AndyMaBobs
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Posts posted by AndyMaBobs
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On 6/30/2019 at 1:36 PM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
This was the Black Belt magazine source I had in mind.
Note, the described animosity between Thai and Japanese and the Japanese desire to prove the efficacy of Karate. I assumed in reading this that "an Islamic" and "the Chinese" and "the Chinaman" were striking descriptions - I had assumed this emphasis meant that there were not Thais, or at the very least not those that Thailand would choose to defend Muay Thai's honor internationally if this was a substantive event. The author points out that these match ups came after a bit of "searching". Even if the author is only making racialist observations, because this match supposedly was a "Thailand" vs "Japan" match, it seems pretty notable that 2 of the fighters were not ethnically "Thai" (probably a pretty big deal in 1963, and read as non-Thai at least at some social level). The writer is making the distinction boldly. But perhaps they were Thai nationals. But, the article makes the assertion that these were admittedly not particularly strong Thai Muay Thai fighters.
Osamu Noguchi, if I recall, is the Japanese promoter who was reportedly run out of town (Bangkok, abandoning his kickboxing gym) after the 1982 World Championships still attempting to assert the worthiness of Japanese fighters vs Thais two decades years later. It appeared to be an enduring preoccupation.
The sense I get form the names at least is that Huafai was certainly ethnically Thai - sounds like a Thai muslim name, although we know that Charan isn't. I think either way though it looks to me that they were at the very least trained through the Thai system. I'd be interested if any footage of Charan's fight comes out, because most of the two fights from that event that we have are the muay thai fighters getting ragdolled. I figure it's the same as far as Charan goes, the lack of real defense to throws was a big problem for these guys.
The sense that I get from the article is that it tries to distance the two that lost from the one that won or at the least tries to separate them as not being truly Thai, at least on like you said a social level. It reads to me like Huafai and Charan were thrown under the bus for losing, or at least that's my reading of it. -
1 hour ago, Jeremy Stewart said:
I reckon he's the best. I watch him and I get the shivers.
I think of the fights I've been able to find of the golden age guys, he might be my favourite. I love Sagat too.
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21 hours ago, Jeremy Stewart said:
This may be the one you're talking about. With regards to Dieselnoi.
Man I love Dieselnoi. There's something about the very awkward way he switch kicks that gives me a smile. I hope I get to train with him, and hopefully not get knee'd one day!
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On 6/29/2019 at 9:19 AM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
We also have to, I would STRONGLY suggest, accept the possibility that an almost decimated art would then become cross-influenced by the dominant art of the day. It may very well be it looks like Muay Thai because in attempting to assemble the art into a style, it draws on what it sees as well. This for instance is what supposedly happened when TKD arose in Korean, but almost exclusively as a derivative of Japanese Karate. In fact, it pretty much WAS Japanese Karate. After the war it become imperative for TKD to not be Japanese at all, and so began the long path of creating a supposedly "original" Korean martial art that TKD was derived from, and they found the thinnest little trace of one (nearly extinct at the time of Karate's arrival in Korean). So, the story building began, and that art, apparently called t'aekkyon, something that a study of early TKD martial art manuals suggest isn't the case at all. t'aekkyon then itself gradually began a reconstruction, retractively, with people claiming to know and teach it. The connective tissue between it and modern TKD came to be grandfathered in. And this had strong ideological motivations. Make TKD Korean in orgiin, not Japanese. My gut feeling is that something like this is happening in some cases of fragmented SEA martial arts that claim to be older than Muay Thai (an ideological claim). These arts can be reconstructed, from the present, into the past, and give the illusion to be origins.
This actually is a problem with many of the Muay Boran claims in Thailand as well. We don't really know if any of these are actual lineages, or how much of them are reconstructions. Arjan Surat, who had a Boran teacher who is up on the wall of his gym, shook his head when talking about Muay Boran masters of today. "If he didn't know (pointing to the photo on the wall), how do they know?". That is one of the special, and indeed remarkable thing about General Tunwakom's Muay Lertrit. It is handed straight down from its creator, who himself was fusing Muay Khorat with other influences (apparently).
Definitely agree here. Taekwondo is fundamentally identical to sport karate, they've just added some extra rotations in the spins.
Ajarn Surat is definitely right. There is a similar thing involved in the absolute nonsense that is Ninjitsu, which is not a real martial art and never was. There are people who very much thing that some high profile Japanese instructors MUST have this lineage - as though being Japanese prevents the ability to lie about such a thing. I imagine the same is true of Muay Boran, we just don't know! A lot likely is reconstruction, but I can see why instructors wouldn't want to admit to it essentially being HEMA.Even in Shaolin, there is a sense that what Shaolin we are seeing from 34th generation disciples, who are passing on knowledge today is removed from what it originally was - and that is within the framework of a martial art and country that rigorously documents. Researching Boran, Bokator etc. really did open my eyes to how much Thailand, Cambodia, Myanmar etc. really is the wild west when it comes to martial arts.
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23 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
We may not be referring to the same set of early fights. Honestly, it was a year ago I read up on this. To me it's not even worth thinking about. Japanese fighting at the time was laughably (seriously, humorously) inferior. (The other day we asked Dieselnoi about the World Championship fights he fought in in 1982 in which the Japanese kickboxers (and all the other kickboxers in the world) were overwhelmed, and he just started giggling. He said, "you have to understand, it was all yodmuay. All the fights went very fast." But he really was giggling like a child. He pointed to his knee where he still has a scar from the tooth of a Korean fighter. And this is 20 years after these original bouts.) At the time we are thinking about these are very likely the best Japanese fighters in the country, or at least in the upper percentile. They are not fighting elite Thais. Putting these guys against the best fighters in Thailand at the time, in lots of fights, would have been an endless embarrassment - again, not because Japanese Karate sucks, it's because of the very deep experience in actual fights top Thais had, and the fact that Karate really was not a full contact fighting sport.
It looks like it was the same set, February 12th 1964, Huafai Lucontai (Thai) lost to Fujihara, Rawee Dechachai (Thai) beat Kurosaki, Tan Charan lost to Nakamura. Tan is the fighter I can't find much on, the closest bit of information I've found today was on a forum that said that Tan Charan was Chinese by heritage, but was born and grew up in Thailand - so presumably in the same boxing camp system.
So from best I can gather, 2 of the fighters were Thai, ethnically, but all 3 muay thai fighters were Thai by nationality and I'd be surprised if they weren't all trained through the Thai 'system' of making fighters. You're likely right that these were the best kyokushin fighters, ironically except for the karateka that lost (and in fairness most of the fight is him throwing Rawee around). It's hard to know a lot of this concretely though, how good any of these fighters were, Japanese or Thai, most of the information I've come by is people also talking about this like we are now. I've seen clips of Rawee that were not related to these fights - and from what I gather he was respected at the time, but as to what the actual scene for Muay Thai was like in the 1960s - I don't really know.
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At one point I was working on a deep dive study into South East Asian martial arts, or Indochinese kickboxing. I was looking at Muay Thai, Muay Laos, Pradal Serey, Lethwei and noticing that they are quite literally the same martial art. There are differences in scoring like Pradal Serey favouring elbows, and Lethwei allowing for headbutts, but in terms of form, this is one martial art that has been spread around a long way.
My initial hypothesis was that Bokator, the father art of Pradal Serey was likely to be the progenitor of all of these martial arts. However the more research I did, the more it pushed me to eventually scrap the article altogether. While the Japanese are very good at recording their martial arts history, South East Asia generally is not. It also didn't help that the Khmer Rogue destroyed so much of Cambodia's martial arts culture.
While Eskrima/Kali definitely isn't close enough to be considered the same martial art, General Tunwakom's style looks very much like Eskrima. I think that's partly because of the influence that martial art appears to have had on his style, but also because the two martial arts share a lot of ideas to begin with.
There's a distinct difference between Muay Thai, Lethwei, Eskrima etc. and Kung Fu/Shuai Jiao rooted martial arts like Karate, Taekwondo and Judo. The emphasis on knees and elbows, and unchambered kicks, give all of those martial arts a slower, more brawly aesthetic to them, when compared to KF/SJ rooted martial arts that have more fluidity and emphasis on iron body conditioning.
If I had to really hazard a guess, and this is a stab in the dark, I think that Muay Thai and similar martial arts probably trace their ancestory back to India. I'd be surprised if there wasn't a degree of Kung Fu influence to it, but you're absolutely right. Muay Thai has a lot of similarities to other martial arts, sentiment in Cambodia is that Thailand stole Muay Thai from them. I was speaking to a martial arts historian who's fairly well known in these circles who said to me 'Cambodia says Pradal Serey is older than Muay Thai, and it probably is, but there's no real way of knowing'.
The records are just non-existent.
If you take a look at this demonstration though, this should seem awfully familiar to people from a lot of different styles.-
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On 6/11/2019 at 12:11 PM, Snack Payback said:
There's a couple of good articles here about the early days of Muay Thai in the UK:
http://fightland.vice.com/blog/when-manchester-was-mecca-for-muay-thai
http://fightland.vice.com/blog/the-gym-above-the-restaurant-master-woody-the-other-thai-in-manchester
Those were actually the guys I was talking about in the first post. They weren't 'proper' Muay Thai - but they definitely proved that it was possible for it to do well here - and from there we got actual thai boxers and westerners who trained in Thailand coming home and bringing it here properly.
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I've met several types of people over the years. The street fighters are common, you also get the guys who have very clear mental problems training in their jogging bottoms with that weird look in their eye. One guy I met and ended up sparring with was a guy who was new to the gym. He wasn't allowed to spar because he had no gumshield, but I offered to do a few rounds with him light contact. I had a feeling about the dude because he was in baggy jogging bottoms and had thick unkempt stubble going all the way down to his neck - and he'd said he was 'watching the other guys to learn their styles'.
For some reason I thought 'lets not judge the guy by his appearance, maybe I'm wrong'. The next thing I know this dude is dancing, trying to fight-dance, has his tongue hanging out of his mouth and when I warn him, he gets annoyed about it. I slap a few kicks on him but the dude is so physically unstable - that I have to call a quit. I say to him, there is literally no way I can spar him without hurting him, because he's messing around with shit that doesn't work. He's swaying so much that if I kick this guy he'll be knocked out.He says his style has worked on the streets, and I inform him that these guys are not guys on the street. They are trained MMA fighters.
I talk to the MMA coach about it, and he said he had to warn the dude the day before. He said: 'listen, there are bigger, stronger men in this gym and at the moment they're being nice to you, if you keep acting the way you are then one of them is liable to hit you.'
Ended up seeing the same dude the next day, he asked if I'd teach him a switch kick. He was MUCH better behaved. The dude never came back after that little mini lesson I gave him on his kick. I asked our front office lady about him, and she says: 'The lift doesn't go all the way to the top floor with him' and that he'd been homeless.He was an odd dude, I had to warn him not to talk to the kids in the Jr. class - because I knew his energy would freak them out. He wasn't an arsehole by any means but definitely someone I'm glad isn't here now.
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18 minutes ago, Tim Macias said:
Thank you for your support and enthusiasm, hope I meet your expectations!
Best of luck man
just have fun - very few people get a chance to do what you get to do!
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From what google-fu I've done (I haven't dug into blackbelt or anything like that) Huafai Lukcontai was indeed a Thai and lost his fight to the Japanese fighter. I haven't found anything on the other guy yet.
So at least two of the three muay thai fighters were Thai, 1 with a win, 1 with a loss. Both fights looking pretty similar of getting thrown about the ring, the main difference being that Huafai was not able to properly adjust. -
4 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
Soooo. The kickboxing talent pool is incredibly weak, you say. But the Kyokushin talent pool is amazing. I sense, well, someone who loves Kyokushin, hahaha. No matter this isn't going to reach agreement. I personally am really interested in the heritage and changes of martial arts, but honestly listening to Karate people tug of war over who was an authentic teacher, and who was the fraud is incredible boring. You never get any of this in Muay Thai, why? Because the quality of the Muay Thai is shown in actual, high level fights, fights that become incredibly famous. In actual fighters. It would be like arguing about the greatest baseball players the history of Baseball in America, but then there was an totally different version of the sport in, let's say, Norway, where it was customary to argue about who was the best TEACHER of alter-baseball, and not actual Norwegenian alter-baseball games, actual alter-baseball players. When you say: Wow, Karuhat was as good any fighter Thailand has every produced, you never get "But who was his master? Where did he get his "fight style" from?! What school is he? All these questions really point to nonsense for me. You know where Karuhat got his fighting style when you ask him? He made it up. He made it up because he was forced as a kid to spar and play with lots of other high level fighters, and he was pushed through a beautiful and difficult regime. And he made it up because he had to beat the very best fighters who ever walked, in real fights, with lots of money on the line. Please give me a fighting art that has no "masters", as the definition of its authenticity.
Yeah there is a lot more competition in kyokushin than kickboxing, I think it's the appeal of karate to kids and parents - and because of knockdown also drawing peopel from kyokushins offshoot styles. Although I wouldn't say we need to reach agreement, because I'm not really disagreeing with you
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41 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
This is much in debate. Several sources I've read said the opposite, that Oyama was the master marketer. If you read up on Oyama's bio and claims for himself you run into some pretty spectacular marketing stories. I'm also not sure how you would assess his Karate, as he was Oyama's top-ish student by many accounts (though they had a falling out). If he wasn't teaching kyokushin I'd be very surprised. It serves people advocating for Karate's legacy to minimize his skill, but I imagine that really was not the case.
I asked my friend on this point because he knows more about it than I do. He said that Kurosaki wasn't Oyama's student, they both trained Goju Ryu together. They founded KK together. They had big differences on where they thought karate should go from there, Oyama was a big believer of knockdown rules karate, in his opinion it was more realistic to keep karate bare knuckle and restrict punching to the face - Kurosaki basically wanted kickboxing.
Kyokushin competition as itself now is huge, Holland, Japan and Brazil are the big three as far as that's concerned and those fights are brutal. Oyama himself was a lot of hype and marketing (not that he was PURELY that) but fighters that he trained definitely live up to those ideas. Those dudes can walk through anything, their conditioning is that tough.-
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15 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
I think this is a huge problem when discussing this subject. One part of that problem is I have no idea what you are referring to because Sylvie developed outside of US gym culture, and all the online history. Everything she's done is far removed, and me as well. My opinions mostly formed far from any of the talk of Muay Thai's superiority. I'd run into old AX Forum stuffy from Googling, but it's a different world for me. I don't have fighters to defend, a gym to run, students to attract. I'm only really interested in preserving and acknowledging what is special about Muay Thai, because we neck deep in it, and we personally know and are closely connected to many of the legends of the sport who are now being forgotten, not only by westerners, but by Thais themselves.
But, I understand that this kind of talk, the kind I'm putting forward, probably connects up with all sorts of western conversations about martial art vs martial art which honestly I'd run away from a million miles an hour. Thais don't talk or think like that, at least how I've seen. They don't even think about comparisons. If they saw another martial art they might think such a thing is silly, or that it's totally worth stealing because Thais love efficacy.
I think it was only in the period when Thais felt that the Japanese were stealing their art, creating their own copycat sport, and then kind of staging its superiority, that they were like: Hey, fuck off! But all the same, other Thais were very willing to fight on Japanese TV and fall down for one of Fujiwara's amazing 99 KOs too.
I think it's a good thing that Sylvie has developed away from that - because there's a lot of idiocy involved in it.
I can understand the Thai's feeling that the Japanese stole their art but it's not really true. Japanese kickboxing/kyokushin is still chambered round kicks and low kicks rooted in Okinawan karate, lots of iron body conditioning. I haven't trained in Kyokushin I'll freely admit that, but I'm quite close to that world and have a few friends who are quite deep into the history of it (although they've both moved onto other martial arts now).
There are similarities 100%, I think the use of knees definitely has influence from Muay Thai but I think Japan and any other asian culture can lead to some raw nerves, there is so much history out there between Japan and the rest of Asia. It's similar to Germany in Europe in that regard. -
14 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
You tell me who was the "master marketer"? Wow, Thai fighters would never stand a chance!
Oyama was good at marketing himself, but Kurosaki marketed much of the actual martial art itself. Oyama knew his stuff - but there was a cult of personality surrounding him that you find with most influential martial artists. Jon Bluming talks about it here:
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1 minute ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
You can drop YouTube links in any post, they automatically embed.
Copied from the above post, it didn't embed at first because it's not plain text.
Yeah, it looks more or less the same as the fight with Rawee except this guy wasn't able to get the elbows off later in the fight. He had something going with the knees but he just got thrown about for much of the fight.
These are all fight situations that I'd be more interested to see now, because both martial arts have developed more since then. -
1 minute ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
It was in my research from more than a year ago, I don't recall! One of the newspaper/magazine accounts had it. But I don't think it had their names. One, I believe was from Singapore (by memory). I'll see if I can find the source. It's the reason why the other two fights are not often talked about.
Should be up there now
The Kyokushin youtube channel has at least two of them
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4 minutes ago, AndyMaBobs said:
Who were the other two fighters? I don't know their names and its the first time I've heard that they weren't Thai - be curious to know. I've tried to find their fights in 64 before but they don't get circulated around the 'muay-thai-o-sphere' - I don't actually know if the footage is here or lost, so maybe you can help me there.
oh oh, i think i've found it!
Fight 1 on the 1964 kyokushin vs Muay thai challenge card
Akio Fujihira (later fighting kickboxing under the fightname Noboru Ozawa) vs Huafai Lukcontai.
Im pretty sure this one has already been posted in this thread -but I am honestly to lazy to go trough the whole thread to find it and check that the link is still valid.
YouTube - Kyokushin vs Muay Thai in 1964 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zpMAVcvH5Q)
Fight 2
Tadashi Nakamura vs Tan Charan.
Sadly not available online as far as I know.
The result was Win by Nakamure by 1R KO (kick)
Fight 3
Kenji Kurosaki (who was there as coach and agreed to figh in the last minute) vs Rawee Dechachai.
YouTube - Rawee vs. Kenji Kurosaki (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiKypFdtHH0)
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3 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
Not really worth mentioning - I mean you can mention it, but you would also have to mention that they "Muay Thai fighters" that they beat were not Thais, hahahaha. And, you can guess just how good those non-Thais were. Non-Thai "Muay Thai" fighters in 1963? It's amazing they could find them. It pretty much let's you know the purpose of the match. Fly all the way to Thailand, fight and win again non-Thais. Oi.
The one Thai who fought a Japanese fighter obliterated him.
This dominance was repeated in the World Championships of combat Martial Arts in Bangkok, I believe 1982. When all the Thais made quick work, sometimes VERY quick work of the Japanese fighters (and everyone else), almost 2 decades of training and fighting since these initial embarrassing losses. The only loss of a Thai to a Japanese fighter in those bouts (Headline: "Japanese kickboxing beats Muay Thai!") was due to disqualification because the Thai was judged to be clowning the Japanese fighter - not to mention that there were apparently accusations that the Japanese coalition was attempting to fix fights.
Yes I've run into his description a few times. Some people like to pass this off as if some every day unprepared "coach" was just pulled in unexpectedly. Yes, he may have fought without a lot of prep, but he was not just some coach. He probably would be the closest thing one could find as a Kyokushin Master. I've seen lineages which claim he was even a Kyokushin co-creator (10 years before, 1953) (these schools like to fight over who is the progenitor). In any case, he was about as powerful a representative of Kyokushin as one could possibly come up with, or at least an elite one. He wasn't just one of many random coaches on a team. You have a Karate Master, a man who helped create and disseminate Kyokushin, going up against a Thai the history books otherwise would have forgotten. I'm pretty sure the Thai wasn't training months for this fight either, to be honest. Sounds like a fight a Thai would take on a few days notice. Suffice to say, Kurosaki understood himself to be thoroughly and intensely beaten. His response wasn't "Gee, if I only had a fight camp!" and "I must train harder!". His response was to completely reinvent his art and create "Kickboxing" which was eventually passed to the Dutch. I suspect that he ended up thinking that it was a blessing that he fought instead of just a student of his, as he might have blamed the loss on just the skill of the student. Instead he experienced first hand the difference (and deficit) of his Kyokushin, and focused his life on making very big, in fact profound changes.
Who were the other two fighters? I don't know their names and its the first time I've heard that they weren't Thai - be curious to know. I've tried to find their fights in 64 before but they don't get circulated around the 'muay-thai-o-sphere' - I don't actually know if the footage is here or lost, so maybe you can help me there.
I wouldn't call Kurosaki an elite kyokushin guy either, his focus was mainly with marketing Kyokushin as a martial art, it was Mas Oyama who was really in the technical side of it.
On your second reply - I agree with the majority of what you're saying. I think that Muay Thai is structured more like boxing in that it's a ring sport and fully geared towards full contact competition in the ring keeps it from getting bogged down in hypotheticals like other martial arts do. That being said, I don't think that top Lumpinee and Raja champions are necessarily going to have success in kickboxing. Guys like Buakaw and Sittichai did well in K1/Glory because of their explosive styles, but you'll still see a Lumpinee Stadium champ like Aikpracha struggling with a rather old and shopworn fighters like Albert Kraus and Steve Moxon, hardly anyone's idea of elite level kickboxing.
As much as I LOVE training and coaching Muay Thai, the elitism you see in discussions about it is sometimes laughable. I can understand their perspective that in kickboxing you're not allowed to elbow or unlimited clinching - but I think that's hair splitting, Sanda guys will just suplex the top Thais on their heads and MMA fighters will tap them out or catch them with blitzes. When it comes down to it, they're all combat sports with different rulesets for different situations, I think if the best Thais in the world were able to dominate kickboxing we would see them doing it, there's certainly more financial incentive there - but we don't. I think it's not as simple as being more limited in weapons - the pace of the fights are different, the type of conditioning you need is different. I think another factor as to why the Thai's never dominated in kickboxing is also likely because the best kickboxers are floating around the 155lb mark.
I think that what also doesn't help matters is today is that kickboxing as a sport is becoming a weaker and weaker talent pool. You will occasionally get your Cedric Doumbes, Tenshin Nasukawa and Takeru but they are few and far between. It's not like what it was when you have prime Petrosyan, Buakaw, Kraus, Masato, Kyshenko, etc. It's not like Thailand which benefits from being one of the most popular sports in Thailand, if not the most. -
12 hours ago, AndyMaBobs said:
It's worth mentioning that the other two of those three fights, the kyokushin fighters beat the Muay Thai fighters. Kurosaki was actually meant to be a coach for that event, he only fought as a last minute deal because the guy who was meant to do the fight had visa trouble where the event was moved twice.
This is part of why I fund it funny when you have people, particularly on YouTube and on the few Muay Thai websites out there (in fairness, not this one) talking about how Muay Thai proved itself superior to karate. This has never really been the case - Muay Thai won 1 out of 3 of these fights in 1964 (and the guy who did lose wasn't even meant to be fighting)and showed itself as effective, so long as karateka were not using their throwing techniques. Muay Thai lost to karate, and there isn't any shame in that, Kyokushin is a fantastic, highly effective style of karate that is the backbone of kickboxing as we know it today - the rhythm of kickboxing is very much like kyokushin, which I think is probably why Thais find it so hard to adapt. Those guys were smacking each other with probably the best low kicks of any martial art, from well before they had contact with Muay Thai. I don't know if the intention was to get closer to karate's Okinawan roots, but that is certainly what happened.
There's this idea that Muay Thai is the 'best' stand up martial art, and as someone that has only ever trained Muay Thai with dedication as a stand up art - I just don't think that is true. Thai boxers don't dominate in kickboxing like Sherdog would have you believe, Europeans do, and occasionally there is a good Thai who is able to adapt his style and do well in the move set, but that is the minority - really it's only Buakaw and Sittichai. Then you have China and it's Sanda, China seems to be this abyss full of fighters, where the best fighters from all around the world go to lose VIA knockout to Chinese guys that nobody had heard of before that day.
I'd say that IMO the most well rounded immediately practical striking arts are Muay Thai and Sanda, but they've all got their strengths in different areas - I don't think any martial art has physical conditioning quite like Kyokushin does. -
I've been waiting for this! Looking forward to reading it. Feel free to delete this post if it's only meant for your updates!
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It's worth mentioning that the other two of those three fights, the kyokushin fighters beat the Muay Thai fighters. Kurosaki was actually meant to be a coach for that event, he only fought as a last minute deal because the guy who was meant to do the fight had visa trouble where the event was moved twice.
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Rambaa's move of bumping the knee in is something that I do quite a lot, it's not so much a judo thing as it is a freestyle wrestling thing - which may be where he picked it up from, that being said though, I've seen other Thai boxers do it, and when Alistair Overeem does it, it's normally considered a muay thai dump.
I've spent a decent bit of time dabbling in Sambo - which is my favourite grappling art, and very similar to Judo - and one of the first moves I was taught (incidentally also taught in catch wrestling class too) was to hoist the opponent from behind and knee bump their legs while turning them towards the floor in mid air. I knew it as a muay thai move too - but by coincidence literally this afternoon the group muay thai class was training it!
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On 6/20/2019 at 4:38 PM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
We use Vegas Pro 16 which is pretty comprehensive. They have non-pro versions which are just fine too. For me the workflow was pretty easy to learn. You just drag clips into a timeline and do stuff to them, then render it all.
Aside from a big Windows purchase I strongly, strongly recommend Kinemaster for the mobile phone << that's the android link, there is an iOS version as well. Hands down this is the best designed app of any sort I've ever encountered. Sylvie learned how to use it in 5 minutes, and it's so intuitive that she now edits short videos on it for sheer enjoyment. I think there is a free version of it, not sure. But...it would be a great training ground for any desktop version of an editing software, or at least for Vegas 16. It's the same basic interface.
I can second Vegas Pro. I use 13, and it's been good for me with a lot of things.
I'd recommend Da Vinci Resolve too, it's primarily for colour grading but it has decent enough editing tools for a free software (and in colour grading its second to none)-
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8 hours ago, Oliver said:
When the trainer says, OK sparring, find a partner. You pick the biggest, scariest looking meathead in the room, like 30kg heavier than you. 8/10 times he will be the most controlled, nicest and friendliest person there and you won't get injured.
It's the little guy with a ying yang tattoo who has problems with over-aggression in sparring.
When I first started training there was a big scary guy like that, and I jumped in sparring with him on my second week. He kicked me in the head three times consecutively but didn't hurt me once. Was a cool dude.
One time we had a guy who was pretty alright at fighting come in, and he was roughing up the newbies, and the big scary guy kicked the shit out of him for it.
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International Muay Thai scenes
in Open Topics - men and women - General Muay Thai Discussion and News
Posted
I'm in Britain, and we're pretty good at it. Not as good as France, but one of the best outside of Thailand.
The biggest domestic fight in Britain for Muay Thai was Liam Harrison vs Charlie Peters.
It was popular, but not outside the hardcore fight fans, there wasn't anyone really talking about it in the local bars. Liam Harrison is the biggest name for muay thai here and he spends a large amount of his time coaching, it's not really viable to make a living solely off of fighting in the UK.
In terms of how 'Thai' the approach is, it looks more like Muay Thai than US-Muay Thai does. A lot of teeps and off balancing. Fights are scored the same way that boxing or MMA would be, in that the fighter who looks like they're landing more will win.