LengLeng
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Posts posted by LengLeng
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As explained in earlier posts I study lethwei and through this experience I also get a deeper understanding of muay thai.
Anyhow, I recently learned an interesting clinch technique where you - while holding each other controlling body etc - pull out your leg like a teep and bend your leg and hit your opponent's back thigh/back of knee with heel of foot.
It's very effective and hurts a lot. Would anybody know if this is something done in muay thai?
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On 12/30/2020 at 1:53 PM, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:
I've definitely noted a very stark difference in appreciation for the dangers of head impacts between western perspective and Thai perspective (where I have experience watching, but likely similar to what you're seeing at your gym). There is an understanding of concussion, but it's kind of considered to be momentary, like something you "walk off." One of the fighters in my gym got hit hard in sparring and was definitely concussed (after he'd been KOd in a fight not too long before) and they just had him stretch his jaw out. So, your trainer might not have a full comprehensive understanding of what cognitive impacts there might be from such a kick to the face. Since your friend didn't lose consciousness, the trainer might think it's not even concussive.
Kevin and I have largely relied on me to determine what the damage may or may not be from any head impacts. So, likewise your friend needs to pay attention to his own symptoms. As for the "walk it off" attitude of the trainer and the reckless sparring, I think this is simply a case of limited understanding and perspective. I don't think they're being dicks about it, not on purpose.
We've had a discussion on this topic before I believe and since head injuries are the only thing worrying me I pay extra attention. I have the same understanding as you.... It's simply a lack of knowledge. But at the same time there are countless times I'm surprised by how much people in martial arts gyms in this region know about the body and injuries so it's hard for me to know when to listen and when not to.
Thanks for the input.
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On 12/26/2020 at 3:43 PM, StefanZ said:
If it hurt that much and he had a dent, he should of course go look see the doctor for a check up and a X-ray. He could get hurt for real, even if it wasnt the purpose of this kick. S... happens, even if you arent planning on it.
Unless such medical check up costs a smaller fortune, and he doesnt have the money. But this is perhaps another story; to engage in a quite dangerous sport without having possibility to adequate medical back up.
He's got the money but listens to his teacher who gave him some traditional medicine and told him he was fine. But I agree and I told him a doc visit wouldn't hurt.
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On 10/12/2020 at 10:33 PM, Tom Riddle said:
google.
What an absolute bs reply!! You obviously have no clue about the extra barriers coming with being a foreign woman training in Thailand. Recommendations from other women is key and it's great that she asks, especially since gyms change from year to year. There are also several of cases of sexual violence happening at gyms in Thailand. This is not exactly something that will come up on google. Luckily there's a community, like this one, where women can come together and advise each other.
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On 12/22/2020 at 9:45 PM, StefanZ said:
Re stress and destressing devices.
To have a friendly cat does often miracles for destressing and giving harmony. It probably works with a loving dog too, but my personal knowledge is cats.
So, a cat with whom you are its Ma or Dad, and whom takes you as a such, does much to soothe stresses.
Its very pleasant to have it laying on you and spinning.... You get to sleep deeply and get refreshed.
Also, its proven cats spinning helps to heal bone injuries. I imagine for example, stress fractures, which are fairly common with hard training top athletes.
And if said atlethes are also beating mercilessly upon each other, there are surely even more damages...
Its very common such a friendly cat , when it notices hishers Ma or Da is sick, ill or sad, comes, lays down with you, and does its best to comfort you...
A good tip is to adopt a homeless cat (or dog). Even if the fostering may take some time and patience if the cat is shy.
They know they were saved, and know to give gratitude. Such a cat/ dog may remain shy to visitors, but will be your eternal supporter and protector In this live and from the afterlife too.... I dare to say. This last is my personal belief, but the earlier parts its many whom had witnessed such.
I recently adopted a Myanmar stray kitten
. What I find so amazing is that I now throughout the day take short pauses to play or cuddle and I find it so great for my general well-being. I had no idea about the benefits of their purring. I will look into it. My kitten lost her mum very early so since I got her she has been suckling on my neck. It's so cute.
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I have a friend, Burmese, who is training for his first Lethwei fight. He's done kyokushin karate matches before and a street boxing match against a very easy opponent. His fight will be what they call semi-professional lethwei, 5 rounds 3 minutes, all weapons allowed including headbutts but instead of no gloves they'll wear MMA gloves. KO or draw.
About a week before his fight he did sparring and my teacher, who I know to be very very controlled and can go hard without causing damage, kicked him in the head. My teacher is 63 kg and around 175cm tall and my friend 185cm and 78kg and will fight open weight (possibly against a muscular tall 100kg dude).
My friend told me the kick hurt extremely much and he almost lost consciousness. I wasn't there to see it but my teacher, who of course apologized, said he didn't use any force. And the rest of the gym pretty much laughed and said it wasn't a big deal.
The thing is I saw a photo of my friend's face and he had like a dent in his cheekbone from the kick. He also said he had a lot of pain and felt dizzy for two days. But his teachers and gym mates tell him to stop making a deal about it, if he wants to fight he needs to be able to take some pain.
I dont really know how tough this guy is. But he's done heavy hard sparring before. And I know my teacher's body is incredibly hard (they don't kick banana trees in Myanmar, they kick, elbow and headbutt coconuts open) but he is a controlled person so there's the possibility of my friend being sensitive.
But to me this situation sounds absolutely reckless, especially so short before what will be a very tough fight. And I suspect due to a lack of knowledge about head injuries they ignore his worry.
I know this is not directly related to muay thai but I'm asking from the perspective of general safety and fighting. I believe everyone should respect martial art traditions and listen to your teacher. But at the same time your own safety has to be your responsibility and priority.
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On 11/30/2020 at 5:22 PM, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:
My trainer insists that the "post fight medicine" needs to be taken to avoid abscesses/ Staph. If you don't fight, you have to take it every 2 months of training. Like a reset.
You mean the laxative thingy? I didn't know it had anything to do with staph. I was told is to get the stress hormones out or something (never tried it).
I have a shingles (herpes zoster) related question as I remember you've written you had it a couple of times. I had it 2 years ago and when I said the Thai name to my trainers they all knew exactly what it was and took it pretty seriously. Whereas people in general don't really know it too well. Any reason it's common in Muay Thai gyms other than the training is taxing on the immune system?
I got it real real bad as I went to doc too late. An old Swedish word for it is hellfire which is exactly how it felt. I also had the post-shingles nerve pain for months which was treated with high-dose vit B (I think B6, 12 and maybe B3?). A former colleague who wasn't happy I needed to take some days off work insisted it's probably because of my "dirty boxing gym". Whereas doc told me it's stress that activates the checkenpox virus.
Any idéa?
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On 10/21/2020 at 7:14 PM, Tom Riddle said:
I hope there are no times like we have and we are facing. Training is my life and I cant even explain how much psychologically it has effected me by not being able to go to the gym. Like I started reaching out brands who are working in the similar category like elite sports to help me and other boxers to get into the game and help us to survive through this pandemic. I'm glad they have started to now gradually.
I'm experiencing the second lock down of the year and haven't seen a gym since July. I'm training w a friend/trainer outside. Doing what we can, borrowing pads from friends hook then on to trees to emulate a boxing bags. I'm dealing with an injury so I'm studying physiotherapy and took up yoga again. I'm reading books that will help me train better(currently the Oxygen Avantage). I'm doing 75Hard to increase my mental strength (just Google 75hard and Andy Frisella if you interested). I adopted a stray kitten. I'm reaching out to strangers on social media asking for advice or sparring opportunities.
Grow through this instead of falling into the trap of paralyzing self-pity.
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Hi! Since I gathered a lot of expeirence getting injured and sick while training, I thought I would start a new topic, namely: gym/trainer advice received on how to care for injuries or ailments.
I will start with a couple of things I have been told and their origin.
- Swollen, painful knuckles: massage with hot water and salt (western boxing coach, Sweden)
- Ligament or muscle issues: Ice bath with salt. Eat potatoes and ocra/lady fingers. (lethwei trainer, Myanmar)
- Any kind of muscle pain: warm water massage (basically all muay thai trainers, Thailand)
- Cough: gurgle with warm salt water (muay thai trainer, Thailand)
- Shin dents: gentle warm water massage downward motion (muay thai trainers, Thailand)
- Prevent skin rashes of any kind: rinse water directly after training then apply baby powder (muay thai trainer, Thailand)
- Pink eye: stay away, absolutely no clinching, hot water compress (muay thai trainers, Thailand)
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During our current lockdown I discovered I live very close to a trainer from my gym and we have been training outside waiting for gyms to open. He had the exact same thing to say about my chicken arm as described above. He had an interesting drill though to fix it. Or you guys might know it, I've never seen it before We stood opposite each other and with straight jabs and punches, punched each others gloves. And we stood shorter apart than arms length distance so I would have to "strike through" his glove. We did a couple of minutes if 12, 12, 112, 1hook2 etc.
It was really uncomfortable but pretty effective ensuring arm hit straight into the target since the target was literally not bigger than a glove and with bent arm I would have hit the side of the glove.
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10 hours ago, Krystel said:
Are there any gyms in particular in Thailand you’d recommend for women ?
sorry I have only trained in Bangkok as I used to live and work in the city.
Bangkok is a wonderful city but not great if you dont have any fight experience as there are not many fight opportunities other than Asiatique. The north is great for women apparently with plenty fight options. Some people like Phuket.
The women section on this forum has some threads on good gyms for women. and discussions on sexual assault and the legal system which you should be mindful of.
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2 hours ago, Krystel said:
Thank you!! Really appreciate it.
I’m hoping I’ll still be able to book long term rooms if I trial them first.
I’ll definitely be waiting until next year. Way too risky at this point and will need everything to settle a bit.
Do you happen to know much about how the training is at Sitjaopho Gym and the possibility to find fights?? I believe it’s based at Hua Hin District.
I haven't been myself but I heard Sitjaopo is really great. And their students do get to fight, men and women. Hua Hin has a couple of places where they organize fights., so it would not be that difficult once covid is gone.
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On 9/26/2020 at 8:27 PM, Krystel said:
Hi all!
im hoping to book a 1-2 month trip and only dedicate this time for full time training, with hopes to also have an opportunity to fight.
Im looking into some gyms in Bangkok and Chiang Mai however I’ve read a lot of advise to check the gyms out first before deciding. Just mindful that this may run the risk of the gym and dorms being full if I do this.
Ive been interested in Manop, Attachai or Sangtiennoi Gym so far. Definitely looking for more technical and one on one training.
Can you please share your experiences or knowledge on whether it’s generally ok for me to trial it first before making one month booking or am I running a bigger risk of not having space available
Thankyou!!
I would definitely try a few sessions at a gym first before you decide. And it is not seen as weird in any way. Gyms change a lot and especially now during the pandemic, some gyms are having fewer trainers and other students. If you are a woman and you want to fight, the north is probably better. In Bangkok it is very difficult to get a fight as a woman with limited fight experience. And of course now it might be difficult to fight at all.
It seems like Thailand is slowly opening up for tourists on this so-called special tourist visa (STV), but this also includes hotel quarantine and there is still some confusion on which countries will be eligible.
One thing to be mindful of is a potential second wave. I am in Myanmar and we had 300 cases up to mid-August when it started spreading again, most likely coming from India. This virus strain made its way to Yangon and despite a very strict lockdown, it keeps spreading with about 1000 new cases per day (currently at almost 18,000 positive cases). They do think the virus might reach the Thai border soon (not that far from Chang Mai).
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On 9/19/2020 at 11:11 PM, AndyMaBobs said:
It's something I have to train out of people often. I see a lot of people doing it, and there is an idea amongst some coaches that the flared elbows are some how to make kicks easier to catch.
For me though, if it does/doesn't make it easier to catch a kick, I would still rather my fighter hit them while they're on one leg as opposed to catch. And you don't NEED those flared elbows to be able to catch a kick, but you do need a tighter stance in order to have quicker more powerful punches.
So if I have someone that flares their elbows a lot, I will try getting their arms in tighter (but not so tight that they'll be kicked in the arms all day). Ideally so they can not only go on offence, but use a cross guard and mummy guard easier too!
I really enjoy this discussion. Funny how these ideas circulate. In lethwei catching kicks would make sense since you can only win by KO. But muay thai, yes it's a ridiculous idea punches like these would make catching kicks easier. I almost laughed when my teacher told me this but seems like it's a thing people actually believe.
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21 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
Sagat in the Muay Thai Library was the first one to really push hard at getting rid of this in Sylvie. It was a major point of his. Everything from within the frame. Sylvie would stand with her side against a wall to get the feeling right. Sagat was a pro boxer as well, and came from a boxing gym. Gyms with connections to boxing are much better at getting this right. Lots and lots of Muay Thai gyms get into bad habits with their winging punching, holding pads wide. Not only does it make punches less accurate, less consistent, I think the chicken wing also helps the opponent see the punch a hair sooner. When it come straight out of the body its very hard to see, track or gauge the speed of. I think this is a huge problem in Thailand's Muay Thai, to be honest.
Yes you definitely see a bent punch faster than a straight one. I had Vero Nika (she fought against Sawsing last year) try to teach me straight punches. She has the most beautiful straight powerful punches.
I'm gonna try the wall thing, great tip.
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10 hours ago, Jeffo said:
Like I said I think there's a balance. I don't always think that the body finds the best technique when it's tired (not that it can't), but I think it can also look for the easiest technique which as I'm sure we can agree easy doesn't always mean better. Also sometimes when I'm tired I overthink things too, sometimes I even develop a progressively worse attitude which results in worse and worse quality in the things I'm practicing. I think discussions such as this will someday lead to real fact and hopefully a more optimal and efficient way of training/improving, not just in muay thai, but in all things. Thanks again for your input.
I think this is more a rule of thumb thing than a fact. Learning new things while fatigued might help. When you tired you also expose your weaknesses. Fifth round on pads will tell you more about yourself than first round.
I think you can create systems for better learning, but I don't think there are any bulletproof ways that will always work.
I don't believe physical movements can be taught by over-intellectualizing them which I see a lot of in this forum.
You want fluidity? Stop thinking go dancing.
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2 hours ago, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:
I've never seen that bent elbow thing purposefully trained. I think there's a tendency toward it because of how pads are held, lots of fighters probably imitate each other, and then it's never corrected. When I see corrections in Muay Thai, it's always toward straighter punches. I've never, ever seen that weird chicken wing punch taught, instructed, or praised. It's just tolerated... a lot.
Yesh it sounds about right. Such a weird thing that from the outside it's a muay thai thing when it's well not really. My teacher said something about it's good for catching kicks fast
. Anyhow very difficult for me to unlearn.
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On 9/16/2020 at 8:33 AM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
One of the things we think about is the idea that when you train something when you are fatigued, you wear a deeper groove than if you trained it over and over again when relaxed and fresh. This is only an intuition, and could be totally wrong (Science!), but the sense is that when you are fatigued it's like heating up a metal that is to be re-worked. All the constituent parts are floating more freely, subject to change. The things you do in fatigue seem to get locked in more, more associated with stuff you'll do when stressed in a fight or in life. Some of these thinking comes from an analogy of annealing, and simulated annealing, for me.
But, there is definitely a sense of deeper grooves being hard to change. When you begin creating habits you have to respect that you ALREADY have habits, even if they are just instinctual responses.
I had a crossfit coach once who told me to work on gymnastics technique when I am tired. Easier to get it right because the body is exhausted and will naturally use the best technique for the movement to waste as little energy as possible. And you are too tired to overthink stuff.
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Since the start of this year I have been practicing Myanmar traditional boxing after two years of training muay thai in Thailand. These are similar, but also very different sports.
For example, this sport focuses much more on hands and most trainers would correct my punches, making them more straight, hence enhance knuckle power (you fight bare-knuckled).
I've recently have had the pleasure to train with an older very knowledgeable teacher who has operated his gym since 1982. He is in general very interested in most martial arts and has a lot of respect for muay thai as well. And the first thing he said when he saw my punches was that they were typical muay thai punches with the elbows slightly bent.
The thing is,, yes! I have seen it plenty of times, muay thai fighters on pads with slightly bent arms. But I've never had a muay thai teacher telling me to have my arms bent. They have always focused on getting my arms straight and punches more powerful.
So I am just wondering, where this is coming from?
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3 hours ago, Jeffo said:
on a side note, I also had another little moment watching a video in the muay thai library. One of the trainers says there's only three punches, straights, hooks, and uppercuts. While this isn't a big deal for most people, I'm still new and needed to hear this, it reminds me that hey just cause punches can come from all sorts of angles and at times look different, they really aren't.
This is really interesting. What about the overhand punch, is it basically a hook?
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For me it was when someone told me the best advice he ever got was to simply stay on your feet when your partner tries to trip or sweep you in the clinch. I realized there's this moment of giving up like "damn he got me" before tripping/falling and you can actually choose not to give up and stay upright. It was a complete game-changer for me. Suddenly the boys had to work hard when trying to sweep me because I wasn't "helping" them.
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It's great to have such s resolve. For now better wait and see what happens with the country and covid. It might take a bit until the country opens up.
But a good advice would be to come as a tourist and visit a few gyms and find your place within a geographical area that suits you (depends on your preferences). Some gyms can help you with a longer-term visa. There's also the opportunity to work as an English teacher for example.
However. South-East Asia is mainly closed for now. And there are a lot of mixed messages on when countries will open up for whom and under what conditions.
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On 6/11/2020 at 7:15 PM, Isaac said:
I’ve had my clock cleaned by MT and Lethwei boxers
do being on the receiving end, I’d personally characterize MT as more of a kick-heavy fight with pacing to last through 5 rounds (I am not discounting the fantastic clinch and elbow and knee hunters in MT), whereas the Lethwei folks I experienced are more hand-heavy with kicks looking to end the fight ASAP.
Exactly my experience as well. And the more I learn, the more interesting it gets. I've given up on getting back to Thailand to fight and considering lethwei fight in Myanmar (scares the shit out of me). But realized I know way too less abt this art and it's technique. Started training at Phoe Taw's gym and getting excellent technique advice. Especially how the "no gloves" and only win by KO affects training style. Way more forward as well messes up my stance. How was your fight experience?
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On 6/22/2020 at 7:46 PM, Isaac said:
Sylvie’s Vlogs and Preserve the Legacy are a way to implicitly support Muay Thai families’ and their place in the sport. I suggest that we can have a big tent under which we can espouse respect for the origin. Being vocal—doesn’t have to be loud, just vocal. Thoughts?
I so agree with this. The preserve the legacy and basically everything Sylvie and Kevin do is a beautiful example of sharing a culture without diluting it or disrespecting it.
The trademarking of lethwei is so sad... especially knowing Myanmar culture a bit and extremely friendly and humble Myanmar people are be they Kachin, Bama, Shan, Chin or any other ethnicity.
Heel kick to back of thigh? Clinching question.
in Muay Thai Technique, Training and Fighting Questions
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Awesome thanks for clarification both to you and Kevin.