Jump to content

Scoring Middle Kicks vs Punches To the face?


Recommended Posts

I enjoy watching golden age Muay Thai. But I can’t help but notice that 80% of the strikes are middle kicks being exchanged. 

Why do middle kicks that perturb balance score higher than getting punched in the face ? Logically ,more fights have been finished by punches to the face than a middle kick. So why are they scored less ? Shouldn’t “damage” be more important than the art of maintaining the narrative of balance/ dominance to win a fight?

Edited by Basic
Didn’t have title
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Basic said:

I enjoy watching golden age Muay Thai. But I can’t help but notice that 80% of the strikes are middle kicks being exchanged. 

Why do middle kicks that perturb balance score higher than getting punched in the face ? Logically ,more fights have been finished by punches to the face than a middle kick. So why are they scored less ? Shouldn’t “damage” be more important than the art of maintaining the narrative of balance/ dominance to win a fight?

Because Muay Thai scoring is different. Hands are mostly used for adding up damage or finishing the fight with K.O while knees, elbows body kicks and sweeps are main scoring tactics. Depends on the style of the fighter. Punch doesn't score at all unless you clearly outbalance him, same with leg kick, it's a blow for damage, but you don't get points if you don't break their balance. There are styles who use heavy hands and leg kicks, but they don't try to win on points, they want a clear K.O . There are different styles. 

Edited by RB Coop
  • Nak Muay 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/17/2020 at 3:10 PM, Basic said:

Why do middle kicks that perturb balance score higher than getting punched in the face ? Logically ,more fights have been finished by punches to the face than a middle kick. So why are they scored less ?

There are a few things that are involved. The first may be that you have to keep in mind that Muay Thai evolved from rope bound fighting, where by report fights lasted very short periods of time, knock out or nothing, because they were basically barefisted. When hands were padded, this lengthened fights. I suspect that padding a part of the body devalued it. You are hitting someone with bare shin bones, or with padded hands. You can understand why the padded part might be devalued. Yes, if you rock someone, punches definitely count. But if you are just touching them stiffly, then nothing much. Punches need to have impact. Another element of this is that it is my theory that Thais and westerners map the body very differently. In the west we picture the head as the center of the self. Anything that strikes the head, even lightly, feels like it is hitting the very identity of a person. In Thailand you have a much more Old World conception of the body, something you see in traditional cultures, like those of Ancient Greece. In this view the "Gut" is a major center of self. In English we still have the vestigial belief in phrases like "gut check" or "I could feel it in my gut". For Thais, I believe, strikes to the gut, especially by kicks and knees, just FEEL like they are hitting the center of a person, more than they do in the west. Striking their vitality. In the traditional view of the body, the gut, the spleen, was a core of the self. Yes, the face also holds a symbolic sense of identity, but it is not the same as in the west.

And lastly, I suspect that because so much of Muay Thai striking is geared toward kicks (and knees) to the body, and because this centerline is very well defended, there is a kind of "capture the flag" aspect to this. If you are able to penetrate defenses, and nail the mid-section, you are really showing skill and control over the fighting space, something that was quite appreciated in the Golden Age. Control over the fighting space was the art of Muay Thai. I suspect punching people in the face (or for that matter, low kicking them, which also ends fights) was considered low-hanging fruit. These are relatively easy strikes to be had. The Muay Thai of the age was really about pushing the technical limits of attack and defense.

  • Like 3
  • Respect 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pacquiao has been hit in the face a million times. Conversely, he was KOd by a body punch ONCE and completely revamped his abdominal training in order to avoid that ever happening again. Body strikes suck.

I totally get the Thai focus on balance. Once I became aware of it, this awareness made it very hard for me to watch a lot of western fighting, across all disciplines. Fighters are terribly off-balance during, before and after strikes. Imagine a gymnast landing on her ass or a diver belly-flopping into the water. That's what it looks like. Our eyes aren't looking for it, so a lot of western fans don't see it. But once you see it, you can never "un-see" it. It's pretty bad.

  • Like 4
  • Nak Muay 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Most Recent Topics

  • Latest Comments

    • Lev brought to my attention Lankrung Kiatkriangkrai, who happens to be on the Holy Grail card, Christmas Eve of 1982, when Dieselnoi beat Samart. He's fighting Boonam Sor.Jarunee for the vacant 112 lb Rajadamnern title, and displays just a beautiful increasingly tempo'd style showing how boxing and the weapons of Muay Thai went together in early Golden Age. You can watch the fight below. He was a 1984 Olympic Boxer under the name Teeraporn Saengano. The good people of Muay Thai wikipedia, including Lev, have filled out his wikipedia page to give more anchorage of his fighting in history, a hugely important step in preserving the legacy of Muay Thai in Thailand. Without records we just have stories.  You can find his wikipedia page here. This is some of his record context for the fight:   Klaew Tanakul the promoter was a very big supporter of amateur Thai boxing, often financially lifting fighters up out of his own pocket, so its of no surprised that one of the best amateur boxers who was also a top Muay Thai fighter was featured on his promoted card. Video timestamped to about 25 minutes in if anything goes wrong. The fight starts very slow, but watch for his gradual uptempoing, his use of the jab, as he closes the distance round by round.  
    • Hi. Sorry about your situation. Rest assured that everyone (me too) unearths a revelation about a bad habit or poor technique once in a while. Main thing is you've found out and want to fix it. IMO and experience (25 years including teaching), it's an issue because it's every single kick as you said and this detracts from good technique and power and balance etc and longer-term development. It also stifles ability such as kicking and then following immediately with a Thai leg block or follow up weapon e.g. another kick (but I gather you are aware of this though from your post). My advice would be to spend a lot of time on the bag and drill the kick lots in a conscious state of mind so you're aware of how your standing foot behaves on each kick and force the ball of the foot to stay in contact with the floor. Set targets of getting 5, then 10 in a row without jumping. The mind and body will adapt over time. With pad work you'll loose the discipline and repetitions need to correct this - plus a lot of pad holder partners just won't see or bother to correct you. So try and cut that down for a while. Good luck.    
    • Hi. You can't go wrong with Twins or any good, reputable Thai brand like Fairtex. They will last you years if you air and dry that out after every session. I bought a Fairtex pair in 2017 in Thailand and they are still in great shape (I train 2/3 times a week). Before that I had a pair of Windy Sport I bought from the shop near Raja Stadium in BKK, that again lasted me years. For your size and stature, 16oz are perfect, and good all round - so you can spar/play and hit pads and bag comfortably. Don't cut corners with price or quality. If you've got good gear the experience will be more enjoyable. For the record I've been involved in Muay Thai since 2000, lived in Thailand and taught in London. Enjoy the MT journey 🙂
  • The Latest From Open Topics Forum

    • I can only comment on Perth. There's a very active Muay Thai scene here - regular shows. Plenty of gyms across the city with Thai trainers. All gyms offer trial classes so you can try a few out before committing . Direct flights to Bangkok and Phuket as well. Would you be coming over on a working holiday visa? Loads of work around Western Australia at the moment. 
    • Hi, I'm considering moving to Australia from the UK and I'm curious what is the scene like? Is it easy to fight frequently (proam/pro level), especially as a female? How does it compare to the UK? Any gym recommendations? I'll be grateful for any insights.
    • You won't find thai style camps in Europe, because very few people can actually fight full time, especially in muay thai. As a pro you just train at a regular gym, mornings and evenings, sometimes daytime if you don't have a job or one that allows it. Best you can hope for is a gym with pro fighters in it and maybe some structured invite-only fighters classes. Even that is a big ask, most of Europe is gonna be k1 rather than muay thai. A lot of gyms claim to offer muay thai, but in reality only teach kickboxing. I think Sweden has some muay thai gyms and shows, but it seems to be an exception. I'm interested in finding a high-level muay thai gym in Europe myself, I want to go back, but it seems to me that for as long as I want to fight I'm stuck in the UK, unless I switch to k1 or MMA which I don't want to do.
    • Hi all, Does anyone know of any suppliers for blanks (Plain items to design and print a logo on) that are a good quality? Or put me in the right direction? thanks all  
    • The first fight between Poot Lorlek and Posai Sittiboonlert was recently uploaded to youtube. Posai is one of the earliest great Muay Khao fighters and influential to Dieselnoi, but there's very little footage of him. Poot is one of the GOATs and one of Posai's best wins, it's really cool to see how Posai's style looked against another elite fighter.
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      1.4k
    • Total Posts
      11.5k
×
×
  • Create New...