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Understanding the Origins of Muay Thai and the Kingdom of Ayutthaya: A Cosmopolitan History of Influence


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above, a painting of Ayutthaya, Johannes Vinckboons 1662-1663 - Ayutthaya named after the Indian city Ayodhya the legendary capital of the Hindu hero-king Rama.

More or less every story of the origin, and therefore really the essence of Muay Thai relates to it developing out of warring Kingdoms, at source coming from the North in very old migrations from Southern China, or from the Khmer in the Northeast. And no doubt these are very strong cultural roots, even its foundation. But, what seems to be left out was the likely possibility it also developed out of the significant and centuries-long engagement with the extensive trade networks reaching as far as China & Japan, Persia and India, not to mention southern powers the present day Indonesian Archipelago. Very likely Muay Boran grew, not only in the context of land-bound warring kingdoms within Siam, it also grew in dialogue and contact with 600 years of mercenary & maritime trade. Perhaps what made Muay Thai (Boran) unique were its battle-field origins, but also its ability to absorb from its cosmopolitan, internationalist influences. A true "mixed" martial art?

Below are three really good articles for understanding the nature of the Ayutthaya Kingdom, out of which the history and the mythology of Thailand's Muay Thai is said to have grown. I think there is a tendency, especially in countries of the West which are far removed from Southeast Asian history, to view Ayutthaya, and indeed Thailand itself in a very bound, isolated way. If you've visited the ruins of Ayutthaya, or have seen photographs, it can just feel like an architecture in the landscape. It's 40 miles from the sea. To think about how Muay Thai in its origins may have only derived from warring in the region is to really miss out on what Ayutthaya was. It was an incredibly diverse maritime trading power, with thousands of nationals from all over the world, at one point the largest city in Southeast Asia. Chinese had been there for nearly 500 years. 100s of mercenaries, if not 1,000s from every sea-faring power in residence. In the 1670s the King Narai of Ayutthaya had a personal guard of 200 Indo-Persian warriors. The Kingdom lasted for 400 years. The cultural, cross-pollinating depth of what Ayutthaya must have been, not only in terms of language and ideas, but also in terms of exposure to various fighting techniques and styles, must have been immense.

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Part of this is understanding that Siam (Thailand) sat atop (North of) a rich archipelago, which along with the Gulf of Siam has been compared to an Asian "Mediterranean Sea", through which ran trade routes from China to Persia. The Gulf of Thailand for 100s upon 100s of years was networked with far-reaching trade. Much of it passed south, around the bottom of the Malaysian peninsula (around modern day Singapore), but there was also a land portage passage, where goods crossed the peninsula to the North. When the Portuguese took control of Malacca, and the Southern passage (1511), this Ayutthaya-controlled land portage path to India & Persia became even more important. Trade had been thriving along this peninsula, what is now Southern Thailand and Northern Malaysia, for more than 1,000 years.

I included a map of cities and towns that are mentioned in the reading, just to give a sense of location and distance. What really made Ayutthaya special (and powerful) was the way in which it connected Chinese, Japanese, Malay and Javanese, Persian and Indian peoples to the Northern Kingdoms of Chiang Mai, Lanna, Sukhothai, etc. It was an immense, cosmopolitan melting pot, at one point the largest city in Southeast Asia. That is what Muay Thai grew out of.

You should be able to read JSTOR articles with a simple Google login.

Ayutthaya Rising: From Land or Sea? (2003)

Chris Baker

This article takes on the story of how Ayutthaya rose as a Kingdom. Academically, it seems, it was thought to be a land power which harnessed the Kingdoms north of it and then eventually grow toward the sea. Chris Baker argues that Ayutthaya was actually a maritime trading power from its beginning, with very strong connections to Chinese trade (at one point the most documented trading partner of China, in terms of volume). At the confluence of 3 rivers it was a hub of trade that came from the South China Sea, with control reaching down to the Malay peninsula. Only after it grew as a trade power did it become a land power.

 
Ayutthaya and the Indian Ocean in the 17th and 18thCenturies: International Trade, Cosmopolitan Politics, and Transnational Networks (2017)

Bhawan Ruangsilp and Pimmanus Wibulsilp

This article was fascinating for me, and gives light to just how international a Kingdom Ayutthaya was. It describes the political powers and machinations of Persian officials within the Ayutthayan government. Some of the most powerful men in Ayutthaya were Persians. It's not just a story of fractional politics. It illuminates just how big a role far-reaching Persian trade to the West, across the land portage, played in Ayutthaya's identity. Over these 100s of years there must have been cross-pollination of fighting techniques.

 

"The Sea Common to All": Maritime Frontiers, Port Cities, and Chinese Traders in the Southeast Asian Age of Commerce, ca. 1400-1750 (2010)

CRAIG A. LOCKARD

This article takes focus on the culture of the Sea upon which the Ayutthaya wealth was partly built. For me it was an essential essay in thinking about just what Ayutthaya was, not only as a political power, but in terms of thinking about the cultural contexts in which Muay Boran (Muay Thai) developed. Along with trade comes warfare, in a broader sense. But also a rich, diverse port city culture presents endless occasions of physical confrontation, in small groups or man-to-man. Mercenary populations abounded. Piracy was a continual concern.

 

A few caps on mercenary use from the above articles:

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and, (though the million man number is dubious)

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and,

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a link to my map on Google Earth - in this graphic you can see the southern Siamese portage peninsula cities (yellow), the northern Siamese kingdoms (blue), western Indo-Persian trade centers (orange, to the left), the Malay archipelago cities (bottom, purple), and the eastern city centers on the way to China (purple left). It gives a sense of how vast the reach of cultures was in the Kingdom of Ayutthaya. You need to read the articles in the first post to specify it.

In many respects this is about how to deal with historical fable. In saying that the lore of Muay Thai history is composed of fable does nothing to minimize it. In fact the stories of the roots of the art and sport go a long way towards orienting ourselves to its value, and in Thailand how Muay Thai is anchored can be of extreme importance. Peter Vail's article on the National symbology of Muay Thai is a good discussion of this: Muay Thai – Inventing Tradition for a National Symbol – Peter Vail PDF (full article) For me, as a Westerner coming to Thailand's Muay Thai I did so with a degree of naivete. Only very broad, perhaps exoticized pictures of the antiquity of the art, home-grown in the wars and battles of a faraway land - battle tested if you will - populated my conception. Visiting the ruins of Ayutthaya, or even seeing the brick reconstructed walls of Chiang Mai's inner city only gave more reality to what really were fable-istic ideas of Siam history. But, what persisted through it all was the idea that Muay Thai (and its Muay Boran antecedents) where uniquely Thai, and had developed in something of a cultural test tube, cut off from the outside world. This involved very broad notions that even things like Western Boxing were not really known to Muay Thai until fairly recently, or the idea that when Westerners came to fight in Thailand in the 1980s and 1990s this was some sort of breaking of the seal, on an otherwise closed evolution of the fighting art. Or the idea that today's pressures for Muay Thai to change under Western and globalized commodified forms were the first real radical disturbances of what Muay Thai was. Forgive the simplicity of these pictures. I do feel they are fairly common for people unconnected to a culture that is not their own. As I read I came into contact with theories of Muay Thai's origin in migrations from the North, and the similarities that are found in Myanmar (Burma), Cambodia (Khmer) and Laos. But Thailand's Muay Thai held a certain distinctness, a kind of bold relief, that seemed to cut it out away from those lineage connections. And, I was always aware that when other, culturally competing countries proclaimed their originality of Thailand's Muay Thai there was always a sort of ideologically game going on. They nearly always contain a kind of "Who's your daddy?" rhetorical force which is Asian culture is substantial. Finding and revering the root of something is of great importance, in terms of its meaning. That being said, the Kingdom of Ayutthaya features prominently in anchoring the very Thai-ness of Muay Thai's history. It was a rich, long standing Kingdom of much renown, and when the Chakri Dynasty founded itself in the new capital of Bangkok it took great care to actually build the royal edifices out of the very bricks and materials of fallen Ayutthaya. The name "Ayutthaya" was even put in the formal name of Bangkok itself. Bangkok was a New Ayutthaya, the unbroken lineage to Ayutthaya was extremely important. And even today there are Muay Thai/Muay Boran celebrations in the city of Ayutthaya on Muay Thai day. Ayutthaya is the ballast which allows the Muay Thai ship to sail, historically and ideologically speaking.

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It was for this reason why reading these essays were eye-opening for me. They pealed back the photos of the ruins of Ayutthaya and opened a window into just what Ayutthaya was. I've read them several times, pulling from them the brief first-person descriptions, and authorial summations which made Ayutthaya vivid. It was very different than anything I had half-conjured in my mind in the first years of my love for Muay Thai and living in Thailand.

Instead of august ruins and fallen temples I saw a rich port city that was home to an incredible array of the worlds cultures. It was called "The Venice of the East" in its time, and like powerful trading ports presented a confluence of influences. And...importantly did so for 100s of years, longer than the existence of my own country the United States. If Ayutthaya in some way - symbolically, ideologically, and culturally - anchored what Muay Thai was, this was quite an anchor. Japanese mercenaries and pirates who brought their own fighting styles, fought along side Siamese warriors, and lived in the city for centuries came in contact with 1,000s Chinese junk traders and their families, who also lived in the city, in their own quarters. Indo-Persian troops who guarded the King in the 17th century, with their own warfare styles, no doubt in contact with Siamese fighters. And this is just in terms of martial events such as raiding, warring, suppressing pirates, exacting tributes, in which company was no doubt mixed. If one draws to mind the realities of what port-city life is like: gambling districts, gang crime, syndicates, drinking houses over 100s of years there must have been group on group, man on man agonism, where fighting techniques played out against each other. Even if peoples kept to their own kind in a highly structured society - and we know there were quarters for every culture - over centuries the cross-pollination in lived struggle, in back alleys and on docks had to have a certain cumulative effect of knowledge sharing. Even in the most ideologically restrained contexts when actual fighting is happening, what works is what is valued. Whether this is in raiding parties or in settling unpaid gambling debts there is little room for show.

What is fascinating is that Muay Boran (Muay Thai) grew in part out of this melting pot of fighting style reality, the actual docks and floating gambling houses, as well as mercenary-enriched martial battles and skirmishes, but also retained its distinctness, and regional character. I suspect that this is something that Muay Thai (and perhaps even Siamese / Thailand) possessed, the ability to always incorporate the foreign, but to quite strongly mold it back into a very Siamese identity. To make it its own. To absorb and revalue. It does not really copy. It integrates.

When Muay Boran was ostensibly "created", that is to say officially recognized by King Chulalongkorn in 1909-1910, and demarcated into 4 regional types, it actually was on it way out, so to speak. The recognition of the art was at the historical precipice of its modernity. By 1928 gloved fighting would become mandatory and Muay Thai would be reborn in the image of British Boxing, with weight classes, padded and roped rings, and fixed stadia. You can see a timeline of these events here. It was a time of a great modernization (and Westernization) of Bangkok as a cosmopolitan city of the world. In the year 1900 there were 3,000 British nationals working in the Bangkok police force. When you read about the modernizing years of 1900-1932, under the dialogue with the culture of foreign Nations from far across the world, and you read about the great trading power of the cosmopolitan city of Ayutthaya, you realize that this wasn't the first time for such a cross-pollination. New Ayutthaya was in the model of Old Ayutthaya, at the center of a great confluence of culture.

There can be no doubt that in Muay Thai's history there are distinct regional styles of Muay Boran that grew out of geographic isolation. Muay Khorat (from the Northeast) was different than Muay Chaiya (from the south), and it is a suspicion that it was the building of railroad lines connecting Bangkok to Khorat (1900), the South (1907), Lampang (1916) and Chiangmai (1921) that produced an enormous flowering in Muay Thai, as styles that grew regionally, in 1,000s of festival fights came in contact with each other in the new rings and then stadia of Bangkok. Part of what is beautiful about Muay Thai, even today's Muay Thai, is that it has grown out of regional branches, branches of which experienced relative independent growth and stabilization within the cultures and customs of that province, and that these branches have periodically been brought together at various times and ways in history. The building of the railroads in the early part of the 20th century and the formalizing of the sport in the early part of the 20th century was one, the great economic boom of the 1980s and 1990s, and promotional Muay Thai of the Golden Age, another. These regionalizations of Muay Thai I believe were very important to its distinctive and rich character, the times that it did develop in isolation, in niches, in festivals. It gives it great particularity and definition. But, I think what the character of the Ayutthaya Kingdom also tells us is that these distinctive isolations also, for centuries upon centuries came in contact with other modes of warfare, other fighting styles, not in terms of adversaries (though that is no-doubt true), but in terms of cohabitation and mercenary/martial mixing. It is likely just an incredible mixed and mixing martial art. And has been for maybe 800 years.

 

 

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Looking back to Ayutthaya in an attempt to discern individual styles or even techniques, as found in the historical record, runs straight into sheer projection, as there is almost no historical trace of fighting styles of the time. And the effort to ground regional Boran fighting styles with particular teaching lineages is fraught with mythologization and sometimes commercial interests, as if "true" lines of fighting techniques have been preserved and need to be defended through teaching trees for group identity reasons. Muay Boran is an ideologically intense and historically thin area of study and performance, frustrated by how shallow the existing historical roots are. As the legendary Arjan Surat once told us, speaking of the Muay Boran revival in Thailand, pointing to his own Chaiya teacher "If he didn't know, how do they know?" Arjan Surat (who you can study here), unlike many makes very little show about his teacher (below is a portrait he hangs of the training ring), instead he's been training ring-legends for 40 years. Attempting to reconstruct to preserve has its limits.

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Arjan Surat's Chaiya teacher: Bramajarn Khet Sriyaphai ปรมาจารย์มวย เขตร์ ศรียาภัย

But taking up the notion of regional development of distinctive Muay Boran styles, and that there has been a cultural localization that comes from geographic isolation, we recognize the ways in which the geographically isolated Boran of rice-fields and Lao-decedent (Khmer) villages in the Northeast would have had distinctively different influences than say the Boran of the Southern peninsula (Chiaya), amid a littoral culture of trade which had been exposed to Malay, Javan & Indo-Persian (as well as later Chinese influences) for perhaps more than 1,000 years. That's 1,000 years of raid-and-trade culture, in the South.

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All these peninsula towns of the South were part of the substantial land-portage passage to India and Persia, a bridge between Persia-India and China. You can see Chaiya there. Perhaps more importantly, the entire peninsula was under the control of the 600 year thalassocratic Srivijaya empire (650–1275). You can see Chaiya listed below as a center of Srivijaya power. There is an 8th century Buddhist inscription in Ligor, among the earliest known on the peninsula.

You can read a general summary of the Srivijaya empire here: The Srivijaya Empire: trade and culture in the Indian Ocean. It's influence on art, religion (bringing Buddhism and Brahministic practices) for centuries was likely immense on the peninsula. The Chaiya of Muay Chaiya came out of this history, a history of what has been called the "Mediterranean Sea" of the East, which positions the peninsula culture in the pathways of trade (and its warfare) itself, long after the Srivijaya had fallen. The Sukhothai Kingdom (previous to the Ayutthaya Kingdom, and upriver from it), sent as many as a 100 boats to exact tribute on the peninsula in the 1300s. Would it be too far afield to imagine that the very grounded, switching, torso rotations of present day Muay Chaiya dynamics (as taught for instance by Kru Lek in Bangkok) were also amenable to close-quarter maritime fighting, even aboard boats? If we are anchoring fighting styles in their regions, and real fighting contexts, the mixed cultures of port life, littoral culture and international trade as far as India and China, which extends back more than 1,000 years, do seem like candidates for influence. If Buddhism and temple architecture can be brought by a sea empire, one assumes that real-world fighting techniques also would cross-pollinate.

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While there is no direct connection of Srivijaya fighting techniques and Siam Southern styles, quite common and sought after in the 19th and early 20th centuries were practices in (religious) Magical arts. These were Brahman yants, rituals and potions said to imbue a fighter with impervious skin. Bandits and local chieftain authorities regarded these as essential fighting powers. These were reported of the Srivijaya warriors nearly 700 years before (in the year 1178, cited above source here). These practices were famous in the Wat Khao Aor in the South (Phatthalung), a historic center of the wicca of fighting magic built around a sacred cave thought to have been a place of worship for 1,000 years. It is not a stretch to imagine that these magical warfare practices, in part, came from the Srivijaya era and influence (Vajrayana Buddhism), woven together with Buddhism and Brahmanism that also was spread through the sea-faring Empire, distinct from the saiyasat magical practices of the Khmer Empire to the Northeast. (For more on the unique Brahman religious history of the mid-South.) If techniques of magical warfare practice can be transmitted, so too could fighting techniques and styles. You can read more about these magical practices in the biography of the famed early 20th century Southern policeman Khun Phantharakratchadet (1898–2006) (see the link at the bottom of this post).

These are my photos of Wat Khao Aor, a kind of 19th century southern "Vedic" Magical University in terms of the fighting arts, still a very sacred place.

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On Khun Phantharakratchadet (1898–2006):

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read it online here

 

Also as part of this thread:

 

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Keep in mind, this is not a thesis or even a theory. This is just a re-framing I've experienced as a result of my research and reading, sharing sources. The historical record around Muay Thai before 1900 is very thin, so the degree to which we can project things back into that absence can be quite large. This is just bringing in new elements of context filling in some of the borders of that aporia with historical evidence and perspective. There is no attempt of proving something here, so much as maybe re-orienting the compass work of our projections.

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  • Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu changed the title to Understanding the Origins of Muay Thai and the Kingdom of Ayutthaya: A Cosmopolitan History of Influence

At the confluence of 3 rivers, an annotated map of the capital Ayutthaya in 1687.

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French hydrographer Jacques Nicolas Bellin (1703-1772). He published in l’Abbé Prévost's "Histoire
Générale des Voyages
" of 1751 a map of Ayutthaya named “Plan de la Ville de Siam, Capitale du Royaume de ce Nom; Levé par un
Ingénieur François en 1687
” based on sketches made probably by the French engineer M. de La Mare

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Japanese Presence and Influence In Ayutthaya

Yamada_Nagamasa_warship_(1789).thumb.jpg.43daa217f2d1e995c28bcb9e67f5c8b8.jpg

 

Reproducing a the chapter on Japan and Siam from the book MULTICULTURAL JAPAN
Palaeolithic to Postmodern
EDITED BY DONALD DENOON, MARK HUDSON,
GAVAN McCORMACK, AND TESSA MORRIS-SUZUKI

This is a very succinct, but detailed telling of the history Japanese in the city of Ayutthaya, and their possible influence on the Kingdom, including the telling of the story of Yamada Nagamasa which sometimes is a bit embellished. It does set up the context for martial influence on Ayutthaya, including the import of valued swords, prized Japanese mercenaries, the problem of Japanese pirates, and contact with Ryukyu Island (Okinawan) culture.

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For background on the nature and use of Japanese mercenaries in Southeast Asia during this period, merchant and mercenary fused together

Book Chapter 7 ‘Great help from Japan’: The Dutch East India Company’s experiment with Japanese soldiers

excerpts, download below

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AND

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From the Book The Dutch and English East India Companies: Diplomacy, Trade and Violence in Early Modern Asia

 

download the full chapter here

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    • The above is a rough sketch of the triune circulations that engendered Thailand's rural Muay Thai, under the description of Peter Vail's dissertation "Violence & Control: Social and Cultural Dimensions in Thai Boxing" (1998). His dissertation captures Muay Thai just after its peak in the Golden Age (1980-1994), and focuses on the region around Khorat. what follows is just going to be some broadbrush patterning drawn from the work, and my other readings on Siamese/Thai history and that of Southeast Asia. One of the things that Peter Vail is really good at is bringing together Thailand's Muay Thai and Buddhism, especially in the production of (ideal) masculinity. In this post you can read about that nexus: Thai Masculinity: Positioning Nak Muay Between Monkhood and Nak Leng. The sketch above brings out the larger, more materialist aspects of the relationship between Buddhism and Muay Thai, the way in which Thai wats (temples) operate within the production of merit (positive spiritual karma), in parallel to how Thai kaimuay (camps) and festival fights (often on temple grounds) operate to produce earned income, through a gambling (chance-status) marketplace of fighting. These two economies flow both merit and income into the (here very simplified) subsistence economy of rice farming. Thai farming labor does not really make money, nor particularly symbolic merit, and its sons become novice monks or nak muay, just to name two options, each of which circulate in the community. Merit, social status & income flow from these into the family. And following Vail, the kaimuay-festival-fight machine produces a culturally ideal masculinity, just as the wat-machine produces spiritual capital (as well as its own idealized masculinity). Each of them supplement to the middle circulation. You can see more economic details and some graphs of the relationship between local fighting and rural subsistence, in this post:   There is another really interesting aspect that comes to the fore when you drawn back and see these three circulations side by side. Historically Siamese kingdoms drew their power largely through seasonal slave raiding warfare. Whole rural, outlying communities were captured and relocated to nearby lands where they could work as farmers and also serve in the military. There was a double sided dimension to their capture and labor that then persists, transformed, in these 3 circulations. It is as if the rural economies of Muay Thai in the 20th century expressed the much older divisions of slave and then indentured service of Siam's past. Rural farmers no longer worked for the kingdom, but rather worked to pay back loans (in patronage relationships which operated like a safety net against unsure crops), and sons (as nak muay) not only served in the national military, but also produced a warrior hypermasculinity in the art form and local fighting custom of Muay Thai. What was slavery (or a strongly indentured/corvee hierarchy) developed into a community of rural farming (with little hope for social advancement) and the art of Muay Thai festival fighting, which provided income in supplement to the farming way of life. When Slavery was abolished in Siam, by the Slavery Act R.S. 124 (1905), the Military Conscription Act came along with it, binding the newly freed young men to military service. In 1902, three years prior, religious reforms were passed against non-Thammayut Buddhism mahanikai practices – (often including magical practices). Siam sought to standardize Buddhism, but it was also working to shift political power away from regional wats and religious leaders. The Siamese wat likely carried its own largely unwritten history of Muay Thai heritage, a keeper and trainer of the technical art of Muay Thai (Boran), along side the arts of magical combat. (The history of the famed early 20th century policeman Khun Phantharakratchadet and his training at Wat Khao Aor is a very good case study). This was a potentiated martial force. Undermining the martial powers inherent in wat training, placing young men nationally under military conscription, and secularizing Muay Thai (including the formalization of Muay Boran schools and training, and its teaching in civic schools), moved trained man-power away from regional wats and the community. You can read a great account of this struggle between a central government and local religious power in "Of Buddhism and Militarism in Northern Thailand: Solving the Puzzle of the Saint Khruubaa Srivichai" (2014). For some time, after the Military Conscription Act, the main method of its legal avoidance was to become a monk. Siamese regional Buddhism and National military conscription stood at tension, as political and perhaps even to some degree martial man-powers. Several reforms worked to keep men from evading conscription via less-than-committed monkhood (for instance the institution the testing of the literacy of monks). This is only to say that the long history of Siamese Buddhism in the community, organized around the wat and the labor of village sons as novice monks, including the pedagogy of Muay Thai (Boran) lay in tension with the formation of a centralized, newly modernize Nation. When we see the circulation of sons' labor and merit in the wat, and the parallel festival fighting often under the auspices of the local wat, this is a deep rooted, historical connection. Muay Thai and the wat go together, and have gone together for perhaps much more than a century. These 3 circulations put the two in context with the 3rd of rural farming. above, the sacred cave of Wat Khao Aor near Phattalung in the South, where acolytes could undergo rites to make themselves magically invulnerable, my photograph The last provisional note I'd like to make is that in these 3 circulations you find a very ancient production. O. W. Walters, a preeminent historian of Southeast Asia takes pains to draw a picture of mainland kingdom leadership which saw the ideal masculine chief as possessing what he calls "soul stuff". This soul stuff is an animistic vital relationship to power that expresses itself spiritually and martially. A King or chief is chief not because of bloodline, he argues, but because of his spiritual and martial prowess, the union of these two dimensions of power. It is a mistake in perception to take Thailand's Muay Thai practices in isolation. In that it makes sense as a meaningful production, a production of various surpluses (not just monetary, but also cultural surpluses), both strands, Buddhism and Muay Thai, need to be seen in the braid, I would argue. As ancient chiefs were once regarded as martially and spiritually formidable, rural Muay Thai circulations have also been braided in the wider sociological sense, in the production of merit and masculinity. You can see Walters' notes on Soul Stuff and Martial/Spiritual prowess here:    
    • In November I'll be going to Thailand for 4 weeks mostly to train and hopefully fight. Last time I went to Phuket following @Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu's incredibly helpful advice, and muay thai-wise it was everything I wanted. However, I'm looking for a bit more of a pleasant place this time, maybe a bit less noisy and crowded. I'm considering Koh Samui, but I'm not sure if it fits that description, nor do I know anything about the muay thai scene there. Has anyone here fought in Koh Samui, or knows anything about the fight opportunities there? Any gym recommendations? Right now I'm fighting mostly pro-am (semi-pro?) in the UK, so I'm not exactly a beginner, but not a pro either. I walk around at 65-70kg and have a defensive, kick-heavy style. When I went to Phuket Fight Club I had no issues finding suitable sparring and clinching partners, but I'm wondering whether there are any gyms in Koh Samui that would provide that as well. I'm also open to other location suggestions 🙂
    • The Library is just really unusual content. There aren't really any demos or how tos. They are more like hour long physical dialogues with great legends of the sport. But, some sessions do have specific bagwork sections where a lot can be learned. Legends teach how they did bagwork, and how they trained techniques on the bags. Here is a list of sessions with bagwork in them, but you would have to watch the whole session. Colored sessions are some of the best overall sessions. Arjan Surat 1 - Old School Master Metprik Silachai - Old School Muay Maat Lowkick Pressure Yodwicha Por Boonsit 3 - Spearing the Middle, Fighting With Rhythm Wangchannoi Palangchai 1 - Deadly Step Counter Fighting Arjan Surat 2 - His Old School Tough & Defensive Style Langsuan Panyutapum - Monster Muay Khao Training Samson Isaan 1 - The Art of Dern Fighting Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukarn 2 - Muay Khao Craft Boraphet Pinsinchai 1 - Muay Khao Mastery Yodwicha Por Boonsit 2 - Clinch Techniques & Defense Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukarn 1  - The King of Knees Wangchannoi Sor Palangchai 3 - Advancing Counterfighting Matee Jedeepitak - The Keys To Femeu Timing & Distance Kaisuwit "Kru Pern" - Muay Maat Centrifugal Power Eagle Den Junlaphan 2 - Boxing Within Muay Thai Arjan Yai Muangsupan - Golden Age Forms & Dynamics Jampatong Na Nonthachai - The Master of the Head Kick Pudpadnoi Worawut - The Basics from the Legend Phetdam Sor Suradet - Style, Rhythm, and Timing Gulapkao Na Nonthachai - Old School Forms & Rhythms Tepniramit Sitsamnao | Defend and Punish Pairojnoi Sor. Siamchai - Balance, Footwork & Intensity Chanchai Sor. Tummarungsri - The King of Teeps Kru Ali Phet Kalim - Old School Forgotten Principles Manop Manop Gym 1 - The Art of the Teep Krongsak Prakong-Boranrat - That Shoving Energy Silapathai Jockygym - Master of Teep Distance Hippy Singmanee 1 - Developing Power   Thanks for all the kind words and support. As a beginner it may take a bit of effort to get into it, but because you are connecting to the pure thing, the real thing, the benefits will really be amazing.
  • The Latest From Open Topics Forum

    • Hi, this might be out of the normal topic, but I thought you all might be interested in a book-- Children of the Neon Bamboo-- that has a really cool Martial Arts instructor character who set up an early Muy Thai gym south of Miami in the 1980s. He's a really cool character who drives the plot, and there historically accurate allusions to 1980s martial arts culture. However, the main thrust is more about nostalgia and friendships.    Can we do links? Childrenoftheneonbamboo.com Children of the Neon Bamboo: B. Glynn Kimmey: 9798988054115: Amazon.com: Movies & TV      
    • Davince Resolve is a great place to start. 
    • I see that this thread is from three years ago, and I hope your journey with Muay Thai and mental health has evolved positively during this time. It's fascinating to revisit these discussions and reflect on how our understanding of such topics can grow. The connection between training and mental health is intricate, as you've pointed out. Finding the right balance between pushing yourself and self-care is a continuous learning process. If you've been exploring various avenues for managing mood-related issues over these years, you might want to revisit the topic of mental health resources. One such resource is The UK Medical Cannabis Card, which can provide insights into alternative treatments.
    • Phetjeeja fought Anissa Meksen for a ONE FC interim atomweight kickboxing title 12/22/2023. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu92S6-V5y0&ab_channel=ONEChampionship Fight starts at 45:08 Phetjeeja won on points. Not being able to clinch really handicapped her. I was afraid the ref was going to start deducting points for clinch fouls.   
    • Earlier this year I wrote a couple of sociology essays that dealt directly with Muay Thai, drawing on Sylvie's journalism and discussions on the podcast to do so. I thought I'd put them up here in case they were of any interest, rather than locking them away with the intention to perfectly rewrite them 'some day'. There's not really many novel insights of my own, rather it's more just pulling together existing literature with some of the von Duuglus-Ittu's work, which I think is criminally underutilised in academic discussions of MT. The first, 'Some meanings of muay' was written for an ideology/sosciology of knowledge paper, and is an overly long, somewhat grindy attempt to give a combined historical, institutional, and situated study of major cultural meanings of Muay Thai as a form of strength. The second paper, 'the fighter's heart' was written for a qualitative analysis course, and makes extensive use of interviews and podcast discussions to talk about some ways in which the gendered/sexed body is described/deployed within Muay Thai. There's plenty of issues with both, and they're not what I'd write today, and I'm learning to realise that's fine! some meanings of muay.docx The fighter's heart.docx
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