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All the Great Things That Are Available to Patrons


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This is the outgoing message that I send to all my patrons when they join. It describes all the different and many things you get access to when you become a patron, including the Library, documentary projects, Technique Vlogs, interviews, and much more.

Glad to have you a part of my Patreon project. You are not only providing support for my full time training and fighting as I push to incredible, impossible goals including one day achieving a world record “most fights ever” 471 documented pro fights, a record which has stood since boxer Len Wickwar established it in 1947  (link: https://8limbsus.com/muay-thai-thailand/fights-ever-chasing-len-wickwar-untouchable-record ), you are also buoying the 8limbsus.com blog home to over 1,000 articles I’ve written so far, and its newly designed Muay Thai forum (link: https://8limbsus.com/muay-thai-forum/ ) where in-depth discussions can be had, and the second Sylvie Study site (link: http://www.sylviestudy.com/ ) which contains the most in depth video study of Thai legends ever. Not only this.

A Great Way To Follow The Library: Instagram

We’ve got a great Instagram account that’s just for Muay Thai Library clips, news and history about the Legends, and basically a way to navigate the Library as it’s become so big now that many people aren’t sure where to start. You can see a clip from a session and then go watch the full hour in the Muay Thai Library. Be sure to follow that account for clips, stories, history, etc. https://www.instagram.com/themuaythailibrary/

The Muay Thai Library Table of Contents

Importantly you are a part of the Muay Thai Library project (link: https://www.patreon.com/posts/muay-thai-join-7058199 ), which is the attempt to document the Muay Thai of over 250 krus and ex-fighters in Thailand, helping preserve that knowledge for future generations. The Library is constantly growing with more than one long form video added each month, so the easiest way to navigate it is through the Muay Thai Library page, which is like a Table of Contents: https://www.patreon.com/posts/muay-thai-uncut-7058199 where all the videos are listed with a brief description. You are funding all of these projects, and me as a fighter and a writer, and I do my best to bring you higher and higher quality content all the time.

Finding Your Way Around the Muay Thai Library

There are already over 160 hours of commentary video there, so even that contents list can be a little intimidating. 
We’ve created this in depth video as an introduction to the Muay Thai Library, along with our recommendations to what we think are the 10 Best Muay Thai Library sessions so far. Check it out: https://www.patreon.com/posts/54714010

The Library contains some of the most incredible instruction ever documented, so even though it is a large and intimidating archive it is worth taking the time to learn how to sort through it. You could spend a year studying a video a week and you would not run out of irreplaceable material. And individual sessions are worth multiple rewatches, as these include some of the greatest fighters and krus Thailand has ever seen. People support the Library for a variety of reasons. Some out of respect for the Golden Age of Muay Thai, and enjoy learning about and seeing great fighters and techniques of the past. Some people are students who are looking for authentic Thai techniques, taught in the context of real fighting styles (and not in demos). And some who have trained in Thailand and do not find themselves here feel transported back to the land and art that they love through these videos. But, whatever your reasons, it’s good to find ways to get into the sessions. 

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If you are new to the Library this post is a great place to start. It contains an hour discussion by Kevin and myself on our favorite don't-miss sessions as well as helpful material on navigating the Muay Thai Library and finding the best things to study.

So aside from our intro video (link: https://www.patreon.com/posts/54714010 ) shortcuts into exploring the material of the Library can be found on the post page (link: https://www.patreon.com/sylviemuay/posts ). There you will find ways to filter the material by type. 

If you are a more of a beginner you can watch instructionals with top fighters that are The Basics (link: https://www.patreon.com/sylviemuay/posts?tag=MTL%3A The Basics ). If you are a Knee Fighter, you can watch videos that focus more on knee and clinch fighting under the Muay Khao filter (link: https://www.patreon.com/sylviemuay/posts?tag=MTL%3A Muay Khao ) (an area of fighting that is under-documented). If you want to focus on sessions in particular with Legends of the sport, go to the Legends tab (link: https://www.patreon.com/sylviemuay/posts?tag=MTL%3A Legends Only ) and you’ll see sessions with some of the greatest fighters ever, many of which have never been filmed in this way. If you are Southpaw, you can find sessions that are Southpaw oriented (link: https://www.patreon.com/sylviemuay/posts?tag=MTL%3A Southpaw ) These are just a few examples, so check out all the filters. 

Also. A great way to hop around in the Muay Thai Library is to watch our sessions which document all the Fighters of the Year, thus far. These are fighters which dominated specific years in the history of the sport and attained special recognition:

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You can always find these listed separately in the Table of Contents (which should be your touchstone), but we'll list them here too:

The 16 Fighters of the Year in the Library:

Yodwicha  (2012): #10 The Clinch Techniques of Yodwicha - Session 2 (34 min) watch it here and #4 Yodwicha - Clinch and Muay Khao (Knee) Specialist (35 min) - watch it here and #99 Yodwicha Por Boonsit 3 - Spearing the Middle, Fighting With Rhythm (66 min) watch it here

Singdam  (2002):  #22 Singdam Kiatmoo9 - Making the Basics Beautiful (71 min) watch it here

Namsaknoi (1996):  #65 Namsaknoi Yudthagarngamtorn - Sharking The Angles (67 min) watch it here  and  #73  Namsaknoi Yudthagarngamtorn 2 - Overcoming Distance (61 min) watch it here

Wangchannoi (1993):  #93 Wangchannoi Palangchai - Deadly Step Counter Fighting (70 min) - watch it here  and #95 Wangchannoi Sor. Palangchai #2 - The Secret Powers of a Cool Heart (77 min) watch it here

Jaroensap (1992): #91 Jaroensap Kiatbanchong - Silky Power (63 min) watch it here

Samson (1991):  #41  Samson Isaan 1 - The Art of Dern Fighting (64 min) watch it here  and   Samson Isaan 2 - Muay Khao & Western Boxing Excellence (59 min) watch it here  and #116 Samson Isaan 3 - Dern Pressure Fighting & Defense (44 min) watch it here #123 Samson Isaan 4 - Secrets Of His Pressure Fighting (122 min) watch it here

Kaensak (1989, 1990):  #24 Kaensak Sor. Ploenjit - Explosive Defense (55 min) watch it here

Samart (1981, 1983, 1988):  #34 Samart Payakaroon - Balance, Balance, Balance! (81 min) watch it here

Langsuan (1987):  #45 Langsuan Panyutapum - Monster Muay Khao Training (66 min) watch it here

Panomtuanlek (1986): #131 Panomtuanlek Hapalang - The Secret of Tidal Knees (100 min) watch it here

Chamuakphet (1985):  #49 Chamuakpet Hapalang - Devastating Knee in Combination (66 min) watch it here  #81  Chamuakpet Hapalang 2 - Muay Khao Internal Attacks (65 min) watch it here

Kongtoranee (1978, 1984):  #37 Kongtoranee Payakaroon - Power In The Hands (89 min) watch it here

Dieselnoi (1982):  #48 Dieselnoi Chor. Thanasukarn - Jam Session (80 min) watch it here  AND  #30 Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukarn 2 - Muay Khao Craft  (42 min) watch it here  AND  #3 Dieselnoi  Chor Thanasukarn  - The King of Knees (54 min) - watch it here #76 Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukarn 4 - How to Fight Tall (69 min) watch it here

Padejseuk (1979): Padejseuk Pitsanurachan - Old School Greatness (67 min) watch it here

Pudpadnoi (1975) - Pudpadnoi Worawut - The Basics from the Legend (72 min) watch it here

Sirimongkol (1972):  #54 The Late Sirimongkol and Lertrit Master General Tunwakom (81 min) watch it here

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go to all the Fighters of the Year in the Muay Thai Library here

 

It’s Not Only the Library

This patreon is incredibly large. I don’t really know any other patreon dedicated so much to fighting arts that is even close to it, and I’m always doing my best to expand what patrons get. So, aside from the Library videos I'm also writing exclusive articles for patrons, posting my fight video commentaries, creating Muay Thai burnouts conducting translated interviews with legends of the sport, and producing a Kai Muay Diaries series on the Thais and life at my gym in Pattaya. You can see a Table of Contents of this additional Patreon Only content here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/16559053 . I’m constantly adding to this.

Get more with the App

I’d also suggest that you download the Patreon mobile app. This is a very easy way to read through and watch the material. Not only are you alerted to newly published sessions, legends are now at your fingertips. You can be on the subway or be waiting for the doctor and just scroll through and watch all time greats like Dieselnoi or Samart teach Muay Thai, or you can read my latest Muay Thai article. I also update on the app on my day as a fighter in short 15 second videos (24 hrs snapchat style) giving a window into what it’s like being me in Thailand. You can download the app here:  blog.patreon.com/lens 


The Patreon Forum

With the help of patrons I’ve been able to establish and maintain an online forum, where all sorts of Muay Thai questions and subjects can be discussed and answered. You can find the forum here: Muay Thai Roundtable: 
Within that forum there is a Patreon Muay Thai Library sub-forum where we can talk about particular sessions, or krus and legends archived in the Library:
https://8limbsus.com/muay-thai-forum/forum/18-patreon-muay-thai-library-conversations/ (where you are right now!)
It’s very easy to join the forum, you can quickly do it with your email, or even with Facebook. As patrons, I’d love to see you there.

The Roundtable Muay Thai Forum even has a one of a kind women only section where women who are passionate about the sport can talk about their experiences in ways they might not in mixed gender spaces:
https://8limbsus.com/muay-thai-forum/forum/7-womens-roundtable-women-only/
This is a one of a kind digital space that is only made possible through patron support.

 

The Vimeo Karuhat (and Yodkhunpon) Intensive

Lastly, even though the Muay Thai Library is an incredible documentary project, full of videos you can watch and study over and over again, it gave rise to a big parallel project, the Sylvie Study Intensive, which you can find over at sylviestudy.com. This is the same kind of idea as the Muay Thai Library, but instead of single sessions with a legend, it’s up to 30 or more sessions with a single legend, allowing you to watch an entire style being taught, in serious depth. Currently the great champion Karuhat has been documented in over 33 hours of commentary video, and 7 hours Yodkhunpon, the Elbow Hunter, has been added. 100% of the profit from these series goes to Karuhat & Yodkhunpon.  These are the most detailed documentation of martial and fighting arts ever made. And the legends get 100% of the net profits from these videos with are all on Vimeo On Demand. You can find and subscribe or rent/purchase any of these sessions  (link:

So, you can read up on all those intensive sessions on sylvie study (link: http://www.sylviestudy.com/ ), read breakdown and training vlog, and watch lots of free video (link: http://www.sylviestudy.com/type/video/ ) excerpts from them. Sylvie Study is kind of a sister site to this Patreon, and outgrowth of the mission to document Thai techniques in depth, and to open discussion about them. Here’s a cool of example of the kind of content you’ll find over there, my vlog on the Principle of Continuity as I discovered by training with Karuhat:
http://www.sylviestudy.com/intensive-training-vlog-on-continuity-training-vlog-8-47-min/sylvie/

Patrons of the $15 and $5 levels get discount codes to the Intensive session series.

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go to the 50% off promocode for $15 patrons here

promocode.thumb.PNG.c5fca75b0f818fa6279427adfd5b0bff.PNG.go to the 15% off promocode for $5 patrons

You can subscribe for free to the Sylvie Study Intensive here (link: https://8limbs.us10.list-manage.com/subscribe/post?u=ff6c8949c1c59e44f9e57a9e8&id=81cf1bec4c )  and not miss any of those in-depth posts. Examples of the kinds of posts you’ll get are this Yodkhunpon post on developing (link: http://www.sylviestudy.com/that-gallop-episode-22-yodkhunpon-intensive-day-1-64-min/sylvie/ ) elbow fighting techniques, or my husband’s breakdown of the internal games from Southpaw found in Karuhat’s style. Secrets of Karuhat’s Style (link: http://www.sylviestudy.com/the-secrets-of-karuhats-style-four-internal-games-from-southpaw/kevin/ ).

And That Is Not All - podcasts

The conversation about Muay Thai is so rich Kevin and I have started the Muay Thai Bones Podcast, recorded on our very long drives across Thailand. We discuss everything under the sun about Muay Thai in all the detail we can muster, you basically get to go on road trip with us. We put our Muay Thai Bones podcasts up on YouTube so everyone can enjoy them, you can find my Playlist of those here:

But, as patrons you have access to the Apple or Android audio version of Muay Thai Bones. You can find out how to access those episodes here:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/29726337

These are completely epic podcasts, sometimes more than 3 hours long, and patrons have absolutely been loving them. I hope you enjoy them too!

We’ve also added podcast versions of new Muay Thai Library sessions, so you can listen to the commentary and our post filming conversations on deep lessons in the session.

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go to all the Muay Thai Library podcasts here

In any case, thank you for your monthly support. You are making this incredible project and all these channels possible, and I’m doing my best to keep bringing you the video and articles that enrich your love of Muay Thai. We are doing this together. I’m always happy to hear from my patrons, so be free to share any of your Patreon Muay Thai Library thoughts and experiences on my Community Page (link: https://www.patreon.com/sylviemuay/community )  If you find a session you really love write about it there, or any thoughts about what would make this Patreon even better!

Where You Can Find Me

If you’d like to keep up with me and all that I’m doing:

A shorthand link to all my links is here:
https://linktr.ee/sylviemuay

Individually you can see them here:

My main Muay Thai FB Page 
all my updates thoughts, and shares 
(link: https://web.facebook.com/pg/sylviemuaythai/posts/ )

Muay Thai Techniques - Preserve The Legacy FB Page - focuses on Thai techniques and the history of Muay Thai 
(link: https://www.facebook.com/preservethelegacy/ )

My YouTube Channel over 12 million views  
(link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgFe05f-DrPpaunE4Gaz3cQ )

Sylvie on Twitter
(link:

Follow me on Instagram
(link: https://www.instagram.com/sylviemuay/ )

And importantly, follow the Muay Thai Library on Instagram here:
https://www.instagram.com/themuaythailibrary/


Follow my husband’s photography at Muaynoir.com  (prints are available for sale, profits benefit the Legends and Krus) and at https://www.behance.net/muaynoir

https://8limbsus.com/ - my Muay Thai blog with over 1,000 articles already published and more always in the works

The Roundtable Muay Thai Forum - 8limbsus.com - where longer forum discussion can be had with like-minded people, and all your questions answered. (You're on it)
(link: http://8limbs.us/muay-thai-forum/ )

Sylvie Study Intensive website - sylviestudy.com - really in-depth discussion and video documentation of some of the greatest fighters who ever fought. Subscribe here.
(link: http://www.sylviestudy.com/ )
(link: https://8limbs.us10.list-manage.com/subscribe/post?u=ff6c8949c1c59e44f9e57a9e8&id=81cf1bec4c )

Vimeo On Demand - Sylvie Study Intensive - where you can subscribe to, rent or buy Sylvie Study Intensive videos in the series.
(link:

Follow me on Reddit 
(link: https://www.reddit.com/user/sylviemuay )

Muay Thai Bones Podcast:
https://www.patreon.com/sylviemuay/posts?tag=Muay Thai Bones


 

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    • Some of my thoughts on the weigh-in change, and how it reflects back onto deeper aspects of how Thailand's Muay Thai is fought, in this Reddit thread: Recently announced. This should produce much bigger weight differences in the ring, move towards even more power and forward aggression combination fighting, and the diminishment of skilled (femeu) fighting (the longtime hallmark of Thailand's art and sport), and should favor farang who are larger bodied and often more versed in Western style day-before, deeper cut weight drops. It also seems like it will put a greater burden on small kaimuay and provincial fighters, as they would have to come to Bangkok the day before a fight, increasing fight expenses when often its hard to even break even on fights (perhaps there will be some support?). For the longest time day-of weigh-ins were the standard of legit matchup Thai trad fighting. Silently this change could have long lasting effects. and As I mention above (here) there are some aspects about Thai traditional scoring that also keep deep weight cutting in check (these are things people are also trying to change to a more Western style). Thais can cut the way that they do, same day, in part because of how the sport is fought and judged. You just can't cut too deep and still win. Also, Thai trad weight cutting is very different. It's not about making huge plunges close to the fight. It's incrementally getting closer to the weight, with its own science and knowledge. and It's a National PAT (SAT) rule change. It's supposed to cover all Muay Thai, part of a "Grassroots to International" effort. Entertainment Muay Thai was already headed there, or there, so this most dramatically effects traditional stadium Muay Thai in Bangkok I imagine, and major trad promotions. Enforcement of rules in Thailand is quite varied, so I imagine it pragmatically has little to do with trad fighting in the provinces (?) unless a part of the new gov outreach there. (just guessing). Have no idea what it means for fighting in tourist centers like Phuket or Chiang Mai. and Some of deep weight cutting was constrained by two things in trad day-of fighting. The first was because you were fighting later that day you were really limited in how far you could effectively go...but the second hidden aspect is that because trad scoring aesthetics have of a lot of subtle by important aspects to them (ie, they aren't entirely about "points" or "damage" but involve things like "ruup" [posture] and balance), you couldn't really go into the ring very depleted...your ruup and just your substance as a fighter would be down-scored. This was even more reinforced by Thai narrative scoring aesthetics (which a lot of Westerners get upset about). If you FADE in a fight you are penalized, because the fight has an arc to it. You have to be strong in round 4 or you just won't win. This, combined with the same day weigh-in, created a natural barrier for how low you could go. You have to have stamina. You can't artificially pad your lead with early rounds point wins, and coast in the 4th. One of things people don't realize is that if you chop away at the narrative scoring structure (the new rules start heading in this direction), and at trad scoring aesthetics AND add deeper weight cuts, this produces a huge swing which could be dangerous. They are mixing Thai and Western protocols and also Thai and Western fighting aesthetics in ways that I think haven't been completely thought about. Thai practices developed over many decades within their own sport. and Longtime Thais have a very precise understanding of how to cut weight in the trad scene, day-of weigh-in, trad scoring aesthetics. Western weight cutting, and weight cutting competition trends will start to seep in. This is pretty dangerous in my view, because knowledge of how to do the deeper cuts will communicate itself very unevenly. Already there is a lot of pseudo "Sports Science" stuff floating around Thailand, often via lightly qualified farang who offer themselves as advisors or coaches. Lots of Thais will end up having partial or just plain mis- information about how to cut in a Western fashion. Add in the common use of diuretics which amplifies issues. The Western cut is very different than the Thai cut. And mixing the two, or moving back and forth between them could be dangerous. Doing a Thai cut with a Water loading cut or a sodium loading cut, or deep Albolene sweat, who knows what can happen. At least IVs (which are very popular in Thailand) are plentiful, but still, there is danger here. Once pieces of information start entering the culture they can become a game of telephone. Spread this out over an entire sport and its asking for risks. and I suspect that one of the main reasons for this is actually economic...that is as Thailand's labor pool for fighters shrinks its harder to fill the many cards. This rule change means that a wider group of fighters are available for any particular match. Matchmakers are less constrained. Also, it happens to serve folding larger-bodied Westerners into the trad market...ie, they can fight much smaller Thais. This helps with the labor market some (more fighters to choose from), and also helps with Soft Power (selling the sport abroad). More Westerners fighting, and more Western winners (probably more Westerner belt holders as well). It really addresses in the short term several pragmatic issues, and it seems like its a government ambition to kind of codify all of Muay Thai, so that it can export the sport more readily, which is unfortunate because much of the sport's uniqueness and ultimate marketability in a deeper sense, relies on its uncodified, un-rationalized nature. I also am not sure if it just leads to everyone then using the same weight cutting practices, as for instance happens in Internationalized sports, because as I have mentioned in other comments, Thai cuts are very different than Western cuts, and the way that knowledge and practices disseminate in Thailand really is uneven. It's much more likely that Westerners will just hold a significant advantage, as will big Westernized or Western-informed Thai gyms (who already have large political advantages in the sport), and the smaller gyms and provincial fighters will not be able to play the same weight cutting game, and may even be led into dangerous hybrid or misinformed practices.
    • Well, the PAT announced 24-30 hr weigh-in, a huge change the sport. Get ready for tons of weight bullying (including bigger farang fighting small Thais in trad stadium fights). Basically for all practical reasons all weight classes have been expanded. This is in part in relationship to the labor crisis mentioned above, the capacity to draw from a wider range of fighters to fill cards. Trad Muay Thai will likely have greater skill disparities (shrinking talent pools) and now more massive size differences, as well as drawing in more farang who will become part of this solution. This will also likely mean more farang stadium/promotion belts in trad fighting. Of course laws in Thailand are unevenly forced, so there could be major hiccups in implementation, including a significant problem that fighters now have to come to Bangkok the day before, which means even greater costs to fight...which could ALSO shrink the fighter pool. Already many gyms, small kaimuay, have difficulty even breaking even in Bangkok fighting expenses. Will outlying fighters be able to regularly afford to come to fight in Bangkok, especially in a scene that favors the political power of major Bangkok gyms (they can't dependably recoup their expense by betting on their fighters).  These changes could have a massive stylistic impact on Thailand's trad Muay Thai over time, as it gives even more advantage to size and power. Saenchai was famous for his criticism of the loss of femeu fighting after he left the trad stadium scene, because large-bodied power clinch fighters (who he had some trouble with) had become the gambler's favorite. With the even greater increase in size differential now, and the influence of more smashing and clashing fighting styles of Entertainment Muay Thai, it stands to reason that power will become even more effective over femeu skill than ever before. In the Golden Age there were fairly substantial size differences, but the technical skill level of fighters was such - and the trad artful scoring bias in favor of - that small fighters like Karuhat and many others could handle 2 or more weight class (in the ring) differences. This high level of the art just really is missing in this era, and scoring biases are shifting toward the power aesthetic. Trad Muay Thai may become much more combo-heavy smashy with the big man coming out on top. 
    • Some notes on the predividual (from Simondon), from a side conversation I've been having, specifically about how Philosophies of Immanence, because they tend to flatten causation, have lost the sense of debt or respect to that which has made you. One of the interesting questions in the ethical dimension, once we move away from representationalist thinking, is our relationship to causation.   In Spinoza there is a certain implicit reverence for that to which you are immanent to. That which gave "birth" to you and your individuation. The "crystal" would be reverent to the superstaturated solution and the germ (and I guess, the beaker). This is an ancient thought.   Once we introduce concepts of novelness, and its valorization, along with notions of various breaks and revolutions, this sense of reverence is diminished, if not outright eliminated. "I" (or whatever superject of what I am doing) am novel, I break from from that which I come from. Every "new" thing is a revolution, of a kind. No longer is a new thing an expression of its preindividual, in the ethical/moral sense.   Sometimes there are turns, like in DnG, where there is a sort of vitalism of a sacred. I'm not an expression of a particular preindividual, but rather an expression of Becoming..a becoming that is forever being held back by what has already become. And perhaps there is some value in this spiritualization. It's in Hegel for sure. But, what is missing, I believe, is the respect for one's actual preindividual, the very things that materially and historically made "you" (however qualified)...   I think this is where Spinoza's concept of immanent cause and its ethical traction is really interesting. Yes, he forever seems to be reaching beyond his moment in history into an Eternity, but because we are always coming out of something, expressing something, we have a certain debt to that. Concepts of revolution or valorized novelty really undercut this notion of debt, which is a very old human concept which probably has animated much of human culture.   And, you can see this notion of immanent debt in Ecological thought. It still is there.   The ecosystem is what gave birth to you, you have debt to it. Of course we have this sense with children and parents, echo'd there.   But...as Deleuze (and maybe Simondon?) flatten out causation, the crystal just comes out of metastable soup. It is standing there sui generis. It is forever in folds of becoming and assemblages, to be sure, but I think the sense of hierarchy and debt becomes obscured. We are "progressing" from the "primitive".   This may be a good thing, but I suspect that its not.   I do appreciate how you focus on that you cannot just presume the "individual", and that this points to the preindividual. Yes...but is there not a hierarchy of the preindividual that has been effaced, the loss of an ethos.   I think we get something of this in the notion of the mute and the dumb preindividual, which culminates in the human, thinking, speaking, acting individuation. A certain teleology that is somehow complicit, even in non-teleological pictures.   I think this all can boil down to one question: Do we have debt to what we come from?   ...and, if so, what is the nature of that debt?   I think Philosophies of Immanence kind of struggle with this question, because they have reframed.   ...and some of this is the Cult of the New. 3:01 PM Today at 4:56 AM   Hmmmm yeah. Important to be in the middle ground here I suspect. Enabled by the past, not determined by it. Of course inheritance is rather a big deal in evolutionary thought - the bequest of the lineage, as I often put it. This can be overdone, just as a sense of Progress in evolution can be overdone - sometimes we need to escape our past, sometimes we need to recover it, revere it, re-present it. As always, things must be nuanced, the middle ground must be occupied. 4:56 AM   Yes...but I think there is a sense of debt, or possibly reverence, that is missing. You can have a sense of debt or reverence and NOT be reactive, and bring change. Just as a Native American Indian can have reverence for a deer he kills, a debt. You can kill your past, what you have come from, what you are an expression of...but, in a deep way.   Instead "progress" is seen as breaking from, erasing, denying. Radical departure.   The very concept of "the new" holds this.   this sense of rupture.   And pictures of "Becoming" are often pictures of constant rupture.   new, new, new, new, new, new...   ...with obvious parallels in commodification, iterations of the iphone, etc.   In my view, this means that the debt to the preindividual should be substantive. And the art of creating individuation means the art of creating preindividuals. DnG get some of this with their concept of the BwOs.   They are creating a preindividual.   But the sense of debt is really missing from almost all Immanence Philosophy.   The preindividual becomes something like "soup" or intensities, or molecular bouncings.   Nothing really that you would have debt to. 12:54 PM   Fantasies of rupture and "new" are exactly what bring the shadow in its various avatars with you, unconsciously.     This lack of respect or debt to the preindividual also has vast consequences for some of Simondon's own imaginations. He pictures "trade" or "craft" knowledge as that of a childhood of a kind, and is quite good in this. And...he imagines that it can become synthesized with his abstracted "encyclopedic" knowledge (Hegel, again)...but this would only work, he adds, if the child is added back in...because the child (and childhood apprenticeships) were core to the original craft knowledge. But...you can't just "add children" to the new synthesis, because what made craft knowledge so deep and intense was the very predindividual that created it (the entire social matrix, of Smithing, or hunting, or shepherding)...if you have altered that social matrix, that "preindividual" for knowledge, you have radically altered what can even be known...even though you have supplemented with abstract encyclopedic knowledge. This is something that Muay Thai faces today. The "preindividual" has been lost, and no amount of abstraction, and no about of "teaching children" (without the original preindividual) will result in the same capacities. In short, there is no "progressive" escalation of knowledge. Now, not everything more many things are like a fighting art, Muay Thai...but, the absence of the respect and debt to preindividuality still shows itself across knowledge. There are trends of course trying to harness creativity, many of which amount to kind of trying to workshop preindividuality, horizontal buisness plan and build structures, ways of setting up desks or lounge chairs, its endless. But...you can't really "engineer" knowledge in this way...at least not in the way that you are intending to. The preindividual comes out of the culture in an organic way, when we are attending to the kinds of deeper knowledge efficacies we sometimes reach for.
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