its owner can be lost. Today, as the socio-economic conditions of Muay Thai are either eroding or shifting, the gap between these two is widening. There are fewer and fewer young, local fighters, and Big Bosses become more business men, with Westerners filling in the growing chasm. The cultural dimensions of Muay Thai, its meaning and its most effective training dimensions are splitting apart. And the tourist is making up the difference (with Entertainment Muay Thai in tow). In many ways the traditional form of the kaimuay is now fragmented, gym heads are now running commercial enterprises in which character and ethos are less in play, and the Thai youth are not entering the sport. So we piece things together, finding important, powerful parts of authenticity, training directly (in non-Traditional ways) with men of great character, ethos and skill, shapers of great muay, even if they don't run gyms, and finding streams of youth, where young fighters are still developing in a churn of training, reflective of kaimuay...and imposing Old School training principles on our own, in isolation, kind of cobbling together what was "authentic" in ways that would nourish further growth and discovery. A kind of virtual authenticity...this is some of the ethic behind the Muay Thai Library documentary project, because the character and knowledge of these men will pass away, and in fact the MTL itself was simply the record of Sylvie already piecing together training when we found existing gyms un-ideal, even though living, training and fighting frequently in Thailand.

And, there is one final dimension of "authentic" Muay Thai that deserves focus. That is that Muay Thai is trained in order to be fought, and to be fought frequently. Fighting is a part of training, an important feedback loop that is central to understanding your own growth, and for those who shape you to see how you are doing. It is NOT a test to see "how good you are". It is NOT a test of your worth. NOT something you want to save for a special moment of assessment. It is a very frequent, common, unhyped aspect of Muay Thai itself, and why Thai fighters have 100s of fights. This, perhaps more than any one thing characterizes the unique fight culture and process of Thailand's Muay Thai, not like anything else in the world. And, importantly, fighting is a very significant social event of gyms, a way of experiencing what is culturally unique about Thailand's Muay Thai. This means, if you are training outside of regular fighting (and I do mean very regular) you are missing something quite "authentic" in Muay Thai, even if all the other aspects of authenticity I've talked about previously are more or less on-board. This also means, for many Westerners, the much abhorred (by me and others like me) Entertainment Muay Thai may very well be the ONLY way of experiencing a very close relationship between frequent fighting and training which is core to the traditional form. This may mean, depending on where you are in Thailand, and maybe your size or gender, you might very well find yourself training in memorized combos and fighting on 3 round shows, in order to experience this very important "authentic" relationship between frequent fighting and Muay Thai development. Ideally, you would want to be doing this frequent fighting in traditional formats, with local gambling, which constitutes the more authentic form, but this just may not be possible. And, you may have to choose between in-frequent fighting and more authentic training conditions AND more tourist-oriented frequent fighting Entertainment shows, where can be rewarded for fighting in a non-Thai fashion. This is why some hybrid gyms like Hongtong, Sitjaopho, Silk (in Pattaya), Kem's in Khao Yai may be worthy "authenticity" choices, in that they though geared towards Westerners, they also create churn-like training conditions, and favor frequent fighting, which may involve both (trad) festival and Entertainment options. As might various Phuket gyms (?, sorry I don't know this sector). In a certain sense there is so much variety, and the authentic form of traditional Muay Thai is so fragmented, a serious student or fighter coming to Thailand has an incredible spectrum of choices of just how much, and what kind of "authenticity" they would like in their experience, all of it mixed in degrees. Unfortunately, its very hard to make those kinds of choices from afar, and it is very difficult to depend on the opinions of those already in Thailand, because gyms change quickly, and your own needs may be quite different even than someone who seems like they might be somewhat like you.

For us, for Sylvie, who is incredibly experienced both in Thai style training and in fighting, and who speaks Thai with near fluency, we look for specific aspects of "authenticity" and are willing to sacrifice others. For us, the training in a gym is conditioned by the moral force of the Big Boss, the owner. The owner, if strong in character and motivated, exerts a pressure on the entire gym that not only makes training consistent, but also expressive of their ethos. Who they are, and what Muay Thai means to them permeates everything, transmitting a quality. And, this is expressed stylistically in the fighters they develop. A good, authentic gym will be something like a stew in which the various kru and padmen each contribute their stylistic and technical perspective, but it all becomes folded in under the head of the gym. So the first thing we look for is not a successful "business", but a personal expression, a culture of Muay Thai, under a moral force of character. This will produce a kaimuay churn of work in which styles and techniques become mixed. There is good work to do there. You are nourished by the churn, and someone like Sylvie can add to it, mix in intensities, styles & qualities she's picked up from training with and fighting for legends, and from a vast in-ring experience itself. Importantly, for us, The top-down exercise of stylistic force, the ethos that holds the gym forward and gives it personal direction also needs to be connected to the community, to a continual class of young Thai fighters, a mix of growth that is ever in development. This often breaks into "classes" (fighters of a certain age) that develop in parallel, each fighter sharpening the other. This is the bubbling up of Muay Thai. Without this the vitality of the gym, and of its owner can be lost. Today, as the socio-economic conditions of Muay Thai are either eroding or shifting, the gap between these two is widening. There are fewer and fewer young, local fighters, and Big Bosses become more business men, with Westerners filling in the growing chasm. The cultural dimensions of Muay Thai, its meaning and its most effective training dimensions are splitting apart. And the tourist is making up the difference (with Entertainment Muay Thai in tow). In many ways the traditional form of the kaimuay is now fragmented, gym heads are now running commercial enterprises in which character and ethos are less in play, and the Thai youth are not entering the sport. So we piece things together, finding important, powerful parts of authenticity, training directly (in non-Traditional ways) with men of great character, ethos and skill, shapers of great muay, even if they don't run gyms, and finding streams of youth, where young fighters are still developing in a churn of training, reflective of kaimuay...and imposing Old School training principles on our own, in isolation, kind of cobbling together what was "authentic" in ways that would nourish further growth and discovery. A kind of virtual authenticity...this is some of the ethic behind the Muay Thai Library documentary project, because the character and knowledge of these men will pass away, and in fact the MTL itself was simply the record of Sylvie already piecing together training when we found existing gyms un-ideal, even though living, training and fighting frequently in Thailand.

When we asked the legend Pudpadnoi why he left Muay Thai in the 1970s, one of the very best of the decade, he said "It was worse than the Army" He briefly went to America, and then settled in France, becoming one of the first of elite Thai fighters bringing authentic Muay Thai to Europe, a Muay Thai though that as a fighting knowledge is difficult to separate out the social conditions which generated it, and the fights that produced it.

In thinking through this, this means things like: local, neighborhood development of kid fighters local, festival, gambling driven fighting, where social face is at risk learning directly from great krus & legends who know a Muay Thai that no longer exists, and may ever exist again (even if direct teaching like this is not traditional or "authentic" in its own right). training in the churn of a full gym, preferably predominantly Thais seeking to fight, with a full spectrum of skill levels finding and respecting tradition-rich spaces which hold the unique history of the sport partaking in the culture of respect and hierarchy (which may mean suffering under it, losing autonomy, even losing good training or fight opportunities). For foreign women they can be even more complex & problematic, even dangerous. learning to lose - this means, exposing yourself to largely alien traditional fight aesthetics, learning 1,000 ways to lose refusing common for-Westerner advantages, including weight bullying advantages. In Thai culture, weight bullying usually comes out of political power, the ability to impose disadvantages on the less powerful. do the work, which can be transformative, but understand this is traditionally labor and done through social submission understand that the art of (trad) Muay Thai will challenge your understanding and experience of violence. In general, avoid Entertainment Shows which have been made for the Westerner, and the foreigner in general, both as participant, and as consumer. It's like eating super sweet, peanut-buttery Pad Thai all day. And find excessive combo training (anything pre-patterned that you are supposed to "do" under stress, trained in rote), especially organized around hands, suspect. Muay Thai in its traditional form should be improvisational, perceptive, defense-oriented, and narrative. It's built around display and problem-solving. As Entertainment Muay Thai impacts even traditional shows, the rise of the combo has entered even otherwise "authentic" gyms. Given the low-skill level required from pad holders, and the low level of investment, it is populating the very language of Muay Thai. Add in that Westerners are starting to hold pads in gyms (and what most Westerners know best is combination thinking), the one realizes that the Combo and the Entertainment Show are two powerful currents that move against the transformative authentic experience described above. Combos proliferate because they are easy to teach and do not require the entire social setting of a kaimuay, and because Entertainment Muay Thai is made to reward them. The "authentic" knowledge of the sport is being quickly drained away at both the pedagogic and performative level, through patterned clashing.