Jump to content

How to Avoid Foot Injuries - Using the Teep in Sparring


Recommended Posts

Before I started muay thai, I fight in sanda rules ("chinese kick-box", also with throws and leg grabs). 

I was always afraid to kick the body, because in sanda we rather use our feet, not shins, when we kick, and it was so painful when I accidentaly kicked my opponent's elbow. 

And my friend's foot broke actually by this: she kicked, and her opponent used elbow as a guard. 

 

I started muay thai, I've learnt to kick with my shins, and slowly I started to be "brave" enough to kick to the body. It's still painful when I kick an elbow, but my shins became harder 🙂

 

And now... We had sparring at training (2 weeks ago), my training partner was a beginner man.  He didn't know how to defense, or catch leg, he just moved instinctively. 

I teeped him - he pushed forward his elbows ---> extreme pain in my foot. 

Next day I couldn't stand on my injured foot, so I went to a hospital. 

X-Ray, diagnosis: IV. metatarsal bone is broken. 

 

I can't walk,  just with crutches, it means a month "rest". I hate it, I'm worried if it will be normal again, etc... 🙂

 

So, okay, I never experienced this, when I spar or fight with a non-starter opponent. I never used my elbow to defend a teep.

But really...  You can't strenghten up your feet.  And I don't want to be afraid to use teeps.  

How can you avoid this? 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh gosh! I'm so sorry to hear you have to deal with such a painful injury....This is exactly why I don't spar with beginners, I'm more scared of them then of a veteran, at least they know what they're doing.

I'm also scared of hurting my feet while teeping or doing a front kick to the body and I am currently working on this. For me - the key to dealing with the stress is control of the kick. When I see I can land the kick 99% sure, then I will kick it. If I see the opponent is seeing the kick and getting ready to block, I will stop my kick mid-movement. So basically, I decide last moment if I'm going through with it or not. So far it has worked out fine for me, I've landed a few kicks, had to withdraw from a lot more, but control control control is what rescues me.

I never had a broken foot, so I can only tell from observance, but a lot of people come back after some rehabilitation. It's important to take care of the healed foot, so you can't jump right into hard training with it, but you need to "teach" the new bone the strenght you want it to have. I don't know if this explanation is understandable, I hope it is! :) 

I hope your doctor allows you tokeep at least a bit active during the healing process, maybe you can do some light strenght excercises of the upper-body, or stretching? This way you won't have the feeling of wasting your time.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are two places where Thais teep which would be hard to catch an elbow from a beginner. Up higher above the solar plexis, and also very low on the abdomen. This lower teep can be very fatiguing. When Sylvie's been shown this low teep they usually use the ball of the foot, or sometimes even the toes. Also, practicing accuracy, instead of just a general mid-teep, could be more fun or challenging. Maybe Sylvie can hop on and talk about this lower teep. It's very effective.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to kick elbows more than I do now and, like Micc says, I think that's about control. Both you controlling your kick but also your opponent controlling their elbows! We all have reflexes though, so you can't rely on the other person having control all the time. If you're kicking the body, the more "upward" your kick goes (I call this the "farang kick") the more likely you're going to hit an elbow. If you kick "over" more, you'll nail the body under the elbow rather than kicking into it.

The teep Kevin mentions is one that a fighter named Paowarit (fight name Kae Sasiprapa) taught me. You teep with your toes right under the belly button. You don't use a great deal of power, but man... it hurts! It's like being stabbed more than being knocked back. Taking care when you teep someone is also a way to protect yourself. Defensive teeps are less likely to result in the flinch-response that people who drop their hands/elbows have with offensive teeps. So, wait until they're on one leg from a knee or kick and teep as a counter, rather than as a way to offensively come forward yourself.

And lastly, either request that your coach teach everyone drills on teep defense, so that your group of potential partners can learn how to appropriately sweep teeps without hurting each other, or at the very least work on this in a very controlled way with your partner before getting into sparring.

Sorry about your foot :pinch:   You can, of course, rest the injury while still working on other things. You don't have to stay out of the gym entirely.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am the king of foot injuries I think I've gotten some nasty metatarsal/toe injuries three times in the last six months. They take FOREVER to heal. Try to keep your feet elevated whenever you can, not a lot you can do to heal faster. I haven't figured out how to correct whatever I am doing, but they have all happened during offensive teeps while sparring. I think control and working on accuracy are great responses though. Practice, practice, practice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am the king of foot injuries I think I've gotten some nasty metatarsal/toe injuries three times in the last six months. They take FOREVER to heal. Try to keep your feet elevated whenever you can, not a lot you can do to heal faster. 

 

My doctor said, it takes 3 weeks to heal.  I was happy: "ok, that's nothing"

Well, now it was 19 days ago and I still can't stand on my foot.  When I wear shoes, it's better, but without shoes... hurts like the first day.  

knowthatfeel.jpg

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first and worst metatarsal injury I had took about 10 weeks to heal. Lol I couldn't believe it. I didn't take great care of it though, tried to tough it out and kept walking on it. I don't recommend that course of action lol. You might try getting a tub and filling it with really hot water to soak your foot, then switch to ice water. Just keep alternating. That seems to help me a little bit. Hope you heal up soon!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today I went back to the doctor, and he gave me this super-fashionable, pretty shoe... :D   I must wear it for 2 weeks, it looks terrible, but I can walk at least.
 

Now I'm watching Sylvie's training videos (tips, etc.... I'm really grateful to you,Sylvie :) ), reading muay thai articles, analyzing  fights... thinking about my movements, what I want to work on...     I feel that I'm learning, even if I can't practise now.  

 

9vfqx4.jpg

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Any advice on training with a broken toe? Unfortunately I caught an elbow while throwing a teep last night and my little toe snapped. I've had broken toes before, but that was before I trained muay thai. I'm not sure buddy tape will be effective once I start to sweat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Update: trained as usual. Switched to knees when kicks on that leg became too much (the inpact sort of reverberating the foot even though my foot wasn't hitting). Was able to donpretty much everything else without issue.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sparring in Muay Thai yet so this is very helpful on what NOT to do - of course I know not to go too hard or try to win (I have some experience in boxing) but I did not know about this awful elbow reflex.  We are drilling teep defense and I just thought of it as... teep defense.  I wonder if its possible to start a detailed thread on errors beginner's make in sparring (I've read Damian Trainor's post and Sean's somewhat similar one)?  I had just begun sparring in Muay Thai and felt like I had 15 limbs not 8 (when I got injured) so while I don't want to get all psyched out about it when I return, it would be great to know how to avoid common beginner mistakes above and beyond being the jackass who tries to "win".  Be gentle though - it sucks being a beginner and I will probably be one a long time!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any advice on training with a broken toe? Unfortunately I caught an elbow while throwing a teep last night and my little toe snapped. I've had broken toes before, but that was before I trained muay thai. I'm not sure buddy tape will be effective once I start to sweat.

Not much you can do with the little one, tape slid right off mine. As you said though it doesn't affect things too much, just take it easy! Heal up soon!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Most Recent Topics

  • Latest Comments

    • Really enjoyed this title fight between Jaroensook and Captainteam, a classic stand off between Muay Khao and Muay Femeu. Jaroensook is out of the Boon Lanna gym in Chiang Mai and Hill Tribe (and ethnic minority in the North) which has had some modest success in Muay Thai, and Captainteam is Kru Thailand's son, and one of the more femeu specialists in the sport now. I didn't really know Jaroensak so the first round mislead me. He looked really comfortable leading with hands and I thought he was going to be a Muay Maat fighter (Boon Lanna has had a few aggressive Muay Maat fighters), but in the second round he went straight into Muay Khao persistence hunting, never rushing, just getting positive entry positions (better than in the first round) and starting to foil TeamCaptain's excellent throw-game. I'm pretty much always going to subconsciously watch for Muay Khao vs the femeu specialist, so nothing against TeamCaptain (love Kru Thailand!), it was just great to see that classic match up and the dynamics of yore. Also the finish - which looked borderline foul-ish, but clean enough - came out of nowhere in a way that is exactly how Muay Khao style works. You just start slowly degrading the ruup of the femeu fighter, not really winning the point fighting game, not even looking like you are having an effect yet, but then suddenly a door opens, the ruup is broken and open just for a moment and your "doh" (your continuous rhythms) just take the opening almost unconsciously.    It's also kind of cool to see Jaroensak achieve some clinch position success with a variety of Long Clinch, a style of clinch somewhat perfected by Tanadet Tor Pran.49. Below is a film study I edited together of his approach: This is an article we put out on Tanadet's Long Clinch style with video and screenshots.  Jaroensak doesn't lay out quite like Tanadet, and doesn't have full, wide manipulative base, but several times he got very strong positions in the clinch passing into Long Clinch dynamics for a few beats. Tanadet is Hill Tribe and from Chiang Mai, so I wonder if there was some influence or cross-over? He used to additionally train at the original Lanna Muay Thai, the gym Boon's gym has grown out of. You can find Tanadet's Muay Thai Library sessions here where he teaches the Long Clinch technique and style: #56 Tanadet Tor. Pran49 - Mastering Long Clinch (63 min) watch it here This is one of the most interesting and, if mastered, dominant clinch positions one can use, and the entire session is devoted to it. I filmed with young Long Clinch master Tanadet, and discover all the small refinements he created that turned what for many fighters is just a transitional position, into an entire system of attack. This is a rare session, capturing a little known and used clinch system.
    • There can be no doubt that Thailand's culture is a hybriding culture, a synthesizing culture that has grown from the root weaving diversity from influences around the world, reaching well back to when the Ayuthaya Kingdom was the commercial hub for the entire mercantile region, major influences stretching in trade all the way to China and all the way to Europe, if not further, while - and this is important - still maintaining its own Siamese (then Thai) character, a character that was both in great sympathy towards these integrative powers, but also in tension or contest with them. This being said, I think there is a rather profound misunderstanding of the nature of Thailand's traditional Muay Thai and the meaning and value of its underpinnings in the culture, when seen from the West, and this is the (at times) assumed majority of thinking of fighting as "labor", and the rewards or marking of that labor as some kind of "wage". This is often the conceptual starting place from which Westerners think about the value and possible injustices of Thailand's Muay Thai, often boiled down to the question: Is the fighter getting a "fair wage"?  I do think there are strong and important wage oriented justice scales that can be applied, but mostly these are best done in the contemporary circumstances of Thailand's new commodification of Muay Thai itself...that is to say, to turn traditional commitments and performances INTO labor, that is to say, to capitalize it. It is then that the question of labor and wage holds the best ground. But, the question of wage or payment fairness really is doing another operation, often without intent, which is by reframing traditional Muay Thai in terms of labor and wage, along with the strong normative, Capitalist sense that such labor should exist freely in a labor market of some kind, one is already deforming traditional Muay Thai itself, and in a certain sense perhaps...adding to its colonization, or at least its transmutation into a globalized, commodified humanity, something I would suggest the core values of traditional Muay Thai (values that actually draw so many Western adventure-tourists to its homeland), stand in anchored opposition to. To be sure, Capitalism is deeply interwoven into the fabric of Thai culture, and has been for much of the 20th century, but this weave is perhaps best understood terms of how Siam/Thailand's traditional Muay Thai is of the threads of greatest resistance to Capitalism itself (along with its atomizing, individualizing, labor/wage concept of human beings). When we think of the values that not only motivate fighters, but also structure and give meaning to their fighting, at least across the board of the Muay Thai subculture, we really are not in the realm of individualizied workers who sell their labor within a labor market. (This mischaracterization is perhaps most egregious when discussing Child and Youth fighting from a Western perspective, where it is very commonly repictured as "child labor" (ignoring the degree to which such terminology completely recasts the entire question of the meaning and value of fighting itself, within Thai culture). We are instead within a realm of traditional pre-Capitalist values (which themselves have morphed with tension with Capitalizing forces), a world of craft (not "work"), composed of strong social hierarchies that are in constant agonism with each other, where fighting is probably best understood as struggle over Symbolic Capital (with some modification to Bourdieu's concept). The traditional Muay Thai world is primarily not a world of labor and wage - anymore than, to use an even more traditional example, novice monks should be considered to be doing "labor" in wats and monestariess, for the (some would regard as false) "wage" of spiritual merit. Instead, the meaning and value of such commitments and performances are embedded within the traditional frame itself (a frame which can be examined or challenged for ethical failures, to be sure), and to extract them from that embedded value system and its attendant, inculcating motivations, is to subvert the very nature of Thailand's traditional Muay Thai.  It doesn't mean that Thai Muay Thai fighters don't fight "for" money, or that money's paid or won do not matter, in fact in a gambling-driven sport - gambling driven at its very first roots, both in terms of history and in terms of apprenticeship - money amounted indeed matter a great deal. It's just that the labor / wage framework is a significantly inadequate, and in fact destructively transformative in its inaccuracy (even when well-motivated).  This conceptual misunderstanding from the West is even made more complicated in that today's traditional Muay Thai is fast adapting to new "labor" style economic pressures, in the sense that fighters are increasingly working more - in a hybrid sense - in the tourism economy, both in gyms were they have to train and partner Westerners, and in the ring where they have to fight in a transformed way in Entertainment tourism vs Western tourists (tourist who may be viewed as both customers purchasing Thai services and also as discounted laborers), all with the economic view that the Western visitor holds a certain degree of economic priority. Traditional Thais are pressed now in towards becoming something more like laborers, while still maintaining many if not most of the customary motivations and the embedded values of Muay Thai, kaimuay subculture, leaving analysis perhaps best to a case by case basis.     
    • Welcome to the dark side. Honestly, the "blue belt" equivalent in Muay Thai is when you stop flinching during sparring and actually land a clean teep.  If you're training 2-3 times a week, you'll probably reach that "competent" level in about 18 months. Striking is weird because a lucky punch from an untrained giant can still suck, but by then you'll have the footwork to make them look silly.
  • The Latest From Open Topics Forum

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      1.4k
    • Total Posts
      11.6k
×
×
  • Create New...