[Arranging fights for yourself in Thailand?]

Hey @Victoria Pitt I got a fight outside of a gym. Friend knew a promoter who set it up without knowing me or my skill level (in English). I guess based on him trusting my friend. All was very ok and decent as far as I know. I'm now connected to the promoter who wanted to set up another fight. However he's going through some tough financial times atm unfortunately and will most likely travel abroad for work very soon. 

Heard great stuff about Sitjemam and Santai up in the north when it comes to fighting opportunities for women. 

So sorry about this. They been promising you fights that never materialize while you keep paying training fees?

[Best Recovery Advice For Full Time Training in Thailand]

8 hours ago, Tyler Byers said:

The VA uses this to treat melatonin regulation and also depression so there probably has been some clinical research done on this. They make special lamps for indoor use too in case you don't have access to regular sunlight. 

Yes for sure, sunlight and correction of circadian rhythms and treatment of depression and what have you not is well researched. Jack Kruse takes it one step further though . Interesting stuff. 

[Best Recovery Advice For Full Time Training in Thailand]

9 hours ago, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:

I use meditation as part of my daily practice, but for me recovery is daily practice also, so I'll lump them together. Clearing out my mind absolutely makes huge differences in how my body feels. Or at least how I respond to how my body feels. 

 

Oh yes of course meditation. Most simplest thing to do, hardest to stick to. 

 

9 hours ago, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Dieselnoi advised me to soak my feet in warm salt water before sleep, so when I remember to do that I will. I don't feel huge differences, but I do think my sleep is a little bit more sound when I do that. I use blue light blocking glasses after sunset, to get my melatonin production regulated, also to help with sleep. Napping is amazing, if that's a possibility. Some days there's no time. Some days I just can't get to sleep in the middle of the day.

I heard this woman on a podcast and have just bought her book, you can check that out here: https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a26146682/good-to-go-science-behind-recovery/

I have used epsom salt soaks a lot in the past due to sleep issues and trying to learn some wim hoff techniques. Where do you get epsom salt in Thailand? Or you just use regular salt? I wear glasses in the evening and bluelight glasses do not work with that but I use filters on my phone, but I am pretty sure I get way too much bluelight. For melatonin regulation Dr Jack Kruse (bit of an asshole on social media but also a genius) has interesting ideas on letting sunlight hit the retina in morning https://jackkruse.com/time-10-can-you-supplement-sunlight/

Thanks so much for the link, very interesting and I might go for her book as well. 

[Best Recovery Advice For Full Time Training in Thailand]

9 hours ago, Tyler Byers said:

Not to mention if you are getting massage done regularly, you won't get a build up of toxins in the first place. 

THIS definitely makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

[Best Recovery Advice For Full Time Training in Thailand]

I'm curious to hear about what people do to recover. I believe in regular training and definitely into the "there is no overtraining only under recovery"-approach. However due to not getting proper recovery, mainly not enough sleep, I've struggled with all kinds of illness, fatigue and muscle strains. But to go to the gym 6 days a week even if I'm tired and fatigued has its wins and helps me to learn. And to battle my own mind. 

Sleep seems to be number one parallel to nutrition. Enough protein seems to be key for me. And warm showers after sessions. I can't say a particular supplement other than BCAA has done any magic trick. 

But I also do a lot of massage and have done regular chiropractic treatments in the past. I'm a yogic and used to do do a lot of yoga. When I stopped (because muay thai took over my life) my body felt it, getting stiffer more prone to injuries etc. and instead I opt for weekly thai massage and sauna. I've received the expert advice that body work (massage and the likes) is great for getting the muscles in order, the way they move under the skin etc. 

But I'm also constantly being told by trainers and fellow students to not get a thai massage more than 2/monthly. Because of toxins being released and so on. But massage has really helped me with my muscle issues. And it "feels" right. 

Curious to hear other people's views. 

[General Cost of Living & Training in Thailand]

On 6/30/2019 at 11:01 PM, Ruan said:

Hi, Sylvie/Admin. I'm Ruan from South Africa. I totally fell in love with Muay Thai since the first time I saw it. Your video's and informative reads has helped me a lot in my journey. My biggest dream is living and training in Thailand, even if it's just for a few months. Can you maybe give me some info on what the cost of living and training in Thailand is? What would be the cheapest? I don't worry about luxury.

Would one maybe be able to do something on the sideline as well if you decide to stay longer to earn some extra money to pay for expenses like the gym?

I agree with what has been said above. Just to add a few things.

Prices in Bangkok can be roughly compared to Cape Town, but more expensive than Pretoria for example. International food and wine being more expensive than SA, especially wine (bottle of 2 oceans is like 230 rand, insane).  

In Bangkok you have to factor in transportation, it is getting a bit cooler at the moment due to the rains but the humidity simply makes you sweat a lot. A single journey with the skytrain or metro is around 15 rand. 15 minute walk would cost around 10 rand if you hop on a bike taxi. Cheapest option is regular taxi, however can get a bit tricky if you do not speak any thai and do not know the city very well. The second cheapest option is Grab motorbike (Asia's Uber). I use it everyday and it works fine, I pay around 45 rand (3.50USD) for a 15-20  minute ride. If you live elsewhere, for example on an island or in the north, renting a motorbike would be a good option and usually pretty affordable. Traffic in Bangkok can be a bit hectic. All in all, best option is to live within walking distance of the gym if possible. 

In Thailand it is very easy to go for the budget option. Cheap food from food stalls is delicious and the best option in case you do not care about msg or sugar in your food. The same with accommodation, plenty decent options available in all price ranges and more luxurious options will also be cheaper than SA. You do not have to be too concerned with safety when choosing a place to live. Obviously, do not be stupid, but Thailand is way safer than SA. For example, the taxis do not even lock the car doors while they drive you and nothing will happen to you while waiting for the robot to turn green other than that you either get super sweaty on the back of a bike or you stress out because traffic soooooo slow during peak hours. 

Thailand feels very cheap, but at the same time you find yourself constantly spending money as you depend on others for daily services and food. Especially in Bangkok where you will be in and out of 7/11s most of the time. 

To have a more controlled budget it might be a good idea to choose a gym package with training, accommodation and food. However, this will also likely be more expensive than arrange everything while in Thailand. Training fees and a place to live will be your biggest expenses. Training 2 sessions a day will cost you around 300-500 USD/month. 

Regarding earning some extra money by working. I have friends who have been able to increase their travel budget by working extra as a PT or some kind of fitness instructor gig or getting free training by helping out at the gym with social media or admin or similar. But this is not an option I would count on. 

There's a Thai Embassy in Pretoria and their visa clerk has been very helpful to me in the past. Happy to DM her contact details in case you need. 

 

[gym/accommodation advice in BKK - 105kg 6'4" (11 years experience)]

1 hour ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

This right here. It's very hard to preserve gym culture, and have "reach". It's one reason that for several years Sylvie pretty much said nothing about her own gym, and promoted so many others...hahaha.

I can understand that. (Also because her gym seems incredibly nice.) But also gym culture being so dependent on atmosphere and the people training. A group of people coming to train can easily change things. I used to train with my husband, but now I am more or less alone training due to his work. And I feel my current gym changes with each group of people that comes and goes. I always wonder how it is for the thai fighters who sleep and train at the gym. 

[gym/accommodation advice in BKK - 105kg 6'4" (11 years experience)]

15 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

It's crazy that people aren't drawn there, and instead all flock to something like Yokkao. I mean, Yokkao is great for a certain kind of traveler. Lots love it, but many are looking for a fighters gym. Very interesting. I had no idea, to be honest. Would love to hear someone's personal experience there. I just assumed that because I heard nothing, nobody was going and there was a reason for that. I thought it was something like Pinsinchai gym.

I am also surprised, but maybe they do not market heavily as they focus on their thai fighters? I also heard something about 24000/month for training and accommodation (and food at the gym if I am not mistaken). I haven't heard from anyone who has been there long-term though. 

I have never been to yokkao but the image they send out on social media is not really what I am looking for. And I feel a lot of thai gyms do not get the reach what they deserve, but maybe that is why they are so nice haha. For example, there is one gym in Saphan kwai (Punrith) I used to go to when I first started out. Only girls working there including admin, PT and two tomboy trainers, one of them a member of the thai national western boxing team who also became a friend. Sadly both trainers left and I have not been there to try it out since. Back then I did not understand how great that was for me to have women as trainers. It is not a camp though and currently targeting Thai middle/upper class.  

 

[gym/accommodation advice in BKK - 105kg 6'4" (11 years experience)]

1 minute ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Do they accept foreigners? I always got the impression - from afar - that this was a closed gym.

Have not tried it myself but a friend has and yes, seems open to foreigners. Apparently very nice and clean. If you look at their instagram there are some westerners training, but I do not know whether there are certain conditions attached. 

[gym/accommodation advice in BKK - 105kg 6'4" (11 years experience)]

9 hours ago, Jonnylaw89 said:

Hi,

I'm looking for advice regarding a gym to train in, i've trained 6 months in phuket (back in 2010) and about 3 months in chiang mai (san kaempheng, specifically,) i'm 105kg 6'4 and have had 4 fights in thailand (i've been very inactive and have around 11 years experience), from looking online gyms in BKK seem to be very expensive? often near 40,000 for training and accommodation,

firstly, can anyone recommend a good gym in bkk, for western fighters. as i don't know bkk at all how easy is it to get accommodation? (as with everywhere in thailand i found you might pay 12,000 through the gym or 5k for somewhere you found of your own merit)

looking to go for around 90 days and ideally fight,

 

any help would much much appreciated, thank you kap

Hi there. There are quite a few options in Bangkok, as you mentioned most cost around 8000-12000 month for 2 sessions/day. 

My advice is to check gyms you are interested in on facebook or instagram to get an impression of what kind of people train there at the moment. It is so hard to recommend a place as trainers change, students change and so on. Organize accommodation for the first few days in Bangkok and visit a couple of gyms to get the feel for it. And then pick the one you prefer. 

If you want to fight, ask other foreigners at the gym if the gym helps you arrange fights and how well they prep you. Some gyms let their students wait forever, promising them fights that never happen...

Also at the moment it rains quite heavily now and then in BKK and some places get flooded easily. Might be worth to keep in mind when looking for a place to stay. 

Some gyms in the city that might be of interest to visit are: 

FA Group in Chatuchak (thai fighters and foreigners, they sometimes have quite a few larger guys)

Attachai (Onnut)

Muay thai academy/Rompo (Klong Thoey) Superbon trains there

Numponthep (also in Klong Thoey. Mix Thai fighters, Japanese/Chinese and some westerners. Currently no one heavier than 65-70 kilo training there)

PK Saenchai gym (Thawanchay, Rodlek and others train there)

Sathian gym (Sangmanee trains there if I am not mistaken)

...and then all the camps found here: https://muaythaicampsthailand.com/category/bangkok/

You can also ask here:  https://www.facebook.com/MuayThaiCampsThailand/

Good luck!

[How to Get Mongkol Blessed in Thailand]

9 hours ago, fightchase said:

I was interested to know the proper way to go about having a Mongkol bless at a temple. I recently got a Mongkol while training at Samart gym, they were making them right there. I do not speak enough Thai to go and ask on my own. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! 

I have a colleague who recently spent two weeks at a temple as a monk. I asked him if he could help me and he sent me a pic of three monks and told me to pick and choose . My advice would be do the same, ask a thai person you know (maybe use google translate?)to help you. Or simply bring your mongkol, visit a temple and ask. My experience is that most thai people are incredibly helpful about these things. 

[The Metaphysics of Muay Thai: Or, Why Muay Thai is the Greatest Artform in the World]

14 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

I feel you! I have to write this way, otherwise I just would never write. Every thought stream would require a book. I do apologize though, it is in a way inconsiderate to the reader. It's my vast compromise, just so I can get the sketch out, in a way to propel another thought, or give a wispy gust of wind to another person's mental sail, if I can put it like that! Something to move everything along.

I totally thank you for that effort!

No worries I feel more educated than before :). 

14 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

This is the extended passage from Sylvie's post on her sak yant, to which I referred above and was remembering. She says it better than I ever could. It influenced me in these thoughts on the gap. Re-reading it now it is interesting that she directly compares it to the kind of training Kru Nu does in terms of Muay Thai, the kind of stretching of a person required:

 

Thank you for this elaboration. I think I grasp the concept the way you do. I say grasp because i is more the feeling of having them on the tip of my tongue.

I remember this post very well. I am not sure to what degree Vipassana, yoga philosophy and art of sak yant overlap, but to me it all seem to stem from the same idea of accepting what is, instead of trying to escape from it. Surrender to the now. Most of my yoga teachers have emphasized the necessity of stop trying to escape from the present (the difficult, uncomfortable pose) and simply breathe into it and just accept what is. By pointing out how, when being told to stay in a difficult pose, our minds keep trying to convince us to think about other things or trying to calculate how long the teacher will hold us in that pose, we discover how we all try to escape from the now (what is). Adding the physical experience to the mental thought process is very effective for understanding. 

The same teacher I paraphrased also once told me that the most skilled martial artists are not the ones who can endure the pain, but the ones who choose not to absorb it. Sort of pain is inevitable, suffering is voluntary kind of thought. 

 

 

[The Metaphysics of Muay Thai: Or, Why Muay Thai is the Greatest Artform in the World]

It always takes a while for me to get through your texts. There are many expressions used you leave undefined. And many references (although I speak German fluently 555) I'm not familiar with and I have to ask myself whether this is an English word I don't know or another reference I'm not familiar with(555×2). This text I read backwards and then uh the normal way (forward?).

And it was so worth the effort. I can somewhat grasp it, the space, the dramatic pause and how well the fighters can endure it and manage it. Maybe I'm interpreting what you wrote differently than how it was intended, but it reminds me of a yoga teacher I had some years back. Who would keep us in poses forever encouraging us to feel and fully embrace the discomfort and later in shavasana repeating how we now are comfortable, we feel pleasure ONLY because "there was discomfort before and without discomfort there can be no pleasure. Everything is two. They come together. Except yoga. Yoga is one" (imagine an Indian accent).

Obviously you can understand this intellectually, but feeling the contrast between discomfort and pleasure and resisting the urge to run away from the discomfort makes you understand it in a different way. 

And to me this how I can see great fighters (after having read this). Not only the unreal body control and fluidity. But who can endure and manage the uncertainty + extreme discomfort (=fear) caused by what you call the gap. 

[The Great 8 of Thailand - The Best Female Fighters in the World]

2 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Maybe you can work with us if this starts to get rolling. I'm looking to build a team of maybe 4 people to organize the larger-reaching, structural aspects of the changes we are hoping to bring. Sounds like you are simpatico with a lot of what this is about.

I would be more than pleased to help in any way I could be useful!

[The Great 8 of Thailand - The Best Female Fighters in the World]

10 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

 Most promotional efforts in Thailand are very short-sighted, people are thinking "How can I make money?!" instead of "How can I change and improve the entire thing?" For that reason they are often imagining: How do I make it bigger?! Which ends up with it being not very big, ironically enough.

I agree. Which I off topic think is so fascinating as it stands in stark contrast to how muay thai is taught/learnt in Thailand (referring to your thread discussing the western preferred structural approach to learning). The Asian region has some of the smartest people in the world, yet China for example is in need of engineers from the west and international companies in India hire graphic designers from the west, both these phenomenons because although a craft or profession can be mastered perfectly, the creative problem-solving aspect and holistic approach are many times not there. Perhaps due to more authoritarian teaching systems in school. (really not trying to be offensive here). Anyhow drifting off. 

Eager to hear more about this as it progresses, I think it sounds really awesome. 

[The Great 8 of Thailand - The Best Female Fighters in the World]

11 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Yes, there is a lot of "superstar" thinking in Thailand. This is really about taking care of and feeding an entire community of Muay Thai development, not finding a superstar. It's a rising tide approach. But, genuinely, if you raised the tide of the largest female fighting community in the world, you would end up producing superstars with international opportunity.

Thanks a lot for this elaboration. It sounds extremely exciting and I hope you get the right ears to talk to. I assume this would also involve non-thai female fighters fighting in Thailand? 

From my personal experience in the bangkok fitness community, there seems to be a lot of excitement for female strength and women starting to like the idea of having a muscular body beyond ab definition. that in combination with muay thai fitness being popular among the thai middle and upper classes might be helpful driving factors. 

From an international perspective I think the issues of sexism, the bottom rope, women not being able to fight at national stadiums combined with the child labour issue might be problematic. But that might not matter in this case anyway.  

[The Great 8 of Thailand - The Best Female Fighters in the World]

On 6/17/2019 at 9:29 PM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

I'm not entirely sure I understand. The problem is speaking to the right person, the person who actually has her/his hand on a lever, and the kind of freedom and flexibility to exercise vision. There are not a lot of people like this is most companies. If you aren't talking to the right people you are just wasting your time, unfortunately! I have a very good feeling about this though. I can intuit that it's going to break open in a very good way.

I'm following this with interest. So your aim is to create financial incentives in Thailand for gyms to invest in female fighters? And your strategy would be a fight promotion that a)involves prize money and b) gives these fighters exposure?

Who do you need to convince here? Companies/sponsors who see the potential? Or the current stakeholders in the fight scene? 

Is there a regulatory body that needs to get involved as well? Meaning the pushback or reluctance to invest in female fighters, where does it stem from in your view? Traditions? Limited opportunities? Rules and regulations?

I feel that Thai people are always supportive of things that make them internationally recognized, that if a thai athlete gets fame overseas they welcome him/her with open arms. So having a thai female superstar fighter abroad might change things at home? (...like Stamp). Imagine a female Buakaw I mean..

Also what about int muay thai federation? Do they have any driving power in Thailand? 

 

[Teaching Muay Thai to the Mentally Challenged]

4 hours ago, Jeremy Stewart said:

Thank you for the advice. I'm very keen to start their lessons. I believe everyone can benefit from training. My biggest concern is how to keep their interest. I'm really stepping into unknown territory for me. I will just take it as comes and make the necessary adjustments to each individual. Their, (I don't what you'd call him), teacher will be participating as well so this should make things go smoother. 

In my humble opinion, that you take the time to ask for advice and that you reflect on this task like you've done here, really shows how dedicated you are as a teacher. It makes me really happy. I'm pretty sure it goes well and I'm very curious to hear how it pans out. I have no experience whatsoever in teaching and I would look forward to hearing your perspective on this experience. 

[Teaching Muay Thai to the Mentally Challenged]

Not sure what you mean with mentally challenged (I think a more preferred term is intellectual disability, when I worked with issues related to disabilities, we called it 'people living with disabilities' in policy documents and legal texts) but I have a brother with a developmental disability which makes non-verbal communication and social interaction for him difficult. He also has problems with coordination and balance etc. Sports together with other people living with disabilities has been a great blessing for him through which he found friends and even his fiancee. He always calls his teachers by their first name. For him it's hard to get several instructions at once, a more first A then B then C-approach is better. But he can practice one thing for hours and hours and hours without getting bored.

My advice. Just be open and friendly and curious and patient. 

[Banchamek Village or Fairtex Gym for Foreigners?]

Do you want to train mainly or are you looking at fighting as well? If you haven't fought yet, but want to, you might want to look at Phuket. From what I've heard training might not the greatest everywhere, but quite easy to get fights as beginners. Bangkok has many good gyms, but getting a fight as beginner can get tricky.

I heard great stuff about PK Saenchai gym where Tawanchay, Rodlek and many others train and you also see them there regularly. There's also FA Group (very clinch focused) in Chatuchak which is not far from Ari a very nice neighborhood sort of hipster area of Bangkok. They have many great fighters such as Yothin. Mixed thai fighters and foreigners with a higher skill level. For a "true" thai experience there's Numponthep gym in Klong Toey (sort of regarded as the slum of Bangkok, but not bad at all and close to Sukumvit) very simple facilities but good training. Nonsai who many westerners know come there to teach now and then. Sitjaopho in Hua Hin I also heard should be really great. And there's Lionheart on Koh Samui run by a nice Irish fighter and his family. Bit touristy and many beginners but still very nice.

But I want to make you aware that if you want a true Thai experience the way I understand it, this means you won't be important. The Thai fighter is the focus and foreigners a side business. That doesn't mean you won't get good training, just that focus is not on you. At gyms where the foreigner is main figure well...it won't be the most thai experience I guess you would be looking for. 

Most gyms regardless of what they are will have great teachers that take pride in teaching their art. But also, they see thousands and thousands of foreigners of all skill levels come and go and that's just the way it is... It's difficult to build relationships in a short time. 

My advice would be to find a nice gym in a nice area/town you also like. Not pay in advance. Get a room close-by and make sure you are comfortable and happy so you can enjoy and learn as much as possible. 

[Women fighting & training - how do you feel, similarities and differences with men.]

14 hours ago, Oliver said:

Then comes to Bangkok and wants to be king of the white people. 

 

Oh yes that guy

[Women fighting & training - how do you feel, similarities and differences with men.]

10 hours ago, Oliver said:

Living with the same one gym over there pretty long term, this doesn't seem familiar. Apart from maybe like, 1 douchebag the entire time who was gone in a week, all the other foreign dudes were cool as fuck and hardworking and got friendly. All the politics and bullshit happened back home, and it was the best thing ever to leave all that behind.

 

Oh nice to hear hope that's more representative :). About secrets not shared was told to me by a male fighter friend who explained certain clinch moves to me. He sort of expressed that actually he's not supposed to tell me all this, I'm supposed to figure out by myself. In the context of not being good sportsmanship. And this why even his western fighter friends wouldn't share (you learn the hard way sort of thing). Which led me to realise I've done so much thinking abt how it is for women in gym and sort of assumed all boys have this lovely bromance oiling each other up and all that, even though I've seen what's happening in sparring, I havent really contemplated too much about their internal politics. 

[Women fighting & training - how do you feel, similarities and differences with men.]

10 hours ago, threeoaks said:

This is super NOT off topic.  It’s definitely a social condition of gym life.  I’ve been lucky to meet a free great, generous & skilled women, and I’ve met two who had it out for any women perceived to take coach attention from them. Sometimes it’s sexual,  sometimes it’s Daddy issues (both?).  But either way like you & Sylvie pointed out, it’s a side effect of scarcity.  I like your Realpolitik attitude (“more power to the sexy girl garnering attention, or the rough girl destroying shins).   

Thank you! I've met most very lovely women (actually my favorite had just been training with Sylvie for a week and I can tell why Sylvie liked her) and then those who sort of directly want to dominate or compete with me or simply ignoring me only want to spar with the guys. It's annoying but also interesting to see what strategies are applied (Haha yes Realpolitik indeed).

[Women fighting & training - how do you feel, similarities and differences with men.]

7 hours ago, AndyMaBobs said:

My SO has said similar things. There was a lady she used to train with, who would come in with her teenage daughter weekly. The Mum and Daughter didn't always get on and would end up kinda fighting in sparring class. She said that both of them had an attitude problem and after that would be trying to fight EVERYONE in the class in sparring. 

You get rough sparring sessions all the time, but with those two in particular it was toxic - which was a real shame because this was in a woman's only class where there are people who are specifically there to avoid that sort of pigheadedness. 

Uuuh that sounds hectic. I feel that level of respect for each other has to go up in parallel to the hardness of sparring otherwise it gets so ugly and emotional affecting everyone. 

[Women fighting & training - how do you feel, similarities and differences with men.]

...and in terms of difference between men and women from a student perspective I feel the biggest difference is how women and men are treated not the way they act. I might be wrong, but there are all these kind of student types and in my experience both women and men display these types. 

The hardest sparring I always get from women (or uncontrolled newbie guys) probably as a consequence from women sparring mainly (bigger) men and used to go hard. 

I've been told though by western guys, they feel women have it easier in Thailand because we get taught more tricks (perhaps because of flirting or we're not seen as threats) whereas guys are supposed to figure themselves out on their own. Even among western fighter guy friends secrets are not shared. Which was a surprise to me and threw me out off this "it's so unfair because I'm a woman"-loop a bit (although it definitely still sucks being read as a woman in many ways).