Jump to content
CSIBMOD

Stupid Achilles Tendonitis, how to heal?

Recommended Posts

Hi all, I started training Muay Thai about a year and a half ago. I train anywhere from 1 to 3 hours most days, including the usual jumping rope, running a bit, skip knees, drills, sparring? Etc.
 

It’s all going well except for the fact that my Achilles are completely f**ked. They hurt especially during jumping rope, running, and skip knees which are all integral to training. It’s been since last December that I’ve had this off and on, but mostly on, and it’s driving me crazy. 
 

Has anyone had this issue and find a way to address it? I’m doing physical therapy, stretching, strengthening exercise and it’s still an issue. All suggestions are welcome! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does it hurt more down towards the heel or more up towards your calf?

I had pain around the area but more upwards towards the calf and my trainer, who also does physical therapy and whatnot, told me that its not actually the tendon that is the problem here but the calf muscles. He was absolutely right as my physiotherapist confirmed. My problem was that with my heavy frame (1,94m, big man build) and lack of training beforehand, this area wasn't used to the strain of getting up on my toes a lot and cramps up easily.

Some (painful) massaging and foam rolling helped but I have to really keep treating those muscles after every training or they'll start acting up again.

 

Both therapists (my trainer and my physiotherapist) told me that if its really the tendon, it usually hurts down towards the heel.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi

If there's any long lasting swelling on your Achilles and depending on your age you may be heading in to Tendinosis territory, common amongst runners after a lay off, negative calf raises worked for me. there's plenty about it on You tube, might save you a trip to a physio.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get this in stretches when I'm doing a lot of jumping knees on the bag, also get it from skipping rope, etc. I get some relief from using a foam roller. I kneel on the ground with the tops of my feet against the floor, put the roller on the backs of my Achilles and then just sit on the top of the roller to create pressure. I don't move much, just leave the weight on it. I do this as a warm-up and cool-down. I also tape my ankle when the pain is a lot, as the compression seems to help.

My husband is a basketball fan and loves to freak out anytime my Achilles are hurting. He has a point. It's a very common injury and he says they can just snap if you don't warm them up properly or injure them too badly. That's pretty terrifying. I do try to get them massaged when they're very painful, which in Thailand isn't expensive but massage in other parts of the world can be pretty limiting due to cost. But mine go away and I forget that they were a problem until they become a problem again.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/21/2019 at 2:43 AM, Xestaro said:

Does it hurt more down towards the heel or more up towards your calf?

I had pain around the area but more upwards towards the calf and my trainer, who also does physical therapy and whatnot, told me that its not actually the tendon that is the problem here but the calf muscles. He was absolutely right as my physiotherapist confirmed. My problem was that with my heavy frame (1,94m, big man build) and lack of training beforehand, this area wasn't used to the strain of getting up on my toes a lot and cramps up easily.

Some (painful) massaging and foam rolling helped but I have to really keep treating those muscles after every training or they'll start acting up again.

 

Both therapists (my trainer and my physiotherapist) told me that if its really the tendon, it usually hurts down towards the heel.

I have NO idea why I never got notifications of responses her and I’m just seeing this now. Grrr. Anyhow, it down toward the heel. Strangely, the issue just sorta went away on its own. I changed the type of shoes I was wearing and all of a sudden the pain went away. Weird but I guess there is something to be said about supportive footwear. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/6/2019 at 9:16 AM, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:

I get this in stretches when I'm doing a lot of jumping knees on the bag, also get it from skipping rope, etc. I get some relief from using a foam roller. I kneel on the ground with the tops of my feet against the floor, put the roller on the backs of my Achilles and then just sit on the top of the roller to create pressure. I don't move much, just leave the weight on it. I do this as a warm-up and cool-down. I also tape my ankle when the pain is a lot, as the compression seems to help.

My husband is a basketball fan and loves to freak out anytime my Achilles are hurting. He has a point. It's a very common injury and he says they can just snap if you don't warm them up properly or injure them too badly. That's pretty terrifying. I do try to get them massaged when they're very painful, which in Thailand isn't expensive but massage in other parts of the world can be pretty limiting due to cost. But mine go away and I forget that they were a problem until they become a problem again.

For some reason, I never saw that anyone replied to my question. So weird. But I did start stretching much more, saw my physical therapist for some dry needling, and changed the shoes I was wearing and that seemed to get rid of the pain.
 

But I will start taping my ankles when I get back to more intense training. And the foam roller is always a good idea but one that I also always forget. Lol. I wish massages weren’t upwards of $100 an hour here. If I’m ever able to travel to Thailand, it will be a real treat to enjoy some massage. 

I was even running more to get ready to compete and it still got better. I guess I’m not going to be hobbling around forever. And I won my sparring tournament too, so everything worked out. Lol

My physical therapist did tell me that you have to be careful about the Achilles but that Achilles tendinitis doesn’t indicate that it will tear. We didn’t get into a big discussion about it so I can’t back that up with extra info. I would imagine that all the crazy jumping is what causes most basketball injuries which is less of a factor for MT. Maybe that will help your husband chill a little about the Achilles situation. 🤣

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/4/2019 at 7:33 AM, deano said:

Hi

If there's any long lasting swelling on your Achilles and depending on your age you may be heading in to Tendinosis territory, common amongst runners after a lay off, negative calf raises worked for me. there's plenty about it on You tube, might save you a trip to a physio.

It was definitely tendinitis but may have been getting worse. I’m 42 sooo, age is definitely a factor. My PT gave me some stretches and calf raises to deal with the issue. Dry needling helped too as did changing the type of shoes I wear.

its been some time since I asked this question But for some weird reason, I never any notifications. It’s almost gone at this point thankfully but it’s going to be a matter of proactively preventing a recurrence. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/7/2019 at 3:21 AM, CSIBMOD said:

I have NO idea why I never got notifications of responses her and I’m just seeing this now. Grrr. Anyhow, it down toward the heel. Strangely, the issue just sorta went away on its own. I changed the type of shoes I was wearing and all of a sudden the pain went away. Weird but I guess there is something to be said about supportive footwear. 

Good that you got it sorted out! 🙂

 

When I consulted my trainer about it he also treated my feet with some of his therapeutic torture instruments which was fucking painful but also helped. He went on a bit of a ramble about how people pay far too little attention to the health of their feet even though we all need them dayly for our whole lives and so much other stuff in your body depends on them as the form the basis of your posture and all.

He recommended using one of those spiky massage-balls for a bit every day. Basically you stand up and put one foot on the ball so you can create pressure, then you slowly move it back and forth. Doesn't exactly feel pleasant but helps to "unlock" your feet and the tendons in them.

When I saw him about it before showing me the thing with the ball he basically did the same thing to my feet with something that looked an awful lot like a handheld steel axe-blade 🤨

Yea well.... as my Kali trainer back in the day once said: "yea a healthy degree of sadism is necessary if you want to be a trainer."

Edited by Xestaro
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/11/2019 at 4:56 AM, Xestaro said:

Good that you got it sorted out! 🙂

 

When I consulted my trainer about it he also treated my feet with some of his therapeutic torture instruments which was fucking painful but also helped. He went on a bit of a ramble about how people pay far too little attention to the health of their feet even though we all need them dayly for our whole lives and so much other stuff in your body depends on them as the form the basis of your posture and all.

He recommended using one of those spiky massage-balls for a bit every day. Basically you stand up and put one foot on the ball so you can create pressure, then you slowly move it back and forth. Doesn't exactly feel pleasant but helps to "unlock" your feet and the tendons in them.

When I saw him about it before showing me the thing with the ball he basically did the same thing to my feet with something that looked an awful lot like a handheld steel axe-blade 🤨

Yea well.... as my Kali trainer back in the day once said: "yea a healthy degree of sadism is necessary if you want to be a trainer."

Thank you! This is a simple thing to incorporate into my training routine. Seems common sense that we need to pay attention to our feet but I never really thought about it. 
 

You had me cracking up about the sadism part. Definitely true! 🤣

  • hahaha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/13/2019 at 5:05 PM, CSIBMOD said:

Thank you! This is a simple thing to incorporate into my training routine. Seems common sense that we need to pay attention to our feet but I never really thought about it. 
 

You had me cracking up about the sadism part. Definitely true! 🤣

He said it while demonstrating some sort of joint lock on someone and had everybody flinch a little as they noticed how painful it was 😛

Now my current trainer.... he combines martial arts and physical therapy so he definitely is a sadist 🤣

I mean: I saw a few of his old fights from back in the day. He was this aggressive kind of fighter who threw lots of elbows and whatnot 😉

 

The massage-ball thing even works while sitting btw. As long as you can generate pressure. You can exert more force while standing of course but depending on how much you actually need...

Edited by Xestaro
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Recent Topics

  • Latest Comments

    • Two things may have persisted through all these years. Sylvie just has always patchworked her training approach. At the time of the the first video she's taking the train down from Fort Montgomery where we lived in a little rented house next to a National Park, to train in Manhattan. We were just piecing training together because there was no real path to where she wanted to get as a fighter, no "Point A to point B, just do all the work, listen to all the right people and you'll get there" path. 11 years on we are in the exact same place. There is no point A to point B path. She's much, much further down a path of her own invention, to be sure, tinkering steps forward up a rock wall, but everything unstable that she faced 11 years ago is still right there. She's training sometimes at her old gym, sometimes alone working on self-curation, daily in sparring at another gym, privately with Yodkhunpon, and all the intermittent training in filming legends and great krus in the Library. But, from at least my perception, nothing has changed at all in this. She is not being carried by a process, or by powerful others, and in this sense is exposed. There is no safe port. And because her process involves sharing her flaws with others - unlike every other fighter I've ever seen, where it is regular to hide your flaw and amplify your best qualities - this exposure is hard to carry. The other aspect that has persisted is that because she's a true disruptor in the sport, doing things outside of the expectations and ways of others who are invested quite differently, there is a constant social current she is swimming against. In the first video she's talking about YouTube criticism, but more this is just push back against who she is. So many have come to support her over the last decade, and lent their voices & resources to make the path possible, but still there is, and may always be a detractor audience, which in part comes from the fact that she's still doing things that nobody else does. In the second vlog she's matured into her place in the sport, taken root in herself...to some small degree, but personally the same pressures of resistance press upon her. The road is no easier at this point, than it was 11 years ago. In fact in many ways its even more difficult...but, what has changed and deepened is the richness of what she has built up inside, with 268 fights and a decade of sharing her flaws with others for over a decade. She has more substance and standing and belief in what she is doing. This is what I see.
    • The above video is from almost 11 years ago. Sylvie is up the Hudson River where we lived, taking the train down to NYC to train in a Muay Thai gym in the city, more than an hour away from the small town we made our home. This video just gives me quiet tears, hearing her sincerity in response to some pretty harsh commentary coming through YouTube. One of the things Sylvie was exposed to was, from the beginning, being an outsider to "Muay Thai" proper. She was training with a 70 year old man in his basement in New Jersey, an hour and a half's drive away. She was putting up videos of her training because there was nobody like Master K, her first instructor, online anywhere. There was pretty much nothing of "Thai" Muay Thai online. A small community of interested people grew around her channel, but also came the criticism. From the beginning there was a who-do-you-think-you-are tone from many. You can hear it in her voice. She doesn't think she is anyone. She just loves Muay Thai. She's the girl who loves Muay Thai. I cry in part because many of the themes in this video are actually still operating today. She's a huge name in the sport, but personally she is really still just the girl who loves Muay Thai, who takes the alternate path, doesn't ride with gyms, doesn't care about belts, doesn't want to fight Westernized Muay Thai. She's burned a path into Thailand's Muay Thai for many, but she's just replaced Master K - who to this day loves Muay Thai as much as anyone we've ever, ever met, with the possible exception of Dieselnoi - with legends of the sport. Karuhat, Dieselnoi, Yodkhunpon, Samson, Sagat. These are her fight family. And the same quiver is in her voice when she thinks about, actually yearns for, their muay. Wanting to be a part of it, to express it. From someone on the inside, it's just striking how little of this has changed, though like a spiral it has been every climbing higher, towards more ratified and accomplished feat, many of them feats that nobody will duplicate...simply because she's just The Girl Who Loves Muay Thai, and is taking the alternate path. She's running through the foothills of Thailand's greatness. And like then, when people in Muay Thai criticized her, today she has the same. The same unbelievers. And it's as pained today as it was on this day in the video. What's remarkable about her journey is that it necessarily has involved sharing, exposing, all of her flaws to everyone. She's likely the most documented fighter in history. We've put up video of every single fight and probably a 1,000 of hours of training. She has lived herself as exposed to everyone, as much as a fighter can be. What I'm amazed by, watching this 11 years on, is her equipoise, her balance in holding the harshness of others, and her lack of ego in all that she was doing. One of the most difficult things she's encountered in developing as a fighter, reaching for the muay of yodmuay, is actually developing an ego, a pride or dignity, which is defended not only in the ring, but also in Life. How does one get from the above, to where one needs to be as a fighter? What internal transformations have to occur? I happened upon the above video today, the same day Sylvie posted a new vlog talking about her experiences in training with some IFMA team teens at her gym. She was reflecting on how many of the lessons of growth she had not been ready for as a person years ago, especially lessons about frustration and even anger. You can hear the frustration in the video at the top. Mostly it falls behind a "I mean no harm" confession. She's just loving Muay Thai and sharing it. The impulse of those shared early videos of Master K eventually became the Muay Thai Library documentary project, likely the largest, most thorough documentation archive of a fighting art in history of the world. It's the same person doing the same thing. Even to this day, nothing of this has changed. But, what has changed is the depth of her experience, in over a decade of love for the sport, and in fighting an incredible 268 fights, and counting. Take a look at the vlog she put up today, and see what has changed. From the above has come one of the most impactful western Muay Thai fighters in history, both as a person and as a fighter. And the mountain is still being climbed:    
    • What is interesting about this is that it is one of the few steps taken at the New New Lumpinee which doesn't seem like a bend toward Western (or Internationalist) ideas and instead is broadly in support of the ecosystem which has produced Thailand kaimuay Muay Thai superiority for decades. Modernist views are against children or early youth full contact fighting, but in this case Lumpinee is lending its name to younger fighters, in hopes of developing stars and their following much earlier in their lives. No matter what one thinks of child fighting in Thailand its a fundamental part of why Thais fight like no other people in the world, just in terms of skill. Interesting to see Lumpinee leaning into something there has been pushback on.
  • The Latest From Open Topics Forum

    • Two things may have persisted through all these years. Sylvie just has always patchworked her training approach. At the time of the the first video she's taking the train down from Fort Montgomery where we lived in a little rented house next to a National Park, to train in Manhattan. We were just piecing training together because there was no real path to where she wanted to get as a fighter, no "Point A to point B, just do all the work, listen to all the right people and you'll get there" path. 11 years on we are in the exact same place. There is no point A to point B path. She's much, much further down a path of her own invention, to be sure, tinkering steps forward up a rock wall, but everything unstable that she faced 11 years ago is still right there. She's training sometimes at her old gym, sometimes alone working on self-curation, daily in sparring at another gym, privately with Yodkhunpon, and all the intermittent training in filming legends and great krus in the Library. But, from at least my perception, nothing has changed at all in this. She is not being carried by a process, or by powerful others, and in this sense is exposed. There is no safe port. And because her process involves sharing her flaws with others - unlike every other fighter I've ever seen, where it is regular to hide your flaw and amplify your best qualities - this exposure is hard to carry. The other aspect that has persisted is that because she's a true disruptor in the sport, doing things outside of the expectations and ways of others who are invested quite differently, there is a constant social current she is swimming against. In the first video she's talking about YouTube criticism, but more this is just push back against who she is. So many have come to support her over the last decade, and lent their voices & resources to make the path possible, but still there is, and may always be a detractor audience, which in part comes from the fact that she's still doing things that nobody else does. In the second vlog she's matured into her place in the sport, taken root in herself...to some small degree, but personally the same pressures of resistance press upon her. The road is no easier at this point, than it was 11 years ago. In fact in many ways its even more difficult...but, what has changed and deepened is the richness of what she has built up inside, with 268 fights and a decade of sharing her flaws with others for over a decade. She has more substance and standing and belief in what she is doing. This is what I see.
    • The above video is from almost 11 years ago. Sylvie is up the Hudson River where we lived, taking the train down to NYC to train in a Muay Thai gym in the city, more than an hour away from the small town we made our home. This video just gives me quiet tears, hearing her sincerity in response to some pretty harsh commentary coming through YouTube. One of the things Sylvie was exposed to was, from the beginning, being an outsider to "Muay Thai" proper. She was training with a 70 year old man in his basement in New Jersey, an hour and a half's drive away. She was putting up videos of her training because there was nobody like Master K, her first instructor, online anywhere. There was pretty much nothing of "Thai" Muay Thai online. A small community of interested people grew around her channel, but also came the criticism. From the beginning there was a who-do-you-think-you-are tone from many. You can hear it in her voice. She doesn't think she is anyone. She just loves Muay Thai. She's the girl who loves Muay Thai. I cry in part because many of the themes in this video are actually still operating today. She's a huge name in the sport, but personally she is really still just the girl who loves Muay Thai, who takes the alternate path, doesn't ride with gyms, doesn't care about belts, doesn't want to fight Westernized Muay Thai. She's burned a path into Thailand's Muay Thai for many, but she's just replaced Master K - who to this day loves Muay Thai as much as anyone we've ever, ever met, with the possible exception of Dieselnoi - with legends of the sport. Karuhat, Dieselnoi, Yodkhunpon, Samson, Sagat. These are her fight family. And the same quiver is in her voice when she thinks about, actually yearns for, their muay. Wanting to be a part of it, to express it. From someone on the inside, it's just striking how little of this has changed, though like a spiral it has been every climbing higher, towards more ratified and accomplished feat, many of them feats that nobody will duplicate...simply because she's just The Girl Who Loves Muay Thai, and is taking the alternate path. She's running through the foothills of Thailand's greatness. And like then, when people in Muay Thai criticized her, today she has the same. The same unbelievers. And it's as pained today as it was on this day in the video. What's remarkable about her journey is that it necessarily has involved sharing, exposing, all of her flaws to everyone. She's likely the most documented fighter in history. We've put up video of every single fight and probably a 1,000 of hours of training. She has lived herself as exposed to everyone, as much as a fighter can be. What I'm amazed by, watching this 11 years on, is her equipoise, her balance in holding the harshness of others, and her lack of ego in all that she was doing. One of the most difficult things she's encountered in developing as a fighter, reaching for the muay of yodmuay, is actually developing an ego, a pride or dignity, which is defended not only in the ring, but also in Life. How does one get from the above, to where one needs to be as a fighter? What internal transformations have to occur? I happened upon the above video today, the same day Sylvie posted a new vlog talking about her experiences in training with some IFMA team teens at her gym. She was reflecting on how many of the lessons of growth she had not been ready for as a person years ago, especially lessons about frustration and even anger. You can hear the frustration in the video at the top. Mostly it falls behind a "I mean no harm" confession. She's just loving Muay Thai and sharing it. The impulse of those shared early videos of Master K eventually became the Muay Thai Library documentary project, likely the largest, most thorough documentation archive of a fighting art in history of the world. It's the same person doing the same thing. Even to this day, nothing of this has changed. But, what has changed is the depth of her experience, in over a decade of love for the sport, and in fighting an incredible 268 fights, and counting. Take a look at the vlog she put up today, and see what has changed. From the above has come one of the most impactful western Muay Thai fighters in history, both as a person and as a fighter. And the mountain is still being climbed:    
    • What is interesting about this is that it is one of the few steps taken at the New New Lumpinee which doesn't seem like a bend toward Western (or Internationalist) ideas and instead is broadly in support of the ecosystem which has produced Thailand kaimuay Muay Thai superiority for decades. Modernist views are against children or early youth full contact fighting, but in this case Lumpinee is lending its name to younger fighters, in hopes of developing stars and their following much earlier in their lives. No matter what one thinks of child fighting in Thailand its a fundamental part of why Thais fight like no other people in the world, just in terms of skill. Interesting to see Lumpinee leaning into something there has been pushback on.
    • Last week (or so) a video went "viral" on Thai social media. It was a scrappy street fight between a young kathoey (generally used for male to female Trans, but less frequently used also for female to male) protecting herself from a local, cis male bully. Nong Ping is the young Trans woman and in the video, shot by a bystander on their phone, and she absolutely goes to town on this bully. In the end the bully is standing, panting, tired, and nose dripping from his nose. After this video got so widely shared, Nong Toom - "The Beautiful Boxer," and the most famous kathoey celebrity and former Muay Thai fighter - took Nong Ping in under her wing. Nong Toom has had the young woman staying with her and has begun training her in Muay Thai, saying she already has heart and now just has to learn the skill. Nong Toom even accompanied Nong Ping on a TV show that is more or less a platform for guests to air out their grievances and settle disputes (Sia Boat and his fighter who has been charged with throwing a fight for money appeared on the show a month or so back). Nong Ping and her bully appeared on the show with the host, and Nong Toom at the table as well to educate this bully and the public. Here are some photos of Nong Ping. The first is a screenshot from the street fight, the remainder are those posted by Nong Toom as Nong Ping is a guest in her house. Nong Toom says she believes Nong Ping will have the opportunity to have a professional fight after she's been training for a bit. (As per Thailand's laws, Nong Ping will face either a cis male or another kathoey.)   For the latest Thailand Muay Thai News Updates check out our Muay Thai Bones Newsletter
    • No worries!! There are still some peeps Who'll keep stood up for it!!
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      1.1k
    • Total Posts
      10.1k
×
×
  • Create New...