Jump to content

Few simple questions: What is Derning, Why Is Clinch Broken Quickly Sometimes?


Recommended Posts

These are questions I have when I watch the live streaming of Sylvie’s fights and listen to Kevin’s commentary 

 

 

what is Derning? ( durning?)

if clinching is part of MT, what is the rationale for it to be broken up so quickly? 

Also why would someone be a backwards fighter .... I feel like it makes the person look like the weaker fighter whose struggling and always running away from the forward walking fighter 

 

I had a few other questions but I forget now. I’ll add to it as I remember.

( Started MT about 10 months ago. So I’m just curious about many things. Obviously there’s a lot to learn. More than I ever will be able to 🙂🥊)

 

  • Like 2
  • Cool 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/5/2020 at 9:57 AM, MadelineGrace said:

These are questions I have when I watch the live streaming of Sylvie’s fights and listen to Kevin’s commentary 

 

 

what is Derning? ( durning?)

if clinching is part of MT, what is the rationale for it to be broken up so quickly? 

Also why would someone be a backwards fighter .... I feel like it makes the person look like the weaker fighter whose struggling and always running away from the forward walking fighter 

 

I had a few other questions but I forget now. I’ll add to it as I remember.

( Started MT about 10 months ago. So I’m just curious about many things. Obviously there’s a lot to learn. More than I ever will be able to 🙂🥊)

 

Hi,

"dern" is the Thai word for walking, so it means the fighter who is going forward. Sometimes the Thai commentator will be saying "Sylvie dern" and it means I'm the one coming forward, pressing the action.

Clinching is allowed to go for longer out in the provinces, medium in the stadia of Bangkok, and broken stupid quickly in new 3-round formats like Max, Thai Fight, Superchamp, Hardcore, MX, etc. They claim it's to make the fights more exciting, but it makes them more boring. It only gives people time to hold, rather than work. Golden Era fights like Samson Isaan vs. Pepsi (the third one especially) or Langsuan vs Lamnamoon, the clinch goes forever and the ref just kind of keeps them off the ropes. Breaking the clinch too fast would be like separating fighters after two strikes... totally interrupts the flow of the fight. But they claim it's to make it more exciting, but really it just makes it more like a Windmill show.

The way you see going forward as being positive, Thais see going backwards as being in control of the fight, rather than looking like you're scared. You can't ONLY go back. Dieselnoi often complains that all my opponents did was "nee" which is the Thai word for escaping. Going backwards for the sake of going backwards is as bad as going forward simply for the sake of going forward, it has to have meaning to how the fight is being directed by your movements. But a fighter who has the lead and then goes backwards to force the opponent to chase, or catch up, shows control of the fight. A fighter who is simply coming forward all the time looks desperate to a Thai eye, especially if they already have the lead, they look like they don't know that they're in the lead. 

  • Like 4
  • Nak Muay 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/5/2020 at 9:57 AM, MadelineGrace said:

Also why would someone be a backwards fighter .... I feel like it makes the person look like the weaker fighter whose struggling and always running away from the forward walking fighter

We think that forward aggression is just the natural way to show dominance, but it's more complicated than that. Let's say we are kids, I smack you in the mouth in a fight, and then move away from you and make you miss when you lunge at me. Then I laugh, move slightly out of the way, call you a name, you lunge at me again. And then again, this time I hit you making you off balance, and laugh again. Who is dominating the scene? This is just a simple school yard fight, but you can clearly see who is "winning" the fight by dominance. The kids are all around us, laughing. This is an extreme example of how Thais see the backwards fighter looking in control in a fight. They have to keep scoring, they have to seem like they are controlling everything, but they do it by making the other fighter look desperate or out of control. It's actually much closer to "real" fighting than otherwise supposed real fighting is.

  • Like 3
  • Nak Muay 1
  • Heart 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And lol now I’m fb famous Bc you posted my question and photo on fb 🤣🤣🤣 ( Lol. I’m quiet and reserved til I know someone and non attention seeking) thank God my gloves are in front of my face in my pic! Or id be embarrassed ! ( note- clarifying Bc one can’t read tone in type- it’s totally fine! I don’t mind at all ! 👍I’m thankful for my gloves though 😊

  • Like 1
  • Cool 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Most Recent Topics

  • Latest Comments

    • I remember - I've probably written it somewhere else - driving to Phetjeejaa's family gym, which was up a few lanes and a dirt road, when she was the best female Muay Thai fighter in the world, at only 13 years of age, something we did everyday so Sylvie could train with her. And to get there we motorbiked up Khao Talo road, a pretty active road, and would pass by a Taekwondo studio with a large plate glass window showing the training mat inside, where numerous kids around Phetjeejaa's age all glowed in their starched white Gis, Ha-ai-ing in their moves. And I thought to myself...we are driving to where the best female fighter in the world trains and all these kids, the parents of these kids, don't even know she's there...up the road. And even if they did, they wouldn't train with her at her gym, because Muay Thai is low class, its dirty, nothing like the promise of a clean white Gi.   The story of Muay Thai cannot be told without this strong division of class.
    • As Thailand's Muay Thai Turns Itself Toward the Westerner more and more, people are going to yearn for "authentic" Muay Thai This is one of the great ironic consequences of Thailand attempting to change its Muay Thai into a Western-oriented sport, not only changing the rules of its fights for them, and their presentation, but also changing the training, the very "form" of Muay Thai itself...this is going to increase the demand and desire for "authentic" Muay Thai. Yes, increasing numbers of people will be drawn to the made-for-me Muay Thai, because that's a wide-lane highway...but of those numbers a small subset is going to more intensely feel: Nope, that stuff is not for me. In this counterintuitive way, tourism and soft power which is radically altering Muay Thai, it also is creating a foreign desire for the very thing that is being altered and lost. The traveler, in the sense of the person who wants to get away from themselves, their culture, the things they already know, to find what is different than them, is going to be drawn to what hasn't been shaped for them. This is complicated though, because this is also linked to a romanticization, and exoticization sometimes which can be problematic, and because this then pushes the tourism (first as "adventure tourism") halo out further and further, eventually commodifying, altering more of what "isn't shaped for them". This is the great contradiction. There has to be interest and value in preserving what has been, but then if that interest is grown in the foreigner, this will lead to more alteration...especially if there is a power imbalance. So we walk a fine line in valuing that which is not-like-us. What is hopeful and interesting is that Thailand, and Siam before it, has spent centuries absorbing the shaping powers of foreign trade, even intense colonization, and its culture has developed great resistance to these constant interactions. It, and therefore Muay Thai itself, arguably has woven into itself the capacity to hold its character when when pressed. This is really what probably makes Thailand's Muay Thai so special, so unique in the world...the way it has survived as not only some kind of martial antecedent from centuries ago (under the influence of many international fighting influences), but also how it negotiated the full 100 years of "modernity" in the 20th century, including decades and decades in dialogue with Western Boxing (first from the British, then from America). The only really worrisome aspect of this latest colonization, if we can call it that, is that the imposing forces brought to Muay Thai through globalization are not those of a complex fighting art, developed through its own its own lineage in foreign lands. It's that mostly what is shaping Muay Thai now is a very pale version of itself, a Muay Thai that was imitated by the Japanese in the 1970s, in a new made up sport "Kickboxing", which bent back through Europe in the 1980s, and now is finding its way back to Thailand, fueled by Western and international interest. Thailand's Muay Thai is facing being shaped by a shadow of itself, an echo, a devolvment of skills and meaningfulness. On trusts though that it can absorb this and move on.   some of the history of Japanese Kickboxing:  
    • Wow, just watched an old Thai Fight replay of top tier female matchup that featured Kero's opponent in her last fight, someone she pretty much overwhelmed right away (with probably a 4 kg advantage). It was amazing to see the difference in performance on Thai Fight. Very skilled, very game, sharp. I came away realizing just how HARD it is to fight up. It changes everything. Sylvie takes 4 kg disadvantages all the time, and honestly overcomes them more often than not. What she does is so unappreciated, not only by others, but by Sylvie herself. Giving up significant weight and winning doesn't just take toughness, it takes an incredible amount of skill to keep that fighter away from what they want to do, to nullify all that size, strength and the angles. It's a complete art. You see this in female fighting all the time, big weight advantages REALLY matter. 
  • The Latest From Open Topics Forum

    • Hi all, Does anyone know of any suppliers for blanks (Plain items to design and print a logo on) that are a good quality? Or put me in the right direction? thanks all  
    • The first fight between Poot Lorlek and Posai Sittiboonlert was recently uploaded to youtube. Posai is one of the earliest great Muay Khao fighters and influential to Dieselnoi, but there's very little footage of him. Poot is one of the GOATs and one of Posai's best wins, it's really cool to see how Posai's style looked against another elite fighter.
    • Yeah, this is certainly possible. Thanks! I just like the idea of a training camp pre-fight because of focus and getting more "locked in".. Do you know of any high level gyms in europe you would recommend? 
    • You could just pick a high-level gym in a European city, just live and train there for however long you want (a month?). Lots of gyms have morning and evening classes.
    • Hi, i have a general question concerning Muay-Thai training camps, are there any serious ones in Europe at all? I know there are some for kickboxing in the Netherlands, but that's not interesting to me or what i aim for. I have found some regarding Muay-Thai in google searches, but what iv'e found seem to be only "retreats" with Muay-Thai on a level compareable to fitness-boxing, yoga or mindfullness.. So what i look for, but can't seem to find anywhere, are camps similar to those in Thailand. Grueling, high-intensity workouts with trainers who have actually fought and don't just do this as a hobby/fitness regime. A place where you can actually grow, improve technique and build strength and gas-tank with high intensity, not a vacation... No hate whatsoever to those who do fitness-boxing and attend retreats like these, i just find it VERY ODD that there ain't any training camps like those in Thailand out there, or perhaps i haven't looked good enough?..  Appericiate all responses, thank you! 
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      1.4k
    • Total Posts
      11.4k
×
×
  • Create New...