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Kevin — this is beautifully written and profoundly resonates with what we are trying to protect. At our gym in Pai, Thailand — led by Kru Sittiphong (Eminent Air, Bangkok) — we often find ourselves discussing this exact tension. The split you describe between aggression as war and tradition as festival maps directly onto the current shift happening in Muay Thai today, especially in the growing clash between Muay Farang and traditional Muay Femur. So many Westerners arrive here asking for two sessions a day, intense sparring, and "hard training" to burn through their fire. They believe output equals progress — but they miss that in Thai Muay Thai, form comes before fire. As Kru says, “If no one corrects your technique, you're just burning energy and money.” You can train for years and still lack timing, balance, and control if no one slows you down. He calls this rush-to-power style "Muay Farang." Not in judgment — but as a cultural observation. It’s mechanical. It’s linear. It seeks transformation through depletion, rather than refinement. It forgets the smile in the sparring ring. The mutual game. The moment when two fighters laugh and say, “You got me.” That ease is the solarity. That’s the festival. Lerdsilla, Saenchai — we show students how they move not to win but to shine. Their movement is gift, not dominance. We see this in our students too — that knife’s edge between aggression and release. Some say they want to spar to “let out the fire.” But this isn’t the Thai way. Not really. Not the artful way. Real Thai Muay Thai is not made in war. It’s made in play, in rhythm, in control, in beauty. Muay Thai was born out of community, not conquest. The rings were surrounded by farmers, not fighters. And even now, the countryside promotions like Pai Fight Night are pushing back against the gambling, the scoring controversies, the drift toward aggressive spectacle. They are preserving Muay Thai as cultural heritage — as festival, as you so eloquently say. Even the structure of Thai training reflects this longevity: one thoughtful session a day, not burnout. Recovery built in. Years spent mastering balance before layering in power. It's a slow art. A patient art. It cannot be "hacked." And it cannot be copied in systems that don't understand its roots. So yes — we’re witnessing a shift. And some, like Samart Payakaroon, are trying to protect the tradition. Others, like the Muay Femur stylist who left ONE Championship, are quietly walking away from the pressure to perform brutality over brilliance. We believe this conversation matters deeply — and must continue. Thank you for holding space for it, — Jennifer & Kru Sittiphong Sittiphong Muay Thai - Technical Muay Femur Training Pai, Thailand

What many do not realize is that ONE has so thoroughly commandeered the social media ecosystem of Muay Thai in Thailand (quite consciously, as part of its marketing approach, absorbing trad social media accounts, controlling messaging across all platforms through various systematically means...and quite brilliantly I would say), that many, many New Gen Muay Thai fans in Thailand, who speak no English at all, now have bought 100% into the ONE Entertainment full power smash aesthetic. Demographically much of it is somewhat a new fan base for Muay Thai, but its very vocal in SoMe post comments, and has influenced the older online gen as well. What we in the West are drawn to in traditional Muay Thai is now is ardently being pushed against by a segment of Thai fandom now, even in the trad ruleset. There is a kind of tug-of-war now between the traditional values of superior fighting and the new International smash values, and hybrid promotions like RWS are kind of caught right in the middle, but seemingly for now siding with trad values for the most part. It does mean though that some trad fighters are just going to go in there and smash on trad cards, which is kind of amazing because this change has occurred in only a few short years.

A Battle of Affects I've argued that the highly Westernized (Globalized) affect expression in ONE and other Entertainment Muay Thai, typified in the Scream face you'll see in fight posters (which sometimes ironically looks like a yawn) and in post fight celebration, expressing aggro values that work against the traditional affects of Thailand's trad Muay Thai, a fighting art that comes out of Buddhistic culture largely organized around self-control...(that's a mouthful!) is attempting to invert Muay Thai's relationship to violence itself. It is interesting that spreading in the trad circuit is this mindfulness/meditative post-fight victory pose, an example of which is here, the young fighter with his trainer. This is no small thing because arguably culture is made up of prescriptions of "how you should feel", largely expressed in idealized body language and facial expression. When you change that prescription, in fact inverting, you are challenging the main messages of culture itself. One of the gifts of Thailand's traditional Muay Thai, I have discussed, is that it provides a different affectual understanding of violence itself, which then cashes out in simply more effective fighting in the ring. Something of a gift to a world that is more and more oriented toward rage and outrage.

above, festival fight in Pattaya Just some thoughts and observations on the overall state of Thailand's Muay Thai. Not an expert opinion, just an informed perspective. The title of this piece may sound absurd, or maybe for some just an exaggeration, but there is among some long time fans who have watched a lot of Muay Thai in Thailand the sense that the only Muay Thai worth watching in Thailand now, in terms of actual skill, is Muay Dek, the Muay Thai of Thai youth. This piece about why that may be so. There is a sense that Muay Thai has been stretched now in two directions. You have Bangkok stadia, gambling driven traditional Muay Thai, supposedly the acme of the country's traditional talent, and you have Entertainment Muay Thai (with various versions of itself), a Muay Thai that is bent towards - and in many cases just FOR - the foreigner. If I was to really generalize between the two, one line of Muay Thai heads toward more "technical" point fighting and fight management (trad stadium Muay Thai), fights where fighters and corners are always responding to shifting gambling odds, and on the other hand a Muay Thai (in the extreme case of ONE) which is all about combos, aggression and offensive risk taking, emphasizing trades in the pocket and knockouts. The problem is, neither trajectory is very skilled (at least in the historical sense of Thailand's greatly skilled fighters). Muay Thai has become increasingly deskilled, along these two trending branches. And, if you mostly watch one of the two, you might not have noticed the deskilled aspects, because this is just the "new normal", and competition always produces winners who seem in comparison to others, quite skilled. It's only when you take the wider view, not only of the history and greatness of the sport, but also of the present state of Muay Thai itself, importantly including Muay Dek, do you see the drop in skill in adult fighting...as each promotional style squeezes out certain qualities from their fighters, cutting off their full, expressive development. Even with big sidebets on fights (gambling), and seemingly lots of pressure, Muay Dek fighters fight with great freedom. Some of this is a mystery why this is lost, but what follows is a sketch of how Muay Dek fighters change and become limited once they reach a certain age. Why Are the Muay Dek Fighters the Best Muay Thai Fighters in Thailand? If you just watch a few fights, and you have an eye for it, you'll see it. In a word, freedom. In another word, expressiveness. And still an third, sanae (charm, charisma, a key component in Thai traditional scoring). The Muay Thai of the Golden Age (1980s-1997) was filled with highly skilled, very well-rounded, but importantly very expressive fighters, fighters who fought with experimentation who were constantly adjusting to their opponent, drawing on styles and tactics that could in shifts change the outcomes of fights. And in fighting in that way that exuded personality, uniqueness and charm...aura. Much of this quality, and flexibility is gone from Thailand's Muay Thai, but in today's Muay Dek some of it is really still there. Its only when these fighters get to a certain age...maybe 15-16, that it starts to become squeezed out. In the Muay Dek even of today you get fighters who are regulating their energies with great subtitle, not swinging between overt passivity or over-aggression, fighters engage more continuously in the classic style, with fewer ref breaks, less stalling, fighters drawing out extended phrasing and highly technical defensive stretches that endure. A greater variety of weapons, and even transitions between fighting styles or a shifting of tactics, to solve what is happening in the fight, a kind of cerebral aesthetic that older fighters seem to have lost the capacity for. At the highest levels of Muay Dek youth fighting you see dimensionality...and personality. There is much less nibbling at leads. Instead one sees that leads are vied for more or less continually, and expanded when achieved, without devolving into hyper-aggressive mashing. I'm going to leave Entertainment Muay Thai to the side for now, especially ONE which is its own particular excessive exaggeration, mostly because its kind of obvious how promotional hype, booking dynamics, rule-sets and bonuses shape fighters to fight in a certain more limited way. What many may not realize is that trad Muay Thai in the stadia also forces fighters to fight in a certain way, in many cases simplifying or pairing down what they had been capable of when developing as youths. I'm going to say "gambling" here, but gambling is not the boogieman monster that a lot of online commentary makes it out to be. Gambling in Muay Thai is essential to its form, in fact I don't think Thailand's Muay Thai would have reached the complexity of its art without ubiquitous gambling, all the way down to the 1,000s and 1,000s of villages and provincial fight cards, its ecosystem of fighting, which have gone on for maybe centuries. Some of the discussion of the importance of gambling I discuss speculatively here: above, festival fight in Buriram The problem isn't "gambling" per se, but rather that in the larger venues in Bangkok because of the changing (eroding) demographics of Muay Thai the shift of economic power to big gyms, and the dwindling talent pool, the powerful forces of gambling interests have lost proportion, and now have outsized impact. There are not enough counter-balancing forces to keep gambling's historically important role in Muay Thai's creativity, in check. These have worn away, leaving gambling as too prominent. But, I'm not talking about corruption here (which everyone loves to turn to with an infinite finger of blame). I'm actually talking about the way in which Muay Thai is traditionally fought with fighters responding in a live sense to the shifting odds of the audience. Online gambling has complicated this more human, social dimension of the sport, abstracting it to 1,000s or 10,000s of people of varying interests and even knowledge, on their mobile phones. The demographic of "who" gambles has changed, and increasingly people are gambling who have less knowledge about the sport. They'll place a bet on Muay Thai just as they'll place a bet on a football game. Again, let's bracket, let's put the online nature of gambling to the side, and just talk about the traditional relationship between live fighting and live in-person gambling in the stadia. The fighters are fighting TO the odds. The odds are the "score" of the fight, just like in basketball you could look up to a scoreboard and see the score of the game, in Muay Thai you can look to the odds and (roughly!) know the score of the fight. There may be distortion in the odds, whales and their factions of one sort of another may be putting their thumb on the scale, but there is a symbiotic discourse happening between live gambling and the fighters (and their corners). Some of this traditionally has produced great complexity of skills, the ability of fighters to not just "win" the fight in terms of points, but also manage the fight, in stretches, shaping narratives. But today, the exact opposite is happening. Gambling is deskilling traditional Muay Thai, in large part because the small gyms of Thailand - the gyms that actually grow all the fighters, feeding the talent of Bangkok - have been eroding. Not only have they been disappearing (there are far, far fewer of them), those that exist still have no political power in the socio-economics of the sport. When fighters of small gyms enter the gambling rings of Bangkok, not only are they doing so on a very fragile line of income, often losing money to even bring their fighters down, they can no longer bet big on their fighters to supplement fight pay. Betting on your own fighter was once an entire secondary economy which grew small gyms and encouraged them to create superior talents. If you had a top fighter he could be a big earner not only for the gym, but also all the padmen krus in it, aside from fight pay. Because small gyms have lost power overall, political power, they have to live at the margins, which means their fighters have to fight extremely conservatively so as to not be blamed if their fighter loses. They need the backing of the social circles of gamblers. If you lost, it can't be because you took a risk. And because big gyms are going to win (force through political weight) close fights, small gyms have to practically walk on egg-shells in the way that their fighters fight. Generally: get a small lead...and once you have that lead protect it at all costs. Don't do anything risky to expand the lead. And, because small leads are easily lost, fights often turn into a series of nibblings, with both fighters protecting their tiny leads, back and forth. They aren't trying to win, they are trying not to lose. This form of fighting has transmitted itself to big gyms, is the new traditional form of fighting. Don't risk blame. This aspect of "not my fault", "defend a small lead, take it to the end of the fight if you can (5th round), make it close enough and then blame politics or corruption if you lose" has become a normalized style of traditional fighting, across venues among adults. Some of this is because the current state is an out of proportion exaggeration of the truth that traditional Muay Thai fighting always has been expressive of political powers and social capital struggle in hierarchies outside of the ring. Fighters ARE part of and in the ring express social networks. This is part of Muay Thai's social dimension and cultural anchoring. It's just that with the erosion of the powers of small gyms, the dilution of the talent pool, the hoarding of limited talent, has pushed this aspect too hard, and distorted the sport, draining it of skills and its renown complexity. To give a small anecdotal example of how this deskilling works, I remember when a smallish gym was training a fighter, and in padwork the fighter switched to southpaw, just experimentally. No! The answer came back from the kru, and they related a story from the past when one of the gym's fighters had switched to southpaw in a fight and lost. The gamblers who bet on him were furious. He had "blown" the fight. The gym had lost face. From this single event, probably a fight not of much consequence, the gym now forbade switching. It could cost you a fight. An entire branch of Muay Thai (that of switching) was cut off from that gym's fighters...forever. Not only in terms of that technical branch of development, the whole spirit of experimentation and creativity was closed off. The goal was: get a lead...keep it. Don't develop a style that is complex, or varied. Don't do anything in a fight that IF you lose, the gamblers who backed you will blame you and the gym for. This is deskilling. one reason why Thai fighters have been the best in the world isn't just that they have trained and fought young. It's also that they have been at the apron of fights, watched the shape of the traditional aesthetic, socially absorbing a great deal of fight knowledge. At the rope, even as cornermen or impromtu coaches. Its not just the doing, its the participation in the Form of Life that is traditional Muay Thai, bringing a depth of IQ. As small gyms and kaimuay across the country lose power in Bangkok, social power, they have to exist in very narrow economic margins, which means that technique wise their fighters have to fight in very narrow lanes. The spontaneous and the creative is too risky, because gyms don't want to be blamed. Fighters cannot explore or develop new ways of winning fights. There is a secondary dimension in this, as the downfall of the Thai kaimuay is told, which is IF a small gym does produce a particularly strong talent, this talent will not become a resource for the gym, adding honors to the gym (championship belts, etc), growing the gym through his presence. Instead, if you produce a talent this talent will be ostensibly stolen from you. Not outright stolen, but you will be pressured to "sell" their contract to a big Bangkok gym. This pressure will usually come from the fighter's parents, who want success and fame for their son, and the esteem of a bigger name, and it will come from within the hierarchies of the sport. The sale will happen. Instead of a developed talent adding to the richness of a gym's culture and growing their talent own pool of younger fighters who want to share in the glow of gym success, instead you'll be financially compensated with a contract sale. Some money in the pocket, to the gym owner, but not the kind of verdant growth a talent would have brought in the past, something that would shine across all the krus and padmen, and younger fighters in the kaimuay. And, fighters now are being extracted from small gyms younger and younger. The comparison is fruit being picked from trees more and more less ripe. Not only are fighters in general entering the Bangkok stadia with far less experience and development in the past, fighters are also being swept up by big gyms at a much higher rate, at an earlier state of their development. The ecosystem of the small gym, 100,000s of them, is being starved out. And its that ecosystem that historically had produced so much of the foundational complexity that gave Bangkok fighting so much of its renown diversity. Fighters that entered Bangkok stadia used to be much more complex and experienced, and then once they got there the complexity and experience of that scene increased and amplified them, spurred them to greater growth. Now, its the opposite. Arriving in a Bangkok stable may very well nullify your potential. We might add to this that the large big name gym stables of Bangkok today, that have swept up much of Thailand's diminishing promising talent, concentrating it, have become more like holding houses of that talent, and fighter factories for promotions, and less like developmental houses as old Bangkok gyms like Muangsurin, Thanikul, Pinsinchai, Dejrat, Sor Ploenjit had been, promotion favorites which maintained not only a kaimuay developmental creativity, but also more lasting connection with provincial sources. Muay Dek and Facing Power So, the good news is, despite all these forces against creativity, against small gym development, Thailand is still producing very high level Thai fighters from youth. These fighters fight with complexity and freedom, full of sanae, technical excellence, narrative control, quite different than their older counterparts who have learned to strip away their individuality attempting to preserve leads in gambling's stadium Muay Thai. I'm not sure what to account for this other than to believe that Thailand in its heart still maintains the aesthetics and richness that created the acme of the sport in the Golden Age, these qualities haven't been stamped out yet...it is only when fighters get to a certain maturity, when they are fighting for gamblers without a lot of social power themselves, protecting tiny leads, that they lose these qualities. They become deskilled. There is another element to the mystery of why these Muay Dek fighters lose their skills when they age. Kru Gai at Silk tells Sylvie: It's easier to be femeu when everyone is low weight, and nobody has power. Muay Dek fighters develop all this complexity because there is no "power" consequence for their experimentation at low weights. And one can see how this makes a serious amount of intuitional sense. Gamblers today favor more "power" in Muay Thai, so femeu fighters enter contexts where suddenly there are consequences that limit what you can do. But, if you take a moment to think about it, femeu fighting youth of the Golden Age also once they hit a certain age encountered "power" in opponents. But, instead of losing their skill sets at maturity, they actually grew as fighters, became more complex, more creative, more effective...against power. Someone like Karuhat was fighting up two weight classes in the 1990s, a very femeu fighter, against very powerful opponents. It's can't be that encountering the maturation of "power" is the thing that is shutting down the development of the youth, who have already developed so much prior. In fact, there seems a rough parallel between artful youth fighters of the Golden Age and now. Both of them hit this "wall" at a certain age. But in the Golden Age this accelerated their growth, today it stunts it, and even regresses it. I suspect it has to do with the overall conservative form of stadium gambling Muay Thai, the entire incentive and punishment system that produces a lot of tiny-lead chasing...and this goes back to the dis-empowerment and erosion of the small gyms that feed the sport, developing the fighters. The best fighters in all of Thailand are the Muay Dek fighters. It is the closest thing to a natural lineage with the greatness of the past. But right now...there is no way forward for them. No way for them to allow their expressiveness of character and technique to expand and not be disciplined into submission, dulled. They have to face the trad conservative ecosystem, or have to turn to the hyper-aggression of entertainment promotions, each of which robs them of a vocabulary of control and expression.

A lot of these thoughts of several years came together for me in side conversation with Arm of Muay Thai Testament Instagram who is looking to perhaps put together a project around Muay Dek fighters of today. I asked him if he could link some present Muay Dek fighters on the rise. This is what he wrote, posted with permission, posted in a series of replies: Strong Muay Dek Fighters Today 1. I was rewatching one kid this morning, as I do with all the kid fights that gets good reception, and this kid from some gym I've never heard of is so good femue. I think the gym is a new addition to Petchyindee's roster now. His name is Kaona Jor. Nopparat The part about Femue being easier to execute at lower weight is so true. Regarding the examples, I only really know the Petchyindee ones but here goes. In no particular order: 1. I was rewatching one kid this morning, as I do with all the kid fights that gets good reception, and this kid from some gym I've never heard of is so good femue. I think the gym is a new addition to Petchyindee's roster now. His name is Kaona Jor. Nopparat

This perspective is related to our manifesto of values and a priority on provincial fighting in Thailand.

The first fight between Poot Lorlek and Posai Sittiboonlert was recently uploaded to youtube. Posai is one of the earliest great Muay Khao fighters and influential to Dieselnoi, but there's very little footage of him. Poot is one of the GOATs and one of Posai's best wins, it's really cool to see how Posai's style looked against another elite fighter.

The championship fight was such a perfect illustration of "basics make champions." Not fancy, not showy, just incredibly solid foundations.

This was their fight back in August, where Marie pulled out the upset. I believe Marie was a last minute replacement in that fight. Useful to compare the fights.

This was just a really wonderful performance by Barbara, on so many levels, for the RWS Raja belt. You could feel her training in her fight, the way she stays within herself, at surface a very basic approach in terms of weapons/style, but underneath it all is a very important thing that not a lot of Westerns understand. You fight WITH Space. And she persistently denies Marie the space she wants, it ends up blowing up the fight, especially because she brought with her a beautiful very deep, head-sink clinch lock that Marie had no answer at all for (and that Raja let her work from, thank goodness). I have to watch the 2024 fight where Marie upset her in the clinch, but in this one Barbara was loaded for bear. This is the same recipe Sylvie used to beat so many, especially bigger opponents. You fight the Space, not the opponent. And you fight your fight with the belief "If I fight my fight, my way, the right way, you are going to have a very difficult time". I also loved Barbara's 20% - 40% power hands, just using them to touch and semi-pop Marie, to stress the space. No mindless, 100% power combos, actually seeing one's way in the space, and touching the opponent. This is just glorious controlled dern Muay Thai. Barbara's lock was so pure, so good - with a very deep head sink. She also had something that a lot of locking fighters fail to do. Once locked you walk your opponent. Not only do you pivot, or pull, you drag and also literally walk them so that their feet cannot set, so you tangle them, breaking the line of counter control. This is advanced, developed stuff and great to see. A lot of Thai stadium fighters of today don't even do this, its part of the eroding art of clinch. She also was very aware to drag Marie off the ropes so the ref break doesn't come and she could paint longer pictures of her lock dominance. Small touch with big awareness and effect. I don't really understand why Marie decided to fight this fight as a pure femeu fighter, back to the rope. I have to watch their first fight, but this plays exactly into Barbara's closing style. I imagine this is something trainers have been moving her toward? I'm not sure. A very cool, very worthy victory.

You could just pick a high-level gym in a European city, just live and train there for however long you want (a month?). Lots of gyms have morning and evening classes.

When I've come out to Thailand to train (and holiday!), I've always trained just once a week for the first one. It takes a while for the body to adjust, especially with the heat and/ or humidity, and gives me a chance to recover and explore. After that, it depends on how I feel/ what my goals are. Sometimes I've switched to twice a day, other times I haven't. If you're coming out to fight, you might want to. If it's just to train, improve and enjoy your stay, sometimes twice a day is a slog. Your decision... Chok dee.

This is the difficult thing, as Muay Thai shifts to a tourism economy. Things like defense and balance development (along with timing) are very hard to develop in fighters. It takes years, and in Thailand much of it comes out of the kaimuay tradition of fighters raised and fighting since boys. Fights traditionally were scored to favor these things and the training reflected their higher-level maturation. They became embedded in the culture, and the significance of Muay Thai in Thailand, part of its "Form of Life". Teaching them required a rich subculture (which today is highly eroded), and knowledge was passed down in a non-instructive way. As Muay Thai becomes turned towards "action" moments, and incorporates the lessor-skilled non-Thai, defensive and balance roots are increasingly not fed, and will starve. Non-Thais become trainers, not developed in the kaimuay tradition, favoring things they can teach well, especially memorized offensive combos (the new signature of Entertainment sport). The deeper enrichments of balance, control and defense pass away, and notably, as fighters are discouraged from displaying these things offense-first, trade-oriented attacks actually become MORE successful. It becomes a self-feeding system of entertainment.

There is a mode of perception that developing Thais have less of today. Ever notice how your Thai trainer can humorously imitated exactly what you are doing wrong in an exaggerated way? How they can cartoonize the body. This likely comes out of the mode of learning itself back in the day, the way that "ruup" (form) was a mode of education and emulation. Intelligent, affective projection and modeling, in play, was how the art was communicated. With today's attention spans, difference in motivations, and really radically different Gaze Economies in gyms, this channel of development is highly diminished. It's a lost skill of perception. The rationalization of the sport, the mechanization and abstraction of the sport certainly doesn't help in this, because the sense of embodied "aura" has been lost. And Westerners enter the sport largely from this other direction, meeting the new gen of Thais in the middle, far from where the sport and art developed and was passed between persons.

Wow, just had an amazing conversation with Karuhat, him telling us about a Saturday Boxing show put on by OneSongChai which featured lots of Thai Muay Thai stars, in which he fought twice, losing to Nungubon and to a Muangsurin fighter whose name escapes me. Most amazing is that he said that he had no special boxing training, in terms of kru, just mixing up boxing imitation training in his small Sor. Supawan gym, and Thai principles (he's not a bad boxer even today). He lost both fights, but he also said he WANTED to lose, because if you showed promise you would be drafted onto the Thai National team at the time (he even DID get drafted onto the team, it seems, fighting on am boxing fight on the King's Birthday vs a Cuban who was incredibly fast). Amateur boxing meant lots of hard training, but not a lot of fighting, and the pay was horrible. It was the last thing he wanted. He was a star in Muay Thai, had great kaduas, fought every month, honed his femeu style. Even pro boxing wasn't that lucrative because fighters only kept 30% of the purse (in Muay Thai it was 50%), and usually didn't fight that much. He said in one of his boxing fights he even stuck his head out of the ropes, he wanted so not to do this. I asked him who was on the Thai National team the brief time he was there and he said Sittichai, Jongsanan and Coban came to mind. I also asked why it was that fighters like him could just kind of develop boxing skills without specific boxing instruction, but Thai fighters today can have all kinds of boxing instruction, even from legends, and not develop the same level of boxing skills. He said "electronics"...all the distractions. The phones, etc. He said that you used to really pay attention, go to fights and emulate fighters, really absorb their powers and ways, imitate them in the gym, steal from everywhere, now Thai fighters are just doing what they are told and going to their phones. There is no attentiveness. I asked about Namkabuan (who is in one of these SongChai boxing fights below vs Chatchai), and his "nongki bounce" footwork which seemed unusual for Muay Thai, if that came from boxing. And he said that this is just normal Muay Thai to him. You can see some of that in this clip (really, look to the Muay Thai Library session to see so much more). When asked about where Namkabuan got his boxing (in the video below) he said Nongkipahayuth probably (Karuhat spent time up there because he was friends with Namphon). Maybe some from Muangsurin (a big boxing gym the brothers sometimes trained at), but he really didn't think knowing boxing as Namkabuan did was the result of special training.

The crazy thing about Namkabuan's 130 lb run at Lumpinee is that he told us that he was forced out of the 126 lb class because of his brother Namphon, so he went undefeated at 130 lbs instead (5 defenses). At 126 he would have been unfightable. In those years he was undefeated by Matee, Therdikiat and Jongsanan and Chatchai. Therdkiat himself was adopted into his gym. by the end of his run at 130 lbs he was giving up 10 lbs to Sakmongkol he was so unbeatable fighting up. The Lumpinee belts going off at 126 lbs during Namkabuan's 130 lb run.

Updated graphic for the above, some corrections. It was enjoyable digging around in the records, creating a new nice of achievement and talent. Jongrak Lukprabaht is the one figure up there with Kongtoranee and Chamuekpet with 12, a Golden Age fighter who fought on the Rajadamnern side of promotions. Notable perhaps that the elite Golden Age legends of Lumpinee and OneSongChai are largely absent. Either the belts were just to competitive on that side, or not fought frequently enough in that time frame (I assume). Probably a few names missing. Edit in, a new record found by Lev, Songkram Porpaoin with 5+8. He's just fighting for the same low-weight Rajadamnern title over and over, but it is still historic.

I also didn't realize how much of Yodsanklai's career, his fame, came from fighting at those much larger weight classes vs farang, and of course Contender. He really is one of those strong Thais that in the stadia had mixed success at the highest stadia level, but then grew into the world of international fighters where he established an immense reputation.

If I was answering this question today I think I'd expand the picture of Western Boxing's lasting influence, coming up through the decades, intensifying from the 1960s on, the Army and Police Boxing leagues and I'd also write about how television was just starting to Nationalize Thai consciousness, and the built out local television networks in the Provinces, local stadium hubs, the published rankings from the provinces and the wide-scale small kaimuay ecosystem (which has been almost completely eroded) which developed so many fighters for the stadia. Here you can see how deep the provincial rankings went in published Golden Age Muay Thai magazines, layers of talent outside of the Capital (originally posted to Reddit Here are some Golden Age related Muay Thai economics, as well:

Yodkhunpon visits PK Saenchai every Thursday, so you could be connected to him there, but I suspect the work you could do with him is much more thorough in private sessions in Pattaya, where he lives. Clinch is gyms is very hard to assess, because opportunity can depend on what size you are. If you are large bodied probably clinching with other Westerners would be what you require (but you'll not be training as much against skilled Thais, who know the art at a deeper level, which is important because a lot of clinch learning is through osmosis). We haven't been up to the (new) Lanna yet, but it does seem fighter-centric.

It's hard to assess these things because Muay Thai is so fragmented, but I think Ronachai may be the best Muay Thai fighter in Thailand.

The cover is above, you can download the full magazine in hi-res pdf: Muay Magazine - Nov. 8, 1968 ? - pdf download here Not sure about the year, inside there are cards posted from the year 1968 it seems. These magazines were sent to us by a supporting collector so we can share with others. Any informative comment or translation below is much appreciated.

The full hi-res PDF download here: Muay Magazine - Sept 9th, 1977 pdf download A supporter collector sent these pdfs so that we can share them with others, thank you

Lev brought to my attention Lankrung Kiatkriangkrai, who happens to be on the Holy Grail card, Christmas Eve of 1982, when Dieselnoi beat Samart. He's fighting Boonam Sor.Jarunee for the vacant 112 lb Rajadamnern title, and displays just a beautiful increasingly tempo'd style showing how boxing and the weapons of Muay Thai went together in early Golden Age. You can watch the fight below. He was a 1984 Olympic Boxer under the name Teeraporn Saengano. The good people of Muay Thai wikipedia, including Lev, have filled out his wikipedia page to give more anchorage of his fighting in history, a hugely important step in preserving the legacy of Muay Thai in Thailand. Without records we just have stories. You can find his wikipedia page here. This is some of his record context for the fight: Klaew Tanakul the promoter was a very big supporter of amateur Thai boxing, often financially lifting fighters up out of his own pocket, so its of no surprised that one of the best amateur boxers who was also a top Muay Thai fighter was featured on his promoted card. Video timestamped to about 25 minutes in if anything goes wrong. The fight starts very slow, but watch for his gradual uptempoing, his use of the jab, as he closes the distance round by round.

The three legends of Hapalang gym, 3 photos:

[someone posting that students shouldn't be allowed to spar without 6 months in Foundations Class] Not to respond too directly to the above statement, more to just this kind of advisement which is maybe common, but it just shows how far trad Muay Thai development was from today's class centric, out of Thailand (but probably in some parts of Thailand too) is. They are just two very different worlds and practices. Sparring, especially as it seems it was in the Golden Age...was part of foundations. Yes, there was a lot of grueling bag work or shadow boxing, but sparring playfully in space was part of young fighter development. It's not this extreme, but its a bit like saying you shouldn't get on a surf board until you have the fundamentals down for many months. The point was to assemble fundamentals in relationship to others. And, I certainly understand there are huge differences between these worlds, Westerners spar with different intents. It's only to point out that what Thais traditionally achieved was through very different sensibilities over what Muay Thai even was. It much more than this, I hope to finish an article on how trad Muay Thai is developed as social rite of passage way-of-life development, but at minimum there is a huge difference in concept in how skills should be acquired.

Wichannoi Porntawee is a fighter like no other in the history of Thailand's Muay Thai. While many in Anglophone Muay Thai conversations had hardly heard of him, when legends put him at the top of their picks for the greatest Muay Thai fighters in history we picked up our ears. He fought with a very boxing based, combination heavy foundation at close range, but had a highly developed style for controlling all ranges, often facing powerful fighters much bigger than himself, which for me is always a key to measuring greatness. He was nicknamed The Immortal Yodmuay (legendary nakmuay), and Dieselinoi, himself a GOAT candidate, called him "my teacher in the ring", Wichannoi the man who stopped Dieselnoi's 20+ fight win streak and meteoric rise to stardom, with back to back wins against the much taller fighter who was wrecking everyone. Watching his fights one night, one after the other, all 11 which exist, was an extraordinary experience, I think the most intense and education video watching experience I've had in my study of the art and sport. Below are my watching notes and each of the fights in chronological order. You can find Wichannoi's complete record on Wikipedia thanks to the great work Muay Thai wikipedia has been doing giving us all a foothold in history. This is a very good breakdown of the weapons and tendencies of Wichannoi by Ryan. It's excellent. Its well worth the time even though the illustrative gifs no longer exist. A summary of his style objectives: Some of what follows stems from my philosophy that fighting is a struggle over time and space, and less really a question of technical striking which is usually overemphasized when discussing the aims of a fighter. For me fighters are usually trying to get to the right space and at the right tempo where they hold superiority, and conversely preventing their opponent from doing the same. It's more of a temporal-cartographic concept of fighting. I usually watch with two questions: where do they want to get? What tempo do they want to be at? This is just what I see from a close watch of all 11 of Wichannoi's fights. It's not necessarily correct, just a sharing of what I saw and noted for myself. The notes weren't really for anyone else, but I share them because you might write your own when you watch. Wichannoi's primary objective in a fight is to get to a sweet spot, which is pretty deep in the pocket. Ideally he wants to stand there with his hands at ready, in a state of measuring. Normally a Muay Maat fighter would be punching their way into the pocket to get to this spot, but he's very different. He wants to stand there and measure, and the means by which he does this often with lots of low kicks, and mid- kicks at close range. He does this to stabilize the striking zone, and its really extraordinary to see it unfold. He wants to be the eye of the storm, and leave you standing in the storm. When he gets there like in the first Naraongnoi fight, he can be devastating. Of course his opponent isn't going to cooperate most of the time, so a lot of the early portions of fights are feel out rounds where he starts working on the legs from distance, with quick timed slapping kicks (you find this lineage of Muay Maat in Golden Age fighters like Takrowlek or Thongchai but in those cases hands and kicks are more joined together, Rambaa also deploys some of this outside fighting). These are all small bodied Muay Maat fighters. With Wichannoi its not really in-and-out fighting so much as that he's wearing down the edges of the pocket he wants to stand in later. He's taking down the outer walls of the citadel. On top of this quick kicking game he also can deploy a beautiful use of body jabs (highly unusual in the sport) and at times lots of boxing jab work to the head to compliment. These are part of his tempoing up. When he enters he wants the tempo going. In Wichannoi's case the fight has an arc and he is using all these weapons to get into a calm pocket - he actually wants to get to his sweetspot in a state of survey. Once he gets there he is using low kicks largely to freeze his opponent so he can measure, his hands waiting. But, what makes it so instructive is that many of these preserved fights he is fighting much larger, highly skilled fighters, so he can't really get to or stay in the spot. Against the giant Saensak Muangsurin he absolutely could not get there at all, and as soon as he was close enough he was smashed. Against Padejsuek, again too much power and size in front of him, he ended up having to manufacture a lead with backwards jabbing and body attacks, just to control Padejsuek enough to get to some state of equilibrium. He wants that equilibrium up close, he believes he can win it. And...he wants that tempo climbing up when he gets there (the lack of this tempoing was a fatal error in his 3rd fight vs Narongnoi who simply allowed him his spot, but at stagnant energy, and defended). As opponents that prevent him from achieving that sweetspot, in that failing you can see all the diverse skills he used to still try and get there, all the ways he tried to solve the problem. You see a great fighter exploring solutions - he isn't just doing one thing, like a cartoon of just lowkicking to get in and punch. And you learn a lot about other Silver Age fighters who are very adept at denying what a fighter wants to do. It is said of today's trad Muay Thai that nobody "solves" anything anymore. They have their specialty and they can either impose it or not. There is very little shifting of approaches. These fights contain so much solving and counter solving, especially from round to round, they are an education in themselves. Because Wichannoi is smaller in stature and relies heavily on his hands in combination if he can't get to his sweet spot he often has very few chances to win, especially against the top tier talent he was facing. So the joy is watching him invent solutions, even when they fail. He's a bit like a great clinch fighter who has to get to the clinch, the lock, the swim, and if he can't get there he may not win, but instead Wichannoi's an in-the-pocket equilibrium fighter, who wants to deploy his hands...on his time, under his terms. He's willing to trade, but that's not what he wants to do. He wants to stand there and look, up close, while whacking you with his lower body, and then get the ball rolling with his hands. And once its rolling, to keep it rolling hard imposing intimidation if he can. So many of his fights are filled with compromises with this, but that is where we get to see his extraordinary skill and improvisation. For me, once I realized the goal of it all, then all the pathways to that goal suddenly stood out. Everything he's doing from the outside isn't really to win the fight, and he's very skilled there. It's to prepare the ground for where he wants to be. Sometimes he can only be there for a second, like when he knocks out Pudpadnoi in their first match, sometimes its almost an entire round like with Narongnoi. Fights I'd say to watch as Don't Miss are that first Narongnoi fight, the fight vs Padejsuek which is a fight of incredible compromise and recalibration. His fight vs Sirimongkol is beautiful because he's facing a bigger boxer who is slick and long, and just refuses his spot. They are all actually really good at teaching the use of tempoing, of spatial goal setting, of combining level change and use of angle taking. He's just really a profound fighter who was regularly struggling vs size disparities. The Fights and Notes The notes that follow below are varied. Some of them were just personal notations so that I can recall later what were essential characteristics or turning points in a fight, so that I can recall them more easily. And some are quite lengthy moment to moment perceptions, where my understanding of Wichannoi is really expanding in real time. The watch started out as mostly the attempt to recall a particular fight that I enjoyed, but became a full blown fight after fight watch study attempting to assess and record just what was so special/unique about Wichannoi. What was he about? As notes I tried to clean them up but typos may be plentiful. vs Pudpadnoi Worawut 1st of 3 (1971-12-17) - southpaw, win a very femeu fight vs one of the great femeu fighters in history. Lots of quick low kicks and pivots, lots of positioning. Then in the 4th Wichannoi uncorks a quick 2 punch combo that lays Pudpadnoi out. The only time Wichannoi would beat Pudpadnoi in their 3 match ups. the fight: Huasai Sitthiboonlert (139 lbs, 1973-06-22) - orthodox, win fight waaay up, you can see the visible size difference. Early Wichannoi is just picking at the legs. Huasai look like a ponderous boxer with power. Huasai starts bringing the fight to him, a deep pivot out by Huasai puts him against the ropes. Wichannoi measures and puts him out with a powerful right hand just as Huasai opens up to punch, and even rips an elbow or a tight hook, just missing the falling Huasai. Huasai looks done laying their motionless, and then suddenly springs up energetically to life. Wichannoi pressures and pounces, never snuffing his punches, always liquid in range, landing combinations and putting Huasai down again. He's up again on the count the giant who cannot be killed. Wichannoi catches him on a dive out next, landing a hook and declared the winner with 3 knockdowns in the round. Does several somersaults in celebration. vs Sirimonkol Looksiripat 2nd of 2 (134 lbs vs 136 lbs, 1973-10-26) - southpaw, loss giving up two pounds vs a the future FOTY (1973), a legend of the sport. Early on big weapons are out. Sirimongkok is openside southpaw kick blasting and throwing his straight, Wichannoi knocks him down (no count) with a right straight of his own. Sirimongkol's big kick and boxing keep Wichannoi waiting, and he even rips a kickout trip on Wichannoi. He has more weapons with force. Against the added size Wichannoi can't intimidate with his own power. 3rd round Wichannoi has decided to chop the lead leg down, a favorite against southpaw. Quick inside and outside kicks. Sirimongkok adjust, keeping things long, and teeping with his lead leg to avoid it being excessively targeted. Wichannoi heats up his boxing combinations closing the space, but Sirimongkol has boxing himself, and keeps it long with jabs, slipping Wichannoi's best punches, jabbing and pivoting out. He also answers Wichannoi's tough leg kicks with powerful leg kicks of his own, giving him game to game. 4th round you can just feel that Wichannoi wants to land powerful hand combinations, and he's holding them in wait, only throwing them occasionally. Sirimongkol is still keeping it long with his boxing and a few openside kicks, its mostly about distance. He's also added a left knee in space this round, which is a weapon tailored to beat a boxer. Sirimongkol uses his size and maybe even strength advantage to just deal back Wichannoi whatever he offers, even winning at trading punches. Again, game on game. Wichannoi just can't get to his sweetspot with his hands, and even when he does Sirimongkol just fights him out of it. 5th round Wichannoi is just determined to get to his spot and stay there. He pressures and buckles Sirimongkol some with low kicks. Sirimongkol is doing everything to get him off his spot. Jabbing out, trading low kick for low kick, Wichannoi is staying where he needs and is waiting for his big punch to land. The battle of distance and Wichannoi finally planting his flag is what this fight is about. Sirimongkol finally grabs him to stall it out, but after the break Wichannoi lands a painful low kick and a heavy cross. Sirimongkol grabs to stall, but then shoves off. Wichannoi wades in with pseudo clinch, and then kicks out Sirimongkol's ankle dropping him to the ground. Wichannoi is bringing his legendary toughness, he feels he has a window late. He's trying to kill that leg, staying in. Sirimonkol's deep boxing pivots to the left save him. Wichannoi started too late, and in the end Sirimongkol's size and boxing was enough. vs Saensak Muangsurin 3rd of 3 (1974-08-22) - southpaw, loss Fighting way up vs the 140 lb Lumpinee champion. This fight is a difficult and indeed dangerous fight stylistically. Saensak's known for just sitting on his huge left hand. He has tremendous power. Wichannoi likes to encroach with kicks, eventually stand in and keep his right hand there loaded with power...but he almost always throws his right in combinations. To sit in the pocket though, while Saensak who is two weight classes bigger trains his .44 magnum at him is just asking for pain, and Wichannoi starts this fight tentatively at distance, holding his right glove like a trainers mitt. It's purely devoided to defense. There is some hand fighting as Saensak's .44 is pointed at Wichannoi's smaller caliber with a kick, Saensak crashes in with a straight and its a lot. Wichannoi shifts at the angles, pings at the legs, but its very unclear what he can do. That big left is staring at him. He lands an off-rhythm straight, no combination, and it does nothing. In the 2nd round Saensak realizes that he has control over both range and power and fights passively, backing up, just letting his left wait for Wichannoi to come in. He has to come in, there is no way else to win this fight. Wichannoi starts bouncing around to bring rhythm, this is kind of one of his triggers, and Saensak follows him in it, bringing more life to his own feet. Saensak has long, slow openside kicks that land because Wichannoi is seriously worried about that left. His lead growing. 3rd round Wichannoi has turned the knuckles of his right hand a little bit more forward, its no longer just a trainer's mitt. He's creeping in as he likes to do, usually he wants to plant that flag and punish with lowkicks, but Saensak is beast and even his misses are frightening. Wichannoi tries with lead hand to hand pressure with then his right, or a short body kick. Somehow he needs to get to his spot, he's standing in. Saensak throws an absolutely blazingly fast 2-5-2 combination where the first 2 isn't even a complete punch. It's just a gesture which opens up the guard, the 5 and the next 2 knocking Wichannoi out. wow. Saensak doesn't throw a lot of combinations but this one is just incredibly fast and accurate, and it delivers the left hand bomb. Because Wichannoi is so wary of that left hand that 2 to start just opens him up. He walked into the exact buzzsaw he feared, but some craft with it. They fought 3x, Wichannoi had beaten him 2 years before (I can't imagine how). Saensak: King's Fighter of the Year in 1973, WBC World Boxing Champion vs Pudpadnoi 3rd of 3 (1976-05-27) - southpaw, loss the fight starts out with a bit of range-finding but it becomes clear that the range that Wichannoi is looking for his Muay Maat punching range. He's pressuring, differently than in fight 1. Lots of powerful (rather than flicking) lowkicks early. Round 4 Wichannoi's power kicking game is turned up. Not only kicks to the legs but also to the open side, always measuring for a big right hand. Pudpadnoi is just slippery enough and lands two big kicks with his famous left leg, but Wichannoi had him flinching on low kicks too. He couldn't land his right though. In the 5th Wichannoi still kicking but you can feel he wants to land his heavy hands, the fight is staked on it. He is waiting, but the Golden Leg of Pudpadnoi holds the fort.

Hi, i have a general question concerning Muay-Thai training camps, are there any serious ones in Europe at all? I know there are some for kickboxing in the Netherlands, but that's not interesting to me or what i aim for. I have found some regarding Muay-Thai in google searches, but what iv'e found seem to be only "retreats" with Muay-Thai on a level compareable to fitness-boxing, yoga or mindfullness.. So what i look for, but can't seem to find anywhere, are camps similar to those in Thailand. Grueling, high-intensity workouts with trainers who have actually fought and don't just do this as a hobby/fitness regime. A place where you can actually grow, improve technique and build strength and gas-tank with high intensity, not a vacation... No hate whatsoever to those who do fitness-boxing and attend retreats like these, i just find it VERY ODD that there ain't any training camps like those in Thailand out there, or perhaps i haven't looked good enough?.. Appericiate all responses, thank you!

You won't find thai style camps in Europe, because very few people can actually fight full time, especially in muay thai. As a pro you just train at a regular gym, mornings and evenings, sometimes daytime if you don't have a job or one that allows it. Best you can hope for is a gym with pro fighters in it and maybe some structured invite-only fighters classes. Even that is a big ask, most of Europe is gonna be k1 rather than muay thai. A lot of gyms claim to offer muay thai, but in reality only teach kickboxing. I think Sweden has some muay thai gyms and shows, but it seems to be an exception. I'm interested in finding a high-level muay thai gym in Europe myself, I want to go back, but it seems to me that for as long as I want to fight I'm stuck in the UK, unless I switch to k1 or MMA which I don't want to do.

This is an English translation of a Facebook post written in Thai by a prominent figure of Southern Muay Thai, protesting the new government and stadium changes brought to make Muay Thai more amenable to foreigners. A lot of truth here in how the knowledge of the sport actually lays within the villages and at the festival level...some of this language is quite strong though, far beyond Thai etiquette. Just posting it here because many don't realize that there are Thais that firmly resist these changes, and see them as undermining the sport and art itself: "I have been in Muay Thai my whole life. I've been in it before it became corporate. I've stayed in it with love for the sport. Muay Thai is a poor people's sport. Only children of poor families will fight. In the past, this was a "mafia" sport. Hence, no organization wants to get involved. However, this sport still does things the countryside way. Fights relies on temple fairs and annual events. Rules and regulations that are used were made by the people who of Muay Thai who truly understands it. For example; the 5 rounds, 3 minutes per round and 2 minutes break, weigh-in in the morning. It's all made for fairness, even if the bigger fighter will gain an advantage if the fight is at night time, because morning weigh-ins will impact a fighter's management. In the current day, rules are about to change, because the organizations responsible for Muay Thai do not understand the life of the people of Muay Thai. They don't understand fighting in the Muay Thai way. They attempt to compare Muay Thai with the foreigner's martial arts. They try to shove foreigner's rules on to the roots of our sport and tell us it is universal. They are trying to change our way of life by washing away our Thai identity with their papers and regulations. They bring specialists who've never made any contact with the sport to write the rules without asking of what the people who will be following these rules and bequest the national arts think about the rules. This is borderline of selling the country, selling it's traditions, selling your own roots, just to impress foreigners. The spirits of the ancestors will call you damned children."

ONE didn't invent giving bonuses on top of fight pay in Thailand. In fact it took a long tradition of gamblers providing injections during fights to inspire fighters. When you hear about traditional fight pay you are missing out on the "injection" bonuses which can be substantial. Here today a fighter winning 500,000 injection bonus ($15,000+ USD) and being guided into the stands to thank the gamblers (who are often portrayed in simplistic caricatured ways). It's an ecosystem out of balance, but its still an ecosystem, in which parts support parts. Instead in ONE this bonus tradition has been transferred to only ONE big boss, being handed out on the preference of a single man, who is attempting to steer the aesthetic of Muay Thai itself...away from tradition. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=791304983340912&rdid=mUWvMklDzJ4i3xa6

I thing that many people miss in assessing ONE's future, or even capacity to do anything, is that almost everything you know about ONE (aside from financial declartive documents, and the few voices that escape NDAs and non-disparagement agreements), has been told to you by ONE. So every concept of "reach" or success that is measurable or on a scale comes from the ONE picture building. And...its a bit like asking Trump how his Casinos and buildings are doing. A good, if small, example of this is how RWS is far exceeding ONE Thailand in revenue, by a factor of about 6. source It just shows a very different concept of business. RWS actually wants to generate revenue at the gate, ONE much rather would pack houses with loads of given away tickets and project massive success through its social media agreements and message control. ONE is trying to generate (one might even say "fake") the feeling of a massive moment...because everything is basically a commercial for the next investor round. They much less want actual fans, so much as the vast impression of fans, and spending everything they can to create the impression is a priority...because the "real" revenue" is a massive investment round, unfortunately something that seems to be drying up. They aren't selling the sport to fans, they are selling it to investors. Sizzle, not steak. So any kind of picture we draw from is already part of this enormous Image creation, which it was hoped would bootstrap itself through dramatic gestures of largess. Flaunting huge payment numbers, etc. A form of "Mystery"... Which isn't to say that none of this is good. The world, and especially the "good" of Capitalism, is made from ostentatious pretension. There is in the world the whole "escape velocity" theory, the fake it until you make it, and when fueled by more than half a billion dollars there is a lot one can fake, in fact the faking becomes quite real, affects real lives, turns into power, creating new capacities and opportunities. So, one of the most compelling questions about what comes now is that the actual question of revenue and profit making, peeled away from the presentation of profit-making, gets put up against other forms of Thailand Muay Thai that are pulling revenue. And, because so much of what has come to us has come through the filter of ONE's image making its very hard to know where anything is at all. Everything is bigger, better, about to break through. It's the Golden Rule of Trump-like positive image driving, which when looking at the world does lead to power itself. Invest now! Buy now! You don't want to miss out on this once in a lifetime opportunity! A certain kind of power. We of course should not be lead astray into thinking that Thailand's Muay Thai does not develop and express itself through all kinds of power relations, many of them institutional, many strongly divided by class differences and entrenched hierarchies, There is no "innocent" Muay Thai in the sense of a Muay Thai without efforts of domination and control, in fact the art and sport arguably is the ritualized performance of such. It's more though that maybe this form of economic magical portrayal, as it is so globalized, so hyperstated, so flowing from that which is outside and beyond Thailand, feels like it could be destructive. Too much sizzle...too little steak?

It's pretty amazing that ONE has under contract the woman who at least as an argument for being the greatest female Muay Thai fighter of all time -- but hasn't fought a "real" full rules Muay Thai fight for maybe 7 years now -- and they don't even have her fighting their version of "Muay Thai", or have her face their own very qualified female Muay Thai champion...who is having trouble finding opponents. Phetjee Jaa was a VERY good, multi-skilled, every distance Muay Thai fighter before she became an amateur boxer, and then an Entertainment Thai Fight fighter...now in the service of Kickboxing. Properly, Phetjee Jaa should be representing female Muay Thai to the world. It was her true art, that which she was raised in...until she ran out of opponents. Female Muay Thai has historically missed out through her absence. She's not really a Kickboxer, though she can handle the sport and ruleset. She's a Muay Thai fighter.

Was thinking about a commenter telling another redittor that they were "elitist" for not liking ONE FC, and preferring trad Muay Thai, the absolute irony of them thinking that a new globalized version of the traditional form of the sport (a sport which has been practiced and fought by the working poor throughout Thailand for at least a century, in some ways MADE by the rural nakmuay), a new commodity version which has been invented by hi-so wealthy, "elite" Thais, wealthy sons who went to school in very expensive schools in the United States, a new sport modeled in the Thai high-brow love of MMA (MMA is a Thai hi-so taste in Thailand, because originally you needed a satellite dish to watch it, so only rich young people watched it back in the day), so completely born of Thai elite taste making, and then funded massively, to the tune of more than a Half a BILLION dollars, by wealthy Arab investment and other very elite Venture Capital investment groups, some of the most powerful investment sources in the world...all of that, absolutely about as elitist as you can get, reinventing the traditional sport, inverting pretty much all of its values, in the image of wealth itself, so that affluent tourists and consumers will buy it...but, if you don't like it...you are elitist. The whole thing is about as posh as you can get.

Some of my thoughts on the weigh-in change, and how it reflects back onto deeper aspects of how Thailand's Muay Thai is fought, in this Reddit thread: Recently announced. This should produce much bigger weight differences in the ring, move towards even more power and forward aggression combination fighting, and the diminishment of skilled (femeu) fighting (the longtime hallmark of Thailand's art and sport), and should favor farang who are larger bodied and often more versed in Western style day-before, deeper cut weight drops. It also seems like it will put a greater burden on small kaimuay and provincial fighters, as they would have to come to Bangkok the day before a fight, increasing fight expenses when often its hard to even break even on fights (perhaps there will be some support?). For the longest time day-of weigh-ins were the standard of legit matchup Thai trad fighting. Silently this change could have long lasting effects. and As I mention above (here) there are some aspects about Thai traditional scoring that also keep deep weight cutting in check (these are things people are also trying to change to a more Western style). Thais can cut the way that they do, same day, in part because of how the sport is fought and judged. You just can't cut too deep and still win. Also, Thai trad weight cutting is very different. It's not about making huge plunges close to the fight. It's incrementally getting closer to the weight, with its own science and knowledge. and It's a National PAT (SAT) rule change. It's supposed to cover all Muay Thai, part of a "Grassroots to International" effort. Entertainment Muay Thai was already headed there, or there, so this most dramatically effects traditional stadium Muay Thai in Bangkok I imagine, and major trad promotions. Enforcement of rules in Thailand is quite varied, so I imagine it pragmatically has little to do with trad fighting in the provinces (?) unless a part of the new gov outreach there. (just guessing). Have no idea what it means for fighting in tourist centers like Phuket or Chiang Mai. and Some of deep weight cutting was constrained by two things in trad day-of fighting. The first was because you were fighting later that day you were really limited in how far you could effectively go...but the second hidden aspect is that because trad scoring aesthetics have of a lot of subtle by important aspects to them (ie, they aren't entirely about "points" or "damage" but involve things like "ruup" [posture] and balance), you couldn't really go into the ring very depleted...your ruup and just your substance as a fighter would be down-scored. This was even more reinforced by Thai narrative scoring aesthetics (which a lot of Westerners get upset about). If you FADE in a fight you are penalized, because the fight has an arc to it. You have to be strong in round 4 or you just won't win. This, combined with the same day weigh-in, created a natural barrier for how low you could go. You have to have stamina. You can't artificially pad your lead with early rounds point wins, and coast in the 4th. One of things people don't realize is that if you chop away at the narrative scoring structure (the new rules start heading in this direction), and at trad scoring aesthetics AND add deeper weight cuts, this produces a huge swing which could be dangerous. They are mixing Thai and Western protocols and also Thai and Western fighting aesthetics in ways that I think haven't been completely thought about. Thai practices developed over many decades within their own sport. and Longtime Thais have a very precise understanding of how to cut weight in the trad scene, day-of weigh-in, trad scoring aesthetics. Western weight cutting, and weight cutting competition trends will start to seep in. This is pretty dangerous in my view, because knowledge of how to do the deeper cuts will communicate itself very unevenly. Already there is a lot of pseudo "Sports Science" stuff floating around Thailand, often via lightly qualified farang who offer themselves as advisors or coaches. Lots of Thais will end up having partial or just plain mis- information about how to cut in a Western fashion. Add in the common use of diuretics which amplifies issues. The Western cut is very different than the Thai cut. And mixing the two, or moving back and forth between them could be dangerous. Doing a Thai cut with a Water loading cut or a sodium loading cut, or deep Albolene sweat, who knows what can happen. At least IVs (which are very popular in Thailand) are plentiful, but still, there is danger here. Once pieces of information start entering the culture they can become a game of telephone. Spread this out over an entire sport and its asking for risks. and I suspect that one of the main reasons for this is actually economic...that is as Thailand's labor pool for fighters shrinks its harder to fill the many cards. This rule change means that a wider group of fighters are available for any particular match. Matchmakers are less constrained. Also, it happens to serve folding larger-bodied Westerners into the trad market...ie, they can fight much smaller Thais. This helps with the labor market some (more fighters to choose from), and also helps with Soft Power (selling the sport abroad). More Westerners fighting, and more Western winners (probably more Westerner belt holders as well). It really addresses in the short term several pragmatic issues, and it seems like its a government ambition to kind of codify all of Muay Thai, so that it can export the sport more readily, which is unfortunate because much of the sport's uniqueness and ultimate marketability in a deeper sense, relies on its uncodified, un-rationalized nature. I also am not sure if it just leads to everyone then using the same weight cutting practices, as for instance happens in Internationalized sports, because as I have mentioned in other comments, Thai cuts are very different than Western cuts, and the way that knowledge and practices disseminate in Thailand really is uneven. It's much more likely that Westerners will just hold a significant advantage, as will big Westernized or Western-informed Thai gyms (who already have large political advantages in the sport), and the smaller gyms and provincial fighters will not be able to play the same weight cutting game, and may even be led into dangerous hybrid or misinformed practices.

Heard backstage at a trad promotion in Bangkok, Dieselnoi loudly complaining that Thais don't know how to knee anymore, nobody even knees to hurt. Just kneeing for show and points. *This isn't a question of intensity (how hard), its one of technique, and continuity. The knee techniques of Hapalang gym have just been largely lost.

Thats so upsetting. Whats worse is that its a conscious action for them to have go about fighting like this. While for lots of us in the states or Europe where fighting is just like this anyway its just how you do it, we dont even make the conscious action of how much power you're putting into something, what follows after, and our own composure. It shifts energy away from ones self which is why it seems to muster up so much of the ego in the first place. Self attachment through the reaction of others and the materiality of power is really self degradation.

I put together this compilation of little notes Sylvie has taken in a stretch of training and sharing Muay Thai, and was surprised that there is a full 30 minutes of these. I'm just struck and really almost shocked at how much knowledge she drops and the nature of it. These are not "demos" of techniques, but looking beneath or within techniques, something that comes from being closely connected to techniques for many many years, and her self-transformation. I can't think of another person in the world who could drop notes like this, of this much variety, because this just comes out of her path. These are like reading notes of Muay Thai. It's a very interesting, and kind of inspiring level of knowledge. She's a walking encyclopedia of experience and knowledge. That foot-drop taught by Manop is just this kind of thing. It's not "technique", its a piece of a technique, but its related to a generative principle that informs all sorts of other techniques, and even can touch all of your Muay Thai. There are so many of those.

I'm exploring two aspects of (seeming) spontaneous order (complexity) in Thailand's traditional Muay Thai. At the level of fights themselves there seem to have been a market dynamics in betting customs which drove diversity and escalating skill level, and within the traditional kaimuay there seems to have been an individuation process in training which also escalated skill level and diversity (or at least individualized expression), each of these with not a great deal of Top Down structuring, steering. I'm searching for the nexus between these two "self-organzing" dynamics, which may really be more complimentary, social systems.

Here is some private discussion traditional Muay Thai description which helped develop this parable of the Guitar. The challenge, from a philosphical sense, but also from an ethnographic sense, is to explain the diversity and sophistication of technique and style that arises in the Thai kaimuay, without much Top Down instruction. Here appealing to Simondon's theory of Individuation. But...in the Muay Thai (traditional) example, you actually are learning through a communal resonance with your peers, everyone else in the camp. Through a group memesis. It's not a direct relationship to the "music" per se, between you as an individual and an "experience" It's horizontal... how the person next to you is experiencing/expressing the music and relating to the authority and the work. I've compared it to syncing metronomes. youtu.be/Aaxw4zbULMs?... the communal form of the kaimuay (camp) brings together a communication of aesthetic, technical excellence, in which there is very little or NO top down direct control or shaping. young fighters sync up with the communal form, which actually also involves an incredible amount of diversity. Everyone kicking on a bag in a traditional setting has a DIFFERENT kick, because they haven't been "corrected" from the top down... But all the kicks in the gym have a kind of sync'd up quality, something that goes beyond a biomechanical consistency. There is a tremendous Virtual / Actual individuation dynamic that I think you would vibe on. This is what gives trad Muay Thai so much of its diversity. So much of its expression. It's because of its horizontal, communal learning through mimesis and a kind of perspective-ism If you go into a Western Muay Thai gym all the kicks on the bag, from all the students/fighters will be the SAME kick. With some doing it better or worse, with more "error" or less than others. In a trad Thai gym all the kicks are different. ...but, its hard to describe...because they all express some "inner" thing that holds them together. Maybe the same thing can be seen in other sports, like inner city basketball or favela football/soccer, things that have a kind of "organic" lineage. They hold together because they are a cultural form that is developed in horizontal context and comparisons with peers (not Top Down), but everyone has their own "game". It is very diverse. When people try to "export" knowledge from these, let's call them "organic", contexts, processes, not only are things "abstracted" (often biomechanically, traced into fixed patterns), but they are also exported with Top Down authority which channels and exacts "faithfullness" to some isolate quality. I think this is Deleuze's main issue with Platonism. The idea that there is a "form" and then "copies" which are more or less faithful. This, I'd argue, is actually something that prevails in "export" (outside of a developmental milieu), under conditions of abstraction (and perhaps exploitation). This is the "cut". 6:29 PM Here is a video where we slow motion filmed the kick of Karuhat, one of the greatest kickers in Thai history. We not only filmed him, but also Sylvie trying to learn through imitation. He is the only person who has this kick, in all its individuation. You cannot get this kick by just imitating it...(in person, Sylvie) or as a user practicing it from the video. It was developed in a virtuality of the kaimuay, by him. But, in documenting it...some (SOME!) aspects of it are transmitted forward. ...its a kick that is very different than many Western versions of the "Thai Kick" The keys to it are about a feeling, an affect array perhaps, and its uniqueness came out of the shared "metronome" of the traditional gym, the horizontal community of training, which also produced other kicks of the same "family of resemblance" (as Wittgenstein would say) Ultimately, its preservation is about returning to the instruction of a "feeling"...but also highlighting that the kick itself came out of a mutuality of feeling, and not a Top Down instruction. It's much closer to something like all the diversity of qualities of different pro surfers, who learned to surf not only one-to-one on individual waves, but in communities of surfers who would all go to one spot, and kind of cross-pollinate, compete in a mutuality (non-formally), steal and borrow from each other, a milieu. Not because there was some kind of Top Down authority of "how to surf" or "what exact techniques to use", or because there was an ideal "form" and a lot of error'd versions of it copying it. Almost everything that Sylvie produces is Sylvie learning through imitation and FAILING before the living example, because what we are actually documenting is not the Ideal vs the bad copy...but rather the actual, embodied, lived relationship that integrates oneself with another, converging in communication. She is "copying", but that's not really it. It's about syncing up, and the material/psychological relationship between two people, which smooths over the biomechanical "copy", and fills in some of the affects. But...this mutuality is really also artificial, because its one-to-one, and this isn't how Muay Thai technique is transmitted. It's developed in community. One-to-many. Many-to-one.

This kid was on like a 17 fight winning streak after winning this fight from behind. Lost the streak now though

7. One from Kiatpetch, my kid got destroyed by this one once and I never forgot the name. Probably the best Muay Dek Kiatpetch got right now. Vellfire Rotsuayjajetsaipriw

6. I'm very femue-leaning when it comes to preferences, but this is like the strongest kid I'd ever seen in my life. Ferrari Banktongtaipetchburi

I'd add to the list The TDet99 gym in Bangkok which we recently film in for the Muay Thai Library (Kru Hem), watch that here: It's a Bangkok kaimuay, a gambling stadium trad gym, with not a lot of Westerners (last we checked), and a top kru. A Walk Through of the Gym: Map link to their location

how to use head movement in Muay Thai: https://x.com/Egokind1/status/1906268431315280261 The highlight brings in general the thought that everyone has gotten spam-the-elbows happy in Thailand. This has happened quickly, and you could pretty much see the change start in real time because of COVID, beginning when they briefly banned clinch in paranoia (and with Entertainment Muay Thai). It feels like the Yodkhunpon template (which itself as an extreme outlier, and not well-esteemed in its time) got oversimplified. A lot of Muay Thai is just becoming Muay Elbow. As defense significantly erodes in Muay Thai though, the elbow is becoming a more and more effective go-to. It becomes chicken and egg. More elbows, less defense, the less defense, the more elbows are effective. The elbow may become the iconic cliche strike of Muay Thai, when at its height Muay Thai rather rarely featured elbows. They were seen as both "low" and largely ineffective.

Instinct and the Thai Principle of Tammachat (ธรรมชาติ) an expansion upon my journal entry This will remain somewhat obscure, as it's hard to fill the gap in my recent reading, but thoughts on the nature of Tammachat (natural), which is one of the more essential, basic yet obscured qualities of Thailand's Muay Thai - and one that non-Thais most deeply struggle with. How can something be "natural", which is trained? They seem a contradiction, or at the very least in strong tension. Into the gap Westerners try to place concepts like "muscle memory", as if you can create a new causal chain, a new "memory" in your body which then operates with something like "naturalness". This supposed manufactured "muscle memory" is often trained with great tension - a very high degree of unrelaxed, biomechanically precise constant correction. It does not really solve the problem of Tammachat, and instead inserts a mechanical bridge between between what I'll call Instinct and Thought. I'm drawing from these two passages in the excellent book Deleuze and the Unconscious (2007, Christian Kerslake), (see them at the bottom of this post), discussing the influence of the philosopher Bergson. Bergson is concerned with how matter and memory work together. In a certain sense we all have a powerful inheritance of memory, something which includes not all of our conscious experiences, but all of our experiences, much of it unconscious. This is not just things that we can recall to our mind, but rather the very large raft of causes well below the threshold of our awareness, including our biological instincts. Instincts are wisdom, skills, reactions, frames of perception which have been developed through not only 10,000 years of ancestry, but also 100s of millions years of life itself, well below our species. All of this is inherited, in a way, in "memory", the form of the matter of which we are made. When "memory" is acting, this by default is read as "natural". If someone fakes a punch and we flinch...this is natural. It is speaking from our memory. It flows, seemingly, without thought. But Thailand's Muay Thai has a concept of developed naturalness, which is to say the qualities of physical expression which also can flow with the ease that memory has. The temptation is to create "new memories" (that's why "muscle memory") is a thing. If we can train and cram-down memories back into our causal shoot, far enough in, then they too might come out some what "natural" in the future. You see a great deal of this in the proliferation of the "combo", a fixed pattern of strike that is trained over and over again, trying to force it back down into the causal chain, so it can come out "natural"...though it almost always, when trained like this, comes out "forced" and far from Thai Tammachat. The reason for this failing is identified in the passages below (though, this is just a note, and the passages themselves may be hard to decipher, I'm drawing out a line of their thought). The point or idea is not to create new memory, or new instincts (they will never be as strong as those inherited by the instincts of biology, or of those learned deep in our forgettable pasts), its to put Instinct itself in relationship with Thought (or, in the text Intelligence). The ideal state, the Tammachat state, is one in which Instinct and Thought alternate and affect each other. Not only does Thought shape Instinct, Instinct shapes Thought. In some sense the great history of our Being, our personal Unconscious (all things experienced, most of it well below our threshold of awareness) and our collective biological Instincts, all the causes of how we act, is placed in communication with Thoughts, Intelligence, Ideas, in the sense that there is dialogue and mutuality, and no priority of either. In "flow states", presumability, this communication becomes utterly suffused. This is why "play" plays such an important part of Thai training and development, it approximates in a low stakes way this suffusion. * in what follows below I'll take a basic framework of 3 intensifications in kaimuay training: speed (which maybe the speed of a sparring opponent, a padman, or even the speed on the bag or drills); fatigue (the ways in which exhaustion creates spaces into which the mind-cannot-follow); and dominance (which may be the agonistic dominance of someone in sparring or clinch, the dominance of a high level padman, or the dominance of traditional culture & hierarchy. There are many more kinds or sources of intensification - for the Westerner of course a very large source is simply being in another culture, amid its customs and a language you do not know - but just for the illustrative purposes of the framework, these are the three. Aesthetics and Thought The role of Intensification. In the philosophy of Deleuze (and Deleuze and Guattari) there is emphasis on speeds. The exposure to speeds (sometimes in an absolute sense, sometimes in terms of changes in speeds) produces an intensification within oneself. Something that is too fast, but also something that is too slow...intensifies. In this framework I'll position this as that-which-challenges-thought, or that-which-is-where-thought-cannot-follow. This is to say, using Intelligence to keep track, plan and react is no longer sufficient. Intensification is what puts Thought in relationship with Instinct. (And keep in mind, here Instinct isn't just animal reactiviness, though it includes that too. It is the sum of our Unconscious causations.) Intensifications produce a dialogue. Muay Thai active training, aside from drills and conditioning, is thought of as "getting used to" certain speeds and intensifications, things that would just throw you into pure instinctive reactions if you were untrained. But, it is much more than that. The "getting used to" is not just exposure therapy, it is actually putting Thought and Instinct into communication with each other, by degrees. You want both dimensions, otherwise you will never receive Tammachat. This is how Thai aesthetics - to which a non-Thai must submit and be shaped by - work to sew together these two aspects of our Being. The over-arching picture of what the art of Muay Thai is, is what allows the space in which Instinct and Thought can develop together in unanticipated, experimental ways. Each must shape each...within the Aesthetic, held together by the Aesthetic. The use of intensification - there are many aspects of intensification, but we can stay with solely the quality of speeds - is to unseat Thought and place it into community with Instinct (your Past). If the intensification is too strong Thought will be forced completely down into Instinct, too light and it will operate over Instinct. The key to Tammachat is that they suffuse, the "wisdom" of each in combination. This is why Thailand's traditional Muay Thai, its very high level of command over the fight space, is an art. Fighters develop within a sphere of progressive, integrating, creative intensifications, and the fight is conducted at the level of a Tammachat suffusion of Thought and Instinct. This is what the great legendary fighters of Thailand's past exude an extraordinary degree of being "at ease", which is why they are so "natural" in their speeds and relations. One is not simply "getting used to" speeds and intensifications. Your Past (the full causal panoply of what you are, reaching much further back than even your person, into what you are as an organism) is being synthesized into an Aesthetic, a certain kind of creative completion, or some variation thereof. The Role of "Technique" Techniques are not bio-mechanically pure modularities, any more than words in a language are distinguished by perfectly performed phonemes. Techniques, which each contain their own intensity, shape, duration (duree). You cannot train techniques by rote to bury them into your past, hoping that they will come out in a kind of blind apparition that is Tammachat. Techniques are like words given to you to actively use, to express yourself within the social space (the fight space), as you encounter intensifications (speeds) that unseat thought. It is the use of techniques, as a kind of language, to weave Instinct and Intelligence (Thought) together. They perform a kind of active armature of expression, which of which holds its own intensification, just like poets let us know that words do. Do not get lost in techniques. The appeal of Thai techniques to the West and other non-Thai centers of fighting is clear. It is the most modular "piece" of the fighting Art of Muay Thai that can be exported outside of its art, like borrowing words of another language. Techniques yield to bio-mechanical reproduction, they can be analyzed by Western sensibilities and translated into angles of force and body position, accelerated by video replications and study. They can be and "are" extracted...but as extracted become nearly useless in the pursuit of Tammachat, the synthesis of Instinct and Thought. They instead operate, usually, with a jarring abutment of Instinct and Intelligence, expressing a mechanical repetition, amid exposures to intensifications of speeds which unseat Thought, often placing Instinct and Execution of technique in a kind of war or struggle of expression. No matter how much one trains technique and practices by rote repeated patterns of striking, one can not reach Tammachat. What is Intensification? The Relationship to Speeds (detour) a small sidestep to Tarkovsky to draw in a thoughts on how kinds of Time are stitched together. This will be helpful later, in a comprehensive picture of how Time operates in traditional Muay Thai, both in training and performance. Understand that the argued aim of a high level fighter is to link "time-pressures" together, just as a filmmaker like Tarkovsky does. To build aesthetic continuity (which the Thais of fighters call "Doh"). The great Russian filmmaker Tarkovsky in his book Sculpting In Time wrote about his philosophy of editing shots together. Known for his dreamlike cinema, this concept of intensification in alternation is key to the way in which he places Thought in relationship to Instinct (our collective Past). He has compared the linking of shots together as to connecting pipes together of various diameters, differing pressures, through which water flows. A shots pressure builds up slowly, then he cuts. His art is about alternating and working through various pressures. Some quotes from his writing: The distinctive time running through the shots makes the rhythm...rhythm is not determined by the length of the edited pieces, but by the pressure of the time that runs through them Rhythm in cinema is conveyed by the life of the object visibly recorded in the frame. Just as from the quivering of a reed you can tell what sort of current, what pressure there is in a river, in the same way we know the movement of time from the flow of the life-process reproduced in the shot Editing brings together shots which are already filled with time, and organises the unified, living structure inherent in the film; and the time that pulsates through the blood vessels of the film, making it alive, is of a varying rhythmic press reading deeper into theory: Time and the Film Aesthetics of Andrei Tarkovsky, Donato Totaro, A Deleuzian Analysis of Tarkovsky’s Theory of Time-Pressure, Part 1. This is to say, Tarkovsky in his cinema Art makes use of the same unseating qualities of speeds (changes in intensity), which unseat the priority of Thinking, that Muay Thai training (and fighting) does. The highest level Golden Age Muay Thai artist is displaying speed/intensity changes expressively, in Tammachat, in the same sense that Tarkovsky is in his films, producing a dream-like synthesis of Thought and Instinct. It is dream-like because it overcomes the fundamental tension between Thought (directed, intelligent action) and Instinct (one's Past causal treasure trove), allowing each to communicate to the other. The qualitative Flow State. One does not "bite down" on technique when exposed to intensifications (speeds, but there are many others) which give rise to Instinct. Instead, one turns oneself over to the Aesthetic of Muay, and searches for "words" to integrate oneself, within Instinct, within Thought. Seeking the line of Tammachat. In this sense, ring Muay Thai could be regarded as a proto-form of cinema. The Role of Emotion Primordially, the greatest instinct that a training fighter encounters is Fear. The Art of Fighting is in many ways the Art of Communicating with Fear. One does not merely dull or annul oneself to fear, fear which contains great wisdom acquired not only through one's own life, but also through the history of the organism, passing through aeons back. The Art of Muay should be considered the Art of Fear...and with it the attendant Instinct of Aggression. Training includes the Instinct of Fatigue. Fear, Aggression and Fatigue can be thought of as the Instinct loom upon which Thought is woven, through the exposure to intensities and the arch aesthetic of Muay. One finds a language, one finds words, which work together the instinct and intelligence of Muay, in a new Tammachat, a new naturalness. Returning to the original reference (below), emotion stands as that which exists between Thought and Instinct. Emotion is that which surges when Thought loses its footing, inviting Instinct in. It is the qualitative way in which we pass through the world, bouncing from intensifying state to intensifying state. For this reason the Thai Buddhistic approach to emotion plays a central role in achieving a new Tammachat communication between Instinct and Intelligence. Emotional reactions in training are to be expected - and emotion itself provides the bridge - but in order for the Aesthetic to provide the cover for development emotion needs to even'd out, understood as a connective force, but not reaching intensities that obscure the sought-for connection. Emotion is simply the sign that Intensities (speeds) have reached a place where Though can no longer adequately follow. It is the door that allows Instinct in. In the right regulation, the right temperature, enough Instinct will enter to guide, and technique (one's learned words) will be allowed to speak, joining Intelligence and Instinct together. Emotion is the conduit. The extension of emotion into a perceptual space (and not merely a spiking or depressive reaction), along Buddhist non-reactive principles, is what allows the art itself to work the synthesis together, properly in training in play. It allows the Tammachat to grow. Without emotion, the substantive expansion which exposed to intensifications that leave Thought & Intelligence behind, one cannot be nourished by one's collective Past. But, it is a question of temperature. Emotion drawn towards Mind. All of this has grown quite esoteric, but it is much more human, much more basic than that. In training one is exposed to differing speeds (intensities), and given techniques (words to speak), both with these speeds, but also amid these speeds. Importantly, these speeds are not just intensifications of fast, they are also intensifications of slow. One is working through a disorientation of the mind (thought, intelligence) in manners which are designed to provoke emotion, but emotion which is only a door to the much wider wealth of Instinct (Unconscious). Emotion is to be regulated, encouraged to be non-reactive, eased into a larger framework of the Aesthetic of Muay, so that the door to Instinct remains open, just enough, so Instinct and Intelligence can collaborate and find ground in a new Tammachat. The invocations of Instinct come out of the very form of training in the Kaimuay in Thailand, a summoning up of the Past, both individual and social, in a community of fighter development. One cannot simply "take out" the techniques of the kaimuay, from this matrix. As fighters train into fatigue, Instinct is also invited in, to speak and inform the Mind. The Aesthetic of Muay steps in to hold the two together, also brought together in the social glue of the kaimuay itself. There is an important mutuality to training, which also falls to the traditional forms of Thai hierarchical culture, a way that the Past inhabits the Present through social bond. Muay Thai is the art by which the Past is allowed to continue to speak, so as to inform (and be informed by) Intelligence. This occurs though, principally, through the exposure and involvement of speeds (intensities) designed to provoke emotion, which itself must be modulated by Buddhistic appeal. This is a fundamental shoreline in training, which then expresses itself in a higher state when fighting. The Fighter and the Unconscious: the flinch and the archetype To follow along in this discussion its important to understand what the nature of the Unconscious is. We are very far from Freud's vision of a repressed Unconscious of drives. We are thinking of a productive Unconscious, the Unconscious understood as everything from flinching to (perhaps) Jung's concept of archetypes. This is because the Unconscious is everything that falls below the threshold of awareness. It includes all the aspects of one's personal history, the experiences of childhood and before, all the things learned as "forgotten", and (following Jung) the energies of one's personal force such as the Shadow or the anima/animus, etc. In training the fighter is engaging, in a systematic craft of intensity exposure and development (its no accidental that Muay Thai is by custom part of the pedagogy and maturation of male adolescents), eliciting emotion for its relative control, turning it onto a conduit. The conduit is connecting Mind (Intelligence, Thought) to Instinct (the Unconscious), and back again. It is drawing forth on the resources of the Unconscious (all of the Unconscious - from the composite of the organism and the species, all those reflects and affective capacities and perceptions, to archetypal forms of being in a social world, the mythos of the Individual - all of it), to animate and inform the art of the Muay, which operates as a continuous aesthetic. Both the flinch as a reflex, and the flinch as a half-memory when you were hit as child, (and also the flinch that served emotionally as a recoil from a dominance, a psychic positioning of your energies before a stronger energy), all of those levels of Unconscious capacity are drawn into the aesthetic of the Muay, and are given words to speak, so as to be symbolically present, imbued in movement. The movement is also informed by those Unconscious qualities and many others, made full, through the deeper knowledge of survival and persistence. Key is understanding that the Past is not regressive. The Unconscious is not limiting/limited. It is full of a wealth of the capacity to do...but, it is beneath awareness, and definitionally not accessible by Intelligence/Thought alone. The instinct to flinch, the reflex, following our example, despite violating the aesthetic of the fighter is imbued with tremendous resource, a speed of perception, a defensive priority, which surpasses any conscious action. Those extra-personal knowledges are to be folded into the Aesthetic of Muay. So this is the case with enumerable capacities to sense and act, affective energies of presence, aspects of the organism and the Self which are so infinite they cannot be known. Imperceptible transitions between modes and embodiments of Time. The training (and the performance) reaches reaches through up from the reflex to the sweep of the mythic Self, all of it inaccessible to the direct perception of the Mind. Emotion and Intensification Noted above, in training intensification gives rise to emotion, which opens the doorway to the Unconscious (Instinct). Intensification on one level, let's say in terms of sparring (play), operates along the aspect of speed. One is exposed to speeds, including changes of speeds (tempos), which defy the capacity of the mind to follow, which gives rise to emotion. The intensification though is not emotion. It produces emotion. Emotion that rises to the point of object obsession (that "fighter" is doing this to me, that "technique" is doing this to me, making me feel this) has already lost its role. It's role is to open Thought to Instinct. The coaching and calculating mind, the analytical mind, will lead emotion in the wrong direction. That is why the Buddhistic aspect of Thailand's traditional Muay Thai works to solve the mis-steps of emotion. The Buddhistic aspects of Muay Thai are embedded in its aesthetic form. One doesn't have to think of emotion in terms of Buddhism, but it can help. This is to say, the directionality of the rise of emotion is toward Instinct. One wants to open a two-way door toward the Unconscious. Because Muay Thai is trained also through fatigue and an aesthetic of dominance, intensification (and its attendant rise of emotion) can also occur through fatigue or dominance. Together they can create a very large doorway, weaving together both the materiality of the Body (fatigue) and the psychodynamics of personhood and social status (hierarchies). Turning to the aesthetic of Muay, its conditioning of Ruup (body posture and form), its characteristic display of presence and being at ease (physically), its flattening of emotion, allows the doorways of intensification/emotion to remain open, productive and expressive. Ideally perhaps, emotion per se is stretched out toward Mind, experienced more so as direct intensification alone, a portal to Unconscious Instinct, and the formative powers of what one is. prospective graphic The Mythos of the Self and the Fighter Thailand's Muay Thai is culture bound, which means that its figures of significance and valorization are drawn from the culture itself. It operates within a Thai-Siamese mythos. For this reason great legends of Thailand's Muay Thai past, let's say of the Golden Age of the sport or before, stand in the same light as the gods that are performed and invoked in the Ram Muay. In my discussion of the 10 Principles of Muay Thai I call this "be the god". The meaning of this is to be understood within the mythos of the Unconscious, both at a personal level, but also at the collective level of a people. The fighter in the ring draws up from the Past (the Unconscious) the supra-personal forces that go beyond their mere ego (constructed identity), so that they can assume a symbolic capacity within the ring, making of the art a collective rite. This occurs through the aesthetics of the sport, and the ways in which the fighter has attained the capacity to transmute intensifications into Instinct and Thought syntheses. In this sense fighters can become embodiments of a collective, mythic past, drawing on the forms of what anchors a people, but remain inaccessible to Intelligence alone. The openness of this capacity is achieved in the openness of training, through play and the aesthetics of Muay. Time and the Nature of Muay (the Natural) Bergson's concept of Duration (la durée) is an important building block for understanding what is happening in traditional training and in fighting. A duration for Bergson is an unbreakable envelope of Time. Returning to the example of cinema, a shot holds a certain complete shape to itself. If you edited it in any way you would break what it is. Bergson describes duration as Time what is "swollen with its past". Just as a story is told in a narration, the ending of the story is swollen with its history, the telling of it from the beginning. A duration is anything that cannot be broken, in terms of Time. There may be durations within a duration, unbreakable envelopes within the duration, this does not disturb its wholeness. The image is given of music where one has the musical piece (a duration), and individual notes played (a duration), as well as refrains, phrasings, melodies, etc. Our lives are durations, our days, our thoughts, our bodies, anything that swells with its past, with the passing of time, so to complete it. When one enters a Thai kaimuay to train, or enters a ring to fight, one is entering as a duration (in fact a duration made up of many durations). And one is joining a duration, the event. The rhythms and shapes of the event envelop your duration hold you in concert with other durations you will encounter. In a kaimuay these are the patterns of training, the aesthetics and customs of the art as trained; in the ring it is the aesthetics of Muay as it is fought. This is the set-up. As you train your duration, what is the you of you, your temporal wholeness will be challenged by intensities of speed, fatigue and dominance. This will lead to intensification, and usually emotion. As Thought ceases to be able to manage one's place, one's wholeness, one opens up the the Unconscious/Instinct, to draw on resources that allow your duration, your rhythm, your wholeness to persist. The Time of which you are made (your duration) is enriched by the rise and integration of Instinct, and that which usually falls below consciousness. Your duration is expanded. Fighting is the art of breaking another's duration, their rhythm and tempo which makes them whole. This is why Muay Thai is principally a Time War, and why it occurs under an aesthetic of narration (the scoring is narratively anchored, and not abstract point counting). The techniques of engagement are temporal battles, strikes holding their own duration within the larger duration, attempts to break the unbreakable coherence of the duration of the other. This is why Ruup and continuity play such a large role in Muay Thai aesthetics and skill building. The Natural, the Tammachat, comes from the presence and integration of Instinct, the presence of the Unconscious, which is engendered to flow with Thought. This is achieved in training, through the application of intensities and the invitation of modulated emotion/affect. The Gross and The Subtle: drawing up the Past When I say above: "Fighting is the art of breaking another's duration, their rhythm and tempo which makes them whole." its important to track the layers of duration. There is the duration of the human body that remains composite, which if broken would result in severe injury or death, and then there is the duration of a performance's artifice, the wholeness of their techniques, presentational command over space (which is why things like balance, rhythm and ruup factor in significantly in scoring). Under a Western conception of fighting one might imagine that the purpose of fighting is to break the duration of other person's body, to in a sense decompose them (for instance, perhaps idealized in the Knockout, which signifies a kind of "death", the ending of consciousness). But in the art of Muay Thai the battle is within the performed duration, the ways in which one deplays one's material, bodily duration as a person, within a style, an aesthetics of dominance and endurance. This is why the sport is scored, and not just until the loss of consciousness or even death (as it once reportedly was). This, arguably, is how it rose to an art, an art which raises the level of efficacy of fighters, the development of skills and capacities that result in the control over Time (and Space), a control which would substantially result in the capacity to break the duration of a person. This is why Knockouts traditionally, around the middle to late 20th century, were not favored in Muay Thai, it was about skill development, but skills that are quite subtle, the skill to battle in Time. Key to this development is the principle of Tammachat, the subject of this piece. As I've argued, Tammachat naturalness is only developed through Instinct and the capacities of the Unconscious, which is to say you cannot leave Instinct and the Unconscious behind. Instead, the Instinct/Unconscious is invited to enter into the present and take up the techniques, aesthetic forms (rhythms and ruups), and use them perhaps like words. To speak anew, because the words are anew, and developed through the art and execution of the sport, now at least well over the last century in the country...and perhaps for 100s upon 100s of years, in various versions. This returns us to the thought of a basic Buddhistic approach to the affects of training (and of fighting), that spikes and surges of emotion are seriously discouraged (until recently, with the globalizing of the sport, attempting to make it join the Rage Fighting of the combat entertainment world, satisfying consumers in increasingly small bits and chunks - Instagram posts, endless highlights, scream-faced promos, etc). The reason why principle of Tammachat (natural) and Ning (being at ease) are prized and essential to the development of the sport is that, as explained above, intensification and emotion opens the doorway to the Unconscious and Instinct. They invite Instinct into the process, and it is very important that the doorway be moderated, in fact even artfully controlled (this is why in a traditional Kaimuay the quality of the head kru and gym head is very significant, the training controls flow through them). The larger the emotional-intensification gate, the more course, the more gross the instinctive entry into the present. This is why lots of very hard sparring or anger surges, or wild swings of emotion will produce only the most reactive contributions to training and skillsets. Fight or flight, adrenaline rushes (and depressive purges) will push their way forward, through into the present to solve the problem. Only their very primitive hands will pick up techniques, if at all. And techniques may even battle against the instinctive, as fighters try to "bite down" and overcome the instinctive response. Lost is any sense that the Past, the Unconscious, is filled with wisdom and capacities that the Conscious mind could never know, specific know-hows of how to control Time (and Space), manipulating reactions, bending possibilities, things not only inherited from our personal past, but from the millions of organisms that survived spatial and temporal struggles to eventual rise to you. These are the virtual simulations of contest which create a composite of what a fighter is capable of, almost all of them well below the level of awareness. As the emotional door becomes narrower, the Instinctive Unconscious is invited to enter the present in subtler and subtler ways. No longer will they be emergency solutions, gross motor contractions or compellings, sheer spikings of intensity, instead the spread out web of temporal and spatial understandings, the ways the body can move and perceive, when in flow, are invited in. The more subtly the Instinctive and the Unconscious enters in, the more likely it is to pick up the new "words" of techniques and the Thai aesthetic altogether, and think through them, express itself through them...in other words...be Natural. Natural is experiential clarity and fluidity. Taken to the extreme one might venture that the meditating Buddhist monk is producing the lightest of all intensifications, like the thinnest rumbles on a drum skin, without emotion altogether, to draw up the most subtle web of the Unconscious, increasingly subtle, increasingly spread wide. Thailand's traditional Muay Thai, in its training and performance, makes use of this principle at a more directly intensive level, to develop the Tammachat of Thai fighting, inviting the Past and the great well-spring within us to speak, with new words. the above graphic loosely presents the more "course" Instinctive responses to solve present problems, fear, anger, freezing, which pass through the wide door, and the much more subtle complexities and patterns/connectivities that come from Unconscious knowing, passing through the narrowed window, coming in contact with technique/aesthetics. Muay Thai at its richest is the development of Instinct and the Unconscious in increasingly complex techniques and styles, in dialogue with each other, carefully increasing the passage of Unconscious capacities - in their sophistication - into the present moment, the speed, perceptions & anticipations and adroitness of what lies well below the thresholds of conscious attention. This cannot be achieved biomechanically, through rote repetitions and imitative perfectioning, nor by "biting down" as intensification rises. It is achieved through the durational experience of Time, and the art of shaping Time(s), bringing the fullness of what is Unconscious in us, to speak, to the fore...the Natural. Bergson on Instinct and Thought, from Deleuze and the Unconscious (2007): This is the original passage set that began these thoughts; one can leave aside the direction of this argument toward frenzy and the mystic. Important is the relational dichotomy of Instinct and Intelligence.

Well then, after a rewatch its really clear what the difference was. The first fight was reffed with a VERY "entertainment" ref style, the clinch broken almost immediately about 80% of the time. Reffing is huge shaper of Muay Thai fights for clinch fighters and the ref just took the clinch off the table. The belt fight reffed in a very different, traditional way (thank goodness). Also, Barbara didn't sink her head in at all in the August fight, which also added to the reffing issue, because Marie could get a handle for her various cross-faces and stalls, giving the ref something to respond to in his breaks. Barbara wasn't allowed to work out of those positions. In the title fight she sank her head in so beautifully, so adeptly on the grab, it completely eliminated the cross-faces and stalls. So, much more traditional reffing, and much better (in fact beautiful) entry techniques, and a hugely different result. I'd also say that Marie was much more forward in the August fight, especially the first rounds, which kept Barbara a little off balance, instead of just seeking the rope with her back. It prevented, or at least deflected Barbara's stalking, where she's in charge of the timing of exchanges. Also, Barbara was much more proactive with her hands earlier, in the title fight, incorporating them into her stalking, which complexified the pocket. But really none of these things were more important than the reffing, and the sink on the lock. Those differences completely transformed the result.

Campagna on Time leads into the idea that we are all producing Time (what he calls "Worlding") in each of our days, our existence, and that we also live in "a Time", a shape of things. This makes of Muay Thai's trad "Art of Producing Time" a certain marvelous imperative. I regularly emphasize the temporal nature of Golden Age fighting, that in a certain sense these were Time Battles between two elevated agonistic arts-of-time. In this sense, in the Campagna sense, the (rite-oriented) aspect of ring Muay Thai captures pure elements of Time creation. As he forwards the idea, the facticity of events in Time, in the past, are not what matter. You can get everything "wrong" about past events, even inverting outcomes or perhaps to some degree values, but the core of what "was" is its particular "art of producing Time", which is to say its unique, substantive way of placing events in relationship to each other, the qualitative expression of those events in narrative, the temporal changes and internal relations of those facts/events, basically...their "unfolding". The nature of their time. In this way, by analogy, in Golden Age fighting it is not the strikes, it is not the techniques, as isolated elements, that need to be passed on, it is their art of producing Time...because the art of producing Time is the fundamental fabric of our reality. How things unfold, much less than "what" is unfolded (though certainly there is some relation). * * * There was a minor event in the stadia last night where Naksu, Sylvie's training partner at Rambaa's, was knocked out (rather spectacularly) be a bicycle knee right up the middle. The immediate temptation is to "solve" this problem at the technical level. What was his guard like? What was his strike-choice? "How did that get through?" --- but the problem happened at the temporal level. The pace and rhythm with which Naksu was fighting, and the way that he would stall on the porch, resetting some, before an "attack"...lacking in Doh, created this knockout, a 15 year old against a seasoned 25 year old. Before the knockout you could see that the distances were all wrong, that his opponent was fighting in "his Time". In the battle of Times, Naksu was losing. The fight was early, the odds were mostly even, but Naksu was in a bad spot...in regards to Time. Its not always or even often that the mismatch of Time dominance results in such a clear and decisive blow. He could have easily missed and the fight could have gone onto a more complex femeu control, largely uneventful...or Naksu may have recovered his sense of Time, and begun imposing it upon his opponent in later rounds...but this knockout came almost entirely out of Time. The opponent was given their own temporality, and out of that they were able to draw out one of their more rare techniques...perfectly timed. The agonism of Time.

above, the cut back stem of our Adenium obesum "Desert Rose" and the bloom that came from the cutting, photo taken this morning Karuhat's Flower September 24th, 2024 - In the development of skills in Muay Thai everyone is trying to "add" things. New techniques, new training, new moves, new tricks. This is a desert Rose we bought when traveling with Karuhat in Isaan. We saw the unusual plant at a rest stop, it reminded me of the bulbous, massive trees in The Little Prince, so we bought one. He told us that in Thai it's called "The Show Stopper", or some rough equivalent to that, because its flowers were so stunning people walking by just have to stop and look. If you know Karuhat's Muay Thai, perhaps the most beautiful that's ever been, it seemed very fitting that we bought this plant with him. We're not gardeners, we keep a yard somewhat inexpertly. And we read up on the plant, how it has growing seasons, its general needs. But no matter what it did the flowers wouldn't come. Little proto-buds would show, and then die and drop off, even when the branches were verdant. He knows how to care for them, and would visit us and help steer us the right way. Here is an early visit when the plant was quite bare. It wouldn't flower for a year. He visited again and told us "You have to cut it back", and then told us about something you paint onto the cutting end to seal it, to force the lift energies into a bloom. Before Sylvie left to travel a week ago she cut it back here. A week later this bloom at photo top. This is the thing about Thailand's Muay Thai. It seems like when you come here its just this incredibly verdant fight culture. There are techniques and beautiful fighters, and gyms and krus everywhere. It feels like all this is quite natural, like it just spontaneously grew here, and as a fighter a lot of the times it feels like you are just walking around and picking wonderful fruits that you put in your fighter basket. You want this elbow here, and this guard over here. And this "combo" (there really aren't combos in Thailand's Muay Thai, but we turn it into combos so they can be exported). And, if you are Instagram and watching demos, you are collecting these techniques, some of them quite far removed from their source. The Secret of Restraint, of Cutting Away This is the secret about Thailand's Muay Thai. Once you have the plant well soiled, watered and fertilized, all those "flowers" that are loved come from pruning, from "cutting back". You cut back on the branch to produce the bloom. It's not an additive process. And this is the part of the art that simply isn't known much at all throughout the rest of the world...how to garden the muay of a fighter. Everyone is copying flowers, picking them off branches, mixing them with aggression, trying to change the rules of the sport to force more and more flowers (knockouts, etc)...but the actual gardening of the art is dying. Which branches need to be cut back and when? This is one of the concerns with the new commercialized much more aggressive versions of Entertainment Muay Thai. Some of most important cutting backs and prunings of Muay Thai occur at the emotional level, almost a spiritual level. It grows at the root of many of our impulses toward violence. Feelings of anger, even rage, are intentionally prune back. They are not the emotions of action (like they are often in the West). The pruning back of these feelings and their display is one of the most important aspects of Thailand's Muay Thai, and is probably quite close to the reason why it produces such beautiful blooms, blooms that are the envy of the world. It's because, even though being one of the most violent combat sports (at times), it is traditionally powerfully cut back at the emotional level. The Technical and Psychological An example of the unpruned emotion can be seen in Namkabuan's fights vs Matee. There is this highlight below where he somewhat spectacularly falls out of the ring and just jumps back in attacking, not even waiting for the ref to reset the fight. There is another when he unleashes wild elbows that make highlight reels, falling off balance but it all feeling like an onslaught. As mentioned below, for Namkabuan the whole thing felt very unpruned and wasn't something to be praised for. These are events that in Entertainment versions would be cheered on by shouting announcers and bounced all over IG streams...these moments of loss of control are almost the purpose of the new versions of Muay Thai, quietly undermining the life force art that gives Muay Thai its technical brilliance and even more so the sublime fights of the past. Namkabuan is now past, Rest in Power glorious legend. It is the control, but even more so, the pruning back of the plant that is the soul, if you want the bloom. When I see foreign fighters, who clearly train very, very hard in their techniques, unleashing high volume strikes, one after the other after the other after the other, often in memorized combinations they've learned on the pads and on the bag, their is a very real sense that this is a plant that is incredibly overgrown. There are leaves and leaves, but no blooms. They were like our plant, before Karuhat told us that it needs to be cut back. Unfortunately though, this is an art, and an aesthetic that isn't easily passed onto others, especially to non-Thais. That's because it comes from the Form of Life that is Thailand's Muay Thai, grown in its small kaimuay across the whole country, in its festivals and local stadia. In its urban gyms, its traditional stadia, within the gambers and their aesthetics. It's a cultural expression, but it is founded upon a sense of pruning back. Of gardening. When I saw this flower today I took a picture of it and sent it to Sylvie who as I mentioned is in Italy. I was just astounded at how fast and strong the bloom had come after we had been waiting for it for a year or more, simply by cutting it back (and knowing to paint the cutting over with a special mixture). The parallels to Muay Thai seemed so plentiful, for fighters very often try to develop certain techniques or qualities, often for years, but that "bloom" never comes, or only comes palely. I wanted to know how she saw process of pruning in Muay Thai, as she is a fighter who has engaged in the sport in Thailand like no other, just massive amounts of fights, the most prolific Western Muay Thai fighter in history, an unparalleled study with legends, and endless hours in the training ring. Here is he secret for blooms that are slow to come. Prune back. This is some of our conversation: vocabulary: Jangwah (จังหวะ) = rhythm, timing, Tammachat (ธรรมชาติ) = natural, indicated by being smooth & at ease, Ning (นิ่ง) = being at ease & unaffected, Mua (มัว) = obscure, clouded, confused Perspectives on Growth and Pruning There at least two very distinct but related levels to thinking about this. As a fighter, struggling to improve in the art, best is not to think primarily of additive processes. The pruning back of oneself, both at the level of techniques, tactics and strategy, but also at the emotional level very well may be the path to much strained for growth. To cut back isn't to "do less", its actually cutting off a living branch, sealing it off, so that its vital force will force itself out into bloom, further down, closer to the main stem. Technically, the main stems are the foundational principles and movements of the sport...which is why some of the most spectacular Muay Thai fighters of Thailand actually are fighting from place of basics. The second level of thinking about this is about the sport itself. We are told "Muay Thai has to grow!" or, "It's great that the sport is growing!" in its various new hybrid incarnations, many of them adopting Western or Internalized emotional pictures of fighting. Additive growth does not necessarily produce the flowers. And the tourism of Muay Thai is founded on the fact that it produces so many show stopping blooms, unparalleled skills and a form of fighting that exists nowhere else in the world. Right now, in this generation, we still have men who know how to prune in the art. They were raised in the kaimuay of traditional Muay Thai, they fought in its rings, and they understand the process of cutting back, the aesthetics of control. But this generation of knowledge is vulnerable. They are at an age already when maybe 10 more years and they'll no longer be shaping fighters. The processes of Muay Thai's creation lies withing their knowledge of its creation. It isn't in the "techniques". It isn't bio-mechanical. It's a spirit of understanding the flower of violence, and what it means for the human being...distilled into a craft, a craft of pruned-back fighting. btw, as a note, this is Arjan Surat who we mention in our texts. He is perhaps among the oldest of this last gen, holding pads every day in his 70s.

Hi, this might be out of the normal topic, but I thought you all might be interested in a book-- Children of the Neon Bamboo-- that has a really cool Martial Arts instructor character who set up an early Muy Thai gym south of Miami in the 1980s. He's a really cool character who drives the plot, and there historically accurate allusions to 1980s martial arts culture. However, the main thrust is more about nostalgia and friendships. Can we do links? Childrenoftheneonbamboo.com Children of the Neon Bamboo: B. Glynn Kimmey: 9798988054115: Amazon.com: Movies & TV