Persistent Foot Pain - Advice (Split from the Overtraining Post)

[Maya Flores]

I had a question about foot pain and being newly active physically. Before muay thai, I never really exercised. I took a judo course at the university and a dance class, but those were requirements, and I was already 30 years old when I started being active in actual sports. I've never competed before, or been on a team, not even in junior high. I'm 32 years old now, and I have been consistent with muay thai since May of this year (I was only going 1-3 times a week for about a year before that, very sporadically). "Consistent" nowadays means that I try to go every day for 1-2.5 hours, 5 days a week, for formal muay thai training. Anyways, my body is unaccustomed to physical activity any harder than clubbing at a dance club until about 8 months ago.

My feet feel pain on a low level pretty much most of the day, outside of muay thai. During muay thai, my feet don't hurt. I can pivot okay, I can go up on my toes okay, but when I get home and walk around normal, the joints in my toes and in my feet feel sore and I have to kind of hobble around a little. I constantly crack my big toe, which bothers me if I do not crack it. Standing up from sitting makes me lean forward as my weight hits my feet and the pain makes me unsteady. My question is whether my history of inactivity is causing symptoms of "overtraining" or perhaps "not resting enough after training" symptoms?

I have had an ankle sprain since starting muay thai (jump rope) and I took anti-inflammatory pills to reduce pain for that. The doctor gave me instructions to warm up with specific ankle exercises (rotate ankle in circle for like a minute each). I do those exercises, but I would like to know what to do about my toes and foot joints. I kind of modified the ankle stretching exercises to incorporate my foot joints (like bouncing on the toes of one foot to stretch the toes), but I still experience the throbbing in my toe joints, around the metatarsals and phalanges (although the area along the inside of my foot like the cuneiform hurts, too). 

Liniment oil? Massage? Heat treatment? for how long? I took a long rest over the holidays while the gym was closed, but my toes and feet joints are kind of throbbing at a low level right now, despite that. I asked my kru and he said to ice it or put heat on it, which I have started doing this weekend.

Will my feet adjust to the rigors of muay thai over time or should I add something for joint management? I haven't taken ibuprofen or anything else, just the anti-inflammatory pills about a year ago and a lot of Icy Hot gel.

Thank you!!  :bunny: *dance club bunny dance dance

[NewThai]

Try an epsom soak?

[Maya Flores]

Try an epsom soak?

Thanks! :-D 

[Micc]

I would try two big things apart from pills and soaks. It will propably cost a bit, but if you don't know what to do, it won't hurt to try it.

1) massages by a knowledgable practicioner - I'm no pro, but from what you describe the cause could be in your back or hips, not necesserly your foot. it could be a nerve being pressed by something in your back, or a strained tendon.

Try finding someone who does sport massages/rehabilitation. Of course you should describe your case beforehand, but if they don't even touch your back, they're not good and you should look for another one. They should give you an overall body check, pressing various trigger points during the massage - not only on the foot, but also leg, hip, back. Maybe someone at your gym can recommend you a good sports masseur?

(From my experience: I went to a few different fully-qualified masseurs, but only when I found a guy you massaged a football/soccer team in his younger years was where I found my match - it hurts like hell, but helps. I never go to anyone else for a back massage :D He has clients who come from the USA to visit their Polish families from time to time and they book a few sessions with him, because they say there's noone who massages as good as him overseas, so...I'm sorry :P :D :D)

2) Instep (I'm not sure the word is right?) - like, inner shoe soles. Find a place that analyzes your feet and the way you move with a computer programme and then prepares individualized insoles. It might hurt to wear them for the first 2-3 weeks, but it pays off. Also, if you find a place that makes pressed copies of your feet to make insoles - that's even better! This way with the insole you compensate various distabilized parts of your feet - and lift pressure from areas that are not well because of that pressure. 

(I found a place that does the computer programme ones in an orthopeadic center. It wasn't covered by my health insurance, I paid the equivalent of 60$ for everything: the feet examination and analyse, as well as the insoles itself - but I assume it will cost more in the US)

I'm not sure this post is understandable in English :D :D but I tried my best to explain!

[Maya Flores]

I would try two big things apart from pills and soaks. It will propably cost a bit, but if you don't know what to do, it won't hurt to try it.

1) massages by a knowledgable practicioner - I'm no pro, but from what you describe the cause could be in your back or hips, not necesserly your foot. it could be a nerve being pressed by something in your back, or a strained tendon.

Try finding someone who does sport massages/rehabilitation. Of course you should describe your case beforehand, but if they don't even touch your back, they're not good and you should look for another one. They should give you an overall body check, pressing various trigger points during the massage - not only on the foot, but also leg, hip, back. Maybe someone at your gym can recommend you a good sports masseur?

(From my experience: I went to a few different fully-qualified masseurs, but only when I found a guy you massaged a football/soccer team in his younger years was where I found my match - it hurts like hell, but helps. I never go to anyone else for a back massage :D He has clients who come from the USA to visit their Polish families from time to time and they book a few sessions with him, because they say there's noone who massages as good as him overseas, so...I'm sorry :P :D :D)

2) Instep (I'm not sure the word is right?) - like, inner shoe soles. Find a place that analyzes your feet and the way you move with a computer programme and then prepares individualized insoles. It might hurt to wear them for the first 2-3 weeks, but it pays off. Also, if you find a place that makes pressed copies of your feet to make insoles - that's even better! This way with the insole you compensate various distabilized parts of your feet - and lift pressure from areas that are not well because of that pressure. 

(I found a place that does the computer programme ones in an orthopeadic center. It wasn't covered by my health insurance, I paid the equivalent of 60$ for everything: the feet examination and analyse, as well as the insoles itself - but I assume it will cost more in the US)

I'm not sure this post is understandable in English :D :D but I tried my best to explain!

Thanks so much! By some weird hand of fate, my friend and training buddy at the muay thai gym is a licensed massage therapist!! I will totally ask her about her schedule and if she knows anything about sports massage (I only know she does deep tissue for sure).

I will check with my insurance provider about seeing a foot doctor, that is also a good idea. :-D

Yes, your English was great! 

[Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu]

 

My feet feel pain on a low level pretty much most of the day, outside of muay thai. During muay thai, my feet don't hurt. I can pivot okay, I can go up on my toes okay, but when I get home and walk around normal, the joints in my toes and in my feet feel sore and I have to kind of hobble around a little. I constantly crack my big toe, which bothers me if I do not crack it. Standing up from sitting makes me lean forward as my weight hits my feet and the pain makes me unsteady. My question is whether my history of inactivity is causing symptoms of "overtraining" or perhaps "not resting enough after training" symptoms?

Will my feet adjust to the rigors of muay thai over time or should I add something for joint management? I haven't taken ibuprofen or anything else, just the anti-inflammatory pills about a year ago and a lot of Icy Hot gel.

Thank you!!  :bunny: *dance club bunny dance dance

 

I have this also. When I wake up in the mornings I hobble for a few minutes and my feet are incredibly sore. I have worse periods and better periods, but when I first started experiencing it I figured out that it might be coming from going up on my toes and back down to flat foot over and over again for strikes on the bag and padwork and shadow. I would notice that I was fine actually doing my padwork, but when I stopped and got down off the ring to walk flat-foot on the ground I was hobbling. I think it's stress from the Achilles Tendon - I've heard that if you wear high heels all day (or night), you're supposed to stretch your Achilles out before taking them off and walking flat-foot because you can actually snap it. I'm sure that's not common, but it means that the tendon needs a little TLC.

Obviously, I'm not a doctor. But I started using a foam roller (well, my version of one) on my Achilles Tendons before and after training. You get on your knees, tops of your feet on the floor. Put the foam roller on the Achilles, behind your heels and under your calves, and slowly lower your butt weight onto the roller to apply pressure to your tendons. I do that for maybe a minute or two. And then when I would get home from the gym I roll my arches out using a rubber lacrosse ball - a tennis ball works too, but the lacrosse ball is harder/firmer. This all helps with my aching feet A LOT. Trying to keep those tendons supple will prevent further injury and should help to reduce what you're already feeling. By my experience, anyway.

[Michelle Nicole]

I'm in agreement with Micc and Sylvie. Another possible thing is plantar fasciitis. Also idk what your day job is like or what types of shoes you wear, but I pronate super hard on my left foot because one leg is shorter than the other. And I've found that when I go to kick or move in general I start to pronate and supinate (i think that's what it is called, where you walk on the outer edges of your feet) to compensate for putting stress on one side too much. I would definitely look into an overall evaluation though, because it could be something as simple as a misalignment. Ie, when my hips move because my hip flexors tighten on one side over the other, I'll have back, knee, calf, and foot problems. Also, one last possibility I can think of is a situation similar to turf toe. A few months back I stepped into a hole and bent my toes too far back, and the pain from it was killer. I couldn't walk on it for a few days. But when going up on your toes, maybe you're bending them too far back possibly? Or it could be from kicking the bag. I've had that fuck up my toes a lot. My second toes knuckles are really big now from repeat injury, and still hurt to walk on occasionally.

[Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu]

I'm in agreement with Micc and Sylvie. Another possible thing is plantar fasciitis. Also idk what your day job is like or what types of shoes you wear, but I pronate super hard on my left foot because one leg is shorter than the other. And I've found that when I go to kick or move in general I start to pronate and supinate (i think that's what it is called, where you walk on the outer edges of your feet) to compensate for putting stress on one side too much. I would definitely look into an overall evaluation though, because it could be something as simple as a misalignment. Ie, when my hips move because my hip flexors tighten on one side over the other, I'll have back, knee, calf, and foot problems. Also, one last possibility I can think of is a situation similar to turf toe. A few months back I stepped into a hole and bent my toes too far back, and the pain from it was killer. I couldn't walk on it for a few days. But when going up on your toes, maybe you're bending them too far back possibly? Or it could be from kicking the bag. I've had that fuck up my toes a lot. My second toes knuckles are really big now from repeat injury, and still hurt to walk on occasionally.

Good call on the plantar fasciitis. I remember looking that up for heel pain and thinking, "God, I hope I don't have this." I think it was heel spurs for me that time.

[Maya Flores]

I actually did get seen for plantar, but the physician said it wasn't plantar!! I am surprised that you (michelle) guessed that, because I had another muay thai student also tell me to get seen for plantar back when I first started in muay thai!! She was an advanced student who noticed my limp in the beginning of class and had asked about it. I said it was probably an old heel injury and she said maybe it was plantar-something. She said there was a steroid shot and to go to a doctor, which is why I went home and went to the doctor about foot pain! The doctor said it was a good guess, but that I didn't have some kind of tell tale thingy that plantar has. I asked her for that steroid injection that people with plantar can get and the pain goes away, but she said no (I got anti-inflammatory pills that time). She asked what I was "using my feet for," lol, and I told her kickboxing from Thailand. She asked me to describe the movements so I stood there and kind of pantomimed a knee, an elbow, etc. I didn't think to ask her directly if there was a link between the foot movements and the discomfort.

I just assumed it was some kind of injury or joint issue, but now I wonder if it's the super specific movements done repeatedly (like Sylvie said). 

I'll try to get seen by a general physician this coming month and I will ask about the repetition of foot movements in muay thai! I will come here and post what s/he says. :)

Oh yea, I hope it's not that I'm hyperextending my toes because I always get told to pivot more and get up on my toes more, hahaha! Thank you, Michelle!

[Michelle Nicole]

Plantar is excruciating and an even bigger pain to deal with, so I am glad you don't have it.

[Maya Flores]

Guess who went to a general practitioner and asked specifically about my chronic foot pain? Me! So, basically, they said if it's not plantar (which they decided it wasn't because the pain is more on the insole than on the underside), than it must be from repetitive movements. I had both a young doctor and his attending doctor supervisor present, so I got both their advice. Their advice was to stop all physical activity for a minimum of one and a half weeks and then go back to exercising after that time period. They said this would give the foot time to heal itself and adjust to the strain without aggravating or worsening the condition. 

I decided I might go 3-4 out of 7 days for a few weeks before going back to training 5-6 days, that should count, right? I missed a ton during the holidays anyways (and gained weight, too) and I can't afford to miss two weeks, so I'm just going to take an extra day or two off during the week and use epsom salt soak on my feet like NewThai said to, and also I'll do stretches like Sylvie recommended.

Right now, I dump some epsom salt into the shower and plug up the drain so that my feet can soak in the salted water while I shower. Then, I go to the gym and do little foot flexibility stretches. I also crack my toes a lot. This seems to help lately. Thanks for the advice, everyone!