Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu

The surest way to speak to someone who might help is through the WMA website: https://www.wmathailand.com/

I know that Kru Ten in the Muay Thai Library offered a solid counter to the Face Smush in clinch: #42 Boraphet Pinsinchai - Muay Khao Fighting Techniques (50 min) https://www.patreon.com/posts/19768793 #23 Boraphet Pinsinchai - Muay Khao Mastery (64 min) https://www.patreon.com/posts/14262395 I'm pretty sure it's in the first one we filmed #23, but above are links to both. You basically just reach across and over their outstretched arms, with your back hand, and pull the arms toward you and down, past the face. It's a pretty effective counter, as long as your own lead arm isn't too deep in, and over-turned. You want to also stand up straight with good Ruup when you do this. Also in training you can get really good at feeling the face smush coming, recognizing it, and driving your head in, through it, before it gets a good leverage point on your jaw.

Honestly, I would ask Paul Banasiak - https://web.facebook.com/MuayThaiTechnicianOfficial/ I forget his weight, but he's a pretty big guy by Thai standards. He's lived and fought out of Koh Phangan, then in Chiang Mai and I think he's now in Phuket. Several years of trying to find fights at his weight, and also a life-style in a city that is enjoyable and sustainable. At the larger weight classes he probably has the most experience on the variety of opportunities that are available.

You might also want to look into the Golden Kick, an older school version of the Thai Kick. Sylvie's article on it, with lots of video, is here: https://8limbsus.com/muay-thai-thailand/golden-kick-how-to-improve-your-thai-kick The reason I mention this is because the Golden Kick has two movements in it (they become one, once you are super proficient, but two in the beginning), it might help you, as you mention that this happens when you are tired. You might feel more control and awareness of your distance, after the rising of the leg, just as you turn over your hip. An idea anyways. Best of luck!

In almost all cases it really honestly takes about 5 fights or so before you can even get a sense of what is going on. Your first fight is usually a complete blur. The most important things in first fights are usually to relax your breathing (unconsciously holding your breath for strikes, or when attacked will gas you, even when in good condition), and to protect yourself. The whole reason for first fights is to get to your second fight, and so on. Sounds like you did great.

I will also say that often when we talk about "Thai" perspectives of sport, which we read as Asian, or uniquely Thai - things such as Narrative Scoring Structure, emphasizing dominance over aggression in scoring, the importance of how you "wear a strike" - these things are not uniquely Thai. We have lots of corresponding aspects in Western culture as well. When talking about the aura of greatness in Thailand, which does have Buddhistic roots, we can find elements of the same in the West. Mayweather is a great example. Yes, there persist all kinds of criticism of him and his perfect record, how he protected himself, dodged Pacquiao until both were old men, etc. But...along with Mayweather comes an aura that goes beyond his fighting in the ring, he's a man who set his own destiny, was able to build an empire, rolling in cash, dodge who he wanted to dodge. There is this larger sense that HE was the Man. It doesn't play out in the exact same way it does in Thailand, but similar things are operating. You get the same with Jordan, who beyond his stats, his game winning shots, was also a very manufactured persona. People may criticize him via this manufactured nature, how the NBA changed the rules for his sake, giving him advantages that past greats did not have...but ironically enough these kinds of critiques (though true), can actually work to further intensify his greatness, giving everyone the sense that he bent history around himself, almost gravitationally. This is only to say, when we think across cultures it is important to isolate themes that do not correspond to our own, especially our dominant theme, but, often it is a second move of insight-fullness to then recognize that these seemingly unique or differing themes do have correspondence within our own culture, often in a minor but still vital way.

Sylvie has a recommended gym thread you can check out here: Gyms run around 9,000-10,000 baht per month.

We haven't published Arjan Pramod's list yet, but I do think in this specific case he was thinking of his own fighter's greatness, how Namkabuan not only dominated his weight class, but also was an international ambassador, fighting in Australia, etc. And this led him to think of Buakaw. But even the bare inclusion of Buakaw in the list (no other person we have polled would have put him anywhere near there), points to elements of Thai thinking that often are lost to the West.

You can also interact on this thought stream on Twitter, here is the thread:

There is an element of That conception of "Greatness" that produces lots of misunderstanding in westerners. We in the west see "great" as a kind of technical thing, like you could extract a fighter out of their circumstances, out of history & download him as a "player". Thais instead do not divorce the fighter from the big purses they make, the powerful promoters or gyms that back them, the influences they have over others. "Famous" & "popular" are the same word in Thai. It means that there is an "aura". I say this because when we asked one of the greatest Golden Age Krus, Arjan Pramod, who his 5 greatest fighters of all Time were, he listed Buakaw as 4th. This is a joke between Muay Thai nerds. The surest sign that you don't know Muay Thai at all is putting Buakaw on a list. But he put him there because of his impact, his ambassadorship to Japan & the West. It wasn't about skill, it's about history. I'm still shaking my head about it, but its because I don't understand - fully - just how Thais see greatness. I think this comes from a deeper concept of "power" (Amnat) & charisma "ittiphon" that ultimately lies within spiritual karma. Those who have favorable circumstances have aura, and are in a way blessed. Samart had a powerful gym & connections & fought down at times forcing more advantageous matchups. For us it might be a critique of his Greatness. But for many Thais these advantages actually add to the substance of a fighter, and are not a detraction. His aura is composed not only of his fighting skills, his character, but everything drawn around it. His situation. Sure, people will quietly detract, make complaints or criticisms. But there is still a strong current of admiration. It is something like being *blessed*. Yodkhunpon once was talking to Sylvie about her drive to one day fight at Lumpinee Stadium. He didn't understand. The reason to fight at Lumpinee was so you could become *famous* (which includes idea of popularity & respect), to have an aura. He told her: You are already famous. It made no sense to him to do the work to have the aura, if you already have it. It's just his perception, but here was a guy who was a devastating fighter during his time, so many battles, but he never got the *aura*, the shine. He didn't have the power behind him to be made into something. I think this was what was behind Arjan Pramod putting Buakaw on his list, and part of why Thais see the substance of greatness quite differently than we do. It's why Dieselnoi will always be the lessor fighter than Samart, despite beating him. Yes, there are counter thoughts & arguments, ideas about who is a *real* fighter, but this stream of authentic admiration remains.

Middle kicks are very likely rewarded in Muay Thai because they are all about demonstrating control of space. They penetrate the central zone and demonstrate balance. If you control the central zone of the fighting space, theoretically, you then should be able to control the fight, which also means being better able to set up for knockouts, if that's what you are looking for. You see this principle in all kinds of sports and strategic games. Defense up the middle in Baseball. Control the center of the board in Chess, etc. But knockouts stemming from that control are generally not the aim in Thailand's Muay Thai.... You get legends of the sport with over 200 fights and only a handful of KOs. It's not about trying to finish the fight as fast as you can. There are lots of reasons for this, but one of the is that Muay Thai in Thailand is about becoming truly dominant over the fighting space - not flashing a (perhaps) lucky shot that is going to look great in highlight reels. It means - at least to me - that it's about building a deeper skill set, and a much more sophisticated approach to fighting.

Great cinematographer Roger Deakins (he has a brilliant podcast which covers so many aspects of filmmaking) say one of the things he does when he shoots digital, which is all the time now, is that is turns his monitors to black and white while shooting. So interesting, for a cinematographer who is known for his color use. Once he sets his color/lighting, he just wants B&W.

I agree with this. It isolates the form, the mechanics/dynamics beautifully, but it also does something else as well - or at least has the potential to. Photographer Harry Gruyaert noted, in his move from black and white to color, that black & white tends to put the person at the center, their psychology, cut out away from the ground, because color ceases to become an organizing principle. This makes black & white even stronger for Muay Thai because it cuts with both blades of the scissor (form/dynamic and personhood), which can bring out a lot of what Muay Thai is ultimately valuable for. Those kinds of stories. I say this about without adding the layers of historical genre styles in B&W, those for instance in boxing (classic photos), and in cinema, which also can provide a commentary and a grammar woven into what is depicted, perhaps more readily than color.

What an interesting artistic coincidence, I just put up my own film short sharing very similar aesthetics a few weeks after you. I was inspired by watching the film Blancanieves I think, wanting those very inky blacks. Very cool that you were thinking along the same vibe: Our podcast on the film: If Interested, for a while now I've been pretty obsessed with bringing the deep blacks of Film Noir to Muay Thai, writing about that here:

I do doubt that the King was referencing Muay Thai in any way, from what you describe. But there is a long tradition of Thai Royalty being the protector and developer of Muay Thai. Muay Thai is a very important part of Thai National identity. You can read up on the history of Thai Nationalism in this excellent article: https://8limbsus.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Muay-Thai-Inventing-Tradition-for-a-National-Symbol-Peter-Vail.pdf

Thank you for recognizing this. It's one of the hardest parts, especially for someone who has been inherently shy much of her life. We've felt from the very beginning an obligation to put it out there, to share the knowledge and the perspective, but it's been a balancing act, because at the same time Sylvie is developing to become a fighter, a great fighter, so the social web of relations isn't always helpful in that. We've just tried to be very nose-to-the-grindstone on this, and keep putting out more high quality thought, documentation, art. Everything...

I know it may be hard to believe because of the way people in the west treat film and video, but its actually a very small part of what is going on. Looking at her fights again, at the very best, might give her confidence that certain work she is putting in is paying off a bit, but 99% of what she is doing with her fight commentary is just reliving the event for the benefit of others. She's really just trying to relay everything that mattered. Any kind of advice from video from others is pretty minor, and very often advice from the outside can be misplaced, because they just don't understand (often) how Sylvie has to fight to win, given the circumstances of how her opponents fight her. Female Thai fighters don't fight like male stadium fighters, so much of the outside advice, if from a particular fight video, is based on classic fighting tendencies which are much harder to apply in the female fight scene. I would say the fight video experiences are way less than .1% of a benefit. On the other hand, her commentary done on all her Muay Thai Library film sessions is very helpful. It allows her to isolate more objectively, the lessons and important bits, and incorporate them in her training. For instance just looking at her bag work with Wangchannoi, objectively, got her to really radically change how she did bagwork recently. This is actually changing in real time in Thai culture, but there is a very long stigma of the living scene of Muay Thai in Thailand as low-class, dirty, wrong-side-of-the-tracks. Middle class families would enroll their kids in TKD classes, because it isn't shirtless, and they have nice clean white uniforms, for instance. But in the last 5 years or so gyms, and Muay Thai gyms, have been branding themselves much more to the upper classes in cities, as a way to stay fit for women, so the classic stigma is shifting. It also has to be said that while Muay Thai has had a class stigma, it also, ideologically, has been very important for Thai Nationalism and identity. So Thai victories, especially vs foreigners, is much esteemed and glorified. Perhaps the same thing could be seen, in parallel, with western boxing, which had a history of lower-class and disreputable participation, but boxing victories were celebrated at a very high level. There is a very strong moralistic slant against gamblers and gambling. Gambling is largely illegal throughout the country, for moral reasons. And in Thailand it is only lawful at specific stadia. That being said, the country is quite superstitious and the government lottery (and various black market lotteries) is a huge phenomena. But Muay Thai does suffer socially from its gambling stigma. We've covered this in detail in the Muay Thai Bones podcasts, I think. Clinch has recovered in the sport, but it's place in the sport is less secure than what might be widely thought. I'm not really sure how much COVID will effect Muay Thai, a large part of that is how many surges of infection take place, and how effective the vaccine is. Muay Thai in Thailand finds itself in a difficult position. Because it is socially disreputable to some degree, and the first COVID cluster in Thailand came around Lumpinee (the 2nd one now, notably, has oriented now around an illegal casino), Muay Thai has to be super conservative in relation to COVID. It has an uphill PR problem. The reason why this is so complex is that Thailand's economy is heavily dependent on tourism, so while Thailand has had an amazingly good COVID safety record, one of the best in the world, there is great pressure to open up to tourists soon, faster than say a tourism competitor like Vietnam. Muay Thai in Bangkok and elsewhere is linked to tourism, so there is some risk in how and when the country will open up, which could cause long term problems with Muay Thai if things go wrong.

I'm uncovering for myself, just tracing the line of contrast in Noir back through time, that German Expressionism in film (this I knew about), but also silent film whites play role in a Muay Noir aesthetic for me. This was really brought to bare in the film Blancanieves (Snow White), which is a 2012 homage to the silent films of Europe. It's just a beautiful film, and for me tickles so much of what Noir also carries. Here are a series of still caps I took from the film to give you an idea of what I see: A Muay Noir aesthetic can draw on the morality tale tradition of German Expressionism, which you find in this film, and which the Noir Universe also absorbed.

Wow, incredible Jim!

Jesus. Not normal.

I'll try to answer this is some detail, there are some great questions in there. I don't believe there is a woman alive who has fought as much as Sylvie has, Thai or non-Thai, in any combat sport. The primary reason we took the approach of fighting so much is that Sylvie was starting later in life, so we took the "Thai way" of how young fighters grew in the sport. In Thailand when you are young you learn BY fighting, and you fight a lot. You fight every sort of opponent, and the quality of the matchups is governed, usually, by gambling interests. But, Thais do not continue fighting in this way. It's a growing process, but as soon as you start getting a name Thais tend to fight less often, in more controlled matchups, usually looking for other Thais that they can beat (forcing favorable matchups for themselves, winning beats) or names they can beat to build their reputation. For males this means the Bangkok Stadium circuit, for females it means the side-bet circuit. To keep fighting and fighting and fighting, as Sylvie does, as a Thai would mean not having the leverage to force favorable matchups, and building your "nobody can beat me" reputation. As to the number of fights that Sylvie's opponents typically have, this varies of course, she's fought over 150 opponents. Some have fight numbers in the 100s or 200s (famous World Champion opponents like Thanonchanok or Loma), most probably have fight totals around 75 or so. There are a lot of cliché ideas about Thai fighters that float about, that they are impoverished, fight for rice, or are forced into fighting in some ways. Yes, there are examples, but a lot of the pictures of Thai fighters out there are very broad brush, and are part of a exoticism of Thailand from the West. Not all Thai fighters (and I'll guess that we can just talk about female Thai fighters) start at a very early age. Some may start in their early teens. Not all are from poor family, many come from what we may call urbran middle class families, some even from more upperclass families (though there can be stigma with the sport). As to training regimes, I don't think there is a fighter in the world, male or female, Western or Thai, who trains like Sylvie. She's on her own path, reaching for something that isn't really in the sport. Thai female opponents are varied. Some may have started from a very young age and achieved fight brilliance and even World Championship status by the time they are 15, but then begin to coast because they have superior skills, accolades, and train rather modestly, especially when compared to their western opponents - I think someone like Thanonchanok is like that. Fighting at a World class level for 7 years or so, many Thai female fighters become slack, just when they are hitting their physical prime. There is no ascending "fight scene" of great opponents and also financial incentive to keep them pushing their development hard. Just another belt to win once in a while. Then there are a whole host of female Thai fighters who fight out of Sports Schools. They train together, while also going to school, fight each other in female fight scenes, compete for stadium belts, try to get on televised higher paying shows, fight for World titles, etc. Their training seems to be regular, but not super high level. They are generally highly skilled, usually quite experienced fighters (sometimes fighting as much as once a week) in reasonably athletic shape, trying to improve themselves. They can be from more middle class families. And then there are fighters who are younger but are rising stars that come out of the side-bet scene. They are super skilled, are beating all the top fighters of the province they are from, usually have around 70 fights or so. Often these fighters are in very good physical shape because they are prize fighters, and they may be fighting at the peak of their career. Very few of Sylvie's opponents (as far as we can understand) are "economically depending on their prize money" in the more stereotypical sense of how that is imagined. They largely are fighting for their name, their pride, their position in the scene, many with hopes for dreams like getting on the National Team, which can be quite lucrative. There is such variety of opponent, it's hard to generalize, but that's the sense we get. Some treat it as a vocation, or a potential vocation, but there is such a lack of a progressive female fight scene, in the sense males have, the way forward is unsure. Something that is also pretty unique in Sylvie's opponents is that 95% of them Sylvie doesn't even pick. We just find dependable promotions that will be a source for a volume of fights, and don't even give much voice (or even thought) about whatever opponent they choose for her. Most fighter handlers are angling for advantages, and reasonably so - part of the fight game is gaining the leverage and authority to shape matchups -, but Sylvie just goes with whatever the promoter chooses. We ask: What is the weight, and what is her name (just to see if she's fought her before), and that is about it. Promoters really like Sylvie for this reason, she's a very low friction fighter, willing to take disadvantages. Sylvie is something of a Unicorn of a fighter in Thailand. Many of the things she's become known for are just almost bizarre to Thais. She fights all over the country, in a variety of venues and promotions, whereas most fighters try to lock into lucrative single promotional, or powerful handles. Whereas most top Thai fighters quibble about 1 or 2 kg differences, Sylvie regularly takes on huge weight advantages even versus the best female Thai fighters in the country. She'll give up 5 kg, 7 kg to a literal World Champion. This just does not compute to Thais. And she wins (not always, but often). She got on the scale for a side bet fight, maybe a year ago, vs someone who is now the hottest Thai female fighter in Thailand, and was 5 kg lighter (after her opponent had cut), and their eyes practically fell out of their head. It's just not how it is done. Sylvie lost that fight, we are seeking a rematch, but it shows just out outside the lines Sylvie fights. Everyone knows Sylvie's fighting style. In stadia where she has fought a lot, like Thapae Stadium in Chiang Mai, all the gamblers know what she's going to do. They match up huge weight disadvantages, and honestly the refs there break the clinch very quickly on her to make the match as exciting as possible, with both opponents having a chance. As to being feared, its really hard to know. She fights up so often, and on Thai television, it must create an aura. After Sylvie recently fought and beat a top fighter in the South (one of the very few she's fought her own weight), her opponent sat with her in the audience for a while, and told her nobody can beat her in the South. I pretty much know for sure that the present day WBC #1 ranked and WPMF World Champion near Sylvie's weight (a Thai) would never fight Sylvie, and probably for good reason. But, Thais also love coming after fighters with big reputations too, so there are always opponents. I think her reputation is that nobody at her weight in Thailand could beat her, but if fighting up 2 or 3 weight classes would be quite a scrap. Oh, Jomkwan was definitely ok. She's one of the best (underrated) fighters in the world. She was walking around a few minutes later, and was cornering for a teammate. Nong Benz was ok too. Almost all of Sylvie's T/KO s are knee knockouts, which means either a liver shot or just taking someone's breath away. These aren't particularly damaging, but they can shut you down for a few minutes. The rate of her knockouts is pretty unusual in Thailand where points usually decide fights, especially given how much weight she gives up.

Recording #37.mp4 One of the most compelling influences for Muay Thai photography can come from cinema. Instead of the "sports reporter" history of fight photography, I believe we should draw on the much wider language of cinematic expression. It's roots lie very deep in our subconscious, and evocations of light and color languages open up worlds of the possible when trying to grasp not only a sport, but a culture. That is one reason why I've been studying the films (and thinking) of cinematographer Roger Deakins. His Sicario, Blade Runner 2049, No Country for Old Men have a lot to teach and share. What is cool is that Roger Deakins has a podcast with his wife James, so it isn't just on the level of images that one can dialogue with him. One of the things that he makes clear is that he himself is inspired by still photographers, and one in particular he keeps returning to...Alex Webb. Above his a collection of his images from The Suffering of Light. Deakins is clearly taken by what he imagines is the highly constructed nature of Alex Webb's frames. So much tension, juxtaposition, and layering. You can see all of it above, frames within frames, staggering of space. This is what was thinking of when I advocated for wide-lens photography for Muay Thai, the idea of spatial, situational inclusion, instead of just the "hero frame", as Brad Pitt calls it. What Alex invites is the staggering of space, so that the eye pinballs through the frame, forward and back. Many of his photos are beautifully jagged. What is kind of interesting is how Deakins mis-imagines Webb's process, something he has thought long and hard about in his own artist fantasy. He seemed to picture Webb being very precise, kind of constructing the frame in advance, and then squeezing off a few precious photos, whereas Webb insists that he shoots prodigiously, lots and lots of frames, and that he only senses the possibility of the shot. It isn't until he looks later at what he has does he fully know if he got it. This is just a very interesting juxtaposition of influences. Deakins (cinematographically) looks at the finished project of Webb's (still photography) process, inspired by that perfect balance of tension, space and color, and then (I imagine) goes about constructing his own shots, in a much more controlled way. This seems like the inverse relationship between still photography (street) and cinematography. Webb using the frame to hunt, using his developed instincts, where as Deakins builds the frame in his mind, and then duplicates it in (dynamic) diaoramic practice. You can listen to their discussion here: https://www.rogerdeakins.com/team-deakins-podcast/episode-30-alex-webb-stills-photographer/

I really like this photo treatment of photographer Walt Zink. One of the challenges of selective color is connecting the color aesthetically to the rest of the lighting of the photo. A lot of time for me it can be jarring, taking me out of the photo, but in photos like these there is a real community of color that not only creates focus, but also aura. You get the continuity of tone, the feeling of adornment, that Old School atmosphere of parchment maybe. Very cool.

There is great variability in this, but this answer by Tyler on a related thread is the best I've seen on the Internet, from someone who lived on budget for some time: