[Reckless sparring before fight?]

If it hurt that much and he had a dent, he should of course go look see the doctor for a check up and a X-ray.  He could get hurt for real, even if it wasnt the purpose of this kick.    S... happens, even if you arent planning on it.

 

Unless such medical check up costs a smaller fortune, and he doesnt have the money.  But this is perhaps another story; to engage in a quite dangerous sport without having possibility to adequate medical back up.

[Gym remedies for injuries, illness and other ailments]

On 12/5/2020 at 4:48 AM, LengLeng said:

. I was told is to get the stress hormones out or something (never tried it). .....

Whereas doc told me it's stress that activates the chickenpox virus. 

 

Any idéa? 

 

 

 

Re stress and destressing devices.

To have a friendly cat  does often miracles for destressing and giving harmony.   It probably works with a loving dog too, but my personal knowledge is cats.

 

So, a cat with whom you are its Ma or Dad, and whom takes you as a such, does much to soothe  stresses.

Its very pleasant to have it laying on you and spinning.... You get to sleep deeply and get refreshed.

Also, its proven cats spinning helps to heal bone injuries.  I imagine for example, stress fractures, which are fairly common with hard training top athletes.

And if said atlethes are also beating mercilessly upon each other, there are surely even more  damages...   

 

Its very common such a friendly cat , when it notices hishers  Ma or Da is sick, ill or sad, comes, lays down with you, and does its best to comfort you...

 

A good tip is to adopt a homeless cat (or dog).  Even if the fostering may take some time and patience if the cat is shy. 

They know they were saved, and know to give gratitude.  Such a cat/ dog  may remain shy to visitors, but will be your eternal supporter and protector  In this live and from the afterlife too....   I dare to say.  This last is my personal belief, but the earlier parts its many whom had witnessed such.

[Traveling to Thailand alone]

I suspect its often even an advantage to travel in Thailand alone.  (possibly in other countries as well, but here we do talk Thailand)  Thai people seems usually friendly and helpsome, and they will of course sooner tend to help an alone foreigner, than a bunch of them talking foreing among themselves.  Having a pleasant posture, a friendly or at least, shy smile, doesnt hurt.

I have followed on Youtube travel experiences of a wannabe Muay pro.  A nice, likeable fellow, decent english but barely some few words and phrases in Thai.   Whom used free time between scheduled matches to take a several week tour from north to south, doing training at every gym he found on the way.  (and yes, it was almost always possible to train, sometimes even for free  one or two passes).

OK, some of the incidents where he got extra help meeting nice people, just because he was alone.

He goes by train. No air condition, but he is happy to find a seat near the fan.  The older Thai women sitting around him, fellow passengers, are nice to him, presenting him with foods and non alkoholic drinks as gifts... They show him the wendor selling things, but he doesnt even need to buy from the wendor.

 

He tries to hike (hich hike).  An hour passes, no luck.  He gives up, goes back, but somebody is running after him.  A driver saw him, fetches him, he gets his ride.  The drawer sees he is a foreigner, and has no water with him in this hot day.  Driver buys him coffe and a minerale water bottle...When they come to this next town, it begins to darken up.  Driver tells him it may be difficult to find hike in darkness, it will be better if he takes the bus.  He drives to the bus station, helps him with finding the bus south.  I dont remember if he also buys the ticket, but he did certainly gave lotsa of good help!   Yes, I got touched by this mans compassion with the stranger.

 

Next time, he is in an widespread tourist area.  A man on a bike stops.  He offers;  You may ride with me.  I will be your guide and interpreter during the day. You pay me just some money, my lunch and a drink to the lunch...  An excellent proposal!   The truth be said, this driver fastened in the lunch restaurang; they had good and cheap drinks there...  But our hero could lend the bike, and do his own sight seeing without problems.  So, if nothing else, a cheap way to lend a motorbike for a day, and an interesting experience...

Etc...

As our hero said, Thais are typically buddhists. Honesty and being helpsome is important for them.  In the typical tourist cities however, there are many whom had learned to live on tourists, even using their inexperience and naivity.  Occasionally even robbing.  So you must look out some in such cities and places. Dont take stupid risks.

But outside on countryside, and cities not typical tourist cities, there are hardly any such people nor real dangers... Of course, our guy being a serious Muay, never ever got drunk.  Beer was the strongest he took and some occasional drink.

[Some thoughts on the first fight]

I wonder if this running out of gas - a quite common feature,  even among experienced Thai fighters!- is caused because you tension up your belly muscles...  Lotsa hits goes into belly, so apparently you must have them tensioned up to max...  This must take its toll, no?

 

OK, is there some trick to have belly muscles tensioned up, but not drawing off energhy?   I dunno, but thinking about it, its few female Muays whom do seems to have sixpacks.   Although obviously they do have enormous belly muscles, per definition so   BUT the same women may have them when they exhibit for photo sessions on free time, but not during the fight...

An extreme example is young Jodie McCarthy.  A phantom of cardio, furious attacks all five rounds even if getting heavy beating by bigger opps.  During the fights (end Wai Kru) she has a childish big belly, but on her free time photos we see she has a grandiose well muscled belly...

 

So its my theory, its some sort of a trick, to tension up her belly muscles, but without losing any bigger energhy nor air on it...

 

 

Ps.  The changed breathing as already mentioned,  is of course also surely a part of this, so learning a proper breathing technique is too a must.

 

 

[Drilling without shin guards - do's and don'ts?]

3 hours ago, LengLeng said:

 

But recently a new trainer came to my gym. He's from Myanmar but spent a lot of time in Thailand and I watched him shadow (he's probably close to 70) and it was such a beautiful muay that came out of it. I realised he spoke Thai so we could communicate and he showed me a lot of beautiful moves and he did not want to block at all. Instead he just backed up, ducked, used head movements which looked so elegant.

So I've been trying that a lot which of course limits shin on shin impact. He also did not want me to spar hard rather learn moving the body. Nevertheless I love being able to learn pain through training. So I'll do both styles. 

Sounds awesome!   And yes why not.  If you are quick enough to effectively block the kicks with your shins and knee,, you are probably also quick enough to avoid most of these kicks if you train for  this.   

If Saenschei(?) can, so can surely many others, if the wit is quick enough, if reflexes are good enough, if the training is good enough.

Its of course good to combine with being sturdy, becuse a quick opponent may foresee your avoiding duck and will give you a blow now and then...

 

Awesome you had found such a master to follow and learn from, and him accepting you as his disciple!

[Drilling without shin guards - do's and don'ts?]

On 1/26/2020 at 4:23 PM, LengLeng said:

Hey interesting advice, thank you. Had no idea it's the heat that also adds protection, but of course it makes sense. I currently use ankle protectors on my shins for some extra padding. But once I get access to better shopping opportunities I might try these things as I've struggled a lot with shin splints in the past and they always on the verge of reappearing. 

I saw there is another idea.  The swedish 45 kg master, Camilla Danielsson (camilladanielsan on insta)  do often uses something looking as such a neopren warmers when sparring.  So I asked her, exactly why she uses these warmers, and Camilla very kindly answered:  its not neopren warmers, its compression sleeves!  She uses them not for protection, but to help out her blood circulation in the muscles, when they are extremely tired out, as its often with top athletes with theirs massive training...    (I would guess she tends to get cramps in the calves.)

I presume its an useful tip with these compression sleeves!   And unlike Camilla, Im pretty sure they too give some protection for the shins, even if its not why Camilla uses them.   

[Drilling without shin guards - do's and don'ts?]

I wonder if a good compromise could be such a warming neoprene shin-protectors.  these made by Vulcan  are the most known but there are surely other producents too... 

 

They dont compromise your balance nor speed sitting on you as your extra skin.  You get also nicely warmed if you have any tendency to shin splits or other inflammations there.   

Similiar protectors exists for almost any limb parts.  Useful if you had some contusion or local inflammation there - protects and warms up.

 

They doesn protect as well as a real shin guard, but better than nothing. 

 

It doesnt protect the feet either, unlike a well made shin guard which has a flap covering most ot the feet.  But you can use an ankle protector, either a traditional  one, as even the King himself uses at coronation ceremony,  or again, such a one of neoprene.

 

If a neoprene cover is supposed to protect your carryable computer against mishaps, it should be able to give some protection to your shins too.   

[Shin guards for taller, slimmer woman?]

On 12/3/2019 at 5:04 PM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Sylvie says that she has skinning legs and she uses Fairtex and likes them. The model she has (I think, FAIRTEX - Pro Style Double Padded Shin Guards (SP3)) does not have a stop (additional reinforcement) on the strap that you pull through, so you can make them snug. Not sure about the issue of height.

Which ones does Kero uses?     IF she uses...

[Training regime?]

You could perhaps swim?  Forceful  swimming develops cardio and muscles at least as much as running and some weights lifting. But goes easier on your body.

Its no traditional Muay extra training but as long you dont train in a Thailand gym this is no problem....

[Running in Thai gyms]

What about swimming instead of running?  I understand its usually not done in Muay in Thailand.  But it spares the body and skeleton much compared with running.  And if you swim forcefully, it trains the muscles and cardio not less than any running...

would you get OK and approval from the trainers if you presented a solid swim program?

 

Of course there must be a suitable swimming stadion or lake nearby...

[How to deal with the heat in Thailand and other first-timer questions]

I want to mention, as a good alternative to drinking water when you sweat much because of heat or hard work; the so called minerale waters.  You see on the label if it contains lotsa of different salts.

Along the same lines, the so called minerale kitchen salt, which contain less of the usual NaCl, but contains instead also K (potassium)  and Mg iones.  If unsure, you see it on the label.

You can sprinkle a little salt on anything you drink or eat.  If you salt just a little, it wont taste salty, but may even enhance the taste of the drink (and food); coffe for example may get a richer taste with a sprinkle salt.

 

Its dangerous to drink lotsa of just water without salts when its hot and or you train hard, because drinking that much water, you dilute  the salts (=electrolytes) in the body fluids...  And collapse sooner or later, not because of lack of water but because of lack of salts...  You also swell up

 

Somebody mentioned sugar in sport drinks etc... Sugar is an enemy in many diets.  True.    Although perhaps not so bad for most active sports people.

But, glucose sugar / dextrose, is usually OK, its the body´s natural fuel and the body grabs it already in the mouth.    - you see on the label what sugar its in.  If its glucose sugar, its OK, the only exceptions is perhaps if you are on a strict keto diet. If its some other sugar - you must decide.   

Its the common table sugar which is our common "enemy".   Fructose is a common alternative sweetener, as its natural.  BUT

Fructose is not good either in more than small amounts (its in fruits and honey, so these small amounts are OK, especielly as both fruits and honey are healthy by itself - especielly raw honey is good!.  But fructose used as an active sweetener  isnt healthy - it fattens you up!  The body knows well how to handle glucose sugar and use it as fuel and spare the unused leftovers as glykogene,  but it barely knows how to handle fructose in more than small amounts, so all excessive fructose goes immediately into fat...    Perhaps not a big problem for an active athlethe, but a big problem for all whom need to mind their weight...

 

Persons living on active Keto diet, will need even more of electrolytes, especially K = potassium, so the advices above arent enough - they will prob need additional potassium source (Kevin did told me).

But these minerale salt and minerale water  are a good starter even for the Keto-ists.   

 

 

[Anger Over the Bottom Rope For Women - And Race]

On 5/1/2016 at 9:32 AM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

 

This is the really compelling point about the experience. Even though Lanna was an extremely western gym, it may have been the only fully westernized gym in all of Thailand that kept a separate Men Only ring, out of a sort of cultural conservatism. Don't hold me to this, but I would not be surprised if it was the only such gym. Being at Lanna long term I think provided a unique keyhole into the sexist nature of this custom, something that just wouldn't be seen if you are training at Thai gym as a woman and the only thing you come in contact is the request that you enter under the bottom rope for fights (instead of, say, through middle ropes). What's the big deal, right? That's how it is done. But, when you see the remnants of the beliefs that underwrite this strongly conditioning daily training experiences in a gym like Lanna, something you have to deal with every single day and work hard to overcome, then the rope takes on a different weight, a different meaning. In this way, some of Kirian's rant is focused on important things - albeit in an unfortunate tone, and uninformed beliefs. No, Thai female fighters don't suck because of the bottom rope - they don't suck at all, they are VERY good - but there are built in ceilings for HOW good they can be because of the beliefs that surround the bottom rope.

Almost every day of the week Sylvie had to see western men being pulled into the Men's Ring to do what could only feel like "man stuff". This is where most sparring was done, and almost all of the clinching. Some of these men were very good, serious fighters, but it didn't matter at all. Complete nubes would find themselves in the ring getting the work that Sylvie as an incredibly active fighter was desperate to have. She needed sparring, she needed clinch. In fact, I would say that one of the reasons Sylvie began fighting so much - and there were many reasons - it was because she could NOT get the kind of live action dynamic work in in training that she needed. She, instead, fought her way to knowledge and comfort. Here she was, a fighter who was becoming a clinch fighter, and she literally could not clinch regularly in the gym to improve in clinch. Instead she just had to muscle it in fights. So you have the westerner who was on her way to becoming the most prolific western fighter in Thailand history not having access to training that others who didn't even want to fight would have, only because she was female. It wasn't because Sylvie wasn't respected in the gym, she was to a high degree, her training and fight dedication was a high standard all others were compared to. It wasn't because there was some sort of decision made about what is right for women in training, and right for men. It was just a matter how how it just lazily shook out because of how the gym was set up (in space, in practice) based on beliefs nobody was really thinking much about.

As time went by she found lots of ways to try to circumvent and partially solve this problem. She's a very non-imposing person, especially in those days, but she had to force herself to ask, or even beg for clinching/sparring, day after day, asking trainers or potential partners to leave the men's ring and come over into the mixed ring. What was regularly and frictionlessly awarded to ANY male in the gym was given to her as a kind of exception, an exception she would have to fight for. Almost any day she wanted to clinch it was a result of her having to press for it. She hates calling attention to herself in this way, but the truth of the matter was that if she didn't very little sparring or clinch would ever get done. As her husband I know this because I had to every day check with her if she was able to get any of this work in, and if she didn't, I would have to pressure her to stand up for herself. It was a current of in-oppportunity that was based on gender she had to swim against continually, and it was a huge, repeated, aggravating circle of communication that characterized the time there, and when we finally found Petchrungruang where clinch was encouraged and easily had, it was a stark and relieving contrast for us, especially because Sylvie had developed into a clinch first fighter. When she got to Petchrungruang she realized pretty quickly that she didn't even know how to clinch, despite being a "clinch fighter" and training towards clinch for 2+ years in Thailand already. This is a firm and concrete example of how institutionalized custom based on seemingly benign but still sexist beliefs, had controlled the access to knowledge and experience for women, even though that was not its purpose. And even Petchrungruang, because it too is a traditional kai muay, has its own gendered current which Sylvie swims against regularly, in order to get the training she needs and wants, despite its embrace of her as a clinch fighter.

Now, Lanna is a great place to train. An awesome gym, and an awesome group of people. I can't even say that is isn't a good place to train as a woman, in fact, it probably is a very good place to train as a woman because it has benefited from the presence of Sylvie for two and a half years, carving out a space of extremely serious work and expectations, just like Sylvie herself benefited from the very hard working Sylvie Charbonneau before her who was at Lanna for 5 years, had a 50 fight career, and who set the precedent for high volume female fighting. Examples change possibilities. It is a gym with a legacy of long term, serious female fighters for really a decade now. But people should know that the Men's Ring approach that they have is incredibly rare among western friendly gyms (not as Kirian seems to believe, generalized or common), and I would guess among Thai-first Muay Thai gyms it is no norm. But this is the thing. Here is a segregation of the actual training space, based on beliefs that are not even really strongly held by anyone actually IN the gym. The last Thai who seemed to really care about the sanctity of the Men's Ring was a trainer named Wung. He hasn't been at the gym in years. The present Thais (the last time we were there) don't seem to really care about the distinction, though they will enforce it if a female accidentally wanders too close to the Men's Ring. There is some pleasure of the Men's Ring being a "man space" especially during man-testing time (clinching), but this is something that is almost not thought about in any big way. Nobody, including all the western men there, would even think that this segregation would have any impact on female fighters. But in fact, day to day, it had a huge impact on Sylvie. This is almost by definition institutionalized sexism. Men don't even notice it, women really notice it, because it has systematic impact on the real potential of women.

Now, the number of women significantly affected by this Lanna policy have been very few. But the experience of it I think really gave a unique insight into the bottom rope issue for Sylvie, one very different than what most other western female fighters have faced. Yes, going under the rope to enter a fight is a ceremonial nuance that certainly can be done with no skin off your nose. But I would wager that in Thai spaces where you have to enter the under bottom rope for the training ring (or of having a ring that is off-limits all together), there are a set of beliefs about gender which will limit what you can achieve as a female fighter.

One of the things I'll never really forget is seeing Phetjee Jaa look around briefly to make sure that nobody (her Father) is watching, and quickly enter the family training ring through the middle ropes. It's just an unvarnished moment of a young fighter, 13 then, seeing the bottom rope prescription as superfluous, and even in a moment of adolescent independence, something to violate. Endlessly she climbs under the bottom rope in the family ring, for years now, you would think she was used to it. But she was very happy to skip through the middle ropes unscolded, with a small smile. It was not without some irony when I would listen to Sangwean, her father, rail against Thai bias against women, that fighters like his daughter would not be allowed to fight in so many contexts, all the way up to Lumpinee - the family dreamed of her fighting there as a champion one day - not even realizing that the beliefs that anchor those limits of his child are very much the same beliefs he self-enforces on his own daughter, in his own ring at home. 

Your narratio about how it was for Sylvie in Lanna, ie being de facto excluded from much of the training, although her high ambitions and tries to train clinch, is very interesting.  It is as a picture, a  witnessing in real time of what women has historically always got to deal with, say in science or other traditionally male roles.  Or say, politically interested women before the time women got full voting rights.   It may  still be so in some degree... Why, men can too get similiar difficulties - changing the traditionale roles is often difficult!  But its often a little easier for men.    

A nice piece of work and witnessing.  Very balanced and with deep insights.  With just some rewriting, it could easily pass into a paper send to an academic journal on Ethnology...  Btw, much of Sylvies and yours writings and witnessing would pass as such examples of participating observation studies in Ethnology.... / StefanZ

[Anger Over the Bottom Rope For Women - And Race]

On 5/1/2016 at 11:13 AM, WaffleNinja said:

I have a bit of anecdotal evidence that also suggests this kind of thing can be really limiting. I was on my high school's wrestling team and after a few years of wrestling the really dedicated kids got a chance to go on a trip to go to Poland and train with a Polish wrestling team. When we got there it wasn't long before it we noticed that the Polish guys were doing fine against our guys, but the Polish girls were getting crushed against our girls. After a while we found out that in Poland the men and women aren't allowed to wrestle each other, and the limitations showed in their performance.

Interesting, I had always the impression polish sport in overall, and female sports especielly, is of good standard.  With able, strong bodied, tough in mind and body, well trained girls...  Apparently with some exceptions as here.  Now, its well known a friendly mixed training girls with boys, is good for the girls. They tend to get better and stronger.  But what you probably are saying, the mixed training is no drawback for the boys?  If nothing else, it trains up their technique?! /StefanZ

[Best Recovery Advice For Full Time Training in Thailand]

Lotsa antioxidants of different types must be useful during heavy continuous training...

[Music during fights. Must have? Keep it but turn the volume down? Or not at all (heresy)?]

Re the typical "snake charmer" music, which isnt everyones cup of tea.  Esp not with the newbes. - Although you get used to it with time!  

You often hear the same newbees comment and even critisize the music, that is why I do comment.

 

OK, my point.  What is the alternative?  The risk is big, they would instead play such a loud "training friendly" music, as they often do in warming up - even sometimes in Thailand, before the matches...

Is this "music" better?   I myself dont like it, and I dont understand how you can perform optimally with such a meaningsless loud "music"...  It may be just me, but  I cant with this sort of music if I shall focus on anything more than superficial routine work.

Classical music would probably be better.   Best probably something especially composed for such purposes.

 

Anyway, as long there is no especially composed / choosed,  suitable music -  lets keep to the traditional Thai "snake charmer" music.

And if it can be done by a live orchestra, whom is deeply knowleable with the Muay culture and Muay fights, and thus, can skillfully adapt, follow and lead the matches -  yes, it may easily be the optimal - having the traditions and culture as heavy plusses...

 

[Teaching Muay Thai to the Mentally Challenged]

Re titles,  in USA its very common they call the leader "SenseiKruSir"  for prof.  ie professor.

If you have in your country some usual everyday title for a teacher, you can use this instead, if you so want.

So for example, here in Sweden male teachers in children school are called for magister.  Nowadays it have no connotations any longer its really an academic title...  Its just what you call all male teachers.  Its of course worse for female teachers - they are called for miss....  So it is nowadays a title of sorts this too...Even if once upon a time  miss and magister were a mark the male teachers hold a higher status and also a higher salary - because they were male...    Im digressing, but you see the picture:   Its formal titles but none of them bears much formal weigh.

If the teacher by any reason dont want to be called by the first name, they use this title.   But its common the swedish teachers use their first name.

 

YOU can of course use your first name if you are comfortable with it.     Its usually the best, but the risk is some few students may misuse the privilege... Just be prepared for it... 

 

Good luck!

 

[Beginner fighting in the ring in Thailand]

You ask if you can fight already as beginner or if you must be advanced.  In Thailand we often see beginners fight.  Even if Thai beginners are sometimes used for easy wins for westerners.   Nay the real question, in west beginners usually fights with paddings on belly and shins.  Taking them off - and being forced to harden up belly muscles first as advanced.   But if you are prepared it will hurt, all belly kicks shin hits, elbow hits - sure.  Go ahead.  Thais appreciate brave fighters whom fight on although hit and perhaps even bleeding. If you arent experienced but brave and humble its OK.  What you should avoid is to gracelessly turn away as soon the beating begins.  Thais wont say anything, they will splash water in the face to conceal the tears.  But it doesnt look good...  Even here you can save your face:  compose yourself. Humbly tx the opponent and his trainers. Congratulate and hug your opp...    last not least: train belly muscles...